$1000 to charity for undersize fish prossecuti

[imported_admin]

We are trying to finalizing the details tonight so further information will be posted later tonight or tomorrow.

The basis will be that for every person that purchases undersized fish from a store in Queensland and takes them along to the DPI with a receipt from the store we will donate Ten times the cost of the fish, up to $100.00, to a charity. $1000.00 is currently available.

This has been made possible by an anonymous donation of $1000.00 being donated for the cause.

[MY-TopEnder]

Woohoo... Great idea you have there, and good to see some genuine action being taken and some incentive to get action taken by the DPI.

Its funny i was at Sunnybank today at the *un-named* fish shop and the bream were of a reasonable size, seemed to be average 23cm. And there were no whiting what so ever.

[jaybee]

with the advertising this has been getting i think you will be hard pressed to find some undersized fish in these shops until the flak dies down, however i will keep my eye open on the shop in logan, hey top ender, have you seen the fish shop at the Brisbane markets, not too many tubs of legal fish there
cheers
Joe

[MY-TopEnder]

Nah mate can't say i have seen it, but i have noticed a few sus ones around the sunnybank area hey.

[jaybee]

well without pointing the finger the shops in question arent owned by ppl born in aus, however, some are close to home
cheers
Joe

[northsboy]

"NOT POINTING THE FINGER BUT" LMAO! We all know who ya talking about though ahahhaa :P :P :P
Thats a good idea though!!!....Get rid of some of these people selling undersize fish!

[gif]

Pointing the Finger?

Forget the shops #- I want to know who is actually catching these fish and sellng them to the shops? # That's where the damage is done. #Thats where the fish are killed and not released.

It's too late #- the're dead before the shop sees them.

I blame the commercial fisherman #- he kills them.

... and if you are going to get cross with the shop who buys them then also get angry with the consumers who buy them.


Maybe DPI will start to give shops a hard time - but if they were serious they would trace the fish back to the guy who caught them.

These commercial fishermen are under a lot of pressure too - the real answer is to buy out their licences - at a fair and generous price. After all - rec fishing is worth more to the economy than Commercial Fishing. The last numbers I saw showed that we spend about $65 per kg of fish caught.

( I bet I spent a lot more! )

Gary Fooks
(yes I know it sounds like #- but my name is actually English / German)

[MY-TopEnder]

Yeah i agree with you there Gary but there is one thing you should also be aware of, being that not everyone who buys a whole fish is going to know the legal sizes and so on. Ok there is a fair chance most will but then there are people who won't.

There really should be more publicity of what actually IS the legal size for these fish.

Still i agree with you whole-heartedly with your comments about it being the trawler owner that causes all these problems.

[raefpud]

great idea Ausfish - well done

Maybe the fish shops should be made to diplsy legal sizes of fish in queensland aswell - then the consumer might think twice about buying an undersized fish

go the recreational anglers vigilante movement !!!

[ProFleet]

For a start , you guys are off your collective heads. :o

hmmmmmm....

where do i start .... ???

As a commercial fisho who works qld and nsw i can tell you the inspections we recieve are rubber glove material.. most of us have to log exact catch weight , amount of bins , where and when were landing , who exactly we are selling to long before we land .. not to mention permits to land interstate fish in outerstate waters. .. once again not to mention the extra waterways and qld boat/fish inspections... "the commercial fisherman .. he kills them": ,, .. I CAN TELL YOU NOW "MATE">>> I know where the local pros sell their catch and when 99% goes overseas and then the local market gets flooded with catch that i can tell you didnt come from the local commercial crew.. YOU WORK IT OUT >:(

[raefpud]

dipsly? no i'm the only dipsly one around here - i should have said display

[adamleah]

What about crabs without there shells...

I' ve seen this around fairly often.. Is it legal to sell small crabs like this?

[MarcusD]

What about crabs without there shells...

I' ve seen this around fairly often.. Is it legal to sell small crabs like this?


I think you'll find that all "soft shell" crabs are farmed.

[SeaHunt]

Exactly ProFleet, I think you will find that these people (who were not born in Aus, as someone put it ) are supplying themselves, or at least their lations are. >:(
I am sure 99% of the pro's stick to the law , they can't afford not to.

Raefpud, that is a brilliant idea.
If every fish vendor, had to clearly display the legal sizes of fish they sold, most of the problem would disappear tomorrow.. I suppose they would fillet them all then. :P
Easy to legislate, low cost for the vendors, easy to enforce, and undersized fish regulated by the public.

[aido]

great idea...
i heard there is a feature on 'today tonight' ch7 tonight.
undersize fish at the markets is exposed, doh, as if we
wern't aware already???
perhaps the dpi don't know yet, let's see what comes of it.
as far as i can remember, fish shops/markets have always had
what looks like undersize critters for sale.

my missus just bought a 48 cm red snapper??? at action foodstore.
1.3kg @ $7.98kg. bargain. i'm still confused at the red snapper bit
though, would be imported from somewhere???

