Touch your toes - here it comes!

[Gorilla_in_Manila]

Maybe a bit more information is necessary, but my guess is; get ready for more shafting Qld fisho's! :-/
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200410/s1223805.htm
Cheers
Jeff
PS funny how it was announced JUST AFTER the election.

============================================
Last Update: Wednesday, October 20, 2004. 10:46am (AEST)
Govt unveils reef marine park plans
The Queensland Government will create the longest marine park in Australia to protect the Great Barrier Reef.

It will stretch along more than 3,600 kilometres of coastline from Bundaberg in the state's south-east to the tip of Cape York in the far north, and will take effect from November 5.

Environment Minister Desley Boyle has told State Parliament the changes complement the Federal Government's new reef zoning plan.

People who fish in rivers, creeks and mangroves will not be affected by the fishing restrictions.

[notts_so]

This is bull#### >:( this another kick in the guts to all qld rec fishers from the master off anallingus Mizz desley I hate my name boyle what next make owning a boat ellegal . >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

[FishFrame]

Hey, people, the solution is to lobby the George St gits out of their wits to undo this crap. The best best way to lobby them is warn them of the massive voting block against them if they proceed... >:(

[where_is_dave]

[quote author=Gorilla
People who fish in rivers, creeks and mangroves will not be affected by the fishing restrictions.

[/quote]

Until all those that used to fish the reefs but now can't start fishing the rivers and creeks coz there's nowhere else to go then the rivers and creeks will be closed after some spurious study declares the rivers and creeks are being overfished.

Well no need for me to go out shopping for that big boat that was gonna cost a fortune to get out to the reef, no need to inject money into the system by upgrading my rods and reels to handle the reef fishing - and numerous other associated gear I need.

Are they really gonna be able to compensate for that kind of lost revenue?

[notts_so]

I hear ya dave

[Black_Rat]

Surely it wouldn't be total ban on rec fishing ??? Looks like the trip to Swains booked for mid next year might be a fizzer :'( :'( [smiley=uhoh.gif] [smiley=veryangry.gif]

[mini696]

I cant see this as anything but good.

I say protect the whole ocean, and while they're at it the rivers, lakes, dams, backyard pools. Then all native and old growth forests, deserts, and all creatures great and small. I'm by no means a "Greenie", but I am concerned about conservation.

I would also like to see catch limits restricted furthur for everyone (rec and pro). Especially the pros, they need to be accountable for everything they affect, be it, the actual catch, undersize catch, bycatch, even seagrass.

Am I in a minority on this site?? I get the feeling a few of you don't like any restriction on anything to do with fishing, (except for maybe catch size and quantity limits). But you don't seem to like having fishing areas restricted, even if you can fish, but can't take from a certain area.

I'm not trying to be difficult here either. :) Just concerned.

[Fishin_Dan]

But you don't seem to like having fishing areas restricted, even if you can fish, but can't take from a certain area.

I think the issue is that you won't be able to fish there at all, more than catch and release only. From what I've seen on this site, most people are very PRO catch n release.... People stopping them having places to fish at all, well that's a different story altogether!

[mini696]

People stopping them having places to fish at all, well that's a different story altogether!

Never a truer word spoken.

I can understand having restrictions in spawning areas, but thats the only place.

I doubt the new zoning will mean a ban to all fishing, just restrict the style of fishing done there. It will also restrict the type of vessel allowed within certain distances. I HOPE!!

[megafish71]

Hey Mini
Obivously you dont have kids, or if you do they must love being infront of the TV playing stupid video games. I grew up in a coastal area and spent most of my spare time fishing of the beach or rocky headlands. This kept me active and out of trouble. But it appears we don't have enough young people wandering the street and being a real pain in the arse, so the government in all their wisdom closers down fishing along a huge part of the coastline to stop young and old from enjoying landbased fishing. Dead set mate if you endorse this kind of thing happening, with no scientific proof that this will benifit the well being of enviroment, then your a dead set goose. All this is is another grab for the green vote of this state. Cant you see that, or are you blind as well as stupid. I also like how this has no impact on the south east corner of Queensland again. If they introduced this into SE corner they might upset too many people and cost themselves thier jobs. All I can say is typical, what next a ban on breathing to stop the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. I suggest that the politicians try this one first and their green supporters next.

Ron

[Barrymundi]

Correct me if I have read this wrong. All that has happened is the State Waters are now part of the GBRMPA area for waters north of Bundy,

What restriction are there ? Where is the closing of 3600km of beach. Help me please, I am a bit slow :)

[mini696]

I must be a bit slow too... [smiley=book2.gif]I had a look at the maps for Gladstone area.

I have a vested interest in the Capricornia region, so just because I'm on the Sunshine Coast doesn't mean I'm speaking unaffected by these changes.

I couldn't find anything which would stop me and every person I know who fishes that area from doing exactly what they do now. Perhaps some of the professionals, but very slightly.

