HAD A GUT FULL

[boomer]

I went on a recent trip to a northern Beach :-X with my brother and a work mate. We settled into a nice gutter about 15 km north of the track onto the beach, probably the best one on the whole beach as we treavelled all the way up to the point before deciding on this one. Anyway, we pulled a few worms before nightfall and got onto some nice whiting say 35-40cm, some good 7 spot dart and a couple of lizards.Changing to our tailor gear a few beers later we started to get onto a few good fish about 2kg plus, one hit the scales at close to 4kg. Also some quality bream & tarwhine made up for a good catch for the night.Anyway to the point of what we've had a gutfull of. Through the grapevine that night (and I don't know how)
we were horrified to learn our good mates the net fisherman learn't of our catch & went to the same exact spot and completely decimated the fish population in the gutter. Here's a rough list of what they caught.

1/4 ton of tailor, 5 of which were over 5.5kg.
70 bream over 2kg not to mention the ones under 2kg.
2 fish bins of large whiting.
Many dart, don't know how many, and god knows what else was dragged of the bottom.

It's not the fact that we hate the pros, they have to make a living too, but at this rate it's obvious that something has to be done.What about a government buyback scheme funded through a fishing licene for amatuer fisherman in Queensland. I don't know about everyone else but in years to come I would like to take my kids fishing for something other than toadfish.
Thank you for your concern. :-X

[basserman]

that sound disgusting boomer
those pros sound like the ones that give them all the bad name
i'm in no way linked to pros or agree with them alot but there are some really good pros out there that are looking after the fish and know that they can not do what those pro did there after all if they want to be pros longer than 50 years time they need to look after the breeders
on thing i belive most fish should have are upper and lower limits (slot sizers)
and our beach running freinds a closed net/fishing season

but i know a few of the blokes & gal on here now and it is a releaf to see many have there own bag/size limits and fish for the fun
the reson i type this is that almost every day i and i know others see the same rec fishermen come home with a fish box full to be cleaned at the cleaning table now fair enoght if it was a once or twice thing a year but there are a few and they know who they are that do this almost everyday just to plam the fish off to friends and have a freezer full for the relos!

now that is what makes me sick!
sooner we have everyone looking out for the fish first and the freezer/pocket second the fishing will then be back to utopia

[Lucky_Phill]

That situation is BS. #It has to stop.

All netting is outdated and antiquated. #( is that a word ? ).

A netter did that sort of thing to a high profile person in DPI ( or higher ) and that's why the netters are now banned from Straddie ( well, some beaches ).

This sort of inncidence #should be reported to :-

Henry Palaszczuk
E-mail Address(es):
#DPI@ministerial.qld.gov.au
Business Information:
#Phone: 32393000
Notes:
Minister for Fisheries

Better still, copy and paste your report to him.

Cheers # Phill

[Big_Kev]

I have had pro fishers pull up beside me on the beach, and net the gutter I was fishing right before my eye's >:( >:( >:(.
Couldn't get over the hide of these guys. :-/ :-/ :-/

[straddie]

Hehehe funny stuff ;D

Don't you guys know the pro's have webcams set up every 100m along the beach just watching you guys pull them in. Some of the really hitech ones have infrared for you sneaky buggers that try to hide from them by fishing at night.

[straddie]

I better not leave it that some people might believe it ;D sorry I'm in one of those moods.

Boomer a lot of pros will hit the beach at daylight, the fish might be sitting wide so they will move on and come back later to see if they have come in closer. That or they might run past a gutter see the fish sitting there and shoot the net there and then. Usually you will find the pros might have been watching the school for a day or two maybe waiting for a couple of smaller schools to join up or a bigger school to come in closer or move into an easier gutter. Unfortunately when they shoot a net the fish that don't get caught scatter and get very shy.

It would be a desperate pro that shot a gutter just because a few amateurs pulled 20 or 30 fish from it the night before.

I don't like them shooting where I have been fishing either but it happens, just move to the next gutter and think to yourself that at least those poor bastards that don't fish will at least be getting a fresh feed.

The only complaint I have from that shot you are talking about is the dart will probably end in cat food.

[redfoot]

so none of you have never had a feed of fish & chips or a prawn platter at your local ?

[Jeremy]

Boomer,

exactly when and where did this happen?

Jeremy

[basserman]

redfoot we aren't saying all pro fishing has to be stoped just monited more and inspected a hell of a lot more
the ones that stick to the quoter system are fine but alot of fish gets sold on the blackmarcket still and thats what we are all worried about
i still wonder why mullet is netted off the beaches each year when most of it ends up as cat food
but when they do run the nets alot is getting caught and you never see them through the undersize ones or bycatch back in!

[Lucky_Phill]

I have had contact with people in the know, and these practices are coming under review in the early part of this year.

Let's hope the appropriate measures don't take too long to impliment.