[baldyhead]

I wonder what would happen profleet if that 99% was to be sold in Aus instead of o'seas...I just wonder! ;D

[jaybee]

Gary Fooks
Forget the shops - I want to know who is actually catching these fish and sellng them to the shops? the lady that was interviewed give you the answer gary, they buy big containers (fibreglass eskies) Warren Markwell, Markwell fisheries, deep sea fisheries and a host of other names, brings these eskies up from down south, he doesnt know what is in them, only his buyers and the pros, and he is only one eh. however, the fish in the eskie is legal down there, yet legally we cant catch squire or muddies in nsw and bring them here because they are undersize to our limits. what we should be pushing for is uniform law, not trying to hang people. only then things would tighten in the shops, would you agree. I have tried with my local member, and its like over their head and henry's
cheers
Joe

[SeaHunt]

Just watched report on ch 9, Brisbane extra, It #was pretty well done but the store owner produced a receipt and basically blamed the markets and therefore pros.
But to me, a receipt does not mean shit. Who is to say they didn't buy a crate of legal bream from the market and then their cousin drops around a heap of undersized ones they just mix in with the legal ones. How come the shops selling the illegal ones all seem to be run by people of the same ethnic background. :P
If they came from the markets you would find them in ALL the fish shops, doesn't add up. >:(

[Kerry]

As in usual things don't add up, many unanswered questions but yet many start shooting without really knowing anything in the first place, just making assumptions.

Really it doesn't matter where the fish are coming from but where ever one finds them then that is what is hit. None of this ah poor retailer who doesn't now stuff, must have been a pro do this, well if anybody has the facts/proof then go for it but the thing is to cut the trade in any way, shape or form, where ever.

Maybe the final purchaser might be a little out of touch with regulations but there is absolutely no excuse for ANYBODY esle in the sales chain.

Really there's a few unexplained events in some of this.

Cheers, Kerry.

[gif]

Hey Profleet

I stand corrected - I honesty don't know all the facts. I do KNOW the changes I have seen in the regulations and I am sorry that life is getting tougher and tougher on you guys.

So I am willing to listen and learn more from you.

I don't know another solution, except getting tougher. Yes I can see a shop shouldn't have to check every fish.

Did you see how the inspector measured the Tailor? That is definitely wrong - pinching the tail. The Law ( Fisheries Regulations Schedule 4 page 196) is absolutely clear on that. That piching the tail is how they passed fish that shoudl not have passed.

Fish from other states? we have the lowest size limit on Bream in Australia. I know the southern Black Bream are a larger species, but whatever size they choos ther will be creeping on the edges. So maybe we need to Regulate a larger size than the Scientists recommend - to allow for cheating on the edges?

Gary

[boof]

well

[trevcob]

Cheating ? we are only cheating our kids and grand kids and so on weather thay are new Australians or not thay are playing a fools game.

[MY-TopEnder]

Well thats right Trev... if we don't stand up as recreational fishermen and do something about ANYONE taking undersize fish, there won't be anything for you to take the grandkids out to catch....

Basically if ya see it happening, call Fish Watch on the 1800 number.

[simmo1]

sounds like a really good idea

[NQCairns]

Quote :Well thats right Trev... if we don't stand up as recreational fishermen and do something about ANYONE taking undersize fish, there won't be anything for you to take the grandkids out to catch....

Yep join the fishing party ;) and or vote for them

[MY-TopEnder]

Yep join the fishing party ;) and or vote for them


How?

[imported_admin]

Interesting to see on the show that the DPI were measureing the fish with its tail pinched together. This is not the way to measure a fish, the correct way is shown on the website http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/fishweb/2881.html#Measuring , as well as in the Regulations Schedule 4 page 196.

For example - If you measure a bream by pinching its tail together and it is just over 23cm it would be undersize as per the regulations and you could be fined.

So please make sure that when you measure a fish you do it as per the brochures and the Regulations Schedule 4 page 196.

[Fitzy]

Interesting to see on the show that the DPI were measureing the fish with its tail pinched together. This is not the way to measure a fish, the correct way is shown on the website http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/fishweb/2881.html#Measuring , as well as in the Regulations #Schedule 4 # page 196.

For example - If you measure a bream by pinching its tail together and it is just over 23cm it would be undersize as per the regulations and you could be fined.

So please make sure that when you measure a fish you do it as per the brochures and the Regulations Schedule 4 #page 196.


Steve,
Have done a few fisheries courses & the way I was shown to be the correct way to measure fish is to pull the tail together when fish have a concave tail. It is maximum atainable length of the fish they're looking for. If the fish has a flat or convex tail it is taken on the centre line.
Any talk about fork length is a C&R comp driven thing trying to eliminate cheating & human error.

fitzy.

[gif]

Sorry Fitzy I bow down to your experience and value your advice

But your course you attended is now out of date. Also a number of Inspectors are out of date too. It changed in December. ( maybe earlier) . and I checked this only last Thursday with DPI Head office staff.

As you know, the ONLY thing that counts in Court is the Legislation / regulations. Not courses nor brochures

The old wording in the Regulations was unclear and they were using and teaching the stretch out method. Probably when you did your courses.


In the December regulations it all changed. There is even a diagram in the Regs and a specific instruction that the fish cannot be manipulated to make it longer - ie no massaging or stretching.

see below

Gary

Fisheries Regulation 1995
2 Measurement of size of fin fish
(1) The size of a fin fish is decided by measuring, with the fish in the required position—
(a) for bar-tailed flathead, mud flathead or sand flathead—the
distance along a straight line along the centre of the fish’s
underside from the fish’s mouth to the end of its tail; or
(b) for a fin fish not mentioned in paragraph (a)—the distance along a horizontal line (the “measurement line”) along the fish’s side from its mouth to—
(i) the point on the measurement line where the fish’s tail ends; or
(ii) if part of the tail extends further than the point on the
measurement line where the fish’s tail ends—the point on
the measurement line corresponding in length with the end
of the longest part of the fish’s tail.
(2) The following figure is an illustration of the operation of
subsections (1)(b) and (4), definition “required position”, in diagrammatic form—


see below

(3) For subsection (1), the size of the fish must be measured without stroking or otherwise physically manipulating the fish, other than to the extent reasonably necessary to allow the fish to be measured as required under the subsection.
(4) In this section— “required position” means—

(a) for a fish mentioned in subsection (1)(a)—lying on its underside;
or
(b) for a fish mentioned in subsection (1)(b)—lying on its side with the dorsal fin facing outward and its mouth closed.