[dfox]

AL- everything starts "slow".I agree with megafish, its always a greeny grab, they got 30% now they "slowly" restrict more and more.My personal apinion is they got the best 30% how much no fish zones do they need! Surely thats enough, now the green movement should switch there attention to water quality and leave us alone...foxy

[lures]

Correct me if I am wrong.You say 3600 km of coastline from Bundy to the tip of Cape york.In my calculations from Bundy to Cape York is only approx 2200 km , so we have already got back 1400km's.I am led to belive it is approx 600k's and 350 of this is north of cooktown, so that leaves 250 k's between cooktown and bundy
regards Gary :-X

[Chrisso]

They didn't make the outlandish statements buddy, the ABC published them on their website. #:-* One would think the ABC would be correct. I'm sure the ABC checked their facts. #:-X

Rec fisho's haven't got anything back, it was all ours to start with wasn't it! ???

[Fishinmishin]

I say protect all creatures great and small. #(QUOTE)

Well don't let catch you swatting any midges or stepping on any ants. I'm all for enforcing sustainable practices in relation to the environment, but when there are soooooooooooo many important issues that are given token gestures or swept under the rug by the politicians (Air Pollution, Global Warming, Hazardous Waste, Ozone Depletion, Water Pollution, Overpopulation, Rain Forest Destruction, Drought and Public Health to name some) due to the cost and effort involved, the reduced revenue due to funding or taxing(eg-fossil fuel alternatives) it seems that the fishos are given the short end of the stick. #[smiley=behead.gif]
It's obvious that politicians are aware that a major attraction of Australia is the Great Barrier Reef and so they are attempting a short term solution to prolonging it's current condition but if you ask any scientist (seen a few on this site so please correct me if needed) the destruction of the reef is primarily going to be caused by global warming, and that's not too far away at all. #[smiley=end.gif]
So I ask you all this, When the world came together to sign an agreement to take steps to reducing the output of environmentally dangerous chemicals and gasses into the air, why did the politicians decide not to partake and why does our great country produce these chemicals at one of the highest rates per pop. in the world. Because we allow F*C**NG IDIOTS to run it. #[smiley=dizzy.gif] [smiley=confused.gif] [smiley=freak.gif] [smiley=freak.gif] [smiley=greedy.gif] [smiley=hammer.gif] [smiley=hammer.gif] [smiley=huh2.gif] [smiley=huh2.gif] [smiley=oops.gif] [smiley=worried2.gif] [smiley=thumbsdown.gif]
When the is no living reef to fish and the fish have all found a new home somewhere far away, watch the politicians then beg us to come back and fish the area to see all that money$$ the rec fishos roll into the economy. [smiley=oops.gif] [smiley=help.gif]
My 3 bob. :o

[dfox]

Irrespective of the distance from bundy to cape york the key word is "COASTLINE" which includes bays,inlets, islands and beaches of our coastline, when measured im sure youll be surprised at the total. eg how many ks is there in hinchinbrook island alone!...foxy

[budgie]

I believe the change only effects the bit between low water and high water mark, not creeks or rivers and is reflective of the GBRMPA zone that touches that area. There are some areas of green that reach the shore, but most things wont change. (Yet) Cheers Budgie

[Kiktz]

I think in stead of putting these BS laws in place why not spend some money on catching the guys that break the rules by exceeding bag limits and size limits.

I think generally we as a "Body" do the right thing. It is a shame IMHO that we are being hit as to where and when we can fish. Bring it On Megafish!!! you have found aleast friend on here today, I would like my kids to be able to enjoy what the water and fishing has given me. It sure beats the hell of of the Sh*t we see on TV these days.

Why dont we have more inspectors out policing what is actually coming out of the water on to the plates!!!!!!!!!! Lets try there and see how the stocks go.

[Derek Bullock]

This post, like another that suggested it was now illegal to fish on 3600 klm of beach, really amazes me.

My job, yes I do have one, requires me to interpret legislation and policy. What has been published is very clear but to me it seems that no-one here has really read what has been published. All thats happening here on this post is a lot of rumour spreading, inuendo and scare mongering #from people who dont know what they are talking about.

I would suggest that you all get a copy of what is published and read it in it's entirety, not pull out little bits and change it to suit your own thoughts.

Healthy debate is good and encouraged but please stick to the facts.

Amazing .................. really amazing.


Derek

[Fishinmishin]

Derek,
I don't know much about the issue and I wouldn't really care if it meant that they are increasing the area we are allowed to fish or taking away only 1 square metre. I believe almost all politician decisions are solely driven by greed for money or votes in the end. Greed is a huge part of human nature but it always seems to be amplified with the people in power. This reef issue is not a major issue in my life at this time, but at some time in everyones life there will be an event which shows you how the decisions of the politicians are not for the average person (eg-health care system, education and poor vs. rich tax rates to name a few).
I thought this issue is a good chance for me to get on my soap box and say F*** the politicians.

p.s. I hate pumpkin fruit muffins!

p.s.s. If you're going to delete me from this site, then I'm only joking. I luv pumkin fruit muffins :P

[Black_Rat]

Hopefully the ones with the big stick (pollies) have there heads screwed on right ??
Damo
PS It is my 199 post so why not make it an issue ! ARRRRRGGHHHH #[smiley=angryfire.gif] [smiley=angryfire.gif] [smiley=angryfire.gif] #;D ;D ;D

[mini696]

I agree that there needs to be more policing of catch limits, and illegal fishing, BEFORE more restrictions are put in place.

