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jaybee
13-07-2004, 11:50 AM
Last Update: Wednesday, July 7, 2004. 3:49pm (AEST)

There is a dreadful, silent death playing out on our doorstep - the demise of a species.
The grey nurse shark has been reduced to a potentially unsustainable number.
It is estimated as few as 300 grey nurse sharks remain in pockets up and down the eastern seaboard.
Although it seems time for urgent action it is not that simple, with a dispute erupting over fishing and shark breeding grounds.
According to the influential lobby group Nature Conservation Council, the only way is to create no-fishing zones off the coast to allow the grey nurse population to recover.
But the idea has enraged fishermen, already facing restrictions on their catches and besides they say they do not kill grey nurse sharks.
Dive charter operator Wayne Smith says the future of the grey nurse species hangs in the balance.
For Mr Smith a dive boat operator working out of Bateman's Bay, sharks are a big part of his business.
Each year, thousands of divers come from all around the world hoping he'll help them swim amongst these monsters of the deep.
"The grey nurse is a critical area. I can't explain that to the community enough," Mr Smith said.
"It's reached a point where it can't go any further.
"If we don't do something now you've just dedicated a species to extinction - that's it."
Megan Bannerman from the Nature Conservation Council believes recreational fishing is responsible for the demise of the grey nurse.
"Simple - because there are so few sharks divers practically know them all by name," Ms Kessler said.
"In the past dive surveys have looked at sharks and they've actually seen hooks in the sharks mouths.
"Two-thirds of the population were actually hooked and 90 per cent of those hooks were from recreational fishing."
Armed with this information, the Nature Conservation Council has put forward a radical plan to ban fishing for 1.5 kilometres around key grey nurse habitats, including Montague Island and the Tollgate islands on the NSW south coast.
On the face of it, saving an endangered shark species in the year 2004 should not be all that difficult.
One would simply put up fishing exclusion zones where the sharks live and breed. The problem is, those same places provide a livelihood for many, many fishermen.
As a result, a maritime range war is brewing.
Professional fisherman John Davis said it makes him furious to hear conservationists say, "Lock this island off?"
"How can they sit there and tell us that we can't fish somewhere where we've fished for the last 30 years?" Mr Davis said.
Mr Davis is a commercial fisherman based in the town of Narooma.
The fishermen say that if those exclusion zones were brought in, then many of them would go broke.
But divers heading to a grey nose colony on the eastern side of the Tollgate Islands see the population dwindling and those they do see are often in terrible shape, courtesy of fish hooks and fishermen.
"We have things such as the shark's mouths being split right back to the gill slits through stainless steel tracers that have been caught inside the shark's mouth," Mr Smith said.
"As it's trying to break away it's just torn itself basically like a human, all the way down to its shoulder blades."
For Mr Smith there is only one answer - a fishing exclusion zone around the Tollgate Islands and Montague to the south.
"I don't understand why the fishermen are so upset," Mr Smith said.
"One lousy kilometre. That's all we want. We're not asking for everything. Maybe if we are lucky, 100 or 150 fishermen use this area a year.
Is it worth losing a species over that, over a pastime, over a piss up on the ocean? I don't think so."
But not everyone agrees with this. Indeed, a few miles south is a very different point of view altogether.
John Davis said he would be finished if he could not fish for 1.5 kilometres around the island.
Montague Island is literally in his backyard and any plan to ban fishing here would hit him hard.
Today he is two miles offshore, fishing outside the proposed exclusion zone, trying to catch gummy sharks.
But 600 hooks on, he has caught just two wobbegongs and he throws them back.
Mr Davis said he has not hooked a grey nurse shark in the last five seasons.
"I've never, never caught a shark and I've been live bait fishing.
"Anywhere around the island, I've never ever caught a grey nurse shark," Mr Davis said.
He says he cannot see how excluding the island is going to help the species.
John Davis is not the only one concerned. Narooma has a healthy charter fishing industry and the charter men are set for a fight.
Indeed, the proposal has so incensed the fiercely independent locals in Narooma, both charter and commercial fishermen have come together to fight the proposal.
Charter fisherman Darryl Stuart said any exclusion could have a devastating effect on his industry.
"99 per cent of our work, is done around Montague Island.
"It's the area that has the most number of reefs in the whole sort of six mile range, so we fish around the edge of the reefs and everything and if we close down from doing that, that's the end of it - we just can't operate from this area anymore," Mr Stuart said.
"I don't know where they're getting their research from. Where can they tell us that they are 1.5 kilometres from the island?
"We only see them in one very small, 100 metre area, so we haven't seen them anywhere else.
"None have been caught anywhere, so what research, you know?"
But Megan Kessler said the CSIRO and NSW Fisheries did the research.
She said they've tracked the sharks and shown that they move about 1.3 kilometres out from these critical habitat areas.
She said the science is strong.
"That's been done in two different studies, they've shown those similar numbers."
However the fishermen are concerned to dispel claims that charter operators allow their clients to catch grey nurse sharks.
Mr Stuart said you can ask every single operator and no one has ever hooked a grey nurse shark.
No one doubts the shark is in danger, the question is - could its survival destroy an industry or perhaps a town?
John Davis said the exclusion would send him out of business.
"If the proposal is to stop us fishing there, my livelihood's finished, I've gotta look for work," Mr Davis said.
Mr Smith has a strong message for the fisherman.
"I'm saying to the fishermen, 'Get it together'. 'Start thinking about someone else besides yourself for a moment.'
"I know life is tough, but the reality this is the end of a species.
"I know life is tough, but the reality this is the end of a species.
"If you don't have the guts and fortitude to put up, then you deserve to go broke because there will be nothing left in the next 40 to 50 years."

