Closed to rec fishers but not US bombs?

[Glug]

In Mr Howards latest proposed agreements US aircraft carriers will be firering missiles into Australia, naturaly rec fishing will not be allowed any where near the flight paths of these smart bombs. How convenient that closures are already worked out.

The moving of bases from Japan where objections to the bases grow daily were talked about last year in Japanese news papers. It was then suggest that the bases be moved to Australia and Howards reply was that he would welcome them. Well it looks like it is back on Howards agenda so when fishing don't forget to give way, in more ways than one.

[Kerry]

So to start with, where might this be occuring?

Cheers, Kerry.

[megafish71]

So to start with, where might this be occuring?

Cheers, Kerry.


I've heard that bases may be built in the NT and Cape York.

Ron

[Dug]

Shoalwater Bay! A top spot and a beautiful environmental gem.
I really have no problem with the Australian Army using it and joint exercises with defense partners but US bases are a bit over the top for my liking.


On the radio news this morning, an American F16 shot up an American school with 23, 20-mm canon rounds because it thought it was the target range.

Maybe the education minister Brendan Nelson has a deal with George Bush to bring the education Unions into line? And sort out the funding rows once and for all????

[Glug]

They are already trying to back pedal on this one, first of I heard South Australia, Shoalwater Bay and NT. BUT nothing being settled other options were being held open that would show Australia had the backing of the U.S. in Asia. (the article I read has already dissapeared or I can't find it)

If the Australian Navy can manage to torpeado the beach in Jervis Bay just think what the U.S. can do with smart missiles. They have already got them smart enough to go where they want to instead of where they are told to go.

In Japan the US Militery even managed to crash a helicopter into the grounds of a local university and then the US military closed the grounds off to the Japanese police and air authorities so they could not investigate it. :( :o ???

If half the dopes are on dope, whos the dope thats doppy enough to let them loose? :-X

[Dug]

Jet Strafes N.J. School With Ammunition

By WAYNE PARRY
LITTLE EGG HARBOR, N.J. (AP) - A National Guard F-16 fighter jet on a nighttime training mission strafed an elementary school with 25 rounds of ammunition, authorities said Thursday. No one was injured.

The military is investigating the incident that damaged Little Egg Harbor Intermediate School in southern New Jersey shortly after 11 p.m. Wednesday. The school is a few miles from a military firing range.

Police were called when a custodian who was the only person in the school heard what sounded like someone running across the roof.

Police Chief Mark Siino said officers noticed punctures in the roof. Ceiling tiles had fallen into classrooms, and there were scratch marks in the asphalt outside.


The pilot of the single-seat jet was supposed to fire at a ground target on the firing range three and half miles from the school, said Col. Brian Webster, commander of the 177th Fighter Wing of the New Jersey Air National Guard, which is responsible for the range. He did not know what led to the school getting shot up.





The plane was 7,000 feet in the air when the shots were fired. The gun, an M61-A1 Vulcan cannon, is located in the plane's left wing. It fires 2-inch-long bullets that are made of lead and do not explode, said Webster.





``The National Guard takes this situation very seriously,'' said Lt. Col. Roberta Niedt, a spokeswoman for the state Department of Military and Veterans Affairs. ``The safety of our people and the surrounding communities are our foremost concern.''





The jet that fired the rounds was assigned to the 113th Wing of the District of Columbia Air National Guard, based at Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland. The plane returned there after firing the shots, Webster said.





He would not identify the pilot or detail possible disciplinary measures.





Mike Dupuis, president of the township's Board of Education, said school workers are mindful that the firing range is nearby.





``Being so close to the range, that's always in the back of our minds. It is very scary. I have children in that school and relatives that work there,'' he said.





Schools in New Jersey were closed Thursday because of a teachers convention.





The 2,400-acre Warren Grove range, about 30 miles north of Atlantic City, has been used by the military since the end of World War II, long before the surrounding area was developed.





In 2002, an Air National Guard F-16 that had been practicing attacks at the range crashed along the Garden State Parkway. The plane's pilot ejected safely, and no one on the ground was hurt.





Errant practice bombs were blamed for forest fires that burned more than 11,000 acres of the Pine Barrens near the range in 1999 and more than 1,600 acres in 2002.

[Derek Bullock]

....... naturaly rec fishing will not be allowed any where near the flight paths of these smart bombs ........ #

Uuuum ..... Glug. What has this to do with your original comment or am I missing something.