[imported_admin]

Ok Guys - here are the details of the Charity Donation.


To get the donation you need to:

1 Buy samples of the undersized fish from a retail outlet in Queensland.

2 Keep the fish and a receipt

3 Report the purchase to DPI Fishwatch 1800 017 116 ASAP ( this is
a free call, 24 hour service) and ask them to collect the fish and receipt

4 Report all the details, including the Fishwatch call, to Ausfish via email info@Ausfish.com and via a reply to this post. Do not include any business names in the post here, but make sure you include them in the email.
If you don't want to be named, email the details to info@Ausfish.com.au and
I will post the details without your name.

5 For every $ you spend on undersized fish our anonymous donor will
pledge ten times the amount to a charity ( to a maximum of $100 per report)

6 At this stage the total donation promised is $1,000. This may be
increased.

7 The donor will suggest a short list of charities. Ausfish members
can then vote and choose their favourite.

8 The Offer will remain open for a maximum of one month, or until
funds are expended.


So Go For it! For years we have been hearing complaints about this. The
DPI is listening now, thanks to the media - so this is the time to have an
effect, and maybe make a real difference for the first time. Besides, you
will be ensuring $1,000 goes to charity.

[MY-TopEnder]

Awesome work there Steve, very well thought out plan and something i'm sure we will all be willing to support. I'll let you know how i go over the weekend in my further investigations.

[propdinger]

Steve
what if 10 people get fish from the same shop

[ProFleet]

You would be supprised what goes thru restaurants and hotel chains ,, mainly in undersized squire ,whiting etc.. I know because I was once a kitchenhand in a seafood restaurant.. But from what ive heard it happens everywhere..thru the backdoor from recos.{and yes prob the odd pro too,,but only the very brave/stupid} ... They (restaurants/hotels) have less checks than shops and processors and have more avenues to escape thru loopholes.{try seeing how prosecuting a hotel chain affects its business or the way it operates} How you going to argue the fish your eating didnt shrink while it was cooked ,not to mention filleted product.

And, seperately, as a fishing BUSINESS we try not to flood any market unless it can sustain it purely because it drives the price down.And that doesnt make commercial sense.Also means we have to work harder . Local markets usually dont take long to fill , and when we find people sellin fish ,undersized or otherwise ,without proper licenses,, well lets just say we dont take it lightly.

..................... 8)

[jockey]

So you're not allowed to insert a knife between each vertebra, twist it sideways, grab the fish by the tail while your mate grabs its head and stretch it then get a rolling pin and massage the flesh to stop it contracting back? Those fishing comp boys sure have a lot to answer for.

Whoever made the rules for fisheries needs to go back to school and do a bit a trig. From the description given you can take the longest measurement from the mouth to any part of the tail. The measurement line has to be horizontal, but the fish can be any way you want it. 'Corresponding in length' doesn't mean much.

Can we place bets on who the anonymous donor is? My money's on fisheries.

[northsboy]

Boys just about the measuring of a fish......If you have to measure the thing coz your not quite sure whether its legal or not throw the bloody thing back! I hope im not sounding like a greenie or anything(not that there bad or anything lol :-X) But if its that small that you have to measure it to keep it, let it go.......thats what i rekon anyway,but hey everyone is different!
About the charity that sounds good,well done ausfish and the person that donated the money [smiley=2thumbsup.gif] [smiley=2thumbsup.gif] [smiley=2thumbsup.gif] [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

[Maria]

Have to agree with Liam there. Seriously, if you gotta measure the fish within a half cm, using the correct technique etc etc, why bother? The Fish is obviously only JUST legal, and thus probably not worth taking anyway. If it comes to that, throw it back. A: It's not worth the risk, because such small measurements are open to a lot of criticism with authorities, and B: as I said, it's probably only just legal and better to send it home again.

Ben

[sir_noelus]

I agree that shops should not sell fish below the size we are allowed to keep, regardless of how or by whom they are caught. There should be only one rule for each fish and it should apply in ALL states (so should fish naming be addressed. ie a snapper is a snapper regardless of its size). I also agree that if the method of measuring is so critical in ascertaining the length, chuck the bloody thing back. It's so close to illegal it doesn't matter. Profleet seems to me to have a fair bit of sensible logic in his comments, and for sure not all pro's are bad. On the other hand, remember that not all reco's are good either. Noel

[SeaHunt]

Maybe Noel, but it might not be that simple because some species grow a lot bigger in some areas (States) than others. eg if you made it say 35 cm for a whiting , that might be fine in SA, or VIC , but we in Qld would never see one. :P

[Maria]

Seahunt also has a very good point regarding where the fish come from. I don't think it's always the commercial guys to blame 100% of the time either. I don't mean to sound racist, but lets face it - there's a lot of fishing done by some of our northern neighbours in our waters, both commercially and recreationally.

Here's a simple challenge for those who want some real evidence. Go to the Southport sand pumping jetty in winter on a Friday or Saturday night. There, you'll find literally hundreds of our northern neighbours fishing for tailor. I must admit, these guys know how to fish. But, you check out how they fish. They all have at least 2 or 3 rods, a little hand drawn cart with their esky on it, a couple of blocks of pillies and that's it - they're set for the night.