baldyhead
13-07-2004, 12:22 PM
The proposal to exclude the fishers from these areas ( if it goes ahead) should also extend to the dive industry.
What's to say that these sharks are not moving away to other areas to get away from the intrusive divers in their habitat?

MTpockets
13-07-2004, 12:37 PM
I think the damage was done many years ago, before they protected the grey nurse. They were targetted around Mackay and Townsville when I was a kid in the 60's and 70's.
We used to catch up to 30 per night, release the ones over 3 foot, and eat the 3 footers. I think the damage (IF ANY WAS CAUSED BY REC FISHERS) was done long ago.
Just my opinion.
cheers
Les

vertico
13-07-2004, 01:11 PM
We used to catch them in our crab dillies in the bay around the darcy light many years ago

Chrisso
13-07-2004, 03:29 PM
Hey Vertico that's a new one, but I am familiar with the way my dad and his mates have caught wobblygongs in crab pots. :)

Gazza
13-07-2004, 05:41 PM
Seems to me.....
The 1st. time Divers wanted these spots to themselves ,there was 500 quoted #:o

Now a year or so later ,they can only count 300 #:o :o

If divers aren't removed soon from these areas soon
I'll be hearing the spruikers quoting 100 in a year or so #:o :o :o

SeaHunt
14-07-2004, 08:01 AM
There is a dreadful, silent death playing out on our doorstep - the demise of a species. Bit overly dramatic I would have thought. We lose dozens of species every year, some with mans help some through natural processes.
Species have been dying out and evolving since life began on this planet, and regardless of human efforts, this will continue, and will include ourselves.
Major events in the earths history have wiped out up to 95 % of all species on the planet , and this will happen again, just probably not in our life times.

Some species are vunerable , usually because they have over specialised , and it does not take much to push them over the edge. If Grey Nurses were being heavily targeted by fisherman , making them a no take species could probably save them, but this is not the case, stopping all fishing where they live will not save them. The scientists do not really know why they are disappearing, and may never know.
Like the sabre tooth tiger, the giant kangeroo and a million other species it could just be that their time is up.
If we had nothing to do with a species demise in the first place, then we are interfering in the natual order of things by trying to save it, just as much as if we were to wipe out a species. # :P

jockey
14-07-2004, 08:33 AM
They are dying out because we killed them all. We killed most of them in the 70's until they were protected, but that wasn't quite enough to stop them being killed. There is nothing natural about their demise.

I think the current rate of extinction is about 100 times the 'natural' level. No-one knows for sure how quickly animals died out in previous extinction events. The current rate could well be the highest ever.

where_is_dave
14-07-2004, 09:32 AM
"In the past dive surveys have looked at sharks and they've actually seen hooks in the sharks mouths.
"Two-thirds of the population were actually hooked and 90 per cent of those hooks were from recreational fishing."

and we know this how...???

For Mr Smith a dive boat operator working out of Bateman's Bay, sharks are a big part of his business. - doesn't this say it all, if the dive industry is sooo concerned about the survival of the species I'm sure they would support the exclusion of divers and dive boats as well!!!

kc
14-07-2004, 09:45 AM
Put "Mr Smiths" livelihood on the line and ban home invaders as well as fishers & see how he burrs up!! Maybe there are other ways. Ban wire trace maybe if this is an issue. Val taylor and her hero mates did more damage to the long term viability of Grey Nurse sharks shooting the shit out of them in the 70's than rec fishos ever have or will. The dive industry position is typical of so much of the tourism industry towards rec fishing throughout the marine environment. It's always about them!! If this bloke was fair dinkum he would be the first to act by voluntarily stop annoying the poor bloody things and take his dive business elsewhere. The he could take the high moral ground. As it stands he is just another hypocrit pushing his own agenda at someone elses expense.

