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Nugget
19-01-2004, 11:08 AM
Do you find this easier to interpret than the brochure?

http://www.ausfish.com.au/nugget/regtable.pdf

Note - this is still a draft form and is being worked on. Will post the final version and notify when it is final.


Dave ><>

DaneCross
19-01-2004, 11:12 AM
Yeh thats good Nugget, I like it [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

jeffo
19-01-2004, 11:15 AM
looks good, and user friendly... you wonder why the DPI doesnt do something like that from the word go. they should make up lists like that and have them laminated for people to take fishing.. even if they had to sell them for $1 or something. have tackle shops stock them and push the sale of them so that people know and understand ;)

agnes_jack
19-01-2004, 11:23 AM
Way to go Nugget!
That to me is far simpler,you dont have to be a marine biologist to work out if its a coral reef fin species. Now all you have to do is convince DPI of its merits.

Well done Tony ;D ;D ;D

jimbamb
19-01-2004, 11:41 AM
Hey nugget,
Great chart!!!! thanx!!!

PinHead
19-01-2004, 01:10 PM
The only problem with DPI doing something as logical as that would be the chain of command..first someone would have to think of it..then go up the ladder with the idea to the Director General..then a series of meetings to get approval..then back down the chain to someone to actually produce it..then back up again for approval..then back down again for production...by my calculations that should take at least 18 months...by then the pollies will have changed something so away we go again...the wheels of beauracracy..aren't they marvellous

nhoj
19-01-2004, 01:40 PM
Well done Nugget. Now that it is all together I have some understanding of what it is all about. Only problem now is identifying all the individual species. When in doubt throw it back I guess.

Lucky_Phill
19-01-2004, 01:58 PM
onya Dave ! [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

Phill

Lucky_Phill
19-01-2004, 02:18 PM
Fusilier ?

Dave ?


Phill

Lucky_Phill
19-01-2004, 02:30 PM
I know you can't put all the species in there, and the chart sort of encompasses the S/E Qld, but how about Yellowtail Kingies

Phill

imported_admin
19-01-2004, 02:32 PM
Brilliant [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Nugget
19-01-2004, 02:46 PM
Fusilier ? - Phil ?
I had this discussion already today.
Fusilier are listed as a coral reef fin fish (CRFF) species so therefore they come under the regulations pertaining to CRFF.
The regulations state that there is a big limit of 5 and a min size of 25cm on all unspecified CRFF unless... -"All coral reef fin fish species have a minimum size limit of 25cm and an individual take and possession limit of 5 unless otherwise specified"
Fusilier are "otherwise specified as "no bag limit" and "no min size".
But they are still listed as a CRFF so you must remove the pectoral fin.

I'll add kingies - any other species you'd like added?
Maybe we could get Mr Ausfish to make up some stickers with the list??

Dave ><>

Lucky_Phill
19-01-2004, 02:57 PM
You are right on the money there Dave, about those Fusilier.

suppose the QFS is trying to stop the ' huge ' black market in Fusilier........... :o ::) ???

Phill

webby
19-01-2004, 04:20 PM
Forgot the old Morwong and lancer
regards

Jew_Chaser
19-01-2004, 04:58 PM
I studyied that DPI pamphlet a lot and realy couldnt feel confident going fishing knowing I wasnt breaking the rules.
Your chart has with child like simplicity made it very easy to understand.
Why the hell couldnt they make it that simple instead of all the gobbledegoop they come out with.

It saids copywrite does that mean I can't print it out an laminate it.

Jeff

jaybee
19-01-2004, 05:19 PM
top effort dave n easy to read
cheers

whiteman
20-01-2004, 06:38 AM
Nugget

Very Good. Can you post this as a .pdf in a permanent spot on this site? This way you could keep it updated and we can access it whenever we like (put a "last updated" date on the form).

I am not a solicitor but you may have to make you disclaimer a little more specific as "intention" holds sway in the courts. Make sure it prints in the footer of each page. Something along the lines of:

"The above table is developed for the information of AUSFISH web site users as a guide only to legal fish catches in Queensland. It is not intended to be used as a legal document. Contact the Qld Depertment of Primary Indistries for correct information."

