Fish farm in Morton Bay

[GES]

I believe that Sun Aqua's application for a fish farm to be established over a fairly big area in Morton Bay comes up for Government decision soon.
How could any Government decide to allow THAT in a Marine National Park ?
They have closed areas to fishing, put in go slow areas to protect turtles and duging, GNS protected areas, rules for this rules for that, and big fines for all of it ... all to protect the bay ... and then there's a chance they'll allow an environmental disaster like a fish farm to go ahead.
Apart from a few labourers jobs, there's not much in it for Brisbaneites either, as far as I can see.
Our bay is just the gravel pit that someone else makes a big profit out of and all we get is the area of the farm closed to public use, the polution problems from the intensive farming and fish diseases in our water to decimate our wild fisherey.
What does everyone else think or am I just being paranoid ?

GES

[Hutcho]

I don't think you're being paranoid at all. The fish farm idea is a joke, and a total slap in the face to the people of SE Qld and especially those who use the bay. The Govt has got to get it's priorities right and not be so greedy to be always looking to make cash. For them to even consider the fish farm, on top of the regulations that they have put in place over the last 6 months or so is just disgraceful. I hope it doesn't go through.

Hutcho

[SeaHunt]

I think it's a good idea, those net holding walls they have around them are only about 3ft high , I could easily cast over them. Seems like a really good place to fish in the middle of the night.
If you have had an ordinary day you could drop in there on the way home , probably bag out in 10 minutes. # ::) # #::)

[dazza]

hi ges,
this one has been on the agenda for awhile now. as you say it is getting close to decision time.
wouldn't trust old smilin' pete beattie on this one. he says they will have to meet very stringent guidelines to satisfy the epa. the state development dept also have their finger in the pie, and who knows how much they have invested in this ??? ???.
the current state government isn't exactly top of the class when it comes to transparency.

the whole joint will be a big bloody green zone in 5 to 10 years anyway.
hey that makes sence- keep pumping raw sewage and crap into the bay, stick in a poluting fish farm, trawl the arse out of it then turn it into a green zone. hey i might just get a job with gbrmpa :-/ :-/ :-/

cheers
dazza

[Gazza]

It won't happen ,i'll bet Peter Beatties nuts on that.

[webby]

Im with you Gazza, but i dont no about betting nuts on it ;D
regards

[Big_Kev]

Peter Beatie is a Liar.And I think he has his hands full enough at the minute with the electrical fiasco his gov created and is now lying about to try and blame the energy companies.

[SNELLY]

Dazza,

I'm with you - Bring the thing up here and put it out on Moore Reef - in the middle of one of GBRMPA's green zones - Probably do less damage than the amount of tourists that are going to be out there by the time they get all the new pontoons in place

Snelly

[Gazza]

Im with you Gazza, but i dont no about betting nuts on it ;D
regards
Hi Webby :D
R U saying my nut is nutz, or Pete has noooooo nuts whatsoever , if he goes hook,line and sinker with this...
LOAD OF CRAP!!....there, I said it :-X

;)

[Gazza]

Dazza,

I'm with you - Bring the thing up here and put it out on Moore Reef - in the middle of one of GBRMPA's green zones - Probably do less damage than the amount of tourists that are going to be out there by the time they get all the new pontoons in place

Snelly
Hi Snelly, that ain't as silly as it sounds mate. ;)

Why don't we RecFishos donate lots of bucks, to have big seacages, stinger-proof, stonefish-secure.....say a couple of hundred or so, 2~5 hectares in size, that the tourists could all jump into ,and have fun [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]


We could even motor up every now n then and chuck bits of coral at 'em .....err to them.....sorta like re-stocking :P

[thargor]

I dont quite get all of this. Moreton Bay faces a wide range of pressures

1. Sewage disposal (although they say its "clean")
2. Fishing - both commercial and rec
3. Coastal Development
4. Other forms of pollution

Now for the big one - the reclaimed seagrass beds at the end of fishermans Island. A total of 400 plus hectares of seabed is on the verge of being shut off and filled. Go have a look at it for yourselves. The stones walls nearly make it to Mud (well its nearly there). If you compare this to the fish cage I would have thought the fish cage wouldnt even come close to this destruction. This development has

Removed breeding grounds for fish
Altered the natural current flows of Moreton in some way

You will be surprised just how big this thing is. Its a shame they couldnt have done something that had less impact.

