Redlands Boat Ramp: The Fishing Party Submission

[kc]

Below is TFPQ submission sent to every Redlands Bay Councillor as well as relavent State MP's.

Just as many of you did with the Arlington Reef submission, It would be highly benificial if you could write in support of TFPQ submission (rather than doing your own)...solidarity and a "voting block" is far more effective than an individual voice.

I will attempt to post links but don't really have the computer smarts, so if I mess up, maybe someone else can pick up the ball. Also someone (Derek...hint, hint) might like to word a support template.

Again guys, these things are just the thin edge of the wedge but by now having an organised (or in my case disorganised) voice we really can make them sit up and take notice.

Regards

KC

Open Letter to Redlands Shire Councillors

It is of great concern to the members, and 30,000 supporters of The Fishing Party (Qld) (Voters who cast a primary vote for TFPQ at the recent federal election) that your council is intending to reduce the available facilities for recreational fishing and boating in your shire.

Plans to reduce the available car/trailer parking spaces at the Weinam Creek Boat Ramp from the current (& already inadequate) level of 72, down to “about” 57 is completely at odds with the growth in boat ownership in your bayside shire and at odds with the Transport Ministers claim that boat ownership is growing at twice the rate of population growth (6% Vs 3%).

We have Governments at all levels trying to encourage physical activity in children, your own council promoting the benefits of bayside living and yet this proposal flies in the face of common sense. A reduction of 21% in facilities while demand grows at 6%.

The apparent contempt you hold for the public consultation process is typical of government arrogance towards our input. Why would you have a public consultation phase over the Christmas period? The release of the public consultation document on the 24th December with a closing date of 14th January appears designed to thwart the process, particularly given the large amount of time, during this period, when council officers are actually on holidays. This period is in fact only 9 working days.

That plans were well advanced before any input opportunity was announced is another clear example of the contempt with which Governments treat the input of the general public….preconceived ideas and preconceived agendas are becoming an all too common symptom of Governments forgetting that YOU work for US.

The public pay for these facilities every time they register a vessel, and we pay in increasing numbers.

Recreational fishing and boating and the lifestyle and family advantages is a large factor in the growth and prosperity your shire enjoys.

The Fishing Party (Qld) was born of the frustration of Government and bureaucratic arrogance and stood on a shoestring budget at the last federal election. It achieved results as high as 20.6% of the vote in some areas and the results our fledgling organization achieved have not been lost on politicians at both state and federal level.
Recreational fishers make up 25% of the population of this state and in your shire; the figure may be even higher.

The tourism industry is obviously very important to your shire and we understand the need to provide adequate facilities to service the needs of this industry but NOT at the expense of those who live and work in your shire and NOT at the expense of the ratepayers #& voters.

The Fishing Party (Qld) started in North Queensland due to changes to our access to Northern waterways, it has already spread to Cape York and now to the SE Corner to a point where we are clearly the fastest growing political party in Australia.
No Government wants to test the will of recreational fishers to protect their patch, there are just too many of us.

The Fishing Party (Qld) has already changed the course of political history in this country by way of handing control of the Senate to the Howard Government. We have the numbers and if necessary the will to make this a major political and media issue and we ask that you pay careful heed to your constituents.

Make your decision on behalf of your constituents, not vested interests.

Yours Faithfully

Kevin Collins
Chairman

Some Email adresses below


dons@redland.qld.gov.au

alanba@redland.qld.gov.au

CraigO@redland.qld.gov.au

helenm@redland.qld.gov.au

karenw@redland.qld.gov.au

alanb@redland.qld.gov.au

debrah@redland.qld.gov.au

murraye@redland.qld.gov.au

tonib@redland.qld.gov.au

johnb@redland.qld.gov.au

peterd@redland.qld.gov.au

debrah@redland.qld.gov.au

[Derek Bullock]

I will attempt to post links but don't really have the computer smarts, so if I mess up, maybe someone else can pick up the ball. Also someone (Derek...hint, hint) might like to word a support template.

KC

As mentioned previously I am not a Fishing Party member. #

The Arlington Reef matter was one where I saw the GBRMPA possibly going to reduce even more Rec Fishers access to a fishing area and chose to assist people with a submission.

I have mentioned previously my reasons for not supporting the Fishing Party and one of them being the lack of, in my opinion, professionalism and a radical element.

It is my view that the Fishing Party submission to the Redland Shire confirms my personal belief. What I see is arrogance and NOT an objective and sensible submission to the Council but an attack on them. #

The submission uses the terms "bureaucratic arrogance" #"government arrogance" and "all too common symptom of Governments forgetting that YOU work for US" and in my view has insulted the intelligence of good honest representative councillors.