KC

SeaHunt
14-07-2004, 09:48 AM
Jockey , we kill lots of things , lots of species a lot more targeted than grey nurse sharks ever were and they survive, and sometimes flourish.
Like I said they must have been vunerable to begin with, even if only because they did not have a large enough habitat range.
Their numbers will recover or they wont, regardless of recreational fishing.

Burley_Boy
14-07-2004, 07:20 PM
So let me hear about hooks in fish in general. I've heard that a hook lost in a fish will dissappear in a few days so I've been inclined to cut the line rather than turn it into a "reef fish", but whats the facts?

Sportfish_5
20-07-2004, 10:26 PM
Well Well Well. Seems I have heard all this before somewhere. As I said when we lost our grounds here in SEQ, any decision to set up exclusion zones should include both req,comm fishos as well as divers. One out all bloody out or it is a farce !

lordy
21-07-2004, 06:46 AM
I was watching the show (were the story came from) with some non-fishing relatives and they were put off by the negative attitude of the pro/rec fishos in the show. I can see their point, here is something that needs to be done, won't take up much coastline, but is unfortunately going to hurt a small number of people.

I think problem with continually objecting to any kind of restriction/marine park is it makes us fishos look like heartless, greedy, selfish, out-of-touch bastards to the rest of the community. It’s not true.

I think if fishos want to be taken seriously we have to accept some of these type of decisions. It shows we are not without compassion or reason and can look beyond our own needs. This means when we do stand up and make a fight about something, just maybe there is a very good reason and we aren't being obstinate for the point of being obstinate.

In this case though, I’m with the one-out all-out lobby. If the Grey Nurses are that endangered it should be a scientific research/marine park only.

gunna
21-07-2004, 10:26 AM
In this day and age there is no excuse for us to let any species become extinct. Everything possible should be done to ensure the existence of these sharks. That clearly means shut the area down totally. NOBODY should go near them until we see some improvement in numbers. It is incredibly hypocritical of the divers to want to continue to dive there if the fishos are gone.

mackmauler
21-07-2004, 10:31 AM
not to mention shark nets and drumlines within a few km of closed areas ??? :o

SeaHunt
21-07-2004, 10:58 AM
In this day and age there is no excuse for us to let any species become extinct.

I don't see the point of going to great expense or effort in trying to save every species on the planet, especially if its demise has nothing to do with man.
As I said before this has been going on since the beginning of life on this planet and playing God by trying to save an otherwise doomed species is just as irresponsible as wipeing one out.
Natures way has always been survival of the fittest, those species that can adapt survive a long time , like the crocodile, others come and go in a short period of time , like say the sabre tooth tiger, because they over specialise or/and cannot adapt when the environment changes.

Having said that I do believe we should take all reasonable steps to ensure the survival of the Grey Nurse because we are largely responsible for their low numbers . A lot of trigger happy DIVERS blew most of them away in the early 70's with power heads on their spear guns.
Ironically they are now the only #ones allowed in the protected zones. This could be why the sharks have not returned , they are still fearful of divers. # #:P

CHRIS_aka_GWH
21-07-2004, 11:25 AM
It is estimated as few as 300 grey nurse sharks remain in pockets up and down the eastern seaboard.


"It is estimated as few as 300 grey nurse sharks remain in known pockets up and down the eastern seaboard."

takes a different context when you do that. Divers & scientists see less than 1 percent of the coffee rock structure on the eastern seaboard.

I believe the CAUSE is worthwhile,

I DOUBT the legitimacy of the science when they make claims I know to be false (I too have encountered nurse in the bay along the Amity Wall & on the sandy beaches of straddie) - I think GN are more widespread & travelled than documented

I don't trust the MOTIVATION of most dive operators who drop a dozen divers up to six times a day on a "breeding" ground then get concerned about their dwindling numbers - not even porn stars are used to crowds like that ! #;D

chris

SeaHunt
21-07-2004, 01:03 PM
Actually I caught a bit of a doco on the tube at the weekend, and that Ben Cropp tool was diving with some people off some remote rocky Island and the place was swarming with Grey Nurse Sharks, the guy said that there were about 140 there the previous week and good old Ben even counted about 90 on his dive. Not sure where it was but I got the impression it was off Southern NSW or Victoria. So 140 all in one place and only 300 all up , can't see it. :P

It wasn't an old doco either, couple of years at most.

CHRIS_aka_GWH
21-07-2004, 01:17 PM
mr cropp dived on our grey nurse off flatrock recently too - a good mate of mine put him on the spot - lights, cameras action - great stuff to encourage breeding, hey.

My mate has since quit that operation - not too happy with the way they do things - its all about making dollars.

chris