GPS. Arn't they great!!

[Cheech]

Got my first GPS during the week. Tested it yesterday and this morning. Never realised how usefull they actually could be.

Sorry, not a usual type post. Just really impressed with my new boating/fishing aid. Even if my recently acquired spots don't help in catching fish, at least I will get to and from much safer.

Cheech

[Tracker]

:-Xalso good fun to play with when fishing is quite. ::) ::)

[Morlers]

Now just need to fine tune some waypoints you might happen upon. Remember to ensure you use the same datum, otherwise you could be way off the mark.

Have fun.

:) :)
Morlers

[lanceinator]

What format & Datum do the majority use???? Also, if there is enought interest, should there be a dedicated folder so everyone who wants to, can share their favorite marks and tracks/routes. Possibly build a data base!

[CHRIS_aka_GWH]

cheech,

if u fish the pin take a day's boating to mark in unlit beacons & commonly used trails - you will never regret it & it makes the ability to run between different spots on dark night unreal.

trails I have saved include - Jacobs to Kalinga, the Bedrooms,
Cabbage tree to Kalinga, Tiger Mullet, Cobby Cobby East ent, Cobby Cobby West ent, Oak Island Pass etc etc

i've also done others in the bay - always use the same method to form & describe them. Always take the time to "clean up" the data in your GPS after each trip, just as you take the time to clean up ya motor

[aido]

just hope the u.s. military keeps plowing billions of bucks into
the system to keep it serviceable.
can't see 'em doing that if a newer updated version of gps gets
up and running. enjoy it while we can.
don't be surprised if the next generation system incorporates
user pays coding... hopefully there will be a downloadable crack
on the internet soon affter, ;D ;D ;D.

i always say a silent word of thanks to american generosity
every time i turn mine on.

[Kerry]

....just hope the u.s. military keeps plowing billions of bucks into the system to keep it serviceable.
can't see 'em doing that if a newer updated version of gps gets up and running. enjoy it while we can....

What "newer updated version of GPS gets up and running" might that be?


....don't be surprised if the next generation system incorporates user pays coding...

Where does this speculation come from?

Cheers, Kerry.

[aido]

rumour and speculation in the industry kerry.
the u.s. really blundered in the first place by not planning
to commercialise the current system as it grew from the early
'transit' sat nav system.
i think once the question of bucks are sorted, like how to separate
you and me from them, gps version 3 will go ahead.
don't expect the current system to be maintained (new block 2 sat launches) and
watch the gradual degregation over several years of gps as we know it now (free to air).

not sure on the euro plans with the galileo system??

you can find your own info, try the rand corp..
here's a starter for a hint...
http://www.gpsworld.com/gpsworld/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=21892

hope my speculations are wrong though kerry,
i like the system the way it is now.
regards, aido.

[Kerry]

Considering that article is now 2 years old with hindsight it does tend to highlight just how much of that was speculation. It’s sort of interesting looking back over past rumours and comparing them to what has eventuated.

I also wouldn’t say the U.S. blundered as far as not commercializing the system is concerned either. In many respects civil use of GPS really only came about as a result of the KAL-007 incident. Since this 1983 event U.S GPS policy has been “Free of direct user charges” and as far as I’m aware this policy has not changed with the U.S still committed to providing GPS service free of direct user fees to civil users worldwide.

Basically this is one of the issues GPS has with Galileo, where as Galileo will be a commercial system (to some extent) how interoperability of a free system (GPS) and Galileo (a fee-based system) can function properly in safety of life applications.

“don’t expect the current system to be maintained (new block 2 sat launches) and watch the gradual degradation over several years of gps as we know it now(free to air)”

Cant’ see the “free to air” service on L1, L2 or L5 changing for peaceful civil, commercial and scientific applications. Simply a non issue.

New block 2 sat launches? Well next one is now scheduled for this Friday (has been postponed several times in the past week due to Boeing having some rocket problems), last Block IIR launch was March 20, 2004, 3 IIR’s were launched in 2003, another due for Sept 2004 (all up 3 for 2004) and the first of the IIR-M’s now due Feb 1, 2005 with another 2 IIR-M’s to follow in 2005 (another 3).

So really the system is being maintained past its capability as one issue has been that some of the existing satellites are still going well past their designed life of 7 years with several now well over 14 years old. Actually some of the recent IIR launches are being dropped in slots with the older vehicle simply being left in place as a spare.