Gazza
20-01-2004, 08:20 AM
Now that is what can be done ,by applying commonsense......
[smiley=2thumbsup.gif] [smiley=2thumbsup.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Nugget ,that cost $XX thousands of dollars to print a partial but pretty 'nearly' accurate brochure #:-X >:( :-X , before Xmas.

you have done simplistic fishing ,a great example of commonsense

I would (or you can) like to place that link down south for any and ALL tourists to read , to simply understand fishing up here, e.g. particularly MJ's, Flatties and possibly Jennies.

A 'living document' mate ,deadset commonsense brilliant #[smiley=2thumbsup.gif] [smiley=scholar.gif]

All thumbs today #;)
Regards
Gazza

bugman
20-01-2004, 10:03 AM
Amazing how in three casts I could catch a red throat, grass and yellow sweetlip and treat all of then differently.

Bloddy ridiculous isn't it.

Dave noticed there was two entries for Grass Sweetlip - just and oversight?

Nice work.

Brett

Nugget
20-01-2004, 11:12 AM
Thanks for all the comments - very much appreciated.
I should have also given credit to Gary Fooks who helped me with research and checking.

Thanks Whiteman - I will add a more detailed disclaimer.

The file will be downloadable from my web site as a PDF by this afternoon - I'm working on it.

If anyone has any other species they'd like to see added - please email me - thanks Webby for your comments.
A large part of the problem is local names of fish - for example a blackall is also a slate bream, painted sweetlip - just to name a few.


Bret - I left a few doubled up under both names - grassies are under sweetlip as well as grass sweetlip - just in case people only looked up grassies and not sweetlip.
Can remove or leave it - I'm not sure which is best.
Dave ><>

krazyfisher
20-01-2004, 11:38 AM
maybe the scienctific names would be good but a great thing all the same

Nugget
20-01-2004, 12:23 PM
Yes I've been thinking about adding scientific names - it's a work in progress at the moment - looking for feedback and ideas just like that.

Most people have no idea what the scientific name for a species is but it would be handy for those unsure of common names to look up in Grants and compare scientific names to remove any doubt.
Thanks.

Dave ><>

Gazza
20-01-2004, 01:15 PM
Dave ,scientific/Latin? names are certainly accurate ,IF you can certainly identify them ???

Latin names (if you are a good spella) are also very,very similar ,but as a extra column ,won't do harm ,but could add a level of easily confused and misspolt names.....

Regards
Gazza

webby
20-01-2004, 03:17 PM
Dave, While your in such a inventive mood, why not invent a non shrink stick on fish measurer for boats.
As i've heard that Fisheries/Dpi have stop making their stick on fish measurers, due to shrinkage and they could nap you for undersize fish if they happen to be just legal and your stickers has shrunk ;D
As for latin names of fish it could be very confusing, as there are still a few species out there that still have multiple latin names.
regards.

Brooksy
20-01-2004, 05:45 PM
Dave
You have done a great job with the table, but you have missed moses perch. I was told that this species is included as a CRFF and is included in the mgt plan but was ommitted from the brochure. I think this species is included as a hussar as it is not listed seperately.
QFMA produced a similar table as a sticker a few years ago but no one within that section at QFS have seem interested to repeat it. If someone is interested in doing these as stickers I would definitely be in the market for a couple.

Cheers Brooksy

Nugget
21-01-2004, 03:32 AM
Hi Brooksy
Just to clear things up - A Moses perch and a hussar are two different species and have different bag limits.
Hussar are "unless otherwise specified" as a bag of 10, Moses perch are not "unless otherwise specified" so they come under the 25cm min and 5 bag limit that applies to all unspecified CRFF.

The chart is a work in progress - today I'll add the scientific names and more species which should see it complete.
I'll then see if I can get it to a 2 (small) page document that you can download and print and put back to back and laminate.

Hang in there - it's getting there.

Dave ><>

virgy
21-01-2004, 05:04 AM
great chart :) what more can i say

whiteman
21-01-2004, 11:58 AM
Nugget

Give us a yell when it's on your site. I'll put a link on our site. Would you believe our little club tucked away between Cairns and Townsville signed its 100th member this week? We have a meeting on the weekend and I'm sure one or two of these keen anglers will offer constructive advice!

agnes_jack
22-01-2004, 04:07 AM
Brooksy
Most tackle shops will be getting size stickers printed up at the moment. If you cant find any give me a pm and I should be able to send some up to you shortly.