Mick

PS Derrik... Have you got a reciepe for those Pumpkin Fruit Muffins handy??

[Jeremy]

Can someone - Derek - post a link to the media release or proposed legislation so we can educate ourselves about what it does mean? I am very concerned!

Jeremy

[where_is_dave]

Derek,
As I understand it pls correct me if I'm wrong but if the Whole thing is now a Marine National Park then the restrictions are quite severe. This is based on info found at (i don't know how to turn it into a link)http://www.gbrmpa.gov.au/corp_site/management/zoning/documents/IntroActiveGuide.pdf

[where_is_dave]

Great forum this turned it into a link for me - genius.

[Girella]

p.s. I hate pumpkin fruit muffins!

Fishinmishin
While I acknowledge your cullinary qualifications I seriously doubt that
you are justified in making such a statement !

As Derek suggests collect all the facts, (try a variety of muffins), be sure of your detail, (have you tried camp oven muffins ?) and then be prepared to accept that there may be a pumpkin fruit muffin that's right for you even if you haven't found it yet.

PS May I suggest a fruity port as an accompaniment ? ::)

[Mick]

I am sure I am not the only one who is scratching their head over the new Marine Park proposal by the State Government. Quite confusing to say the least! Like most of you, I want to know where I can or can't fish and if I can't fish in a spot i was fishing last week, I want to know why!

I have read as much material as I can find on this subject and even rang the National Marine Coastal Authority for more info.

I will try and put my understanding of the proposed Marine Park forward as simply as I can.

Basically, the Commonwealth Government has juristriction on the waters surrounding the Great Barrier Reef and State Government is responsible for the coastal waters along the QLD coast.

The QLD government wants to mirror the Zoning that the Commonwealth introduced on July 1.

After the new zoning was introduced by the Commonwealth, the State Government realised there were some conflicting circumstances along the coastline.

For example, 2 blokes go beach fishing and cast their lines. It's low tide and one has a stronger casting arm then the other. One fisherman could be fishing legally while the other is fishing illegally.

The QLD Government is trying to illiminate problems like this but unfortunately the quick fix is to stop fishing altogether in these "controversal areas"

The areas of coast most likely to be closed to fishing will be adjacent to National Parks or where Green Zones are nearby (good example is cape upstart, a small strip of yellow zone surrounded by a green zone. The reason why the press have stated that people who fish rivers, creeks, channels, etc will not be effected is because these areas are not green zones or national parks. (Plus, the government does not want to jeopardise the mudcrab industry.)

As for now, I don't want to comment if this is a bad thing or a good thing until everything is laid out in front of me in proper English.

Just some thoughts...

[notts_so]

Mick thank god you speaka tha englisha till now iwasnt real shore on how it all worked but you have made it a bit easyer to undastand thanks for the insight
......notts so
;D ;D ;D ;D [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]yahooo im now a bronze member

[lordy]

So I ask you all this, When the world came together to sign an agreement to take steps to reducing the output of environmentally dangerous chemicals and gasses into the air, why did the politicians decide not to partake and why does our great country produce these chemicals at one of the highest rates per pop. in the world.


Australia is closer to meeting it Kyoto target than some of the countries that have signed on. The gov hope to hit the designated figure (108%) in 2012 instead of 2010 (110% in 2010). Its just hasn't signed the paperwork (it should >:( ) unlike some who have signed and aren't meeting targets.

Only problem with Kyoto agreement is it will only deliver global reductions in emissions of 1 per cent, when many scientists say reductions in the order of 60 per cent are needed if global warming is to be addressed.

If you think we are bad check out China's increase in oil/energy consumption. Makes you wonder why we'd bother. Its effectively us installing a water saving shower head while the neighbours washing his car, sprinkling his lawn and taking 3 hour showers. But hey we saved a cup of water.

http://www.iseas.edu.sg/29sep04.ppt

[Derek Bullock]

Folks

Not that it has anything to do with this post, but you can find the recipe for Pumpkin Fruit Muffins (http://www.ausfish.com.au/cgi-ausfish/board/YaBB.cgi?board=General_Camping_Chat;action=display ;num=1098307343) by clicking here.

On a serious note though, and I dont usually get into debate on these things, I do think that some people are jumping the gun and need to get hold of all the facts.

I remember what it was like fishing with my Dad 40 years ago and I know what the difference is today. If something like what the Government is doing now hadn't happened I am sure that my son when he is my age and his son wont even know what a real live wild fish is.

So have a muffin and a nice cup of tea and think it through.

Cheers


Derek

[baldyhead]

My job, yes I do have one, requires me to interpret legislation and policy.
A question Derreck... does the above statement translate into "BUREAUCRAT"
cheers baldy

[Fishinmishin]

Damn, I thought I could rattle on about something I know not much about to vent my political anger and nobody would catch me out(thanx Lordy). Well, I still hate potiticians :P and luv my fishing, that's about all I know. :D

[Derek Bullock]

Yep it does baldy but at least spell my name right. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Derek

[peterbo3]

Hi Derek,
No one has a problem with what you do but I am a little leery about some of the info coming out of GBRMPA. I downloaded the online charts for a couple of the regions around Mackay & at the bottom is the disclaimer which advises that the chart is a guide only & that the appropriate regulations & lat/long will be the basis for all legal matters or words to that effect.
So if the chart is in error & you venture into a no-go zone & get nabbed, too bad. >:( >:( >:(The producer of the chart has a goldplated out but the boatie is a goner. :'( :'( :'(And I know GBRMPA is a Fed body but the state government is mirroring their regs.
I feel sure that this is the sort of crap that really winds people up. How does the average boatie punch in a huge number of lat/long marks into his GPS to determine a boundary. No C-Map or other card is updated yet to reflect the changes so those with plotters are no better off. It all sounds great in an office but it does not translate too well into reality.And as for consultation about any of this.............