Derek

[Glug]

Derek when ordanance is being fired over sea, as in this case between aircraft carriers and coastal or inland targets. All vessels are order from the area including rec fishers and that area can be big and some time permant closures may result. We are talking about long range testing here as well as coastal. Hope this explains

[Derek Bullock]

Hasn't this always happened with exercises around Shoalwater Bay. What's new #???

From my reading of the news this is all in relation to a joint exercise between Australia and the US scheduled for 2007.


Derek

[webby]

Might be a quick and easy way to go fishing, sit on the boundaries till their finished their straffing runs, then rip in and pick up all the fish floating on the surface ;D

[Glug]

Might be right there Webby, it may the future way to rec fish ;D,

Yes Derek, this has always been the case BUT this is about long term testing and US testing bases in Australia, not just one joint exercise.

[Derek Bullock]

Glug

Can you give me some information on where you got that from. I cant find it anywhere.

All the information I have relates to the 2007 exercise.


Derek

[Kerry]

....Uuuum ..... Glug. What has this to do with your original comment or am I missing something....

Actually Derek has a valid point here as really some have totally lost the point.

Now with regards Shoalwater if rec fishers are anywhere near the live firing range then they obviously don't know what green zones are but then for the past 40 years live firing there really hasn't been much of a drama.

Like if this is something that is actually new #::)

Really some should actually check the FACTS before making tree hugging green sensationalist statements as for 1) the area for miles and miles and miles around the range is now green 2) they've been bombing the crap out of Townsend for the past 40 years 3) there's very few "rec" boats that even have the capacity to actually get that far in the first place, even when it wasn't green 4) and the the worst incident in this area over the past 40 years was one of out own F1-11's that crashed on Mt Flinders some time ago with all the ongoing radio active issues.

On the brighter side if this area wasn't under the control of the commonwealth (army, navy and airforce) then it would be a developers dream, thank heavens the developers sit on the other side of the fence #[smiley=2thumbsup.gif] #

Quite frankly I'd rather see the military control this place than it being stuffed up by arseholes.

Cheers, Kerry.
#

[mackmauler]

and the the worst incident in this area over the past 40 years was one of out own F1-11's that crashed on Mt Flinders some time ago with all the ongoing radio active issues.




And I drank the water running off that hill for a few days[smiley=speechless.gif]

[Tezza985]

If they were rearly smart bombs!

Wouldn't they just find their way to Parliament House ;D ::)

[Kerry]

And I drank the water running off that hill for a few days[smiley=speechless.gif]

That water coming through that system would still probably be better than any city anywhere in Oz, there would probably be more background radiation from a household fluro :D Really I'd be more concerned with cattle in the area, that really spoils the tea ;D

Cheers, Kerry.

[Glug]

Derek I read it in two places on the internet this morning but as I said earlier I can not find anything myself now. I just had another look and found this, it is not one that I seen earlier but content is close. http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,11289590%255E952,00.html
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,11291819%255E421,00.html

I think yahoo had some thing earlier and then they had another news statement saying that the defense minister was now playing the story down about smart bombs being dropped on Australia. #http://au.news.yahoo.com/

Nothing about the proposed agreements to test them that I seen this morning.

[Derek Bullock]

Glug

I think what we are seeing is a lot of newspaper sensationalism. Journos trying to sell news. If you look closely through each one of those articles they still both refer to the joint exercise in 2007.

Will see how this progresses but as indicated earlier, I dont think it has anything to do with rec fishing as the heading on this post suggests.

Cheers


Derek

[lordy]

If they were rearly smart bombs!

Wouldn't they just find their way to Parliament House ;D ::)

No. Parliment house is protected by its aura of stupidity. No signs of intelligent life to target.

[Glug]

Glug

I think what we are seeing is a lot of newspaper sensationalism. Journos trying to sell news. #If you look closely through each one of those articles they still both refer to the joint exercise in 2007. #

Will see how this progresses but as indicated earlier, I dont think it has anything to do with rec fishing as the heading on this post suggests.

You could be right Derek I ignored the one that suggested 30 new U.S bases as 30 seemed over the top and it could have just been a typo for 3 as this article dissapeared quickly. However, I do know that the present government is jockeying for U.S. Bases and any coastal or new bombing ranges would affect access to waters and the land around them.

