Australian seafood

[agnes_jack]

Should we send all our quality seafood overseas and buy cheap imported seafood for our domestic market? Or should we only sell what is in excess of what aussie consumers want?

[CHRIS_aka_GWH]

Should we send all our quality BEEF overseas and buy cheap imported BEEF for our domestic market? Or should we only sell what is in excess of what aussie consumers want?

Tony, I am not meaning to be antagonistic - just wishing to make a point.

I had a piece of rump the other night at a mates place (who is a cutter by trade) & works for a company solely supplying export or high level domestic ie Posh Hotels - the steak was unbelievable & unavailable to the average joe (you & me).

It is also a loaded question (i chose not to answer) - did you write the last referendum question for the libs on the republic by chance #;D ;D ;D

chris

[agnes_jack]

Chris
And your point?

[jockey]

We should do both. Sell it overseas if they will pay us enough for it. It always has been and always will be available for Australian consumers.

If this is about the fishing party policy I suggest you be more spceific - ie a vote on whether we think the party should keep the policy.

[Brissyguy]

You have lost me Chris... :-/

And I didnt see any reference to the FP policy either ???
Maybe I am the silly one.

Lets look after our own backyard first before helping the neighbours with theirs.

[agnes_jack]

Jockey this is simply a poll to find out what mr average thinks about sending the majority of our best quality seafood overseas.
I am not into politics at all nor do I wish to be.

Regards, Tony

[blaze]

I dont think you can buy a good steak, fish, etc unless you buy on the hoof or off the boat.
I know the only way you can get a feed of abalone, crayfish,scallops or a good steak in circular head in tassie is to go get it yourself.
We export all our resourse
Our local community has a thriving farming and fishing industry and export all of it
BUT I have fun catching my own
cheers
blaze

[raefpud]

I remember visiting that butchers shop just to the left down past ur shop tony, and i was shocked to find that the only place in Agnes waters that sells seafood (the Butcher) only had old mackeral steaks and some frozen hoki or something like that, but that isnt quite the case in the bigger towns.

Here in Brisbane i know for a fact i can get most types of the seafood caught locally or throughout Australia, the quality however is a different issue. I can get prawns but i may not be able to get the big 9inch ones that OS markets scream for. I can get almost any type of finfish available except a 150kg yellowfin or southern Bluefin tuna. I can get tuna steaks but they arent sashimi quality. What I cant get is A grade beef, at all, I cant even get restaurant quality beef most of the time.
I honestly dont think that the Aussie consumer, that is fortunate enough to have such a wide variety and huge choice of fresh produce, will be prepared to pay top dollar for the "more desirable" cut or catch of the produce. I would love to buy our top quality beef and seafood in the supermarket, only I like most other Aussies am not prepared to pay top dollar for it, and i'm afraid that if A grade produce was put on the shelves of our supermarkets it would eventually spoil or go off or out-of-date. The fact of the matter is it does cost a lot of money to either grow, supply or harvest a superior product as opposed to an inferior or average standard product - those costs are then recovered by the high purchase price paid by the consumer - mate we cant win either way unfortunately, you are just lucky that everynow and then u get that window of opportunity where u can duck out to the reef and catch those big reddies to feast on. Its sad but true but it seems the only way we can enjoy the fruits of the sea is to catch it ourselves, but then where would the idea of catch and release go? as i said unless lotto numbers come up we just cant win.

[bidkev]

Hi Tony,

I'm not into politics either.......living through Maggie Thatchers era and having 2 sons sent to war because of her politics, finished me for good........and I've been a full-time union rep! :-)

That said, this is how I see it.

It's being exported because it fetches higher prices overseas. Exporters wouldn't go to that trouble if they could obtain a better market price here.

It boils down to the fact that the *average* Australian consumer has not proven that he would pay the price that the seafood attracts overseas.

The above is assuming that the exporters are simply following market forces, although this *may* not be the case.