[megafish71]

Thats the point, the State Government has now aligned its legislation to that of GBRMPA. Just like when the planets line up with the sun we have an eclipse and all sorts of strange shit takes place. All the legislation is now starting to line up so brace yourselves for the next eclipse, and shafting it will bring.

Ron

[kc]

Pete the actual legal ""Zoning Plan", is one of the most daunting and complicated documents ever printed. It appears (to some of us) to have been prited to deliberately intimidate people. As you said, quite clearly (& this has been the topic of threads before), the maps are only a guide, anyone using the park should refer to the "Zoning Plan" (if you can find one).

For the hard core few, no big deal...for the occassional family fisho who likes to take the kids down to the beach or out in a tinny a few times a year however IT IS ALL GETTING JUST TOOOOO HARD AND THIS IS WHO WILL GIVE UP!!

It is these people who will be lost to the sport and the long term effect is a sport lossing ground and participants. Maybe this is just a side effect of the closures..or maybe it is the long term agenda.

Regards

KC

[Derek Bullock]

KC is right.

Zoning PLans are a legal document and can be a bit daunting but they are not really that bad. WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO IS READ THEM. Not pick out little bits and misquote

Unfortunately the new Zoning Plans havent been published on the net, or at least I couldnt find them, and I was unable to open the New Act from home here but just to give you an idea of what a Zoning Plan can look like here is the current one for Hervey Bay. http://www.epa.qld.gov.au/publications/p00509aa.pdf/Hervey_Bay_Marine_Park_zoning_plan.pdf

By the way, I have nothing to do with the QEPA and still have an open mind on all of this.


Derek

[Gorilla_in_Manila]

Derek,
Hope you realise that the text in my original post on this thread is from the ABC website. So as for picking bits out and misquoting, you may wish to take it up with the reporter who wrote that article.
I agree it was a pretty poor piece of reporting, (and I mentioned that more info required). When I read about restrictions, I went looking for the press release on the DPI and GBRMP websites and of course found nothing. Certainly the report gave no clues about the source of the article, and I didn't know to look for the the epa website. I've since read the other post on "3600km of .... (posted 3 hours after I put up the ABC article) that quotes the full press release and it is certainly a very different document to what the ABC plucked out.

Funny you mention about having an open mind about this, coz I know a bunch of fisho's back at Byron Bay who said exactly the same thing when the Marine park was first proposed there.
As I understand it from talking to locals back home, the sequence of events at Byron has gone something like this:
1. Marine park proposed; little / vague mention of fishing restrictions.
2. Fisho's say to themselves, "I'll keep an open mind about this" until we actually see some more information.
3. Nothing seen, not much public outcry, park established.
4. Committee appointed with little or no representation from local fisho's (pro or rec) to look at usage. No fisho's seemed to know about the existance of this committee until they came out with their first usage plans.
5. With little or no general info being spread around, suddenly out comes a proposal that bans fishing from just about every place productive fishing was carried out before. The exception being the Aboriginal community who were allowed to fish for cultural events.
Not to many "open minds" in the fishing community anymore, I can tell you.
6. After much stink and effort on behalf of local fisho's a revised closure has been released, "giving back" a few tiny strips of yellow zone for line / surface fishing.
7. In supporting documentation there is provision for periodic review of the usage zones. (who gets to do the review I don't know, but I bet it will be again set up with little or no local fisho representation).
Now, call me a cynic, but my guess is future reviews ain't gunna give back great big chunks of fishing zones. Its more likely a sneaky little way for them to snip away in the furutre at what little fishing is allowed.

Anyone who is interested,

The whole Byron process (seems sneaky to me and) looks to be driven by a premeditated agenda with the objective of substantial fishing closures. Their step by step game plan has been extremely effective in achieving this outcome.

I'd be concerned that you may be getting something similar up you way.

Now, how about that, Derek is saying the new act is not available on the web. KC seems to have managed to find a copy, but finds it difficult to understand. Hardly sounds like making clear information available to the general public for comment, does it?

Oh and the first most people seem to have heard of this, is the ABC article I posted here 20 Oct. According to the press release, you have until 4 Nov to find the info, understand it and comment. ie 13 more days.