[jaybee]

At i guess i would say the farm has been knocked on the head, which means i have to eat humble pie unless something in the background is going we don't know about following is the project schedule and as you see the construction was to be commenced early this year.
October 2001 Preliminary submission to State Government of:
• Initial Advice Statement
• Draft Terms of Reference
November 2001 EIS Terms of Reference on public display.
December 2001 Public comments on EIS Terms of Reference received.
December 2001 EIS Terms of Reference finalised.
January 2002 Start detailed EIS survey.
February 2003 EIS completed.
March 2003 Additional information required to be supplied.
July 2003 Public exhibition of EIS.
August 2003 State Government review of EIS.
October 2003 State Government approval process.
October 2003 Commonwealth Government review of EIS.
November 2003 Commonwealth Government approval process
Beginning 2004 Commence farm construction.
July 2004 Commence fingerling production at hatchery
September 2004 Commence farm production.

[PinHead]

I doubt it will happen.
Pete will let the system carry on and then come out and make a big song and dance and say how the EPA says no and how good his Govt. is for having such a great record on EPA issues blah blah blah. All political spin doctoring. Hell, some of these pollies could seel shit at a sewage treatment plant.

[GES]

I hope you're right Jaybee.
It wouldn't be beyond the realms of probability, if the Sun Aqua company offers some money to Peter Beatie's party electoral fund, they just could roll the way of letting the farm through. Queensland politicians have done that before and they don't seem to think beyond the next election.
I just don't trust 'em.

GES

[Gazza]

Don't ever 'trust' em GES..... it's your money they're playing with. :o
p.s. your lifestyle too >:(

Regards
Gazza
(good to see you here mate ;) )

[jaybee]

ges i don't trust them either, pollies tend to roll back on many promises they make, and Mr Beattie is middle of the road with this one, he has never really stated if he is for or against, just used the epa to determine the outcome, now with a 1/3 of the gbr closed by federal gov, thinking (conspiracy theory) they could use that as an excuse to go ahead with farming.
cheers
Joe

[Gazza]

It won't happen ,i'll bet Peter Beatties nut(s) on that.

[landy1]

Wouldnt it be a shame if it did go ahead and all of those big healthy fish got accidently released into the bay. Like the Kingfish down South. Excelent fishing for a little while till they ate everything else. ;D :'(

[jaybee]

Last Update: Friday, August 6, 2004. 8:10am (AEST)
Govt urged to block Moreton Bay fish farm
Stakeholders opposed to the development of a fish farm in Brisbane's Moreton Bay are calling on the Queensland Government to stop it.
Environmentalists, local councillors, commercial and recreational fishermen have been discussing ways of campaigning against the development.
Bill Turner from Sunfish says the group hopes to meet with Premier Peter Beattie soon to voice its unhappiness with the project.
"It's just going to reduce fish stocks, reduce breeding stocks and reduce the number of fish in the bay," he said.
"It's going to reduce the number of tourists who come here to fish because there's not going to be any fish here to catch and it's going to reduce the number of bait shops and tackle shops, and it's just going to cost millions of millions of dollars if it goes ahead."

[coral_critter]

Don't know much about the fish farm, but from what I have learnt over the last few years (I am involved in the finance industry) about aquaculture is that with increased consumption of seafood and just about most wild fisheries now closed, demand on human grown product will increase.
Seems abit like a double edged sword. Close down the professionsal fishermen because they are supposedly damaging the environment and then let in a fishfarm into the marine park.
??? ??? ???

[jaybee]

Here you go coral crunch these numbers, Like you say double edged sword.

David Suzuki states 'A total of 2.7 to 3.5 tonnes of wild fish are used to make 1 tonne of farmed salmon'.