As for GPS IIF well they just might take a back seat to GPS III as again at the present rate of decay of the existing satellites, GPS III might be at a stage where they don’t/won’t need to worry too much about the IIF’s. Crikey if one had to wait to expend/launch all the remaining IIR’s (IIR-M’s), then a full build of IIF’s we probably wouldn’t see the benefits from a full constellation if GPS III’s for another 30 years (even more) at the current rate of attrition. Really the dam things have been over built, most have simply refused to die when they were designed (supposed) to. Really Block IIF technology is already dated and none of these have even been launched yet! The original IIF contract for these was let in 1996! Technology is moving faster than things can be replaced.

Actually with every new IIR (currently 10 in number and Friday will make 11) in orbit the system gets that little bit better as the technology in the IIR’s is much more advanced than something that was launched back in late 90’s based on a late 80’s design. The IIR’s being launched today actually cost less than the outdated satellites they are basically replacing.

So come Friday (lacking anymore Boeing problems) the system gets that little bit better again and the quicker some of that antiquated 70's technology dies then more the better, you'll like things even better :D

Cheers, Kerry.

[aido]

further to the free gps vs pay gps debate, and
reading between the lines of information that are out there,

seems to me that america would dearly love to charge for
using their gps service, (how much would you reluctantly pay
to use the service each fishing trip? $5?, $10?, ???) i'd probably
go to 10 bucks to get to my favourite places like i do now for free.

but, and the big but is, the proposed european galileo system for
2008 could send the american gps system (even their space dominance)
to the scrapyard if the euro system undercuts any ideas of a user pay system.
big business politics at work, don't you love it.

so we seem to be safe for the time being, but like it of not, gps3 and
user pays systems wait in the wings, least till galileo fails because
gps2 now is free (thank you ronald reagan, rip).
side note, thanks also bill clinton for turning off the degraded mode switch.

picture is getting clearer now,
aido.

edit, kerry,
didn't see your post as i was sending this one, but of course gps2 is being maintained and improved, its got to last till
galileo dies a painfull expensive death. besides, there's plenty
of wars to be fought till that day. the more 2r's or f's they fly till
that day the better, love it.
thanks george bush, keep up the good work for us fisho's.

oh, a very big thank you to the american tax payer also. #:o
aido.

[Kerry]

This "perceived" thought that GPS might end up a user pays system really needs to be put in some perspective as SPS GPS WILL NOT go this way (trust me ;)).

What might be confusing some is all the talk about Galileo being user pays and user pays it is BUT again not for all services and the basic positioning service will be free-to-air.
Really if Galileo even had the slightest inkling they could get away with user pays right across the board they probably would, but they can't, they realize that and if one looks deeper into the "economic" reasoning behind "commercial" systems like Galileo then one can see the "necessity" behind the unmistakable requirements of free-to-air apart from the commercial side of the system.

GPS and Galileo are really quite different in many respects and one of the main differences (right now) is that Galileo is still only a “proposal”. As someone once said, maybe Galileo’s motto should be “Better late than Never”, but it is coming, just nothing to showing in the heavens yet and when it does GPS will have something like 27 years on it.

You know the interesting part is that the EU’s reasoning to build Galileo was that they had trouble with GPS being owned and run by a single country (that being the United States) as in times of conflict the control of the system lies in the hands of one nation (that also being the United States in fact) yet Galileo doesn’t have a military service but guess which system the NATO (including those of the EU) countries will be relying on.

Quite frankly if the sh.. does ever hit the fan does a system controlled by a group of countries that historically have bad bouts of infighting offer much security? Right at this point even though Galileo is under the umbrella of the EU the Galileo frequencies etc are held in the name of only ONE country.

Lets face it, Galileo is a commercial system, it really has to be to pay its way (if it gets off the ground) but this won’t change the face of GPS in any way shape or form. For the benefit of users the 2 systems will have to work together and since Galileo agreed to move their PRS away from the GPS M-code, well at least now the Galileo open services (civil free-to-air etc) or the PRS or the GPS M-code can now at least be jammed in isolation ;D.

But gotta not keep getting “GPS things” and “Galileo things” mixed up, one yet to be system doesn't and won't control what the other does.

Cheers, Kerry.