Hmmm, ...... sound familair. ::)

Anyway, this isn't even my backyard (mine's already been screwed), just thought a few of you Qld's might want to have a look into it. If not, then sit back and take whatever you get served up, and enjoy your pumpkin scones. ;) ;D

Good Luck!
Cheers
Jeff

[blaze]

Glad I live in Tassie guys, still no licence required for salt, and only about 3 small marine parks in and around the state, 1 in my area but is small and quite a distance away in an area that was rarely fished. Not many changes on the horizan either.
looks to me like you fishos up there are being shafted, ouch, thats gotta hurt
cheers
blaze
ps
we only want to increase our population by about 10000, so ya better be quick

[dfox]

Blaze- you might be lucky down there, we thought as you do and then vertually overnight we had closures without much warning, i refer to the GNS closures off moreton, it might not seem much but the apparent ease at which they were implemented is scarey, its people like us that know these area well and having regularly dived one closed area for years and never once seen a GNS and no scientific data to say the same it was closed, just wait until your favourite fishing spot is taken off you and you have no say, thats why i say we have to voice every mater! no mater how small, because if we keep giving out unchallanged theyll keep taking...foxy

[kc]

To pick up on Dereks point that the zoning plan...if you can find one....is "not that bad" I have to ask Derek...have you actually seen one??

Attached is an example of a green zone description...the legal document...not the guideline map. Derek this one has been used before but is the only one I have scanned in a fromat I can post...it is one of the really small ones only having 6 meassurement points...some have over 100 along with geodesics and meridians. My point again is this is not easy to understand for a few times a year family fisho and this is who will be lost to the sport.

As an aside, I would like you to give me your interpretation of point 6 of the description and then how this will equate to the new state zonings? It has been discussed before as a glaring example of how difficult it is for a layman (& even some experts) to understand the "zoning plan".

Regards

KC

[Glug]

KC is right people on the fringe like me will give up, after licensing came in NSW I never bothered to go fishing there. And at the moment I am thinking twice about buying a boat when I get back to Australia. The last time I came back 4WD driving was so restricted closures every where that I rarely go off road now. What is the use of having a boat if you have to spend all your time avoiding closures, having to travel hours to get to a good spot. I have been through it once with 4WD all the freedom has gone out of the past time. If your not turning back because national parks have slapped a gate across the tracks it is because an aboriginal community has closed it. Now you are restricted to private land or the desert in the middle of Australia. Even then you have restriction from oil companies, government departments so every millimetre of Australia feels like it is under the thumb of some control freak sitting behind a desk some where. Now they are starting to close down the seas and rivers in the same way while the majority of Australians sit on their backsides watching propagander and cheering the control freaks on.

This is my last post for a week or so but if fisher folk do start shouting hard now they will have no where to fish within a few years, this is the last stand for fishing.

[kc]

Glug send a copy of your post to the Boating Industry Association of Qld and the Australian Tackle Industry Association...your point is well made. You are a perfect example a someone thinking about spending money within these 2 industries but having a rethink because of the regulations.

They have already heard it from me, they have seen their sales falling away but just don't seem to equate the reasons with sales loses with the new restrictions and rules.

I am planning a meeting next week with 2 state ministers and as part of the process am collecting the many and varied books, maps and brochures I need to be sure I know the rules....I am trying to role play myself as a visiting interstate fisher or someone thinking about getting into fishing.

To date I have a GBRMPA map (with disclaimer about not being a legal document), I have a copy of the Zoning plan book (big bugger that), I have a booklet published by GBRMPA titled "An introduction to using the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park", a booklet produced by Qld Govt titled "Guide to recreational boating & Fishing in Qld", a brochure titled "Tidal Waters...A brief guide to rules & regulations from december 13 2003"" and a brochure titled "Freswater..A brief guide to rules and regulations from 13th December 2003" and another brochure (outdated) from Qld Dept Primary Industries called "Fishers'Friend".

Having now read these documents (as a mug or visitor) I notice a line in one of the documents about Coral Trout saying they have they have a 38cm min size except "Blue Spot Trout", having a 50 min and 80 Max/....so "What is a Blue Spot Trout?? Havn't they all got blue spots??. Where do I find out what a "Blue Spot Trout is?? Answer, buy a Grants Guide to fishes ($100??)

Glug is dead right......this will, either by default or design, stop people fishing and in 20 years our sport will be dead and the industries which live off us will be no more.

KC

[Derek Bullock]

KC, I am sorry if I may seem to be a know-all but I'm not. #If I appear to be then I apologise.

When you deal with this stuff all the time it does get easy. I will try and simplify that section. #I wont put in the longitude and latitude marks but read it this way.

It starts on the coast with a commencement point at low water
1. #Runs in a easterly direction to another point
2. #Runs in a south-easterly direction to another point
3. #Runs in a south-easterly direction again to another point
4. #Runs in a south-easterly direction again to another point
5. #Runs in a south-easterly direction again to another point where it agan hits the coast at low water mark
6. #Runs back along the coast at low water mark back to the commencement point

Cheers.


Derek

[kc]

Hi Derek,

& firstly mate I'm not having a go at you, just the system. Posted below is the map of the zone posted above. This has been covered before in a lenghty thread but you made the same mistake as most of us (me included) in this "not to bad" document. Point 6 says follow the coast back to commencement point at mean low water mark...this means to most of us....follow the coastline back to commencement at mean low water mark, except...in this case, it actually means cut across the bay from point to point....why..because the area inside the bay is state marine park, not federal marine park and in this case low water mark is across the front of some bays and actually does follow the coastline at mean low water mark in others.