I also know that the U.S. military stated that it was not interest in setting up bases in Australia, when it was suggested in the Japanese press that bases could be moved to Australia where there was more land for training. They were after the removal of 5,000 marines from Japan to Australia. Mr Howard replied at the time he would welcome any U.S. Bases.

One of any governments tricks is to leak news to the press and cause an over reaction so they can introduce an "acceptable" compromise later. The old saying still goes where there is smoke there is fire, as you say see how it progresses.








Derek

[Glug]

On the brighter side if this area wasn't under the control of the commonwealth (army, navy and airforce) then it would be a developers dream, thank heavens the developers sit on the other side of the fence #[smiley=2thumbsup.gif] #


Quite frankly I'd rather see the military control this place than it being stuffed up by arseholes.

I agree but depends who the arseholes are. I don't have any thing against the military as my father was in it for 20 years. #Australian bases have never been as restrictive as the U.S. ones, most people don't even realise how much of Australia the military bases cover. #

New Bases would not affect the big city dwellers much until they try to go to their favourite holiday spot. #I can't say the same about the small town boys and a lot of them have more time for fishing. #Rec fishing is facing closure in a big way, those that don't mind being finally penned to fishing in a concrete fish farm have nothing to worry about. #Those that like to get out into the ocean and rivers have a lot to worry about.

Where I used to fish in Wollongong is all fenced off with notices promising a big fine to any one fishing there. The area is not used much just a few jetties but no reason on the notices is given. Possibly pollution or liability insurance costs, lots of lease holders, private land owners and government bodies are closing access to the public because of liability costs. If in doubt ask the 4WD drivers who are finding themselves using private 4WD parks, which for them is the same as concrete fish tanks.

Back to military bases; any new U.S. bases will take over large areas of land, access to any rivers or creeks in them will be closed. #Navel bases will cause coastal restrictions and as you say more green zones will be created like the one you mentioned to keep people out of bombing approaches. #Or possibly the green zones have already been created for these areas.

As I said before Australian bases don't worry me so much an increase would but the Australian public giving up access to Australian resource for a foriegn country does woory me. #My logic is to shout before it happens not after, after is too late. Go back to 4WD drivers they left it to late and look that them now, they have fourbies with no where to go but their fourby farms.

[Derek Bullock]

Thats because fourby drivers went out there on seek and destroy missions as some of them even still do. Don't tell me I am wrong, I have seen it.

The restrictions we now see in place whether it be on land or sea are as a result of people doing the wrong thing and bad management in the past. It's now time to try and put it all right again but sadly in some cases we can't.

Your quote - "New Bases would not affect the big city dwellers much until they try to go to their favourite holiday spot. I can't say the same about the small town boys and a lot of them have more time for fishing. Rec fishing is facing closure in a big way, those that don't mind being finally penned to fishing in a concrete fish farm have nothing to worry about. Those that like to get out into the ocean and rivers have a lot to worry about." Thats purely unbased and in my opinion biased conjecture on your part.

It seems to me that some people will look for all sorts of reasons but the real ones when arguing against closures. To now try and blame the possibility of American Military Bases is total stupidity.



Derek

[Glug]

Thats because fourby drivers went out there on seek and destroy missions as some of them even still do. Don't tell me I am wrong, I have seen it.

#To now try and blame the possibility of American Military Bases is total stupidity.



Derek
I agree some drivers. but to blame it all on stupidy is is just doing what you told me is total stupidy ;D

Just hope I am stupid, only the future will tell Derek. But I'm not blaming it all on military bases it is government policies that make the closures. Most people blame the greens but if it did not suit the government of the time it would not happen. ;D

[Derek Bullock]

It wasnt me who said it but I do recall somewhere that it went through parliament without one no vote from any of the parties.

Is that true??


Derek

[NeilD]

Just as long as they don't blow up Island head Creek and Im still allowed in there they can do what they like. As Kerry said it is only the army restrictions that keep developers out. I would have to say that the area is probably one of the most spectacular coastal areas in Queensland.

Cheers Neil

[Kerry]

As Neil noted it's places like this that will survive long after developers have stuffed what's left of the coast and for what? basically their own greed
http://www.cqnet.com.au/~user/mattk/images/peace.jpg
There's no bombs here and quite frankly all this is a hysterical media beatup on the days in between important issues, like there's not even another footprint in the sand and for that if it takes a few bombs further north to keep it this way then so be it.

Cheers, Kerry.