When they're fishing, you watch what they do with the fish. Most of them will fill that esky well over the bag limit in the first place, some legal size some not, then cart it back down the jetty to the carpark, leaving their rod and gear behind with the other 17 dynasties of relatives to mind. Low and behold, a few minutes later, Wong Fu returns with an empty esky to start the process again.

Something tells me Wong Fu and his dynasties of relatives he has with him aren't eating all this fish themselves. Further more, of course our mate Wong Fu is only carting those fish down and unloading them into the car cause he doesn't want that hot night air to spoil the 40 fish in the esky. You don't have to be Einstein guys. Go check it out for yourselves - happens every year and there aint jack shit inspectors doing anything about it.

Ben

[aido]

Just watched report on ch 9, Brisbane extra

hmm, no wonder then i was dissapointed watching today
tonight on ch 7 for the report. thanks dad. gawd, some peoples dads....

[ba229]

This is great. we have our own little "Ausfish game showy type thing" :-)

But whatever makes fishing better for ALL of us (reco's and pro's) can only be good.

Nice to see a different slant on the "keep em' honest" efforts.

Have fun and happy hunting :-)

[Cheech]

Couple of things.

With the "just legal so should I keep it" posts, I like to think that the sizes are based on research so if as an example I keep a 50cm school mackeral that is just legal size (and provides 2 meals for my family) that I am not doing the wrong thing. Same goes for a 35cm Squire. Hard enough to get any, so what is wrong with keeping one that size? Before they increased the sizes, that would have been well over. But having said that, a 23 cm bream is a pretty small fish!! I threw a couple of 25ish Bream back on the weekend as they looked pretty sad compared to what we already had, but have no problem with people keeping them as that is the rules. Let's face it, so much energy has gone into the recent discussions about wanting people to just follow the rules, so let's not enforce more stringent rules, just try to enforce the current rules.

Oh yeah. Almost forgot my other point. With the money, I suggest you try to use it to best effect and not try to get maximum points and burn up the pool, but instead just try to get in the spirit of the event and try to use it to the max and do your best to not double up. ie if someone has already posted the same outlet then just suck it in and leave the money in the pool rather than burn some of it for yoursef. (unless it is at the end of the deal and there is some left)

Just my thoughts.

Cheech

[Gazza]

Very [smiley=2thumbsup.gif] worthy [smiley=2thumbsup.gif] project [smiley=2thumbsup.gif] Ausfish ,should be expanded with minimal effort #;) ;)

Has the FishingParty reached charity case status yet? #;D :D :D :D
:-X


p.s. Cheech ,i reckon the humble bream caters to anybody for small and tasty at 23cms ,in unlimited quantities ,so no excuse to take 'undersize' and i dare anybody to linefish 'em to extinction ,even at that low length.

A very good 'measurement' reference to other species 'sizelimits' justification, and enforcement. [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

[Maria]

Cheech,

I certainly don't infer that you MUST throw back a fish that's just over legal size. By all means, measure it and if it's over the legal size, then keep it if that is your wish.

I was just simple meaning to say that if it comes down to having to consider the correct method, and arguing over half a centimetre or so, it might not be worth taking the fish. Yes I understand that sometimes fish are hard to come across, even at that size, but the sometimes you get the days when you'll get some decent sized fish, and some ordinary sized fish.

Hope I didn't come across too greeny like, saying that you had to throw em all back unless they were HOOOOOOOGE.

Ben

[SeaHunt]

Hey Ben ,
I think its Phuck Noh , not Wong Fu. ;D
I think you have gone a bit too far North.

[Maria]

Lol, yeah SeaHunt....true that. ;D

Ben

[Fitzy]

Fooksy,
I stand corrected. Thanks for the heads up. Certificate on wall is now in several pieces. (appologies Steve, you were correct)

Folks I know some mighty good projects that $1000 could really help out.

Let's go find us some lawbreakers!

Fitzy..

PS- Steve wont even tell me who the sponsor is. Doh!!!

[Maria]

Bloody oath...will be down at the local establishments in question this weekend to wreak havoc. ;D

Ben

[imported_admin]

Steve
what if 10 people get fish from the same shop

Then that shop would be reported to the DPI 10 times and 10 times the amount spent on the undersize fish (Up to $100 for each report) would be donated to charity).

One would then assume that the DPI would then take some action against the shop owners.

[imported_admin]

BTW - when refering to undersize fish it is meant in the context of any species protected under the fisheries regulations. This covers Fish (Saltwater & Freshwater), Sandcrabs, Mudcrabs, Lobsters, Moreton Bay Bugs, etc.

[propdinger]

lets hope this puts a boot up some of the people who do the wrong thing, if you dont do anything wrong you have nothing to worry about is my motto [smiley=whip.gif]
i wont keep a fish that is just near legal thats just me. ;D

good luck
jeff

[GES]

The last time I looked, the regulations stated that it is an offence to # #"BE IN POSSESSION" # #of undersized fish.
Any shop owner trying to use the excuse that they bought the fish in a bin lot, is still commiting an offence by having undersized fish in possession.
If they were prosecuted for that offence, with no excuse accepted, then I'm sure that the shop owners will become very vigilant about what they buy and offer for sale.
The more retailers that are prosecuted, the higher the fines will go.
My bet is that the under sized fish have been purchased illegally from recreational fishers and then mixed in with legal fish, that they already have a legal purchase receipt for, from a commercial wholesale outlet.
There is no way of proving which is which...except that the undersized ones are obviousley the illegally bought ones.
Having undersized fish in your possession (regardless of where they came from) is prime face evidence which is pretty near indefensible in court.
DPI/QB&FP has no leg to stand on if they aren't prosecuting these people. It is a derilection of their duty.
We just need a bit of a public outcry to put a political face on it.
This "reward scheme" should encourage them to take notice and respond.... #or it will drive the illegal sales #underground for a while.
We need to resurect this little outcry again in a few months to keep the shop keepers honest and the department up to the job.
Nothing like a bit of political embarrassment to make the department do its job.