A "conspiracy theory" abounded in Europe when, via ECC policy, certain foods were exported to other EEC countries where they were bought at a *lower* price (contrary to what I stated above). It was thought that this was done deliberately to make a "home shortage", thereby inflating the home price. What wheeling/dealing went on between the pollies of those countries, and why? Previously to this "ploy" they had simply stockpiled to create shortages but the outcry cost pollies their jobs. You may remember the scandals of 20 yrs ago where milk (which could have been powdered and sent to 3rd world countries) was simply poured down the drains and "butter mountains" were in abundance.

Creating "shortages" is a common ploy in European countries to inflate prices/profits, so Who *really* knows if this is (or is not) the case, here in Oz?

I think the only way that *quality* Oz seafood will stay here is if it is subsidised (which is common practice in Europe), which again raises the question of the fat cats being in a win win situation and the pollies giving away tax dollars to save their jobs.

cheers

kev

[CHRIS_aka_GWH]

How do you accertain "what is in excess of what aussie consumers want?" & still supply an export market with quality seafood in sufficent quantity that they will not source elsewhere.

What COULD happen by doing that is our export markets lock us out thru unreliability of supply & our "excess" becomes catfood. The other issues have all been gone over

Australian seafood dominates export markets for its quality. We as a society in general are not yet willing to pay the price asked for quality seafood in a world wide market. I don't know your business as such Tony, but you as a retailer stocking I would say 90% of product on your shelf from overseas would not exist but for the #markets opened by primary trade.

As I said Tony it is also a loaded question - ALL or NOTHING. When the reality is far more fuzzy involving sustainability & management of a resource as a export & domestic commodity within a free market economy (the post regarding WA fishery highlights that).

And a question for you. Why should an Australian citizen who CANNOT or CHOOSES NOT TO eat seafood or angle as recreation #gain benefit from the resource thru export? That is just one implication of your question.

If the second option in your poll read " manage the seafood export so a reasonable proportion of quality stock is available to the domestic market" then it may be a touch better. Would we be willing to pay the dollars for that kind of quality - when average joe aussie complains everyday to me about hiring a $25,000 new car for $39/day ??

chris

[jockey]

Why should an Australian citizen who CANNOT or CHOOSES NOT TO eat seafood or angle as recreation #gain benefit from the resource thru export?

If you don't mind me answering this one - The resource belongs to the entire community, not the pro anglers, not the rec anglers, not the people who like seafood. It is 'unfair' and wasteful to give a resource to one sector of the community and prevent the rest of the community from benefitting from it. Be it mining, farming, fishing, frequency bands or any other natural resource, you have to pay for the right to harvest/use and anyone in the community can (and does) benefit from the exploitation of the resource.

[Maria]

I have to agree with Kev regarding why our produce is sold overseas. That is, that it fetches a higher price on the tables overseas.

However, something that is a thorn is my side is that our produce goes overseas to fetch a higher price, while the average joe consumes second rate products. Now, as far as I'm concerned, I prefer to see the dollars going into Australian businesses, owned by Australians. But, what I would prefer more to see would be not only the profits staying in Australian pockets, but also the Aussies that provide the backbone and support for their businesses to have readily available for them the cream of the crop.

As Brissyguy said (sorry mate, can't remember your name), lets look after Australians before our neighbours. Enough of our industry is lost through poor management, illegal fishing activities and the likes, so lets try to keep what we can make of it in Australia, for Australians.

My ten cents worth.

Ben

[gruntahunter]

i agree with chris...question is stupid as there r so many factors that happen and they are not included in the question.To answer a question one must be able to say yes or no..not maybe .
But as for the republic question chris..it did have a yes or no answer mate.yes or no .lol

[Cheech]

Bloody hell guys. You have all turned this poll into a contination argument of the fishing policy thread.

The question is should our seafood be made available for Aus customers.

Seems an easy enough question to answer yes or no to.

My vote is yes.

The question posed is not about cost. Just availability.