Now with the new state legislation what is the status of this bay, Green or Blue? What is the status of all the maps...do we now need 600,000 new maps and 60,000 new zoning plans because they are now WRONG!!!!! What happens if someone using a map and plan now fishes in this particular bay (& this bay is one of many examples)

With respect Derek this is not a "not too bad" document.

The reasons as to why a bay is "State" and others are "Federal" are complex and NOWHERE in the documents does it define what is what.

[Gazza]

Good example Derek , as I'm not a GPS owner (I think that's still "legal" ? ) , I see/interpret points 2~5 to a wobbly, if not straight line ???

It maybe lawfully req'd to "know where I am" ,but how do I do that without a GPS ???

Just a SEQ estuary "black duck" , no GPS necessary ,potential tourist enquiry :-/

[nhoj]

Maybe they will make GPS/Plotters a tax deduction so that we can assist in protecting the reef.

Na. More than likely they will become compulsory if you want to fish in the regions covering the protected zones.

I wonder when the authorities release the C-Maps than they will have a disclaimer on them as well.

[BigE]

hey KC any chance of cornering someone from the GOV for a zone map(see my post at VMR open day thread) just a thought

many thanks

[kc]

Hi BigE. I am arranging a meeting with Palaszczuk & Boyle on Monday 1st November. This will be one of a number of issues we will be raising...all of which ae just as confusing.

Regards

KC

[Derek Bullock]

KC

From what you are saying then it is very confusing. #I haven't seen either the Zoning Plan or the Maps as yet. #I work in Brisbane so will try and pop down to the EPA Office and see whats about.

By the way, your map looks a bit of a mud map. #Is it the official documant. #One thing to remember is that the Zoning Plan is the law, the map isnt. #If memory serves me right the maps always have a disclaimer on them.

By the way, the Pollies really know stuff all about the actualities of all this. #They are only as good as the public servants who are actually drafting the legislation.

All Legislation in Queensland is published on the Internet. You can find the current Marine Park Act, Regulations and the current Zoning Plans here http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/Legislation%20Docs/CurrentM.htm. The new ones are yet to be printed.


Derek

[dfox]

Derek- what about the fisheries inspectors there expected to inforce these laws how lenient are they? My mate got fined for leaving a net unattended because he raced off to hospital after hed got hit by a stone fish. I feel sorry for the unsespecting public that may get caught out...foxy

[kc]

Hi Derek,

The map is the "real deal"", not a mud map and with respect, how on earth can you pass comment on the "zoning plan", being a "not too bad" document when you haven't actually seen one, nor even seen one of the 13 different maps??? Derek the "zoning plan" is without doubt one of the most complex and daunting public documents ever printed, page after page of co-ordinates, meridans & geodesics.

We all have a right to our opinions and I have no problem debating any points with anyone, regardless of their point of view, but please, be well informed before you make comments about the GBR zones......I don't profess to be an expert by any means but have been "in the thick" of RAP for over 4 years and have half a clue.

Just to put you straight on this example, and like I said there are LOTS of examples. The official map marks those 2 bays Blue (fish away) the zoning plan (or a literal translation of the zoning plans) says, no the green zone follows the coast at mean low water mark so the bay is green. Further investigation shows, no the bay is state marine park waters so the definition of mean low water mark is point to point across the mouth of those 2 bays. Now the state is saying that shoreline adjoining the green zones will now be green, except where the shoreline extends into rivers, creeks and estuaries.......so what about this bay??? The new EPA map still shows it as a blue zone but the announcement by the premier pretty clearly says this bay will be green. Confused?? Well so am I and I have "half a clue". Get your hands on a copy of the zoning plan, have a look at it and then try and tell me "hand on heart" that this document is "not too bad" and tell me, as a potential visitor to NQ for a fishing holiday...how does it make you feel?? Maybe a trip to NT chasing barra or just a bex and a good lie down is a whole lot better option.

Regards

KC

[dasher]

Yipee for me I'm back ;D Some might disagree ::) Mate it is so simple, when the touro ops put out their ads they offer a 4 year uni course to work out what the f@#$%n hell they can do. I'd look forward to that, wouldn't you. ??? :o

[dasher]

This is how easy it is to remember what constitutes a reef fish.

http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/fishguide/

How easy is that, we all have our laptop with us , don't we ::)

Apart from uni courses, what the hell we gunna do ??? ???

P.S. Hope you all read the Fishing Party Article in Lets Go Fishing November issue. If you know of any publication that would be happy for the party to submit an article please let KC know.