GES

[gif]

Good Post above

Technically, if you buy these fish and hand them in - YOU are in breach of the law because you were In Posession.

In fact Department Officers threatened me and apparently the Channel 9 reporter with this charge. Such fools. First no Judge would convict. Second can you imagine the negative PR generated by doing so! It would get National Prime time TV I bet.

Especially after this Charity Award stuff.

My contribution to the cause:
If anyone gets charged while buying and reporting small fish ( or threatened by Officers) make sure you tell us all. I will run the Court Case for you for free and pay the fine if I lose the case.

Gary

[Fitzy]

Good Post above

Technically, if you buy these fish and hand them in #- YOU are in breach of the law because you were In Posession.

In fact Department Officers threatened me and apparently the Channel 9 reporter with this charge. # Such fools. # First no Judge would convict. #Second can you imagine the negative PR generated by doing so! #It would get National Prime time TV I bet.

Especially after this Charity Award stuff.

My contribution to the cause:
If anyone gets charged while buying and reporting small fish ( or threatened by Officers) # make sure you tell us all. # # I will run the Court Case for you for free and pay the fine if I lose the case.

Gary
Great work & a great offer Gary.

Garry

[Russman67]

Hey, when I lived in NSW there were several occasions where major supermarkets had Bream and whiting in particular that you'd only be able to put through the mincer and make fish cakes out of because once the heads were gone there would have been no way you could have taken a fillet. Can't say I have seen it as bad in QLD though ;D

[sir_noelus]

I made a comment about standardising fish sizes and names. Re 35cm whiting down south, that size as an example could only apply to King George. I have only once caught a sand whiting that would reach that size. The legal size would be therefore be different for sand whiting compared to King George. Then it would not affect you guys up north who don't have access to the bigger species. I agree with Gary, Anybody charging someone with purchasing undersize fish for evidence of illegal fishing would finish up with a lot of custard (or something else) on their face before it was thrown out of court. That would be the sickest thing. Noel

[Kerry]

In fact Department Officers threatened me and apparently the Channel 9 reporter with this charge.

Might be worthwhile trying, could get 2 birds with the one stone, now would department officers actually be that stupid ;D (ok nobody has to answer this, just whistle)

Cheers, Kerry.

[Gazza]

Well it's actually 'encouraging' ::) to see Department Officiers are willing to at least charge
S-O-M-E-B-O-D-Y :o :o :o

Just need to adjust their gun sights a little ,may even hit a 'target' or 3 ....

[bugman]

Only a short heads up,

Those in Brisbane (and surrounds) can hear Gary and the Hon Henry Palaszczuk on ABC Radio this afternoon on the drive program. 612 on the AM dial

I think the interviews are going to air just after the 5:00pm news.

Peter Gooch is filling in for Spencer Howsen on air at the moment but you may be able to get a transcript later here:

http://www.abc.net.au/brisbane/drive/

Radio's website is not controlled by news so don't hit me with any hassles about the site ;D

Bugman

[Lucky_Phill]

Thanks for that Brett. Caught the chat on 612 with Gary and Henry.

Gary come across as a very accomplished speaker and knowledgable person. Henry hinted at things to come, probably more B & F inspectors, from the State Budget ?

Saw a old mag today, dated 1979, with fish species and sizes in. Basically been that size til recently. No changes in almost 30 yrs.

Even had an add, for " reliable offshore " Chrysler Motors. DOH !

Back to the Gary & Henry Show, I hear that they are to have a Meeting next week. Let's hope the Govt don't ( actually DO ) steal any more of Gary's ( and Nuggets ) ideas. :-X ;D

Phill

[rickraider]

ok what about bait shops who sell mullet undersize for bait never had a receit.

[gif]

... better keep a receipt.

Same technical hitch goes for Barrier Reef cruise boats - who served coral reef fish for lunch ( obviously cleaned and filleted) - though Fisheries saw this and tidied it up.
Gary

[bugman]

GDay all,

I've put Gary's and Henry's interview on the web.

For those interested in an overview of the current situation it's not a bad listen.

Windows
http://www.abc.net.au/news/features/audio/20040528_fish.asx

Real Media
http://www.abc.net.au/news/features/audio/20040528_fish.ram

Bugman

[Lucky_Phill]

Brett,

Oh yeah ! you can " edit " a radio chat from 3 days ago, but it takes over 12 mths to edit 45 minutes of Fraser Island Fishing Video footage !! >:(

;D ;D ;D

Thought that would wake you up !

Yes, Yes I know, you are a busy man. Have you noticed I haven't invited you fishing lately. I'm a busy man. !! ;) ;D :P

Cheers Phill

[agnes_jack]

Rickraider
I was not aware that there is a size limit on mullet? ???

Regards, Tony

[bugman]

Fine just fine !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's only been 12 months - what's the issue !!!!!!!!!!!

I was wondering why I haven't got a phonecall for a while.

