Your ideas and views on bag limits for Qld

[bugman]

Gents,

This forum throws up a very diverse set of opinions from time to time - especially on the debate about fish catch limits - meato's v's CR

I love fishing and I love a feed of fish - some recent bag limits have impacted on some people in regards to taking fish home - mainly the reef species but spotties, spaniards and tailor have also been affected.

At this stage limits on most of the bread and butter species remain constant.

We currently also have individual species limit on most fish but the coral Reef Plan saw a combined species approach.

I'm after your thoughts good and bad on bag limits and maybe how that relates to size limits as well.

I should add - there's no hidden agenda here I'm just looking for a range of opinions to see whether there's a common thread.

Bugman

[agnes_jack]

Brett
I'm all for the bag limits, in some cases I don't think that they are stiff enough!
In my opinion, species such as bream and whiting are ridiculously small at there legal sizes, I mean whats the point in keeping a fish that gives you a see thru fillet of about 4 inches long? The average offshore bloke can keep 20 coral reef fin fish plus 3 spanish, 30 school mackeral, 5 spotties as many grassies as he wants, Not too much wrong with that. Some of the more prolific reef species such as baldy bream, hussar etc, should have higher bag limits, and some such as footballer cod could have smaller size limits so that it is possible to keep one now and again, but overall I think that fisheries are on track. There still some limits lacking such as no bag limit on important rec species such as mangrove jack. But they are getting there.

Not too many beefs from me! Regards, Tony

Ps My main problem with fisheries is TOTAL LACK OF ENFORCEMENT!!!!!!!!!!! >:(

[dazza]

hi brett,
totally agree with tony, i personally think our bag limits are ample. if you need to bring home more than 30 reef fish or keep more than 30 schoolies, i really question what you are doing with them- ie, black market, selling to neighbours etc.
fisheries enforcement is non existant, those who choose to break the law are pretty safe.
reduction in catch/bag limits on the rec sector must also be reflected in pro quotas as well, no point putting a tight limit on the rec sector and letting the pros go open slather, works the other way as well.
for me the main issue is policing the existing laws
cheers
dazza

[lordy]

Gents,

This forum throws up a very diverse set of opinions from time to time - especially on the debate about fish catch limits - meato's v's CR

I love fishing and I love a feed of fish - some recent bag limits have impacted on some people in regards to taking fish home - mainly the reef species but spotties, spaniards and tailor have also been affected.

At this stage limits on most of the bread and butter species remain constant.

We currently also have individual species limit on most fish but the coral Reef Plan saw a combined species approach.

I'm after your thoughts good and bad on bag limits and maybe how that relates to size limits as well.

I should add - there's no hidden agenda here I'm just looking for a range of opinions to see whether there's a common thread.

Bugman


I think we need more slot limits for more common species or ones under pressure. Let the little ones go to grow and the big ones go to breed. The more rec fishos are seen to be at the forefront of fishery health the more force we have in arguments we want to win.

[bugman]

Thanks so far gents.

Hit me with some specifics as well ie: Bream - Bag limit 10 - size limit 26cms

Or Combined Estuary Limit: Bag limit 30 - Species, bream, flathead, whiting, gar etc etc

Here's one for you - no size limits but a combined bag limit of 20 fish - just being radical now.

Brett

[seafox]

I agree with Tony and Brett although I think reds could be a smaller size

Cheers

[agnes_jack]

Brett
Bag limits on bream, I think 10 would be generous, but size limit in my opinion should be around the 30cm mark. Gar I dont see the need to impose size or bag limit.
Whiting 28cm bag limit 20. Flathead I think are fine as they are-i.e. 5 bag limit, min40 max 70. I think it would be very wrong to have an overall bag of 20 with no size limits, especially where flathead are concerned, This would also cause problems with barra, estuary cod, grunter, jacks etc. Jacks I believe should have a bag limit of 3 per person and minimum size should be 40 cm.

# # # # # # Regards, Tony
P.S. I would agree that reds could have a smaller limit of say 50cm.

[bugman]

Probably should say up front that a lot of thought on size limits is actually set buy scientifc study about breeding sexual maturity and survival rate after capture.

There's actually compelling scientific evidence for a reduction of the size limit of BREAM would you beleive.

Just because we'd all like to catch bigger fish doesn't necessarily flow on to regulation.

Brett

[craigie]

Brett,

"A combined Estuary Bag Limit", now there's a statement that would throw fear into some of our Rec Fishing fraternity.

A bag limit of 20 per species (Bream, Whiting) would be fine with me and preferably a size increase to 25cm+ which would allow more spawning cycles before capture.

