Jenny crabs

[devocean]

Has a discussion with a bloke last night on the topic of Jennys. I reckon that jennys over a certain size should be able to be taken as they stop breeding when they get to big. He reckons that they never stop breeding and they should be protected. He also reckons that they shoud have a closed season on crabs as well. I was just wondering what peoples opinions on jennys were and if they klnow whether they do stop reproducing when they get big. Also an opinion on wherher there should be a closed season for crabs as well.

Cheers Devocean

[macdwp01]

Has a discussion with a bloke last night on the topic of Jennys. I reckon that jennys over a certain size should be able to be taken as they stop breeding when they get to big. He reckons that they never stop breeding and they should be protected. He also reckons that they shoud have a closed season on crabs as well. I was just wondering what peoples opinions on jennys were and if they klnow whether they do stop reproducing when they get big. Also an opinion on wherher there should be a closed season for crabs as well.


Cheers Devocean

Yeah don't know about the jenny's but crabs only live for about 3 years and obviously they are very fast growers so i suppose that law would be pointless. I think a closed season would be benefical but do we need one. Personally i wouldn't mind a closed season. Maybe during spawning season. However during winter not many people target crabs so i suppose that is basically a closed season.

[megafish71]

Try this link for what I believe to be the best Mud Crab management plan. However it is to late for Queensland to go down this path.
http://www.fisheries.nt.gov.au/servlet/page?_pageid=160&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&_type=site&_fsiteid=196&_fid=56060&_fnavbarid=25890&_fnavbarsiteid=196&_fedit=0&_fmode=2&_fdisplaymode=1&_fcalledfrom=1&_fdisplayurl=

Ron

[macdwp01]

Try this link for what I believe to be the best Mud Crab management plan. However it is to late for Queensland to go down this path.
http://www.fisheries.nt.gov.au/servlet/page?_pageid=160&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&_type=site&_fsiteid=196&_fid=56060&_fnavbarid=25890&_fnavbarsiteid=196&_fedit=0&_fmode=2&_fdisplaymode=1&_fcalledfrom=1&_fdisplayurl=

Ron
That is a surprising system but i must say i strongly disagree with the taking of female crabs whether berried or not. These are breeders worth their weight in gold.

[megafish71]

Mac, I believe that the proof is in he fishery up there. You could get of a plane today in Darwin, go straight to the harbour ( even if you have never been there before ) get in a boat and put your pots in, and within a few hours have your self a good feed of crabs. During the seven years I lived up there I only ever took 1 crab pot with me when going fishing in the harbour. Set the pot in a creek and spend the rest of the day fishing in the harbour and come back and collect my pot on my way back to the ramp. Without fail I would always have at least 4 good sized crabs. Just the right amount for a nice feed.
The biggest problem here in Qld with the mud crab fishery is that there is not enough adult bucks to service all of the reproductive Jenny's. Just my opinion though.

Cheers Ron

[jaybee]

My brother lives in NSW on a small creek he regualarly crabs and fishes. he beleives the size limits are Ludicrous, (too small) so he uses the qld size limits, he doesnt keep females in egg, and tends to only keep the larger females. the only time he has had a bad season is when they get un seasonal rains, and over the Christmas break has to contend with hords of tourists. i have often asked the same question, if people are taking females, how is it, the catch rate remains static, is it because they are closer to deep water, as i beleive, muddies travel to deeper oceon water to breed. (read it somewhere)
cheers
Joe.

[jimbob]

I also heard that once over a certain size they stop breeding & tend to gice the bucks that want a bit ;D a flogging. I am not sure how true this is but it sounds as though it could be possible. I think someone put a post up a while ago stating that QLD may be able to keep jenny's over a certain size.
Cheers Jamie

[Mick]

If we start taking the old and unfertile jenny's (grandma crabs), who's going to spoil the little children mudcrabs at christmas? Who's going to cook the sunday roasts for the mudcrab family? Grandma muddies have feeling too ya know!