Now I know - well just fine !!!!!!!!!'

Dummy reaches maximum velocity here ->

[SeaHunt]

DPI site rules say Sea Mullet - 30 cm no limit , Jack.
No mention of any other Mullet unless they rate a mention in the fine print somewhere.. Is a Poddy a baby Sea Mullet or are we talking different species? ???
http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/fishweb/11416.html#limits

[agnes_jack]

Sea hunt
I think we must be talking 2 different species. The sea mullet may refer to ..
diamond scale mullet. It has always been legal to keep poddy mullet as bait.
Unless I am missing something? Maybe someone can clarify the differences.

Regards, Tony

[sir_noelus]

In NSW we can trap poddy's for bate OK. I understand the limit is 20 in posession and they must be under 150mm long. At least I think that's right. Recently at Tuross NSW south coast, at the boat ramp was a volunteer fishing inspector. He saw a couple of what I call sea mullet 5 yr old grandaughter caught while chasing gars. He used his folder info for identification and it showed them as 'Bull Mullet' which was new to me. He did not say anything about their legal size but they were just under 300. If the inspector had to look them up, and they are very common there, what hope have we all got? NoelNoel

[dasher]

If you check it out on this site theres alot of different mullet around and not too easy to ID.

http://www.fishbase.org/search.cfm

The size limit came in on the 13th of dec with the other new regs but calling it sea mullet is going to confuse a lot people. ??? ::)

[rickraider]

agnes. poddy mullet are just juviniles [you know what i mean}fisheries usually fine you for it. it is up to you to prove what species of mullet you have .some thing to do with amount of spines or scales.we were taught no such species as a poddy mullet. got photos of your crazy cat yet?

[rickraider]

maybe someone from qld fisheries can give us some info without all the jargon. ??? :) :)

[rickraider]

agnes. just a thought you arent selling undersize mullet are you . ??? :-X ;D ;D

[gif]

So Steve

Lots of chat here - but has there been any Action? Anyone made a claim yet?

Guys
- has anyone gone out looking yet? Its time to stop chating and go indoor fishing this weekend! This is the time to strike.

Gary

[SeaHunt]

Hi Garry,
I heard you were having a meeting with minister Henry ? Has that happened yet.?

[gif]

Yep

Nugget and I went in on Wednesday - Sounds basically like he is a guy who listens, and seems quite knowledgable.

There are some things in the pipeline ( sometimes a b long pipeline) - that I should leave to him to announce.

Undersize fish, crabs with carapace removed kids fishing and enforcement are all moving in the right direction. We still disagree on fish measurement procedures.

He asked to talk again in a month - so thats a real positive sign.

Trust me - the biggest contribution you can make to Rec Fishing and you kids is to take up the Ausfish Charity offer and find some undersized fish this weekend. Do it with a mate - just go and check 3 stores between you.

Gary

[MY-TopEnder]

Hey Gary,

Sunnybank seems to have mildly cleaned up their act but i'm going to Newfarm today, and to Capalaba tomorrow so i'll have a look there.

[SeaHunt]

Hi Gary ,
There was an excellent idea posted on this web site (not by me), which I thought would go a long way towards stopping the sale of under sized fish.
It would basically require Henry to legislate that all shops that sold whole fish or crabs would have to display a fish measurement chart showing minium sizes for the different species they sold.
The DPI guys could design a plastic chart that the customers could hold their, just purchased fish up against, and obviously voice their concerns.
This would be a cheap solution for all concerned.
The shop owners could be given a few when they get their lisence. (I am assuming these shops need a lisence to sell fish).
IT would be largely regulated by the public, so no need for DPI inspectors to raid fish shops, and would also go a long way towards educating the casual fisherman who is not up with the latest regulations, because they propbably buy fish occasionally.
If something like this was not mentioned in your meeting, I wonder if it could be at your next meeting.
Just a thought. :)

[gif]

Nice idea Seahunt

I see it as life size ( no need for a ruler)
#- and plastic coated
- and attractive so it is a positive - stores will like to show it

- obviously only with a few most common species # Any ideas which ones? # Bream , Tailor #- what else for this state wide poster?

Gary

[Gazza]

Hi Gary , 10 is always a good number #;)

(Below the fish-pics) possibly add a simple summary bargraph, with about 1cm. lettering
e.g across the top 5,10,15....60?
down the leftside , list of 'common' fish , pick 10

Along-side the fish name, have a bar-graph, along to it's min.length (above) , with a big red-dot on that particular fish legal bagsize......5,10,20,etc

This would maybe give a bit of 'education' , for when/if they go out and catch their own ,oneday. #;)
(kids would memorise it easily) #8)

[SeaHunt]

Hi Gary,
Whether they like to show it or not, they should be made to show it, only reason they would not like to display it is if they are dodgey.
No need to go overboaard with the number of fish species, if you check out the shops , most of them usually ony have about 7 or 8 different species whole.
Bream, whiting , snapper , sweet lip, tailor, mullet + a few of the reef fish species should do.
:)

[MY-TopEnder]

Anyone got any issues with me doing some simple designs?

[gif]

Go for it - and I could take it in to my meeting on Friday Gary

[SeaHunt]

Knock yourself out TopEnder, but you know if they do adopt the idea, they would not consider what you have designed because it didn't cost $10,000 and wasn't designed by arty farty guru. :D :D
Unless you're one of course. :P

[MY-TopEnder]

hahaha good point, we all know how state government works. But i'll knock something up in the next day or so.