For this reason I will not be taking part in any further discussion on posts in support of The Fishing Party.

Cheers


Derek

[DR]

c'mon Derek, i think your being a bit harsh. these guys are fisherman not politicians, they have to start somewhere.
while their choice of words may be a bit 'honest' they are what a lot of people who use these ramps feel. they could choose their words more carefully & still be ignored by the council, which in my dealings & others i have known, do not particularly care too much for constituants that don't live on the waterfront in the cleveland, redlands area.
from the post elsewhere around here they are trying to rush this through ( already made a decision ) before anyone really has time to comment.
where were your good, honest representative councillers when all this happened?? :-X probably on holidays with everyone else.

[PinHead]

"c'mon Derek, i think your being a bit harsh. these guys are fisherman not politicians, they have to start somewhere. "

These guys actually wanted to be politicains that is why they stood for Senate seats at the last election.
"The Fishing Party (Qld) has already changed the course of political history in this country by way of handing control of the Senate to the Howard Government. We have the numbers and if necessary the will to make this a major political and media issue and we ask that you pay careful heed to your constituents"

I do not know where TFP has created political history. I would dispense with TFP pats on the back in the letter. If TFP is as strong as made out, then there is no need to go on about how many votes gained, changing history etc etc. To me, that indicates a lil boy trying to play with big boys by big noting himself. By all means, contact the councillors regarding this matter but I feel a less threatening and less self grandiose letter may achieve more.

[kc]

Derek & Pinhead are both right about us "sounding off" but we are not about to apologise for it...unfortunately, it appears that nice guys always come last.

Our submissions, on any fishing related matter, will always try to hit politicians with the only thing we think makes one iota of difference....how many votes are in it and I doubt that any Redlands Bay councillor has even heard of us so really do need "education".

We are not politicians but just ordinary rec fishos backed into a corner and trying to have a bit of a go at fighting back.

We may well be wrong and should continue to trust our variuos levels of Government to do what it is supposed to do and protect the rights of their constituents...after all, they have been an outstanding success at looking after the rights of recreational fishers for the last few years haven't they!!

If this organisation ends up falling on its sword then so be it...but it still feels a whole lot better to go down swinging and maybe even upset a few politicians on the way than fade away with a nice, warm politically correct wimper!

As to backslapping ourselves about changing the course of political history in this country..............we are a new party, just 7 months old at the election and directly and meassurabley stopped the greens gaining control of the senate and instead ensured it ended up with the Government....for the first time in 30 odd years. Maybe we define"historic" differently, but seemed pretty dramatic to me and I know it upset the heck out of Drew Hutton & the Greens!

Personally, & I know I am at odds with some opinions, I would much rather speak a langauge fishos understand than have to operate in the cosy environs of the politically correct...........not being able to say what one actually feels because it might upset some poor politicians sensibility is half of what is wrong with our current political process.

Are we out to "bully" the politicians.....No, we are out to remind them that this is a democracy, and in the strongest possible terms.

Regards

KC

[adamleah]

Havent read the post tottally yet ... 8) .. I cantconcentrate for that long ,,, ;D

But Has anyone heard about the Wellington point boat Ramp proposal that the council was pushing for some 6-10 months back ?.... It too involved reducing the number of designated car park / trailer parking...

[DavidT]

Havent read the post tottally yet ... 8) .. I cantconcentrate for that long ,,, ;D

But Has anyone heard about the Wellington point boat Ramp proposal that the council was pushing for some 6-10 months back ?.... It too involved reducing the number of designated car park / trailer parking...


That is just crazy, I was down their on Saturday arrived at 8:30am and there were only 3 spots left for cars with trailers, not too mention the other 9 boats with trailers that turned up behind me.

Any further reduction of the Boat-trailer facilities at wello point, would prove to be bad judgement.

Albeit, most days these ramps parking lots are not packed, but I don't think that, alone is a valid reason for reducing the amount of Boat-Trailer parking.

Instead, IMHO I think they should put restriction signs up stating times and days when, cars without trailers are able to use the parking spots, they should also spend at least 2 weeks during the busy times of the year investigating the maximum and minimum amount of parking spots are utilised at any given time, this way they can calculate when cars without trailers can take use of the those parking facilities.

I think it is a little Rude what the Redland shire council have done recently, it is a little deceiving, and upfront appears pre-meditatored.

Just my 2/c

Cheers,

David.