Mudcrab Mick

[devocean]

What about mother in law jennys?Mick I reckon those young bucks woud like us to get rid of them

[Mick]

dunno mate, noone would want to eat my mother in law

[MikeC]

This question of old female crabs surfaces from time to time.
A while back some chap who worked in Fisheries published a book about them, and I'm pretty certain he categorically stated that female crabs NEVER lose the ability to breed. That's good enough for me. IF they could no longer breed, and IF we were to be allowed to take the largest females who's to say they are in the age group that's incapable of breeding? If they're not berried who's to say that they aren't about to become so? Can't ask them!
Personally I'm happy to leave the female crabs alone, and I also believe they never lose the capacity to breed.
The argument, if it could be called that, that we should be able to take females as well as males to decrease pressure on the male population is a load of crap in my opinion. The only result would be that crabbers would return home with more than they otherwise would have.
The crabbing regulations in NSW have much to answer for in regard to Qld's declining mudcrab population. I used to work for Harbours and Marine and it was sickening to see the mortality rate of the illegal shipments of crabs that were liberated after being intercepted by the Boating Patrol. Many times hundreds yes hundreds of undersized and female crabs perished because they had been too long out of the water. They were released in the hope that some might survive, but, generally, if a muddie has been out of the water for in excess of 24hrs it'll die. Those crabs and many more like them paid a very high price for people's greed.
My brother lives in Darwin and yes the crabbing's good, but that region has suffered nowhere near as much habitat degradation as SEQld, and, being tropical, is prime mudcrab territory. Water quality is also much better. The waters of Sth Qld are in an embarrassingly poor condition. The Territory's becoming more and more developed, though, so I wonder how things will be in 15 yrs or so.
Any claim that the legalised, wholesale taking of males and females alike will actually IMPROVE the fishery just doesn't impress me. Sadly, I believe closed a closed season plus restocking is our best hope.

Mike

[baldyhead]

Well I have another opinion. Having spent 18 years crabbing in a professional capacity I can say without any fear of doubt THAT I have NEVER seen a buck having sex with a jenny over the size of 140mm EVER!!!! I have taken crabs every way imaginable and the norm is that the bucks mate with jennys from about 60/70mm to about 140mm. After a while you don't need a measure to be able to pick a legal crab as you can do this easily by eye. I have actually seen jennys over 200mm.
It is a problem when the fishery is limited to the taking of either the male or the female of the species ONLY as it causes an inbalance of the species unless the species can change their sex to either male or female to correct this inbalance AND crabs are not this versatile unfortunately.
In areas of heavy harvesting by both recreational and commercial fishers it is almost impossible to catch a legal buck but you will catch heaps of jennys and some of them are huge. Then after a few years of this the fishery declines because of this inbalance.
The NT Government got it as close to right as possible and its about time that Scumbag Beattie and his mates took the lead from them.
ANYWAY THATS MY OPINION!
baldy

[MAL]

Hi Baldy, i reckon you hit the nail right on the head.
Cheers Mal. ;D
PS. I believe we have the best fishing regs in Australia, the Northern Territory.

[Dug]

Captive breeding and restocking must be the go for all species. QWe have destroyed so much of the normal breeding areas, mangroves etc, if we want crabs and fish we need to start looking at replenishing the juvenile stocks.

[Gazza]

While fighting the "good fight" for a bloody 3Litre MILKBOTTLE to be specifically allowed #::) , rather than regs to specifically DISALLOW their use (technically #:-X)

I'd also like #;D ;D ;D ;D for XMAS/CRABMAC? to consider:-
2 Jennies (non-berried #::) ) OVER 16 or 17cms.....a-l-l-o-w-e-d!! and incl. in the same total baglimit.

Please #;)

(of course they may dick around with this total as well, i think?.... #:-/ )
p.s. NT with 13-buck 14-Jenny ,is a tinsy bit small #:-X

[megafish71]

Your dead right Baldy, But the problem with Qld is the damage has already been done. The only way to really improve the quality of the mud crab fishery in Qld would be to completely close the fishery for a few years, we all know that will never happen. So we just have to put up with an ever increasingly depleted fishery.