[Brooksy]

I don't know if this was mentioned at the start of this thread but people should take care with aquacultured fish. Fish produced under a valid aquaculture permit may be sold under the min. legal length. I beleive that product needs to be labeled to this effect and include the Aq. permit no.


Steve

[NQCairns]

I don't know if this was mentioned at the start of this thread but people should take care with aquacultured fish. Fish produced under a valid aquaculture permit may be sold under the min. legal length. I beleive that product needs to be labeled to this effect and include the Aq. permit no.


Well then all aquaculture grown fish should have the left pectorals clipped and the wild pro caught should have the right clipped before leaving the farm. #::) ::) what a crock. >:( and recfishos should clip the anal fin or they could police the fishery!!

[Fitzy]

I don't know if this was mentioned at the start of this thread but people should take care with aquacultured fish. Fish produced under a valid aquaculture permit may be sold under the min. legal length. I beleive that product needs to be labeled to this effect and include the Aq. permit no.


Steve
G'Day Steve,
Good point. Could that also apply to imported fish as well?

Do you happen to know the complete list of species aquacultured in Oz? Might help eliminate some problem down the track.

Cheers,

Fitz..

[SeaHunt]

Lets not get carried away, we are only interested in putting the common Australian species on this thing, that are usually sold whole.ie ... Bream , Whiting , Snapper , crabs. :P

[Jeremy]

I have not been following this closely, but am I right in thinking there is a suggestion that people buying fish hold them up against a chart of some kind to determine if they are legal size or not.

Is someone buying a fish going to ask the seller to give them the cold, slimey fish to hold against some chart on the wall, so they can measure it? Is any fishmonger going to put a chart on their wall which will get smelly and slimey so people can determine whether what they are selling is legal? I think not on both counts.

Hope I am wrong here, but if this is the case, I think it is back to the drawing board.

For all the discussion on this thread, has anyone found any shops selling undersize fish?

Cheers,

Jeremy

[SeaHunt]

They did originally Jeremy, and it was on Brisbane extra on channel 9, they took them to DPI etc., and they WERE undersize , and not by a couple of mm either.
I think after the publicity they might have cleaned up their act.
The fishmonger will be REQUIRED to display the chart, laminated of course, so they can clean the slime off it when they are cleaning the slime off everthing else.
If you look at a fish and then the chart most people would be able to judge if the fish was undersized. I mean, what shop would have a chart there and beside it, a heap of undersized bream. #???
It is a visual thing and meant to be a deterrant.

Obviosly you can't hold any fish in your hand, that you have not already bought.
And some people would hold the fish up to the chart (I know I would).
And if you are scared of holding a cold slimey fish, you are going to have trouble cooking it when you get home. # :P

[Jeremy]

I can certainly see the merits of this as a deterrent, but back to the chart idea, even I don't want to touch cold slimey fish in the seafood shop as I then have to find something (my pants?) to wipe my hands clean on afterwards.

Jeremy

[Fitzy]

Lets not get carried away, we are only interested in putting the common Australian species on this thing, that are usually sold whole.ie ... Bream , Whiting , Snapper , crabs. :P
I dont think any of the species you noted are unique to Qld or even Oz. Could well be imported from OS or interstate where there are different regs. This, i think, could make them legal to sell here. I dont really know but its a fair question to ask. Would hate to see someone get embarrassed for making an incorrect assumtion.

fitzy..

[SeaHunt]

Its alright Fitzy , I make em all the time .. ;D
Usually big enough to admit it too ::)
But seriously Qld has already got the smallest or equally smallest legal size for bream and whiting, Never heard of them being farmed (could be wrong).
And who is going to bother to import frozen bream and whiting into Australia. ???

[MY-TopEnder]

Well i'm happy to report back that on a visit to the previously mentioned store in Sunnybank, i can say that every fish they had on display was of a legal size.

Although i think the lady recognized me... she seemed pretty edgy while i was in the store.

[GES]

Keep going back there MY-TopEnder, it'll keep the bastards honest. ;D ;D

GES

[MY-TopEnder]

oh yeah i live 2 mins down the road so if i'm up there doing the shopping or getting a feed or buying more squidgies at K-Mart then i'll make a point of going in there to have a looksie... the last couple of times now things have been legit.

Its good to see.

I am working on the poster, i'll put a link up when i get it sorted.

[Sean]

Is this offer Aust wide? or limited to Queensland, For all the talk we do here it doesn't seem like many people are actually making an effort to look. There are more suburbs in Brisbane than just Sunnybank. Surely for the how ever many members there are on this site they don't all live in Sunnybank. Sorry if I have tread on some toes here, but each day I click on this thread hoping to see someone has been caught, only to find everyone skirting around the real issue. I suggest if anyone looks anywhere, post it here, so we can at least see what areas have been doing well,(no undersized fish) and have been 'inspected'.
Are 'trawl whiting' under some special rule as whenever you see these fish they are the size of pillies, Is this Illegal??

[imported_admin]

Sean

Yes this is for all of Queensland only.

It would appear with all the press this issue has received, TV, Radio, Internet, Etc, that it would be pretty foolish for any shop to be selling undersize fish or crabs.

If no one is caught out by the time the offer expires we will probably run it again in a few months to, as they say, "Keep the bastards honest"

[Sean]

If I'm up that way I'll have a squiz in a few shops.....can I ask why only QLD? Well, apart from the fact that QLD is miles ahead of all the other states as far as most things go......Building, Fishing, State Of origin..you know, all the important stuff. Go the QUEENSLANDERS!