Cheers Phill

[redfoot]

pros sell fish on the black?
why would they do that?
im not trying to be a smartarse but i hear pros getting bagged all the time then the same people turn around and buy a feed of seafood or a bag of pilchards

[redfoot]

ps but maybe sams seafood needed these fih to teach housewives how to fillet-then threw them out

[basserman]

as i said in my first post on this thread
there are alot of good pros that look after the fish
just like us rec fisherman it is the minority that let us down

[redfoot]

so why were these pros "the minority"?
what exactly did they do wrong?

[basserman]

the ones selling on the blackmarket and overfishing their quoters
those pros
the pros that sell there fish soo cheap what chance has anyother pro got to make money!

[redfoot]

so these netters sell on the black?
call dpi fishwatch 132523

[basserman]

sorry i din't mean those exact netter i was genralising saying the minority of both pro and rec fisherpersons sell on the black or do the wrong thing ether not watching there bag limit or undersize fish or just genrally overfishing! [smiley=bomb.gif]

[redfoot]

you should of recorded these netters license number(the black figures on the yellow background)and reported them to fisheries

[Gazza]

Yep .sounds like "good advice" with your net dilemma ::)

[Big_Kev]

don't like them shooting where I have been fishing either but it happens, just move to the next gutter and think to yourself that at least those poor bastards that don't fish will at least be getting a fresh feed.

Straddie I would say Fxxk the poor bastards and there fresh feed, I am trying to get a feed for myself.
Purhaps it is the pro that should have moved to the next gutter, I would think that I have just as much right to fish the beach as the pro has.
I should have just walked up to the net and taken a few and then gone to the next gutter.
Cheers Kev.

[redfoot]

taken a few from the net?

[straddie]

Real Hard your logic escapes me,
You say you have as much right to fish the beach as the pro, which I agree with, but then you say they should have moved to the next gutter? Why? because you had your line in the water first? Then you go on to say you should have taken fish from the net? I wouldn't recommend theft.

"Straddie I would say Fxxk the poor bastards and there fresh feed, I am trying to get a feed for myself."

And by this I assume your feed of fish should have priority over every one elses?

[MICHAELG]

I hav been reading this, and i thought I would put a different slant on it.
i speak from expeirence on this actually happened.
Fraser Is same deal myself & 3 friends fishing gutter. Along comes pro's. No regard for our safety at all when the go into action, cars & boat launching. we keep fishing told to F### off out of the way.(1st mistake). Now you have to remember this is now classified as a workplace. no safety measures at all. Time comes for pulling nets in, cars into action again, By this time crowd has gathered, no Pro staff are controling workarea(keeping people at a safe distance)(2nd mistake).
On the 2nd last car pull, rope snap, pro work hit nasty gash to calf(3rd mistake).
I reported this to Workcover, about total lack of safety procedures in places. the lady I spoke to informed me they should have in place a plan which should be followed. I laughed at that, when is a inspector ever going to check.
So forget about feeding some stinking cat, worry more about your personal safety. If you happend to be injured thru their lack of safety procedure, I'd say you could become very rich
Michael

[straddie]

Heya Michael, I am not certain but I think the law states you are not to obstruct or impede a professional fishing operation? Could be wrong, if someone could correct me it would be appreciated.

Don't think I have met a pro yet with great social skills ;D I am sure when they told you to "F### off out of the way" they meant it in the nicest way :D

I wouldn't count on becoming rich from sueing a pro.

I had never considered the workplace H&S regs but yes they should be required to operate in a responsible manner as the rest of us do.

I guess blocking off the beach in the same manner a building site, would be the safest thing to do because I have to agree it is very dangerous operation. Some of those nice orange barriers running from the dunes down to the water so no one can accidently wander into the work area would probably do the job adequately.

If you made an official complaint, I believe Workcover has to investigate the matter, otherwise they would then become partially responsible for any injury relating to the matter you reported to them. If you believe it wasn't investigated, you should follow it up and report it to someone higher up in work cover.

[Big_Kev]

Straddie I find it hard to comprehend your comment that my logic escapes you.

You have agreed with me that I have the right to fish the beach as much as the pro.

I said that the pro should have moved to the next gutter because you have previously stated that we should move on to the next gutter.

Why?

And because I had my line in the water first and got there when no one else was around.
YES

If I am on the beach having a fish and trying to get a feed/relaxing and then a pro comes along, decides he wants to net where I am fishing, and for me its get out of the way or get run down.

So what if I think that I should not be bullied out of the way.

Maybe you are a pro or maybe not or know a pro fisher and they do not operate in this practice, but I can tell you from my experience some do.

I am glad that you do not recomend theft as neither do I but I did feel like doing it, after I was so rudely pushed out of the way, and the feed for everyone else who does not fish gained precedent over my own.

Quote
"And by this I assume your feed of fish should have priority over every one elses?"
Please do not make assumptions about myself.
Cheers Kev.

[basserman]

one question to you all
Do you go up to some one fishing and fish right over the top of them?
if we don't then surely the pros could atleast give us a bit of personal space
in the ABT comp it is a rule that no boats are allowed closer than 30m of each other when fishing!
comon curtious has to applie ???