But most important of all, Peter Beattie needs to give DPI Fisheries some more cash so they can employ more Boating & Fisheries Patrol Officers !!! Easy to make more and more rules, but we need the people to police them.

Cheers
Craigie.

[agnes_jack]

Wether or not the sizes are worked to the science, I don't see the point in killing a fish for so little return. At least, the size should be big enough to get a feed!
Any reduction in sizes should be calculated via breeding maturity etc for sure.
Why do they think there is a need to reduce bream sizes ???

# # # # # # #Regards, Tony

Good thread, Brett

[Girella]

Dazza

I agree that the main issue is policing existing laws.
Obviously though, the resources required to do this effectively
would be massive.
Maybe in the long run the best thing we can do is to change peoples attitudes when it comes to fishing.
That is, we need to educate the masses that the real enjoyment comes from the catching and that you don't have to kill and/or
eat everything you catch.

I think this is where we owe a debt of gratitude to.............
Rex Hunt. While he is not always held in the highest regard by fellow fisherman, no one can deny the role he has played in changing the attitudes and awareness of the general public.
So hats off to Rex and others who are playing such a vital
role in preservation of fish stocks through education.

[zedjack33]

Sizes have to work on science for obvious reasons. :-/ However, for certain species, an increase in multiple spawning cycles would be advantageous. What I’m getting at is allowing for minimal spawning cycles is fraught with danger. [smiley=behead.gif]Bad seasons do occur. We have been lucky this past year with good rains and good flush outs. Unfortunately much of the water is getting held back :-/

Cheers Zedjack33

[Lucky_Phill]

Putting a bag limit on Bread & Butter species will have an enourmous impact on Club Fishoes, and my feelings are well known here about the practice of donging 100+Bream in a night, just to win a Trophy. I believe the more opportunities a Fish has to spawn, can only make the Fishery more sustainable.

Bream are way too small at 23cms. maybe 30, although 10 Bream at 28cms is a good effort and feed.

Whiting ( Summer ) should go the same as Bream. I believe, ( due to records ) that Whiting numbers are NOT in the decline and appear NOT to be overfished. That doesn't mean changes don't have to be made.

Regulation Policing ! Jeez Louise ! is there such a thing ?

I'll go back to a statement I made here some time ago, If we, as an individual, do the right thing and stick to the regs, pass on this attitude to our offspring, the message will get thru. Before we start pointing fingers and launch accusations, make sure our backyard is in order. ::)

The Recreational Fishing Industry in Queensland alone is second only to the Mining Industry as a source of income produced. This WILL mean something to the Pollies one day !

Phill

[Whiley_Whiting]

Bugman - excellent forum to start !

Have to say I believe all species should have a size limit and a bag limit, BUT... these have to be in line with the giving the fish a number of spawning/breeding cycles before it is allowed to be kept.

The other thing to consider is where there are upper size limits on some species, such as cod, when these are captured how many actually survive the release? Escpecially when they are being pulled up from 50+ metres. It seems ridiculous to have an upper limit when after release they die anyway. However, on fish such as flathead the recent upper limit must be aplauded.

Whiting - even the diver, or winter whiting, should have a size and bag limit. Some of the smaller fish that people keep woulndnt even provide a decent fillet for a 2 year old. Also a bag limit is necessary. In Hervey Bay, netting for the winter whiting is prohibited in the Sandy Straits and areas close to HB during certain months, however you hear, and see, people saying to friends in boasts nearby that they have caught a thousand in the week. Now if a number of boats are doing this then wouldnt this do as much damage as netting??

Phil - I know you are saying that research is indicating an increase in the population but when has this research reported the population increase from? I would be interested in reading any research on this.

[agnes_jack]

Just regarding the policing of regs.
I dont believe that people will do the right thing thru education.
I sit in my shop here handing out regs brochures, and verbally reminding people about the size and bag limits all day everyday.
The amount of people who come in and tell me things like "I caught a huge flathead yesterday, must have been 80cm!" is stunning. I always ask did you throw it back?
More often than not, I get a reply like "NO WAY, I only get to fish a few times a year and there is no way in the world that I am going to throw a fish like that back in the water"
If the regs are to do anything at all, people need to think that there is a good chance they will be caught. At the moment there is more chance they will win lotto than get caught with an illegal size fish.