Ron

[Heath]

When I lived in Sydney we used to do a lot of crabbing. The mud crab fishery down there leaves SE Qld for dead, in regards to size and quantity. When I moved up here the most noticable thing for me, was the shear number of people who threw a crab trap in. Just about everyone who is cooee of a creek or river has a few traps. Another thing is traps themselves. In NSW you are allowed 5 dillys & 1 trap, up here you are allow a total of 5 traps and/or dillys. Naturally traps are the most popular. Bait them up & leave em for a few days. With dillys you can't do that, they must be checked every few hours. This naturally requires the use of a boat & also several hours to monitor & check your pots.

Finally there is the regulations. NSW has a bag 5 of five muddies in total with females being released if in berry. Qld has a bag of 10 & the crabs must be bucks. I reckon we need 2 things. #A closed season for a few years & then a revised bag limit. 5 crabs is plenty & be allowed to take females not in berry. When I first started crabbing up here all we could get is undersized bucks. The ratio of male to female caught was noticable and a concern.
In NSW the number of under sized crabs we caught was minimal. The actual size of the crabs were to be seen to be believed.

[MikeC]

Baldy - there's too many jennies?
Bag limits sure would help, assuming people abide by them. But to advocate the taking of females because they outnumber males??? Where's the logic in that?
If it could be proven that big jennies don't breed then that'd be fine, but anecdotal evidence is insufficient.
mike

[baldyhead]

Mike......you can tell some people some of the time....and others just dont want to pull their heads outta their ARSES!
This is the problem that we have with QLD DPI fisheries Minister, managers and so called advisers on crabmac and so on. These people don't want to know of REAL LIFE EXPERIENCES they just want THEORY, ie, someone who knows fu*k all about the fishery and only what they can find in books or listen to sh*t from Academic so called experts.
THIS IS THE REAL PROBLEM in OUR fishery.
And if I have offended anybody....too bloody bad!
baldy

[baldyhead]

Dug you are on the money. Crab restocking run on a scheme similar to the fish restocking is a brilliant idea. I have a friend who is a crab farmer. He has a thriving business selling hundreds of thousands of QLD muddies @ 20mm tip to tip to the Asian growers. It has cost him a fortune setting it up and getting it right but now he is reaping the profits. He used to send big muddies to the Asian markets but found that it was more lucrative to send the babies to the growers over there.
If only our fisheries managers would get involved I am sure that there is a crab restocking future in QLD.
baldy

[devocean]

I spoke to a guy yesterday who owns a mud crab farm just south of where I live and he agrees with baldy on the jenny issue. He also belives that big jennys wont breed with bucks and will often kill smaller bucks when they try to breed.

The big question I t believe is that the governmnemt puts all this legislation in place but where is the research behind this legislation? Where is the reasoning?

Just out of interest too, this same guy was telling me about crabs they have come across which are bucks but have rounded cresecents underneath. He reckons they are adapting to survive longer by becoming females. I have only ever caught oner crab like this, has anyone out there in ausfish land ever encountered one of these crabs?

Devocean

[baldyhead]

Yea Devo I have seen a few, but never berried. Got em with 3 and 4 working claws too.
baldy

[Daintreeboy]

Webby put a post up a while back about this. It had something to do with a review of the crabbing regs in QLD and a possibility that up to 2 females could be kept with a min size limit of around 17 cm (leaves a bit of leeway with what you were saying Baldy, at 17 (or maybe 19 cm) there would be no doubt the crab has past it's breeding days). Plus, the males would be reduced to 5 per person also. To me this comes more into line with general common sense and may not be perfect but is surely better than stripping the system of big breeding males.
Anecdotal evidence from professional fisherpeople is and should be a big part of any research undertaken by anyone involve in the fishery. You can't tell me that a scientist can spend 12 months working under controlled conditions and get all the results. Pros do it for a living and are a vital source of info. They are being made to keep comprehensive diaries now, part of the reason for which is for research etc. A decade of crabbing info would be invaluable to me if I was doing a study on mud crabs.
Cheers, Baldy.

[baldyhead]

the legal size for either buck or jenny should be 150mm. This will stop any confusion. As I stated earlier I have NEVER seen a buck having sex with a jenny bigger than 140mm in 18 years of professional crabbing.This covers a large area from Lucinda in the south to Pt Stewart in the north.
cheers baldy