[straddie]

Basserman your question is an easy one best experienced rather than answered, sit out in morten bay and start pulling in spotty mackeral or wander up to Fraser and start pulling in tailor and see if people try fishing over the top of you. ;D You will quickly find common courtesy isn't very common.

[straddie]

I am not a pro Kev, I did help them out when I was a young fella on straddie though, so I have a pretty good knowledge of how they operate. Nor am I pro pro fisherman and have had some blues with them over some of the things they do at times.
In the same way I have had blues with shamateurs turning up at the pub every few days with 10 kg of whiting fillets or prawns to flog off, and the club fishermen that used to bring in upto 100 tailor for the weigh in then take them back to the beach and bury them, and the guy that just bought a third esky to take to fraser because he decided he could do better than the two eskies full of fillets that he got last time, and the guy that throws those annoying undersized tailor up the beach because the bastards keep stealing his exy pillies.

The majority of pro's and amateurs are decent, and at least try to do the right thing. Some don't even try though.

Fish usually move into an area for a short time, when the window is there they shoot them or risk losing them. Now think about it, there are maybe 4 to 8 guys in a crew who are depending on getting these fish because this is their job, the job they do to get the money to put food on the table for their families, not just getting a feed of fish to make a change from fillet steak but to pay the bills.

If you were in that situation would you just sit back and say to your crew, as soon as this guy has finished relaxing, caught himself a feed and moves off we will put the nets out?.

[Big_Kev]

Straddie when I was a young fella growing up on Straddie I saw much of the same thing that you refer to.
Much of which does still go on unfortunately.

I can understand the plight of the pros, but it doesn't mean that I have to agree with the way they go about their bussiness.

With the increase in rec fishing the occurrence of netters having to push recs out is only to become all the more common.
Who knows what will happen from here?
Cheers Kev.

[dazza]

hi all,
i recon gibbo is on the right track here.
let the cowboy's do their shots around you- ring workcover and complain. after a while the govt and local councils will get worried about compensation payouts to people injured on beaches under their control. (read in the local rag a month or two ago a workcover officer gave the police a hard time because they set up a radar (now an official workplace) and had no saftey plan- told them to move on, and the police could do nothing about it) can't see what the difference is with a pro running a net around a few beach fisho's- ie workplace without a saftey plan.
even better, let them barracaide off the beach- lets see the uproar when they do that.

simmilar thing to the jet ski's
when i see these wankers roaring around annoying people i think- bewdy. keep going guy's annoy the shit out of everyone- eventually they will cut their own throat and have restrictions applied, banned from certain waterways.

chers
dazza

[Gorilla_in_Manila]

Hi all,
Interesting post.
Straddie mentioned before, that there may be some provision under law that you are not allowed to interfere with a pro fisher doing his stuff. This togther with the "common courtesy" comments had got me wondering about ownership or rights to a school of fish sitting in the ocean.
I was thinking that since rec fishos pay a rec licence fee in NSW, and since fisheries have used some of those fees to buy pro fishing licences, could a rec fisho claim that he/she now in fact has a shareholding in a pro fishing licence? Would he/she not then have the same rights under the law as the "pro" and if he/she was fishing a gutter first, then be perfectly within their rights to tell the pro who shows up after, to piss off to the next gutter. ???
I'm fully aware that you would have to be willing to die for the cause, ;D but in theory at least?
Or for example, if every Ausfish member put in $100 and the $400,000 or so was enough to buy out a licence, could one member who is fishing a gutter already, then tell the pro who shows up that he is already conducting a professional fishing operation (albeit a very inefficient one ;)), and that he has established a work place, etc and that they by law need to bugger off somehwere else?
Just a thought.
Cheers,
jeff

[peterbo3]

Section 90(1) Fishing Regulations

A person must not obstruct a fisher, or someone else acting under an authority, who is using a net to take fish, unless the person has a reasonable excuse

Max Penalty - 100 Penalty Units

So what is a reasonable excuse? If you were there first, maybe? Up to the Magistrate. But regardless of the Fishing Regs, no fisher is allowed to forcibly remove you or injure you to enable them to shoot away. That is assault. >:( >:( >:(

Anyway Kev, when you are 6'8" tall you have got em by the balls. ;D ;D ;D

[Gazza]

;D ;D ;D

$400,000 :o :o , Steve would be on his way to Sth.America in a flash!! :-X ;D

[Brett_Finger]

;D ;D ;D

$400,000 #:o :o , Steve would be on his way to Sth.America in a flash!! #:-X ;D

;D
hope he takes me - fitz and Nugget with him... ::)
hookin,TBF ;D

[Gazza]

BF ;D , so do we!!!!