Regards, Tony >:( >:( >:(

[zedjack33]

Amen [smiley=wut.gif] [smiley=wut.gif] [smiley=wut.gif] [smiley=wut.gif] [smiley=wut.gif]

[DaneCross]

Just on policing, we arrived back at the boat ramp on Sunday just as two fisheries officers pulled up. They casually asked my mate (the only licenced driver on our boat) if he had a licence. My mates reply was, "yes, but not on me." With no follow up, they then asked if we had caught anything. My mates reply was, "Yeh we got one little one" referring to the 55cm flathead in the esky. Then without even checking the size of this 'little one' we were told to "have a nice day" and off we went. I couldn't believe it, for once we finally see one of these so called inspectors then we get this half-arsed approach and didn't even have to show our catch :o >:(
As for bag limits, I would agree to a limit on bream and whiting as well as an increase in their size limit. I would also agree to a bag limit on Jacks. The limits in place at the moment have never prevented me from taking home enough for a feed, I think they are suffice and in some species could be limited further.
Dane

[basserman]

i (comeing from NSW) would like slot sizes on most of our popular fish i'm still stuffed what you could do with a 10kg snapper or a 20kg jew!
i would also like to see size limits up for the resons tony has stated and anyway what type of fillet do you get from a (23cm qld-25cm nsw) bream or even a 27cm whitting??? and i also thing the NSW bag limits need drastic attation as we are allowed 20 balckfish 20 bream 10 flathead 20 whitting! and it goes on! a combined bag limit is a good idea ;D

[lordy]

I think bream would be a good fish for slot limit. I tend to think slow growing fish are the best suited by slot limits. Some of those bream are well over 20 years old, and at that age and size are worth keeping as breeders.

[Mad_Barry]

Always cautious of recommending a reduction for rec fisho's, as there is more overall sustainability issues to look at as well.

Though at a glance, the current level of 5 barra is way too generous, so is max size of 120cm.

2 (maybe 1??), & max of say 1m would be good to see.

[banshee]

I think the bag limits for reef fish in QLD works well for areas that have a wide variety of species that can be caught,people can always go chase something else not to far away,where it falls down and becomes counter productive is in places where few species are caught and the bag limits for these fish is low.An example of this can be seen here(NSW),you can keep 5 Pearlies,5 Trag and by christmass 5 Snapper in your possesion,I have been on boats where the people have "upgraded" their bags resulting in the smaller fish being discarded,I have also been approached at sea by other boats wanting to get rid of fish,when the offer is declined the come back is always the same,"I'm only going to chuck 'm if no one wants em." Man is a greedy animal on the whole,I don't see an answer to this problem.With regards to legal lengths,I think they should be set after a fishes third or fourth breeding cycle,not only would it diversify the gene pool,but I have always wondered if fish like humans have individuals that grow more rapidly than the norm,if so we could be starving the gene pool once again by taking fish that although legal,may not have bred.

[budgie]

"You cant please everyone all the time!" The regs cover a huge amount of water and I wouldnt like the job of choosing what is in or out. Different habitats and regions, difficult to be right every time. I think the regulators are doing their best with the resources available. Agree with more policing. Hey Banshee, how do you tell how old a fish is or how active its sex life has been??? Cheers budgie

[Gazza]

Always a lot of suggestions to impose "restrictions" #???
IF a specie is deemed sustainable why impose a limit that doesn't fit?

Think about it, most of you guys have basically said , you'd "choose" to take a larger bream ,regardless of legal minsize, Bugman suggest it could "theoretically" be even lower #:o .....so why adjust it up #???
Because you can #??? , as a feel-good #??? or because you should to "save it"

I think "un-necessary feelgood " sizelimits ,w-e-a-k-e-n-s legitimate bag/size/closures as then possibly being seen as being unfair ,when they are needed (sometimes #>:( )

p.s. what's the min.sizelimit of Marlin, smaller or greater than bream.......hmmmmmm.....hmmmmm #[smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

If it's not broke ,don't "fix" it.
Interstate(nsw) regs ,spitting distance down the road ,have a whole different 'concept' for snapper and flatties and Jennies and etc.....go figure !!
oh yeah ,NO min. limit for MJ's either #>:(

Just another angle #;)
Regards
Gazza

[banshee]

A fishes age is detirmened by the rings on the otoliths,as for when and how often fish become sexualy active I wouldn't have a clue,but legal lengths are detirmined by the average length a species is after it has bred once.

[basserman]

marlin min size is 90cm in NSW thats for bule black and stripe ;D
so i have offten wondered why isn't the fisherys controled by say a fedraly run group that could look after our fish the same and bring the size limtations and bags into line in each state ??? wouldn't that make it easyer???