[baldyhead]

Here is another one to confuse the issue.
This Yellow Zone as per the map is actually out of bounds for non Aboriginal Fishers. It was declared a Yellow Zone even though there is a State Govt. ban on fishing in this area by Whites.
The QB&FP who are the Police for GBRMPA had a Officer come to our club and I asked him about fishing in this Yellow Zone and He stated that Any one other than aboriginal fishers caught fishing in this Zone would be breached.
Imagine the Rec fisher new to the area who decides to go fishing in this area using the GBRMPA Zonal Map of Cairns.. He's going to be breached for fishing there!
Confusing???? DELIBERATELY SO!
Baldy

[cooky]

Hmmm.... as many of you may be aware I've just bought my first boat (month ago). I've done 20 odd hours around NQ fishing and exploring and I do it to get away from work (and thinking too hard in general).
All this zone stuff seems too mind taxing for a nice day on the water.
The concept behind zoning seems pretty f**kin simple - so why the f**kers have to complicate it so much is beyond me. Maybe they recruited ATO (tax) policy staff? to create the rules.
I hate the fact I'm an Australian and have lived in NQ all my life and sport I'm just starting to get very keen on seems to becoming very very difficult. Probably not that difficult for you guys, but I can't even identify fish properly yet, so each catch is an exercise with a book (I take knowledgeable friends along instead). We went fishing yesterday on a reef and it was ridiculous the odd fish we caught that we had 2 different friggin books out trying to figure out legal size. My mate (knowledgeable fisher) checked one book - yep fish legal - checked the other - fish not legal - fish out of water for awhile (pressure) - threw it back - double checked only to find the f**ker was very legal... argghhhh >:(
I have added to various threads about the whole 4x4, motorbike, fish thing so won't go on here..... but as I said in to friends yesterday - I just don't get the FACT that the majority of 4x4, motorbike, boating, fishing, bushwalking enthusiasts DO IT because they ENJOY NATURE, therefore they RESPECT IT and therefore LOOK AFTER IT. who gives a ..... about the minority of f**kheads stuffing it for the rest of us - they don't do much damage in the big scheme of things.
It just really pisses me off that the extreme greens, and the people making these decisions don't ENJOY nature - they just believe they're 'doing the right thing'. How about the greenies look at all the rainforest destroyed by their mates growing pot for them? :o
They think of the environment as something that shouldn't be disturbed - should be enjoyed at ARMS LENGTH. Watched on the nature channel or something.
I'm getting mad, must calm down..... think of happy places....out in the boat....that's better......no - crap that's what this is all about..... angry again >:( >:(........

see ya ;)

[kc]

Just remeber cooky...bex & a good lie down...caaaaaalm!!

Thats better.

KC

[Derek Bullock]

Well guys, I can see that this debate is going to go nowhere so I am going to withdraw from it. You most likely have realised that I fully support what both the State and Federal Government have done in relation to the Barrier Reef and surrounding areas.

I guess it makes good Politics for those who want a "fight" just for the sake of a fight without thinking of the consequences for future generations of Aussies so stop thinking just of now only and think smart for the future.

By the way, you can expect more restrictions in the future so you best get used to it.

Its a big disapointment to me to have witnessed the rape and pillage of marine life in Queensland in my fifty odd years by both professionals and amateurs alike.

All I can say in closing is to repeat what I posted a few pages back:

I remember what it was like fishing with my Dad 40 years ago and I know what the difference is today. If something like what the Government is doing now hadn't happened I am sure that my son when he is my age and his son wont even know what a real live wild fish is.

Cheers.


Derek

[kc]

A pity you are leaving the debate Derek because you appear to have moderate opinions and just because they are different from most does not mean they are wrong...these debates are good and help educate and inform many ausfish readers.

As an aside however I get the feeling your opinions in support of the GBR closures are not based on a review of the facts, just as your position on the zoning plan being "not too bad" when you had not actually even seen one.

If you are really interested in learning some more about the closures but don't want to do so publically, send me a PM and I will send you some interesting reading matter. One thing I want to be really clear on is that TFPQ has never been about open slather "rape & pillage" access. We just believe, for a whole range of valid and sceintifically based reasons, that it could have been done a lot better and with a lot less impact on those of us who actually live up here and still protected this wonderful natural asset.

The closures were always about politics and never about science.

Regards

KC

[cooky]

I thought mini was taking the piss when I first read it. Well said Ron....

Protect is one thing, but for christs sake......

I'll respond when I'm calmer

[mini696]

I was over the top before (saying protect everything), but I still stick to my point that no area I fish has been restricted so much I cant fish there anymore.

I think it's silly to compare stepping on a few ants or midgies to taking fish from a sensitive habitat such as the reef, so I’ll leave that point where it is.

This IS a token gesture, I agree with that, and its probably a vote grab just like the Tassie Forests seem to be. Water quality and all those other things need to be considered, but surely protecting fish stocks at ground level is just as important.

I now see I was STUPID in thinking this is "Nothing but Good". My apologies for being so blind to the affect this has on your fishing.

I see that the problem isn't restrictions on catch limits, or size limits. It's the restricting of the areas you can fish that is wrong. Again my apologies for speaking before thinking.

Can someone please give me examples of an area you used to go and fish which is now restricted?? As I said above, I personally haven't seen any problems with the areas I fish. So I would like to hear about your fishing spots which have been affected.


Just as a side note, I was talking to the Marine Parks guys when I was working with them. They go to Wreck Island every 12-24 months (Wreck Island is a completly restricted area, nothing is allowed there at all).

When they go its always covered in rubbish (the photos they show are shocking, it looked like a dump with thongs, plastic, steel drums and other mess. Because there is no human contact, the rubbish builds up and makes the area worse than if people were allowed access.

Remembering that made me realise restricting human contact to certain places isn’t always good for the ecosystem.

[cooky]

thanks for that mini.