May not be much stock left in his shop when you get back ;D

[basserman]

Basserman your question is an easy one best experienced rather than answered, sit out in morten bay and start pulling in spotty mackeral or wander up to Fraser and start pulling in tailor and see if people try fishing over the top of you. #;D You will quickly find common courtesy isn't very common.
then i'm glad i live in peacful quite port macquarie
if you see a boat with in 100 meters or another person on the beach thats too close here ;D


simmilar thing to the jet ski's
when i see these wankers roaring around annoying people i think- bewdy. keep going guy's annoy the shit out of everyone- eventually they will cut their own throat and have restrictions applied, banned from certain waterways.



already has happend in NSW (the place of the good news :-X)

jet skis are alread banned from all sydneys waterways (upsets bob carr too much) from broken bay to port hacking and in between (broken bay=hawksberry, sydney harbour, bontney bay, port hacking) and all rivers there of
so if they do keep it up or too many people do get hurt it wouldn't be too much for QLD goverment to ban them from set waterways

[straddie]

basserman I avoid the crowds too where possible, you could probably add the pumping jetty at the seaway to your list of places not to visit as well ;D

I have been pretty lucky with jet skis have seen plenty around the beach but never when I have been fishing, touch wood.

Those thundercats and tiny racing boats have killed off a few gutters for me though, and the odd low flying F18

[straddie]

Dazza, not a good plan. All that will happen is someone gets hurt, physically or financially and I would be happy to bet the final outcome probably wouldn't be what you think.

Gorilla_in_Manila that won't work I think the over riding thing isn't so much the license but being a net operation gives it right of way.

Peter thanks for finding that I thought I had seen or heard that.

You gave me a laugh with this too ;D
"So what is a reasonable excuse? If you were there first, maybe? Up to the Magistrate." I can imagine how that one would go ;D

REC: Judge I went there for a nice relaxing holiday. I had been fishing the gutter for over an hour when these guys come from nowhere and tell me to get the hell out the way because they want to shoot their nets. I told them now way was I moving, I was there first!

PRO: Judge I'm a 3rd generation professional fisherman, my family have lived and fished there every day, 365 days a year for the past 70 years. Who was there first?

Sorry but it makes me laugh ;D

[peterbo3]

Not as clear cut as it seems. ???"Using" may refer to having shot away - past tense. It does not give any pro the right to muscle or intimidate anybody else off the beach in order to shoot away - future tense. And when you bring in a possible assault or threatening language charge it all gets murky. :o
And in case people think that I also have something against commercial fishing - not so. I owned a prawn trawler working out of Cairns for a good number of years.

[Big_Kev]

Straddie you seem to have hinged your defence of netters on your own interpretation of one law.
As Peter has pointed out there are many laws under which one could argue the point of right of way for either party.
And unless this has been tested before and a precedent set, it would be an each way bet.
But seriously I think that the court would have more important issues to attend to, other than some spat between pro's and Rec's over the right of passage on the beach.
Cheers Kev.

[jaybee]

Never had any problems with netters up here, when i went and lived in NSW for a while can remember a time a netter come up to me whilst fishing a gutter, and he said we are going to have a shot shortly and you will have to move when we bring the net in, we will let you know, they did, i moved, and in the end was presented with half a tub of mullet, bream, tailor and whiting. ;D Guess they have change over the years eh. However, i feel if common courtesy prevails, and netters can offer a couple of fishermen a feed then why not, I can see potential problems if there is quite a few recs fishing the one gutter though.
cheers
Joe

[straddie]

Kev I am not really trying to defend pro's. When pro's are doing the wrong thing they should get what they deserve.
What I have been trying to do is give a little bit of balance and back ground.

I didn't make an interpretation of the law anywhere.
I am guessing it's my REC vs PRO in court story that must make you think that. It was a joke just thinking of what the judge will be thinking to himself about having to even hear the case and the how the sides of the case will be argued. As you said the court has better things to do with the time.

If pro's and rec's want to purposely confront each other there will be blood spilled, the different laws will be used against one another. I am guessing like all thing like this the only ones that will come out ahead will be the lawyers. That and the laws get changed making buying fish more expensive and parts of beaches being closed down while a net is run. No one will be better off.

In all honesty it doesn't really matter to me what recs or pro's want to do to each or try to stuff each other up, I'll just pull up a chair and have a laugh at the goings on, then when I have had enough, I will wander up to the next gutter and have a nice quiet fish ;D

[straddie]

Jaybee thats pretty much my experience with pro's as well, but I also know what has been said about being told to ***k off out the way happens as well. Some of them sure as hell aren't angels.

I find 99% of people are pretty decent when you cut them a little slack.

[SNAFU]

i have hade this happen to me on stradie(net arround you while you are still in water) only to find them at pub 2 hrs laterwith fish in back of flat top truck while they do BUISNESS in summer lastyear, i must admit.4 TONS OF FRESH TAYLOR ANYONE.

[jaybee]

straddie
I find 99% of people are pretty decent when you cut them a little slack Got to agree with you there straddie, I guess (or assuming) when the Government put the cut backs in for both recs and pros, if they used a little finesse, the air would be a little thinner between us. (recs and pros) What do you think?
cheers
Joe

[boomer]

so none of you have never had a feed of fish & chips or a prawn platter at your local ?

as a matter of fact i have had a feed of fish&chips at my local
(one peice of cod & couple of bucks worth of chips & a couple of seafood sticks thanks mate}
ok what i should have said
i'll have a peice of hoki,hake or nile pearch a couple of bucks worth of chips and some of those imported seafood sticks please mate
not to metion it tasted fine .