Fish farming proponents often point out that, since the wild fisheries are collapsing, farming the oceans is necessary to feed a hungry world (i). They claim that their industry can supply food while taking pressure off ocean resources. But it isn't that straightforward.

The impact of aquaculture (farming of a seafood species) varies, depending on what species is farmed and what method is used. Pressure on ocean resources is only removed if the aquaculture species being farmed is not carnivorous, ie they do not require wild fishmeal (crushed, and nutrient-enhanced fish food). SunAqua has proposed to farm snapper, a carnivorous species of fish. Therefore, SunAqua will indirectly increase pressure upon wild South American (Peruvian anchovy) fisheries used to make fishmeal for snapper, which are already under severe pressure from overfishing.

Conversion factor: 2 : 1(ii) For every 1 tonne of farmed snapper, 2 tonnes of fish meal from wild fish will be used. This is a conservative estimate for snapper- other estimates have been as high as 3.5 : 1.
[EIS, prepared for Pisces Marine Aquaculture Pty. Ltd., March 2001)

[BigE]

Hey landy.....Wouldnt it be a shame if it did go ahead and all of those big healthy fish got accidently released into the bay. ;D ;D ;D Sounds almost like a big seafood co exporting Coral Trout out of bowen a few years back big live pens of Coral Trout right in bowen harbour.....so many trout in there the dam thing .....errrrr.....aaahhhh tore open yeah that right .............caught coral trout right at the boat ramp for weeks and weren't they hungry after a few weeks of only fishmeal (tip if they get out live bait is the go!!!! ;) )

[Dug]

I really wonder why they are not spending money on fish farming just young fish like the freshwater stocking. Raise from egg to fingerling and release. Imagine if every year millions of young fish of commercial and recreational species were released into the system. That is a fish farm I would support. ???

[lordy]

Here you go coral crunch these numbers, Like you say double edged sword.

David Suzuki states 'A total of 2.7 to 3.5 tonnes of wild fish are used to make 1 tonne of farmed salmon'.

Fish farming proponents often point out that, since the wild fisheries are collapsing, farming the oceans is necessary to feed a hungry world (i). They claim that their industry can supply food while taking pressure off ocean resources. But it isn't that straightforward.

The impact of aquaculture (farming of a seafood species) varies, depending on what species is farmed and what method is used. Pressure on ocean resources is only removed if the aquaculture species being farmed is not carnivorous, ie they do not require wild fishmeal (crushed, and nutrient-enhanced fish food). SunAqua has proposed to farm snapper, a carnivorous species of fish. Therefore, SunAqua will indirectly increase pressure upon wild South American (Peruvian anchovy) fisheries used to make fishmeal for snapper, which are already under severe pressure from overfishing.

Conversion factor: 2 : 1(ii) For every 1 tonne of farmed snapper, 2 tonnes of fish meal from wild fish will be used. This is a conservative estimate for snapper- other estimates have been as high as 3.5 : 1.
[EIS, prepared for Pisces Marine Aquaculture Pty. Ltd., March 2001)




You wouldn't eat grainfed beef if you wanted to do those kinds of sums. About 6-7kg of dry weight feed to produce 1kg of liveweight (which becomes about 500 grams of wet weight meat, which becomes about 150 grams dry weight meat). 40kg of grain to produce 0.8 kg of protein and 0.2kg of other stuff.

[jaybee]

The difference here though lordy grain is a replenishable resource, farmers can put back into the earth they take out, fishermen, can not. :'(

[blaze]

only trouble with the grain joe is the crap they put on the ground to extensively farm it( runs into the waterways). we are an over populating world and to feed the masses the envoirement will suffer
i am not green but consious of the damage we do and just try to do my little bit
cheers
blaze

[lordy]

The difference here though lordy grain is a replenishable resource, farmers can put back into the earth they take out, fishermen, can not. #:'(

Raping the wild stocks to feed them is poor logic and waste.
Logically they would be better off feeding people the pellets, but we probably wouldn't want to eat them. ;D

When you factor in all of the expense in growing the grain, the fuel burnt to plough, sow, spray, harvest, transport, add that too the fertilizers, herbicides, pesticides, the machines used to dry the grain etc etc etc. All this just to make a kilo of beef when the buggers eat grass and do it themselves (and taste just fine).