Regards Tony :D

damons33
22-01-2004, 11:39 AM
fuseliers look like a sweep except they are neon blue with a yellow tail. in southern waters they are called "rays bream" and they are pretty ordinary eating but make good ambo bait live. i other words they are rubbish fish! damon

Barrymundi
22-01-2004, 11:53 AM
Great Chart,

Thanks for putting the effort into that.

I have a mate in DPI I will send the link to.

Nugget
22-01-2004, 12:33 PM
The original link in the first post in this string has been continually up dated.
It has had many changes and up dates based on new information and suggestions from members on this chatboard.
(last update - 2pm today, Jan 21).
You can also download the .PDF or a MS Word version from my web site
http://www.ausfish.com.au/nugget/regtable.pdf
http://www.ausfish.com.au/nugget/regtable.doc

While it may look like a simple document - it has taken hours and hours by Gary Fooks and myself to get it to this stage.
Varying common names and varying Latin (scientific) names have been a major headache.
Another major problem is finding someone in authority that can answer the questions we are posing - I am yet to find someone that can positively (with authority) clarify some irregularities in the ACT and the summary brochure.

It is getting to a stage where it might end up a small booklet (like the tide book) with colour photos, a species per page with a larger list of common (colloquial) names etc etc.

If you do see something in the species table that you don't think is right or is confusing - PLEASE email or PM me the details.

Dave ><>

Lucky_Phill
22-01-2004, 12:46 PM
There is one species, Dave , I see isn't there !

the #Ausfish M & G, Wobbley Boot, Green Death, Honda Yabbie !

Scientific name :- #Meetus Greetus Pisstus

Ahh well Dave, can't fit them all in

Cheers #Phill ;)

bobp
22-01-2004, 04:21 PM
Great work nugget.

A booket with colour photo's is a good idea . :)
i have herd that a number of years a go a you could buy series of credit card sized plastic colour palets with a picture along with size and bag limits that would fit nicely in to your tackle box.This mite not be the go now days as this goverment will change the rules again in 6 months if not sooner . ???

cheers bob

thargor
22-01-2004, 04:33 PM
May I suggest a note about charter and extended fishing trip and changes in bag limits.

Also a column about what can be filleted and what cannot be filleted (CRFF vs no reef fish).

cHiCo
22-01-2004, 06:44 PM
Great Chart. got my old man to laminate for me so i can roll it up and chuck it in the tackle box. Great idea.
Cheers

whiteman
23-01-2004, 06:46 AM
Nugget

I've added the link to the .pdf version to our site. We get about 15,000 hits a month so I'm sure it will get some attention. I'll also print copies to hand out to our members on Sunday for their feedback. And I'll leave copies at the shop at Fishermans Landing where a heap of visitors take off to the Palm Islands, etc.

(I've even (finally!) added a link to Ausfish!)

Thanks for all your work. You and Gary have taken the mystery out of the new regulations and a few more fish may survive the slaughter because of it.

Brissyguy
24-01-2004, 11:06 AM
Well done Nugget [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

krazyfisher
24-01-2004, 02:59 PM
I may have missed it but are spotted mackeral on there at 60cm and is it 5 bag?

smerl
24-01-2004, 06:45 PM
Nugget,

I think the booklet with the photos is a great idea. I reckon I could find at leat 20 customers for you!

May be worth contacting the DPI to see if they will donate some of their hard earned tax payers money to help with the up front costs.

Cheers,

Simon

Nugget
25-01-2004, 04:19 AM
I may have missed it but are spotted mackeral on there at 60cm and is it 5 bag?

Yes - I've changed the layout so that all the mackerel are on the one page - spotties dropped off to the second page which is probably why you missed it.

Dave ><>

krazyfisher
25-01-2004, 08:46 AM
yep found it :-[

NQCairns
25-01-2004, 01:38 PM
Thankyou very much guys [smiley=angel.gif] esp after being hung out to dry by fisheries.
I felt quite humble downloading such an important doc much appreciate your time and grand effort toward us fisherman [smiley=laola.gif]. cheers nq

striker
25-01-2004, 03:10 PM
Top work Dave, cheers Craig.