[Local_Guy]

in Yeppoon here fishing at Double Heads i remember 13 years back where you could go fishing and you knew u were going to catch a fish. even if it was a small 17cm trevelly. #now and the last 5 years your lucky to even get a decent bite, let alone a fish.

The pro's go and net the area adjacent to the rocks, getting the barra, macks and what ever else comes that way (salmon). #On a few occasions now it's completely ruined my fishing day. #It's generally where i go to get out of the wind and just want to relax and hope to catch something.

There isn't anyone watching the nets, but oh what a good rule "the owner of the nets has to be within 800m of them" so what do they do. go to the marina and have a beer or coffee... they are still within the 800m. #netting this close inshore should just not be allowed. #i don't have any care for Pro's. they shouldn't be allowed. #i only eat fish when i catch it. i never buy the stuff.

[straddie]

Jaybee, I don't think the word finesse exists in any governments statutes. :o After carefully considering the pro's and cons of a matter they will opt for the one that will best achieve their objective. Staying in power for another term.

I believe many laws are drafted by politicians with a purposeful bias in it to create instability. If possible, keep people fighting amoung themselves so they don't pay to much attention to what we are doing and realise who the real enemy is, it's just another twist on the old divide and conquer theme.

The legislation itself usually produces the doubt in peoples minds and causes the spark, then the self interest parties see an opening and stir it up into a raging conflict to use one side to attack another.

I think all fisherman should be working together, forget the pro and rec lines, to better manage the resource. That would make the pollies nervous.

Local_Guy, there has been a lot of development in the Yepoon are over the last 25years. Do you contribute the lack of fish only to the net fisherman?.

SNAFU, if thats what they did I hope the consignment got a condemnation order and they got a bill for disposal instead of the cheque they were expecting.

[CHRIS_aka_GWH]

just got back from the weekend :o what a great debate guys - nobody getting too personal that's what this forums all about.

I THINK, the conflict arises from misconceptions on both sides of the fence as to what a pro fishing licence is.

It is a permit to harvest (luv that term) a common resource on behalf of the people for personal profit. The people in return have a resource available for their consumption & / or conversion into other industry. The government (on behalf of the people) impose a licence fee on the permit holder to support the infastructure involved in its operation ( policing, education of permit holders etc).

The permit holder does not "own" a piece of the resource. They simply own the right of harvest. As they act on behalf of the common good, their right of access to the resources overshadow those of the individual (us guys & gals).

When fishing licences are bought & sold, the increase in value is based purely on speculation by the holder & /or the buyer as to the EARNING VALUE of the licence. Not the chunk of a resource (LIKE A PIECE OF GOLD). Thus when the government "bought-back" licences that were sat on & holderswere only compensated for lost earnings. The people should not have to buy what is already theirs.
The pros for the most part are doing their job within the law - if they are not their number is clearly visible & we have avenues of complaint. Move aside - the beach is not the place to protest.

Personally - I hate the practice of trawling & netting (notice I didn't say I hate netters) as it is so indiscriminate. Nothing breaks my heart more than to see a tonne of tailor on the back of a ute in the sun, all bruised & broken.

seeyainthesurf,
chris

[SNAFU]

i camp at cylinder beach at xmass with family and friends who live to fish like me and at least once a week the talk of the camp is how the pro's have stuffed up the only fish school on the island by running a net around it. they dont realise that a senior fishing inspector is one of the campers and sees all this going on.thank god it is closed now for pro's at times it is,pity it wasn't for good.one pro will take more fish with one shot of net than all rec fisherpersons on island all year.who puts more into economey?what is % of people getting more benafit and fun?buy pro's out so there will be something left for everyone in future.also what about bay traulers and damage they do?i saw them working inside st helena this morning flatout opposite jetty. is this legal. i am not sure of rules.back at manly ramp i was told the first winter whiting showed up between st and mud in about 5-6 m this weekend (early i thaught)by the pensioner pack who use this food supply to suppliment their pension as they keep well in deep freeze. i dont think they would sell them in pubs ect.i also dont buy fish from shops as it tastes like bait and it is usualy imported from somewhere else other then localy

ps did anyone see those genetic defectives on jetskies go through us at wello on sunday. they also went through everyone at harries (my mate was there) makes you wonder about some people doesent it.

[dazza]

hi all,
weren't the new laws on fraser made, taking into consideration tension between pro's and rec fisho's.?
remember hearing henry talking about it in an interview once.
if this is the case the govt are taking notice, albeit far too late. plenty of tourist dollars versus the cat food industry. ( waste of resource).
cheers
dazza

[PinHead]

"i don't have any care for Pro's. they shouldn't be allowed. i only eat fish when i catch it. i never buy the stuff"

That is not a very good attitude..just because you do not do something then everyone else is expected to do the same. That is similar to a vegetarian saying that raising of all cattle, sheep and pigs etc should be banned. What about the people that live a long distance from the coast, aren't they entitled to a feed of tailor or bream etc also. A bit far to drive to the coast to catch a few. Pros have a right to make a living as much as anyone else..however some of their methods could do with a bit of a rethink.