However, if I go to Coles to do the shopping, and now knowing that the fish is probably not local produce, if the local produce was available (and would need to be clearly marked such) and next to it was the imported equivalent, but at a lower price, I would probably spend the extra.

We have already established on a different thread that people with a bit more disposeable income will tend to waste/consume/spend extra. Just because. I think a lot of people would pay for quality given the option. Perhaps not every time, but if you were eg having a dinner party or some special occasion, you would not hesitate to get the better quality if you had the choice. Wouldn't take long for people to catch on to this inported produce information. Currently they just don't know (as we didn't).

And yes,,, I do buy Australian grain fed beef.

Cheech

[peterbo3]

Tony, that is a tough choice. But there is plenty of local seafood to be had. Just like there is plenty of 4/5 (weighs 4 to 5LB ) eye fillet around. Go to a wholesale butcher.



Looks like a lot of people are looking for Aussie seafood in the wrong place.
Go to the wholesale outlets & buy a carton. Too expensive-get a crew together & split a carton.
Aussie Barra IQF & fillets individually bagged-less than $20 Kg
but a carton weighs 12 - 14 Kg.
Aussie Tiger Prawns 10-20 (green)-$22 Kg. Carton weighs 11-15 Kg.
You go to your local Coles & most of the stuff is imported. So go elsewhere.
As the owner of an East Coast prawn trawler out of Cairns I can tell you that product was packed to suit pallets. 64 cartons to the pallet. ALL export grade but a lot ended up in Sydney & Melbourne restaurants. We did not pack prawns in 1kg lots.
Hit the Yellow Pages & all will be revealed. :o :o :o :o
And it is hard to outlay $300 on a carton of prawns. But if you want the best you have to pay.

[kc]

While it look like Tony was just trying to gauge, by poll, some general feelings it seems the other post has certainly spilled over into this one.

So...might as well restate the reasons it all started.

Within the total catch we think a percentage should be directed (by law)domestically, regardless of the export price and direct enough so that supply and demand forces resulted in lower domestic prices. As it stands, with one of the few fisheries I am well versed about, nothing is stopping 100% of the coral trout catch, which has risen as a direct result of the live trout trade, from 1500 tonnes per year to in excess of 2500 tonnes a year, all being exported.
When the reductions in TAC come into effect later this year the chance of buying it will be near impossible (at $120/kg for fillets...based on top price of $70/kg whole live weight ex Bowen) The TAC will be just too valuable to the pros to fish for the fillet/domestic market if they are only allowed to catch a certain amount per vessel per year and THIS is what will spur on a black market.
Export markets and increased prices DIRECTLY and unequivicabley(yeh I know I spelt that one wrong) increase pressure on the fishery. Of that there can be no augument. Call it greed, human nature or supply and demand forces....no matter which way you look at it in any fishery, if the price commercial fishers receive for their "product" suddenly increases, so does the effort...bigger boats..better equipment so they can fish more days..make more money!! Just human nature.
The only thing stopping this is generally fisheries managers stepping in to put the brakes on. Just look at what they are doing in SA, now catching pre spawning age tuna, hand feeding them and then selling them off before they ever have a chance to breed. Would this happen if it was not export driven?? I think not! There is absolutely no doubt that this is good for the economy, but at what long term cost to the fishery?

It is well recognised..finally, that the ocean is not an endless provider. It has its limits. The largest fish consuming nation in the world has so destroyed its own fisheries resources that it has now turned its attention to countries prepared to do the same...all in the name of the mighty buck.
I know Jockey & I will continue to disagree on this issue but personally, I see the export demand for our seafood as a prime driving force in the overfishing of many species, not just here but worldwide.

Somehow it needs to be reined in. I just don't know the mechanism for doing this without upsetting the economic rationalists who control government policy. I just feel very strongly that Australia should not become fishmongers to a world that has already destroyed so much of its own fisheries.