I didn't do much offshore fishing before so can't comment on my favourite grounds. I'm frustrated because there seems to be confusion and I really believe in KISS - Keep it Simple Stupid. There should be restrictions of sorts, and it's not the NOW that I'm worried about it's more what I've heard might be on the table for the NEAR FUTURE.

Some of the potential things happening to restrict activities in north qld just sound plain ridiculous to me.

[where_is_dave]

Remembering that made me realise restricting human contact to certain places isn’t always good for the ecosystem.


I've always thought of us as an integral part of the system. There is a need for us to productively fit in to the ecosystem and ensure its continued existence. We will always have an impact we have to make it as positive/minimal as possible.

I don't think that there are many people (particularly on this site) that don't want the reef and the rest of the marine environment looked after so our kids and grand kids etc can enjoy it. But lets try a balanced approach backed by real, publicly available and scientific research. Rather than the current regime of sneaky, closed doors political deals (unless they're made by TFPQ, LOL).

Ranting completed.

[baldyhead]

It's a SHAME that DEREK has decided to take his bat and ball and go home. [smiley=bigcry.gif]

Mini, have a look at the copy of some of the areas that we in Cairns have lost, it is about 75%. We rec fishers did the right thing in the RAP process and showed the Bureaucrats where we actually fished, all our closer in rubble patches etc and they turned most of them into Green Zones.

When the weather comes down there are an enormous number of Commercial and Rec fishers having to share a limited area of reef now which is concentrating a lot of pressure on the remaining blue and yellow zones.

The other factor involved in this which has not been taken into consideration by the Bureaucrats is SAFETY. When the rec fisher on a calm day gets to an area full of other fishers and decides to venture a little further out to get away from the masses in his 4 to 5m dinghy, he suddenly finds that the wind has turned and or strengthened and that his passage home is now fraught with danger.(Now I know that I will get howled down by the Bureaucrats and like minded sods saying that the fisher shouldn't be there or that he should know better etc, but lets be realistic, as this is what happens in a real world that most of these sods and bureaucrats have never been in. As a matter of fact a Bureaucrat named Virginia Chadwick said at a meeting I attended that all people in small dinghys carried a GPS and therefore would have no trouble in staying out of the GREEN ZONES. This is Bureaucratic experience @ its finest.)

Imagine if this rec fisher has a couple of kiddies and his missus on board in his brand new tinny on holidays up here and has no idea of how the conditions in this area can change and become really dangerous for the inexperienced within half an hour.

And as DEREK pointed out WE ARE GOING TO GET SHAFTED EVEN MORE IN THE FUTURE!!!

[bugman]

Um Baldy .....

Far be it for me to pick and arguement but there does seem to be a hell of a lot of blue and yellow there compared to green.

I'm am however red/green colour blind ;D

Bugman

[baldyhead]

Yea M8 shared between possibly 600 fishers on a good W/E and a lot of that blue is unproductive

[Derek Bullock]

And as DEREK pointed out WE ARE GOING TO GET SHAFTED EVEN MORE IN THE FUTURE!!!

Somehow I don't think they were the words I used Baldy.

Do you misquote the Zoning Plans and everything else in relation to the GBRMP as much as you do people on here.

Thats what spoils good debate. I think I said it before somewhere, stick to the facts (or in this case the truth).


Derek ;D ;D ;D ;D

[cooky]

Derek - not a big one. I realise you like fishing and camping, but to settle my mind - "do you own a boat?"

[kc]

Hi Derek,

While it is all a bit ""seceret mens business""it appears after a bit of digging that the agenda for the GBR is for for 50% green zones by 2015...add that to the yellow & it is not going to leave very much for those of us who actually live up here.

Email me on kc@whitsunday.net.au and I will send you down some papers for your consideration. After you have an objective read you might just become as paranoid as most North Queenslanders are.

Also a little teaser...in Germany...the birthplace of green politics...the following activities are 100% banned.....catch and release fishing, live bait fishing, all forms of fishing competitions.

The Queensland Conservation Council calls recreational fishing "barbaric" and you only need to visit the PETA website to see the feelings of the pointy end of the green movements attitude towards what we do.

It is all getting pretty tough and without any doubt there are those in our community who want fishing banned, just like there are those who want unfetted access to rape and pillage....from my limited experience there are a lot more in the "ban"" brigade then those in our ranks who don't care about the future of the fishery and "unfortunately" via the green party, they have had too much political influence for far too long and all TFP is trying to do is redress that situation.

PS : Glad you didn't leave the debate......it needs someone like you on the "Dark side"".

Cheers

KC

[baldyhead]

1. By the way, you can expect more restrictions in the future so you best get used to it.

2. And as DEREK pointed out WE ARE GOING TO GET SHAFTED EVEN MORE IN THE FUTURE!!!

Somehow I don't think they were the words I used Baldy.

Bloody hell derek it's about time that you got rid of your BLINKERS M8.
Misquoted ...my arse! That SNIDE remark of yours in 1 above means exactly what I wrote in 2 above!

3. Do you misquote the Zoning Plans and everything else in relation to the GBRMP as much as you do people on here.

My integrity is intact derek and I will let the other users of this site be the judge on that!

baldy.