[straddie]

Chris - I agree with everything you said bar for one part, netting in the surf which was the rough subject, I believe is very targeted with minimal bycatch, and very little habitat damage, basically because of the manner and area in which it is conducted, even though I guess it is more by good luck than manangement.

Dazza I don't think any fish (noxious species excluded), let alone recreational species should ever be used for cat food, and the practice outlawed.

Pinhead to take it a little bit further there are also a lot of fishermen that wouldn't get a decent feed of fish if it wasn't for the local fish'n'chip shop. ;D
The 80/20 rule that applies to most things is probably closer to 90/10 when it comes to recreational fishing, eg 90% of fish are caught by 10% of fishermen.

[PinHead]

Straddie..they will never outlaw the use of fish in catfood. Pet food and products is the biggest selling item on supermarket shelves. Paul Keating when he was treasurer latched onto that fact very quickly. Pet food was sales tax exempt at the time..so during one of his budgets he removed the exemption on pet food and added 17.5% sales tax. Everyone thought it then had 17.5& tax on it..the fact was as soon as he lifted the exemption there was automatically 10% on it then add the 17.5%..made it 27.5% sales tax...they made a killing on that one. The pet food industry is huge and I doubt anyone will change it.

[straddie]

Pinhead I think the petfood industry could be beaten on using the wild fish population in their products, maybe not without a fight but they could be beaten.

It's not that mogeys would starve to death they would simply be getting a change of diet, such as meat offal as they already get, or from farmed species. The tax revenue would be unchanged and still be there for the government so there may be little resistance from them.

Seafood does not appear to to be a natural part of their diet. Where as they seem more than happy to catch and eat lizards, beetles, small mammals, birds etc. I think the only reason they get fish at all is it still continues to be a very cheap ingredient for the cat food industry.

The biggest fight might actually come from pro fishermen as it does represent a proportion of their income.

[Gazza]

Hi Straddie , good debate guys ;)

Just dreaming ,but 'if' e.g. there had to be say 1/2/5% CARP ,as part of the content ,that'd be a forward step......

Conversely , bream/snapper/tailor/etc. i.e. humanfood, should be 'limited' to say ,no more than X%......

Chuck in a 'kangaroo/wildpig' cull ,here and there, as appropriate ,and the petfood industry could be turned around to be 'goodguys'......

just dreamin 8)

Regards
Gazza

[basserman]

the biggest fight wouldn't be from pet food but from the pro fisherman
say the mullet men each year they chase the mullet up the coast for the row and the rest of the fish goes to pet food/bait/small amount to seafood so if you limit their catch because x% is all thats alowed in pet food their for droping the amount they are alowed to catch it would be world wars 3,4 and 5 from them

[Gazza]

Hi Basserman , mate if it was a requirement/regulation/legislation of a certain % ,don't see how WW3,4,5 could start ???

e.g. Macks 620T TAC ....... Pro's say "stuff you" , Mr. Guv't we're gonna rape/catch 900T ???

e.g. no ring-netting ,"stuff you" , we're gonna ring-net anyways >:(

Mate , WW3,4,5....... not an issue in the slightest ;)

Regards
Gazza

[argonautical]

What is the going rate for a pro fishing licence, not the nets, gear, trawler etc just the actual licence. What about the cost of a crab licence.

I would love to be in the position to buy the crab licence from the pro that operates around Wello, and then put it on a shelf. I know that this is being selfish, because all the non-crabbers will be denied the crabs the pro would otherwise catch, but from the point of view of the greater good..........i wonder how many ausfish members would contribute to this kind of thing?

I can't help thinking that it is only a matter of time until the Qld govt introduces a recreational fishing licence. Lets hope when this happens the funds are used in a manner that best supports those who paid the money in the first place.

Argo.

[Gazza]

Argo , checkout the NSW 'pie-chart' , and look for 'future' Pro buyouts.... #???

http://www.fisheries.nsw.gov.au/rec/!rec-home.html
about $1M plus is interest from the 200 Voluntary Pro's who wanted to getout anyways.

respect your opinion ,but that crabber you refer to ,ain't probably gunna sell ,if profitable anyway #???

p.s. as an Ausfish member ,I ain't paying for an RFL ,besides the PPV on boat-rego.
Regards
Gazza

[argonautical]

Gazza,

Interesting website, looks like about 25% of saltwater funds go towards buying back licences. I like the fact that there seems to be some level of accountability with how the money is spent. Do we have the same sort of accountability in Qld?

If it takes the introduction of a licence fee to drive that sort of process, I repeat I don't have a problem with it. With the money I spend on boat, fuel, gear, bait and tackle its not much in the scheme of things. This post represents 6 pages of people mostly complaining about netting etc, but very little in the way of solutions.