Brett_Hoskin
26-01-2004, 04:52 AM
Listen guys ..You only need the rule book if you catch small fish. If you only catch big fish you dont need to worry. ;D ;D

The only other alternative is to have someone put a hex on you (as has happened to me) and Catch no bloody fish!!! ??? ??? ???

BeachBait
26-01-2004, 12:39 PM
So if I catch a BIG Flathead I don't need to worry? ;D ;D ;D

Has to be one smart arse in a group lol ;D

BeachBait (the smart arse)

robo02
27-01-2004, 04:24 AM
hi dave im rob and new at this .
Im having trouble opening up regulations and spicies chart
If any one could help it would be greatful thank you :-/

nonibbles
27-01-2004, 05:55 AM
You need to get Microsoft Office/Word, or, acrobat reader which can be found here:
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html

whiteman
28-01-2004, 09:39 AM
Nugget

The chart went down a treat at our monthly meeting. Everyone really appreciates your efforts. The only question so far (aside from the Mackerel one addressed above) concerns Black Jewfish. These things are caught in our area (so I'm told) and they are supposed to have a minimum AND a maximum size. Can you include in your chart?

Barrymundi
29-01-2004, 02:27 AM
Dave,
Jewfish, Silver45 min
Jewfish, Spotted/black (East coast) 45 min
Jewfish, Spotted/black (Gulf of Carpentaria) 60 min, 120 max. 5 with no more than 2 over 100cm

NQCairns
29-01-2004, 04:08 AM
Found a small typo Cobia species should be canadum, cheers

dnej
29-01-2004, 08:23 AM
Gidday Dave,
Many thanks for the effort. Great stuff. Could you confirm that Snapper are not included in the 20 as they have their own bag limit of 5. Does this mean technically they are not reef fish
David

gif
29-01-2004, 08:40 AM
David
Nugget seems to be away at the moment: he says fishing, others say abducted by aliens, personally I think he finally decided to mow that grass - and may yet re-appear.

You will see in Dave's table, on the right, a column that some have a * This denotes the Coral Reef Fin Fish one of the 94 or so. Snapper has no "*".

better yet I have reposted below Dave's own summary which may help until he is found again.

The new regulations
EXPLAINED


REEF FISH REGULATIONS:

The new regulations relate to CORAL REEF FIN FISH as listed in the ACT (page 94).
The new regulations DO NOT include snapper, pearl perch, traglin, grass sweetlip, pelagic species, estuary species.
They DO include cod, wrasse, emerors, jobfish, trout, hussar, nannygai, stripey and fusilier.

NEW REGULATIONS (Coral Reef Fin Fish ONLY)

Anglers can only keep a TOTAL of 20 species listed as Coral Reef Fin Fish per person.

Anglers must CUT OFF a pectoral (side or arm) fin off every Coral Reef Fin Fish they keep.


If there is NO minimum size listed for a species - the min size is 25cm.
(IE: fusilier have no min size so their min size is 25cm)


If there is NO bag limit specified on a species - the bag limit is 5
Visit the DPI Fishweb site for all the details - www.dpi.qld.gov.au/fishweb

Gazza
29-01-2004, 10:17 AM
Gaz, you 'n Nugget [smiley=oops.gif] [smiley=stupid.gif] are to be congratulated #[smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif] #;D ;D

ALL I ask ,is that joe-dikhead , who (honestly IMO) wouldn't have a clue i.e. enmasse ,o.k.

...of the suttle #differences ,lengths and bags ,that have rapidly been applied across the board ,for "better or for worse" ,in many,many different areas , are ONLY 'warned' ,noted,recorded and moved on .......IF borderline ,only ,not a rape as such.

TOURISTS #??? ??? ??? #::) ::) ::) , IF they kept 6 flatties AND a 72.36cms flatty , a total of 8 ? #;D

What fine do they get? #,and where do i buy the confiscated gear ? #:-X

p.s. reflecting on real situation(s) rather than who has got the BIGGEST or most CORRECT wogname!! # ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :-X ;D ;D

I LUV my pizza #:D , and simple, no-frills fishing , deliver that, and the fishery is in good hands #,err, always ----> W-A-S <----




BTW: Henry ,do hope you keep your portfolio , and trust you concentrate on giving responsible RecFishos , a reasonably chance t go fishing ;) ,besides tourism [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

Nugget
30-01-2004, 01:22 AM
Yes been fishing - only getting back to this Tv set once evey few days.