When you see people starving in Africa and see some fat bullock eating 10-13kg of grain a day to make 1 kg of steak, its questionable use of resources.

[jaybee]

got to agree with both blaze and you lordy, when i lived in kingaroy, they were starting to feed the beef cattle the waste from peanuts and navy beans, then to replenish the ground they grow triticala, (spelling) which can also be used for feed, not many farmers use pesticide up that way.
cheers
Joe

[Leo_N.]

Just a few points for thought.

A fish farm is not an innately polluting industry. Careful feeding management can ensure that nitrogen and phosphorous outputs are negligable. This is the idea behind the monitoring process.

Carnivorous fish do NOT necesarily require large amounts of fish meal in feeds. They DO require an appropriate balance of essential and non-essential amino acids, which can be supplied by terrestrial sources such as soybeans and lupins (once antinutritional factors have been removed), blood and offal meals and crystalline amino acids. The reason that fish meal is used extensively is that it is an easy way of ensuring optimal amino acid profile and palatability. Fish processing waste can alao be used in a similar way, but needs to be processd appropriately to remove large amounts of bone (phosphorus problems). A lot of this research has been done - it is up to feed manufacturers to take it on and farm operators to put in place sustainable management processes.

Cage farms have a bad record for pollution overseas, in places like the Baltic and North Seas. These places have little flushing of relatively enclosed areas of water, and farmers have tended to over-intensify. It is up to management and site selection.

My opinion is that the future of fish farming in Australia will be land-based. These facilities can have bioremedial areas that 'clean up' the water before discharge, and can be minitored easily as a 'point source' input to natural systems, rather than a diffuse input (cage farms).

As for the hatchery reared fish being released to supplement natural fisheries, this is already done in some parts of Australia and extensively overseas. Hinchinbrook Channel is one notable example of an open system that has been stocked with barramundi. The main reasons behind not doing this more extensively seem to be: 1) genetics - hatcheries rear fish from a low genetic base, lowering the genotypic basis of a population, possibly leading to inbreeding; 2) predation - large numbers of predatory fish released can have large impacts on baitfish populations and 3) translocation - fish like yellowtail kingfish migrate over large areas, so the effort that we put in in Australia may be reaped in New Zealand for instance.

Anyway, that's my two-bob. And I am in no way affiliated with the proposed farm.

[GES]

quote Lordy
"Raping the wild stocks to feed them is poor logic and waste.
Logically they would be better off feeding people the pellets, but we probably wouldn't want to eat them. #;D"

Lordy
The fish farming company is not trying to get into Moreton Bay to grow fish as a humanitarian exercise to feed the starving minions of the world mate. They are intending to sell the farmed fish at phenominally high prices in overseas markets.
I suspect, the same markets as our spotted mackerel were being sent to when they were being raped by the ring netting and the same markets that take our live coral trout exports. My guess is they were intended to be eaten by very rich Asians ... not poor starving Africans. And we Aussies won't get any either because we wouldn't pay the prices they get overseas for them. So, they'd all be exported.
All we would get is the wages from a few labourers jobs, all the pollution, lose of the use of some of our best Moreton Bay waterways (they'll be made "no go" areas to the public) and the real possibility of some detrimental fish diseases being propogated or introduced into the waterways because of the intense nature of fish farming.
Someone here suggested we might get some good fishing from any accidentally escaping fish from the cages. Any spill over benefits of accidental loses of fish from the cages would be a bloody high price to pay for what we would lose, let me tell you.

GES

[lordy]

GES what I mean was taking 10 tonnes of baitfish and turning them into 3 tonnes of snapper was a waste of 7 tonnes of fish.

[The_Walrus]

Everyone seems to agree that the snapper cages are not a good thing.

The deafening silence from Beattie and Co is not reassuring.

Luc