[blaze]

well bit off the subject sean, I live in the farnowwest of tassie
20 K FROM SOME OF THE CLEANEST AIR IN THE WORLD at cape grim research station, unpoluted water ways, leave car unlocked on over nighters, plenty of fish (lots of wind and rain at the moment), that also gives us the most substainable farming
you aint got that
cheers
blaze

[SeaHunt]

No we havn't got that Blaze, and we are not prepared to spend 9 months of the year freezing our balls off to get it either. :P

[blaze]

hi seahunt
only bad for 3, but that hasnt stop a heap of qslanders moving down
cheers
blaze

[Sean]

You tell him blaze ;D ;D ;D Go the Queenslanders!!!!P.S where can you leave your car unlocked again. ;D ;)


















.

[SeaHunt]

You tell him seahunt ;D ;D ;D Go the Queenslanders!!!!P.S where can you leave your car unlocked again. ;D ;)

Leave the ute unlocked anywhere mate, as long as the pitbull is on the back.. ;D ;D
















.

[blaze]

As i understand it the retailer have cleaned up there game in queensland but has there been any infringement notices issued because of this generous offer Steve (ausfish) maybe a bit of an update
cheers
blaze

[Brett_Hoskin]

Its alright Fitzy , I make em all the time .. # ;D
Usually big enough to admit it too # ::)
But seriously Qld has already got the smallest or equally smallest legal size for bream and whiting, Never heard of them being farmed (could be wrong).
And who is going to bother to import frozen bream and whiting into Australia. # ???


I brought this subject up with NSW fisheries 6 or 8 years ago and was told that New Zealand supply a lot of bream that are smaller than that which is allowed to be caught in NSW.

[Burley_Boy]

Yu guys have given me a bit of info here.
When I enquired 6 months ago about the whiting and flatheat on offer at one of the most popular Gold Coast outlets I was told that the size limits don't apply to pro fishermen because they get all sorts of fish in the nets and they are dead by the time they hit the deck...
After all this are you telling me that the rec angler sizes that apply to us also applies to the pro fishermen in Bream Whiting Flathead and Snapper!!!
If thats the case I've got the proverbial shits with my local shop.

Please confirm before I strangle them!

[bugman]

Confirmed !!!!!

[gif]

Double confirmed

- its both their obligation and their job to know the law.

Some of you may have heard me say - the poor shop buys a bulk load may get some small ones. All I meant by that is that it takes time and opportunity to check the whole batch. And I bet some have got stuck with small ones at the bottom (like when I last bought strawberries).

But there in NO excuse for not knowing the law - if you are in the fish business.

Interstate fish? Well for Bream we have the smallest size regs in Australia - so if its illegal here its illegal anywhere.

Gary

[gif]

There is an article on this topic in Qld Fishing Monthly - due out this week.

I have not read the final version myself ...

Gary

[Chrisso]

Great job mate for blowing the whistle on such a morally incensing practice. :)

[gif]

Hi Steve

Well its now a month later - this all started on 24 May.

Have there been any "claims".

If there has been none then what does that say about us?

Gary

[jockey]

that we succeeded?

[gif]

Touche !

... well I hope so Jockey I hope so


Gary

[imported_admin]

No claims made. After this received so much attention from the media and TV I would have been amazed if any commercial operation would be stupid enough to have undersize fish or crabs.

That said, I did read a report in the Courier Mail that the DPI did a check of 216 outlets. Strangley enough after all teh publicity this issue has had they found 31 undersized fish. It did not mention if they checked crabs.

Even more suprising was that the article said that fisheries issued 10 cautions and would three breach reports. It would appear that no one is to be charged for having the undersize fish.

It would have been nice to see fisheries doing their job before this issue was raised here and $1000.00 had to be put up to get them into gear. Would of been interesting to see how many undersized fish would have been found then.

Was interesting to see the spin they put on the article in the paper, it claimed they checked about 28,000 fish and 31 were undersized. This they then followed with stating that there is a compliance rate of 99.9 percent.

The word "about" would mean to me that they didn't check anywhere near that amount, maybe they did a visual on "about" that many. I would doubt it if they could produce records for the measurements recorded on 28,000 fish.

Maybe they only measured say 32 fish and 31 were undersize, this would then give them a 99.9 percent non compliance rate. Just depends on whos side you are writing the story for and the figures can be adjusted however you like.

Anyway, hopefuly the DPI will do the job that we as tax payers pay them to do and we do not have to rely on someone putting up $1000.00 for charity to stir up the media and in return get the commercial sector to comply.

[CHRIS_aka_GWH]

the "on display" bit still astounds me - its "backroom" business that has always been the biggest problem in fisheries but well done steve & co

[gif]

Thanks for all your work Steve


There is still doubt in my mind – especially because Fisheries officers are not measuring a fork tail ( eg Bream) with the tail in its natural state - rather they are pulling the tail forks together.

To my reading of the Regulations this is 100% crystal clear wrong. And it gives us a smaller catch size by 1-2 cm.

So I suppose it was much easier to report 99.9% - especially if you use a faulty measurement method!

I am pursuing the matter ...


Gary

[jockey]

99.9% compliance rate because they only faound a few undersize fish. This doesn't mean that 99.9% of stores comply, it just means that 999 out of every 1000 fish are oversize. In reality it could be closer to 0% compliance if every store had some undersize fish.

Let's stop the sale of undersize fish to the general public first. This is much easier to deal with. If someone is dodgy enough to go to the backroom to buy goods then they're going to be a lot harder to catch, and it's not our place to try to get involved from that end.