Argo

[aquarius]

Guys i have no problem in supporting an RFL provided it goes towards a program to upgrade facillities for the recreational angler and not just into the Government's pocket.
With more and more boates on the water these days boat ramps are already overcrowded and its only going to get worse!! #gees i wish they would build ramps just for jet skis..lol
ONLY JOKING. ;D
Cheers #Brent

[Gazza]

Regards
Gazza

[Gazza]

Argo , have a peek at these....
Regards
Gazza

http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/fishweb/10200.html

and 'accountability' here ......

http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/fishweb/10054.html

[imported_admin]

Guys i have no problem in supporting an RFL provided it goes towards a program to upgrade facillities for the recreational angler and not just into the Government's pocket.
With more and more boates on the water these days boat ramps are already overcrowded and its only going to get worse!!
Cheers Brent

I can not see how an RFL would fix this. We already have over 180 000 boats registered in Queensland, this is around $13 Million in boat registration.

Boat registration since 1993 has risen 60%. This is far greater than the population growth and if the trend continues the caos on the boat ramps will get out of control.

Before we give the Government any more money we should be asking where is the $13 Million going.

Fine, they are spending $200 000 on one boat ramp at Goodna.

Where is the rest of the $13 Million ?

I would suggest that you cantact the New Minister for Transport, Paul Lucas, and see if he can answer this question first. Trying to find his E-mail address, he was only appointed yesterday and the website hasn't been updated yet.


This is only Boat Rego, don't forget that on top of that you have $12.00 PPV Levy and trailer registration.

[Gazza]

Gazza,

Q1: Interesting website, looks like about 25% of saltwater funds go towards buying back licences.

Q2: With the money I spend on boat, fuel, gear, bait and tackle its not much in the scheme of things.
Argo

Argo , A1: It is true about 25% is for "loan repayment" ,but untrue to think/suggest ,more Licences are being bought out.

A2: That is very TRUE , and a very big 10% $GST$ dollar amount being returned to the QLD Gov't

Q's from Gazza (no answers req'd) , would you pay for free-to-air TV? , because you could afford to? Would you pay to walk-your-dog? ,or go jogging? , because you could afford to? , would you want QFS policing/enforcement of bag and size limits to be replaced with 'un-necessary' Fish Licence checking? because they have to?

Mate , IF you wish to donate $$$ ,buy 3 or 4 SIP (stock impoundment permits)......... in the same name/same expiry date. [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

Respect your perspective , but stop accepting ,as steve mentioned above in his post, monies ALREADY collected NOT being invested "back into the Fishery"

Regards
Gazza

[Fisheasy]

I'm with you Steve - sometimes finding the time to draft/write/send letters gets a little hard.
Wouldn't it be great if we could just download a letter, change our personal details on it and send it on to the appropriate authorities.
Aahhhhhh, if only life was so simple ::)

[basserman]

gazza all i was saying if you read it was the fight would't come from the pet food industry but come from the pro fishermen that sell these not good for much fish to the pet food industry
how would you like it if the goverment said that from now on you are not allowed to make x amount of $ from that business???
you wouldn't just take it sitting down would you???
you would try and fight with what ever you have to keep what ever income you have
so me saying it would cause world wars3-5 was just me saying that they would fight for it and play every dirty trick in the book to keep there way of life eg; get the greenies on side and re publish how rec fishing is in humane and causes fish pain
i say this because it happend wwith the nsw buyout when someone loses there way of life they have had for generation they get up set and stop at nothing

as for a RFL i think alot of you think it was only to put more fish back into the seas here in nsw it is working
we have rec fishing zones we have closed rivers to pro fishing and crabbing we have FADs along our coast within reach of most trailerboats we have more fish getting released into rivers and dams we have fish habitat reconstution areas we have plans for boat ramp reivations (had a look at the one planed for port macquarie with boat washing areas four single laned each with it's own jettiy something like 400 moniterd car parking) all this is comeing in way from the RFL it does work and will work better if we all do the right thing

[imported_admin]

Basserman

Nice to here you are getting a good ramps and wash bay, etc. But shouldn't this have come out of the existing Twenty odd Million dollars NSW boaties are already paying in boat registration and not the RFL.

As far as stocking dams are concerned we already have a Stocked Impoundment Permit (SIP) so can not relate that side to QLD.

[basserman]

true about the impoundment licence steve sorry [smiley=hammer.gif]
we all know where the rego money is going and it isn't to boat launcing faclitys as they are probley argueing (i know it has happened in sydney) about whos resonablity the ramp upkeep is the rta (or qld equle) would say they are mantaing the roads that we drive our cars and trailers along but as it happened (can't remember the suburb) in sydney they say their responablity ends at the driveway/access road
the loacal councle gets involed say they can't affor to have the upkeep for a few hundred cars (few hundred cars compaired to thousands of home oweners that is) thats where the water ways and fisheries come in and need to pick up the slack as they are the last on the line
so i guess what i'm saying is the rta or whoever just need to keep claiming it is not for them to do thats why the waterways and fisheries need to lookafter them as it is only boats and fishermen that use them

[basserman]

please don't get me wrong i don't agree with that but thats the way it get argueed
i personly would like to know where all my road fees and taxes goes as the roads in rural nsw leaves alot to be desired hell still havle are dirt roads and the sealded ones are getting that rough half the time you wait to hear the tyer go POP
i think it is disgusting that out of all the taxes we all pay there still isn't a dual carageway between melbourne and brisbaine

[Gazza]

Basser ,mate , i'll only hate your gutz come state-of-origin time ,promise!! ;D

Man ,you pay rego ,you got shit roads ,what's the solution ,pay more rego ??? :o

Mate ,that ramp you mention ,do you really believe after you pay for it ,it will be f-r-e-e ???