NQCairns - going to dissagree with you on that one.
I' pretty sure canadus is the plural, canadum is the singular.
Grants Guide to Fishes and the DPI web site use canadus.


Gary is right (again - this is getting to be a habit Gary) on snapper.
They have a bag limit of 5 and a min size of 35cm.
You do not have to cut a fin off and they are not included in your 20 bag limit of coral reef fin fish.

I left black jew out as we don't catch them down here.
The next evolution of this table is in the pipeline - it will be a lot more comprehensive...stay tuned.

Dave ><>

nonibbles
30-01-2004, 06:22 AM
Keep it up Dave, much appreciated

NQCairns
31-01-2004, 04:12 AM
Cheers Nugget, when I studied scientific nomenclature I cannot recal any distinction between plural etc but it was a long time ago, and most of the learning has leaked out, my reference material is not to the standard of Grants :-[. Cheers nq

jaybee
31-01-2004, 04:45 PM
Nugget you have done well on this chart and I applaud you however cobia is
Taxonomy
The cobia was originally described as Gasterosteus canadus by Linnaeus in 1766. It was later changed to Rachycentron candum (Linnaeus, 1766). Synonyms for the cobia include Apolectus niger Bloch 1793, Scomber niger Bloch 1793, Naucrates niger Bloch 1793, Elacate nigra Bloch 1793, Centronotus gardenii Lacepede 1801, Centronotus spinosus Mitchill 1815, Rachycentron typus Kaup 1826, Elacate motta Cuvier and Valenciennes 1829, Elacate atlantica Cuvier and Valenciennes 1832, Elacate bivittata Cuvier and Valenciennes 1832, Elacate malabarica Cuvier and Valenciennes 1832, Elacate pondiceriana Cuvier and Valenciennes 1832, Meloderma nigerrima Swainson 1839, Naucrates niger Swainson 1839, Elacate falcipinnis Gosse 1851, Thynnus canadensis Gronow 1854, Elacate nigra Gunther 1860, Rachycentron canadus Jordan and Evermann 1896, and Rachycentron pondicerrianum Jordan 1905.

Common Names
English language common names are cobia, black kingfish, black salmon, cabio, crabeater, cubby yew, kingfish, lemonfish, ling, prodigal son, runner, sergeant fish, and sergeantfish. Other names include aruan tasek (Malay), bacalao (Spanish), bacalhau (Portuguese), balisukan (Bikol), bonita (Susu), bonito (Spanish), cobie (Spanish), cuddul-verari (Sinhalese), dalag-dagat (Tagalog), foguesteiro-galego (Portuguese), gabus laut (Malay), gile (Tagalog), goada (Arabic), itang (Bikol), jaman (Malay), kadal-viral (Tamil), kobia (Afrikaans), kume (Visayan), kumi nu'aakhr (Arabic), langlanga (Maranao), mafou (French), mondoh (Javanese), mudhila (Sinhalese), ndjika (Portuguese), offiziersfisch (German), okakala (Finnish), pandauan (Bikol), pandawan (Cebuano), peixe-sargento (Portuguese), peje palo (Spanish), pejepalo (Spanish), rachica (Polish), sakalan itang (Bikol), seekel (Arabic), segel (Arabic), seheeha (Arabic), sikel (Arabic), sikin (Arabic), sungoro (Swahili), sugi (Japanese), takho (Somali), and tayad (Visayan).

As you say this is not to be a legal document copyright 2004 - Dave Downie
cheers
Joe

COBIA
Order - Perciformes
Family - Rachycentridae
Genus - Rachycentron
Species - canadum

Nugget
01-02-2004, 04:19 AM
A play on words.
The old saying is the bigger your hat the more property you own - answer = bream (brim).

Dave ><>

PAUL_SIMPSON
06-02-2004, 03:18 AM
great job so far nugget,pinhead made mention of 18months of discussion but what about the $1-1.5million wasted on the discussions