& Peterbo3..mate. tell me where I can buy 4/5 long fillets, or veal backstraps...at any price. Since Mad Cow hit Amercia our beef exports have also gone Off!! and good meat is as rare as rockin'horse poop. I'm currently getting VFO 3/4's and paying $29 (wholesale)...mind you it is still pretty cheap compared to what I have to pay for trout fillets and U8 tigers.

Regards

KC

[PinHead]

I know what my answer would be...with my business..If I have the chance to do 2 similar jobs..cost of materials on both is $1000.00 and one client will pay $2000.00 for the job and another $3000.00, I sure as hell know which one I will be doing and it isn't the $2000.00 job.

[kc]

Exactly!! Human nature. You can't blame the pros for trying to make the best money they can....you can only look for regulations to curb a problem like this and this falls back in the governments lap.

KC

[Brissyguy]

LMFAO at the responses here Tony,

I bet you wished you never posted it now lol...
I never, and I bet you never thought so many people would find it so hard to simply say yes or no lol...

Cheers Mate,
Rich.

[jockey]

I see the export demand for our seafood as a prime driving force in the overfishing of many species, not just here but worldwide.

Somehow it needs to be reined in. I just don't know the mechanism for doing this without upsetting the economic rationalists who control government policy.

Controlling the market won't get rid of that demand. The only effective way to reign it in is via a TAC. Yes the price will go up, but with a limited resource that everyone wants a piece of it's inevitable. I would certainly prefer the free market to decide who gets it than have the government decide who gets the fish. And it won't stop there. Whoever gets the fish is just going to want to sell it because of the even higher black market price. It's hard enough for the gov't to keep illegal fishing boats out and stop locals raping and pillaging. Trying to control the export market in a country where (as far as I know) only the import market is currently monitored would be futile. Fishing our waters illegally is a risky business. Handing out the fish for free or dirt cheap (comparitively) to locals would only make things easier and more profitable for the black market. Why risk life and limb on a dodgy fishing boat on the open sea and pay people to do the same when you can just book a holiday and turn up to woolies and buy it?

Once upon a time rent control was introduced for inner city apartments in big american cities so that the average joe who worked in the city (say at maccas) could afford to live near work. In fact the exact opposite happened. Owners would only rent their appartments to the richest people. A poor tenant will wait six weeks for you to get off your arse and get a plumber in. A filthy rich one will call the plumber themselves and pay for it them selves, and probably leave the apartment in a much better state than they found it. They would even rent completely empty, badly damaged appartments and do them up for you. Plus you had to know someone or bribe someone to get into a rent controlled apartment. Maybe even pay extra rent 'under the table.' But not just anyone could do that. You can't trust a poor person to give you the extra rent and you can't kick them out if they don't, but a rich person is less likely to do that. So it was the rich and the dodgy who benefitted, not the poor.

The same would happen here. You can't stop this supply and demand thing. There are ways to stop overfishing (a TAC) and to take from the rich and give to the poor (tax), but the government can't dictate who buys what.

[agnes_jack]

Well...... that really stirred the pot! LOL
My question was meant to be a very simple one, purely to satisfy my curiosity as to what mr average thought about the issue. Yes Chris I suppose it could have been worded a little different,but I did think it a simple question. The answer to your question was covered by jockey, so I wont go into it again. My intention was not to transfer your arguments to another thread, to support the fishing party, or to load a question. I am a simple person not affiliated with any political group trying to sway public opinions in anyway, just curious how others see this issue. Some of you guys must be really uptight to be able to read all of this crap in between the lines. My appologies to those who are offended by this thread this is not my intention. Ithought the arguing had all been done.
Thanks to those who could see my intentions, and replyed with a sensible answer. To all the others- Crikey! relax! go fishing and enjoy the weekend, the weathers good, the fish are biting, lifes good. To anyone who wishes to continue the arguing-Argue with someone who gives a rats! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Regards, Tony ;)

[kc]

Touchee!! Well said Tony. Interesting results from the poll so far.

Regards

KC

[jockey]

I don't much like your attitude Tony. ;)