Gunna plunk a post under NSW Fisheries , as well ,so stay tuned ,as you guys need to admit , oneday, hopefully in this lifetime ,that "you pay, you say" is at best a crock o' crap ,at worst BS.....plain 'n simple.

p.s. CANETOADS e-a-t CROCKROACHES , ;D :D :D :D

Regards
Gazza
:P :P :P

[argonautical]

I'm with you Steve - sometimes finding the time to draft/write/send letters gets a little hard.
Wouldn't it be great if we could just download a letter, change our personal details on it and send it on to the appropriate authorities.
Aahhhhhh, if only life was so simple # ::)
Not sure what I am doing with this quote thing, butFisheasy that is eaxactly what was done in relation to the fish cage proposal. Download, edit as desired and mail. It was that simple.

Argo

[argonautical]

Gazza,

Checked out those websites, but I am a salty not a freshie so the freshwater stocking thing not on my radar.

I see your point about free to air TV, dog walking etc but I am not trying to fix things that ain't broke.

The way I see it things are improving for the rec fisher in NSW and it is down to RFI. Imagine a future where Moreton Bay was closed to professional fisherman. I'd like to see that.

Argo

[Gazza]

Mate ,not a problem #,that's my point #,FRESHWATER stocking , is good ,said many times , I support it(SIP concept) 110% , and I and any spur-of-the-moment mate ,can go fishing rivers fresh/salt ,or boat (as long as rego'd and safety stuff) ,abide by bag/size/piss and Recreational enjoy ourselves.....OUR choice !!! ,,either f-r-e-e or put 'n take option #[smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

my point #,it's not broke ,so don't fk :-X it up ,for the masses...

p.s. should add ,SunAqua can git fk'd #:-X ,for the same ideals you state #;) ;D

p.p.s. couldn't give you a link, on Salt ,as we don't need one, or have one #[smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

[basserman]

the boat ramp WILL be free that is a promaise as it is for port macquarie and they are closeing one down to do this one

but i hate trying to sing the praise of the NSW fishers detp.
and they go and spent the holders of a RFL money on some stupid study to see if the fishing is better or worst in one river to another! $365 000.00 WHAT A WAIST!
they do limited good out and with MY and other RFL holders money then do some thing SOOO stupid as this
if these MORONS in this fisheries dept. (of who have probly never fished a day in there pitiful lives) stuck to how the RFL was sposed to work eg:take our money to improve our fishing by helping water ways back to there pristin envoronement and lessing the presure on the fish i belive it would work but not by waisting money [smiley=angryfire.gif]
it sure isn't makeing me feel like buying another fishing licence when it is due again! [smiley=furious.gif]
as for the road well HMMM
how long have they been building this duel carageway!

[Gazza]

Mate ,tis free ,tis good ,and so it should be even in areas closer to sid-a-knee ,which i think is shutting one or 2 ,or trying to be 'restricted' by hours anyways.

p.s. mate,mate,mate ,if you 'legally' HAV-TA buy one ,buy it for your kids sake [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

illegally ,Gazza won't ,prefer to be a 'criminal'.... ::)

[basserman]

yep your right on that the loacal councils are shutting them down saying that they are not responiable for them
limited hours because of breakins and noise polution and bs like that!
makes me glad i don't live there anymore!
by the way i go for the toads i was born in brissie and lived their for about the first 3 years of my life

[Gazza]

Your a Maroon !!...... no wonder ya make a bit o sense in ya posts!! ;D :D :D :D

KR
Gazza

[basserman]

ta mate !!! ;D

[straddie]

Gazza #55 - X% bream/snapper/tailor/etc if X=0 that would be acceptable :D . The carp/roo/pig inclusions would be a good thing too, but probably not financially viable for them.

Argonautical #58 - Even if you could afford to do that you would probably find another pro would start dropping his pots there after a while.
#60 - The first 6 pages were kind of on subject :) and some suggestions/solutions were being put forward.

Steve #64 - I don't have a clue on registration breakups, but just guessing, Trailer rego I assume would be applied to road maintainance which might extend as far as ramps? and boat rego may go toward ramps, navigation aids, jetties, dredging etc. Playing devils advocate, not all fishermen have boats and not all boaties are fisherman so I don't know that you could argue that any boat rego monies is meant to go toward fisheries.

Fisheasy #66 - form letters are pretty standard features in a lot of govt decisions where they may ask for submissions from interested parties. If they got say 140 letters you would probably find 110 are probably form letters. Form letters are probably better than nothing, but someone taking the time to have have their own say probably carries a lot more weight.