[Gazza]

marlin min size is 90cm in NSW thats for bule black and stripe ;D


Drop it to zero ,and you'll have a fishery like Cairns :P

[trout3030]

I mainly fish the reefs out of 1770 and think the current size and bag limits are not too bad. I do however think that hussar could have an individual bag limit and not be counted in the 20 combined limit. Some days and especially nights they are as thick as hair on a cats back and finding other species is tough. As for the reds I think it is a case of wait and see how it goes. Seemed to catch more reds when they were increased to 45cm and already finding the odd one over 55cm. Could be a good thing in the future. In the esturies I agree the mangrove jack need a bag limit. Also think bream could go to around 28cm. Summer/sand whiting should go to 27-28cm also. Winter whiting could have a size limit to at least stop people taking fish that won't even feed the cat that alone a person. Say 25cm. And realising that these are a seasonal, schooling fish I think a bag lmit of around 30-40 would be ok.

[NeilD]

A mixed bag limit for esturies of 30 fish would take some pressure off bread and butter species. I also like the Snapper size related bag limits used down south. Five Snapper over 5kg is a lot of fish for personal use.

neil

[megafish71]

Hey Dicko, ever wondered why the NT don't have a max size on barra? The reason is that once a female barra reaches a size of around 120cm they eat more young barra each breeding season than they produce. I have caught many barra over 120cm, most were released, but some have made their way to my table. Sometimes these big fish just won't revive, and I will not continue to try and revive these fish when the crocs take an interest in what I am doing. I rather eat the fish and keep my arm attached to my body than feed a fish like that to the crocs. Have lost enough big fish to crocs over the years of fishing in the NT. I think again Fisheries have introduced a size limit with out looking at all the facts.

Ron

[bugman]

Thanks for all the replies so far - keep them coming.

For those that have asked about how sizes are set and maturity sizes and breeding cycles - you have to realise that the minimum sizes affect professional fisherman as well.

Scenario - size limit of bream goes up to 28. Netter shoots a set net or tunnel net or even seine net and gets a haul. A lot of the bream will be under 28cms and will be dead. He must throw them away - wasted resource for both him and the fishery.

I know people are going to say - get rid of pros - but that just isn't ever gunna happen - there's always going to be professional fisherman who use nets.

As for slot sizes the same scenario applies for pros who are actually wasting a bigger resource with a bigger dead fish. The fallout on the flathead size continues. The draft policy went to Govt saying pros were meant to be exempt from the max size but Govt overturned it. - And who says Govt doesn't do anything for rec fishos ;D

Budgie - got it right "you can't please everyone all of the time"

Brett

[blaze]

Hi All
In Tassie we have a combined possesion limit of 45 scale fish with min lenths of some species, 2 gummy shark and a few other regs, but basicly its very simple, be nice if it was policed a bit more though
cheers
blaze

[bugman]

Blaze - you guys are also able to use nets ::)

I'd like to see me go to fisheries with a proposal to allow recreational set netting [smiley=hanged.gif]

[Whiley_Whiting]

Gazza - I am assuming that by 'Jennies' you mean mud crabs. In NSW they have found that mud crabs do not breed due to water temperatures being lower than QLD. The only way juvenile mud crabs find they way down into southern waters is by the fertilised eggs floating down the southern current. This was explained to me by a DPI person down south. I must admit when I was living in Sydney and fishing the South Coast it was initially hard to take the large female but geez they tasted good !!

[blaze]

hi bugman
gotta hate nets, why would you want to set a net for a limit of 45 scale fish, how many dead fish do ya throw away, they really p**s me off, I would like to see all netting within 10 k of any land mass banned for pros and recs.
cheers
blaze
back to tassie tonight (hayra)

[philip_thomson]

I think that most of the size limits are good how they are but agree that an increase in bream is neccasary. At 23cm there is virtually no meat on the fish, and the same goes for whiting. However i think red emperor at 55cm is perhaps to large. At 55cm this is a large fish weighing a good few kgs. Perhaps a minimum of 50cm would be appropriate for these fish. But i think that if the rules were policed more then there would be less of these undersize fish and bag limits broken.

cheers phil

[Mad_Barry]

Ron,

I understand that's a big issue with the stocked impoundments where all are in a confined area with limited choices of food, but would it be the same with the free range salties ? How would we check it ? #;D

[megafish71]

Hey Dicko, just contact NT Fisheries as they have done the studies, or contact John at AFANT, I'm shaw he could also get the info for you. But simply the answer is yes, Barra are lazy fish and a barra fingerling is an easy feed for a big lazy fish. If you do contact NT Fisheries ask them about the mud crab management plan, If you read this you will soon understand as to why the Queensland mud crab stocks are so depleated also. But there is no simple fix for the mud crab stocks problem or at least not something that this or probably any government would consider. (would cost them too many votes)

Ron

[Remo]

I think most of the regs are fine except for the bream. this should be lifted to 28cm to the fork and whiting 27cms.

This might help the estuary fish breed up as the bigger the fish the more eggs they produce.