[damons33]

yeah i think that we've seen the idea of one step backward = two steps forward fall on its face for example sunfish!
#who continue to fail to get a bottomline approach and seems to think the way to get your agenda served by sycophantic colition with political parties will work! it didn't here nor elsewhere......its vote pull that they worry about, so pork barrelling is the best way to get your way! look at what brian harradine got for his electorate during his stay in the senate.
# the feds bought off sunfish with $400,000 over 5years then sprung them off, as they thought green votes where the way to go. well, looking at the sand mining coming up to moreton bay soon it is a case of pollies will sell their mothers at election time.
# #victorians and new sth welshman know how its done and it by pounding the senators and councillors untill they submit!
#no compromises,a bottomline!
i spend a heap on fishing and i work my a$$ out! i want something and i want it now! i want healthy estuaries with no pro-fishing in them like nsw! what did i get no more fishing on flat rock! gee those scuba divers have got some pull....via the idea that tourist are easy money, bullshit! diver are mostly fitness nutters and spend thrifts! no restarants no pubs no big fuel bills like gamefishermen/women.
# #stats can be twisted to promote any side of a story and dereck the silent approach has got nobody nowhere at anytime! scream like an arrogant nutter and they do anything to shut you up!
# #kc any shot is a good shot even an individual shot it's a overall effect to change some ministers personal advisors mindset which is the key to change....they don't take the punches so they aren't offended when ppl rubbish pollies they love it as it justifies their existance. makes the polly feel angery and sublimally vunerable. you got to dig up dirt to expose thow they gain in a situation ie:brother owns a mac donalds nearby without enough parking! look for person gains in their decisions!
# #its funny how many louse a dog can carry untill it becomes annemic.
#i agree with dereck about local government, your better off organising a meeting with them so they can explain the way they see it, before you start the firing at them ... if they refuse, open up with all barrels! when people are lying they tend to avoid confrontation.
if a dog won't work with rewards ....sometimes it needs a smack!
dereck you want nutters go to a christian right party like "the family"!(abbot is ex-priest and costello is a new born jobby....pair of comedians! remember some of the comments he made about abortion after the election win) i thought they where the preferences gain for the libs/nats in the senate which gave them outright power....watch what they do soon.
happy holidays!
# damon

[Big_Kev]

I don't think I would be to worried about the delicate ears of the councilors.
I am sure they have heard and been called much worse then that.

Correct me if i am wrong but I beleive this to be the ramp where there has just been a major upgrade of the island taxi services docking facilities.
I know that the area is heavily policed by the parking inspector (seen the tickets), generating revenue for the council at peak times.
Council obviously cops a lot of heat from this at times, as there is nowhere to park for people catching taxi's to the islands(that have grown in popularity) during weekends and other peak periods.

It is a pity that we (boaties) are the ones who have to take it up the axxse and cop it sweet, having facilities we pay for transferred to what the council see's as the greater need.
The only way to convey the message to the council in an instance such as this is to be blunt.

But IMHO I think these parking spaces are already lost and it is up to us to kick up enough fuss for extra facilities to be provided elsewhere.
Like I say correct me if I am wrong , but I beleive this to be the ramp in question.
Cheers Kev.

[baldyhead]

There is nothing hard about a letter of support heres a copy of mine. Short and to the point.
Dear Councillor,
We are two of the thirty thousand people who voted for The Fishing Party @ the last Federal election and we are writing to you to advise you that we fully endorse and support the Open Letter to the Redlands Shire Councillors submitted by Kevin Collins, Chairman of The Fishing Party.

sign & date and include your email address.
cheers baldy

[NQCairns]

Quote: "scream like an arrogant nutter and they do anything to shut you up!"

He he :-X :-X never a truer word spoken!

Fight the good fight ;)

Thanks Baldy, done!
# #

[kc]

TFPQ did some checking with Department of Transport.

It seems that according to their records this boat ramp should have 116 Places.

It is possibly on this basis the Ramp was built and maintenance costs are paid - not 100% sure on that part yet.

Some say there is currently 77 - does anyone know what happened to the rest?

Even so - acording to the Deptartment of Transport guidelines as a 4 lane ramp it is classified as Class A and class A ramps need to have a minimum of 90 Spaces for CTU (Car Trailer Units)

So Redlands is breaking the Guidelines.

The trouble is that the Dept of Transport is reluctant to enforce their own Rules!


We are writing to the Minister for Transport Paul Lucas.

You should too.

A suggested letter is below. You can email this to Lytton@parliament.qld.gov.au


The Hon Paul Lucas

Minister For Transport



Re Weinham Creek Boat Ramp - Banana Street Redland Shire


I call upon you to intervene in this matter urgently.

Redland Shire Council placed public notices that the parking at the ramp will be reduced to about 57 places. This public notice was published on 24th December and Council offices only opened up again on 4th January.


Submissions close on 14th January. Not much time. And in their notice, the Council states that construction work will begin in later February. There seems little scope for public comment to make any changes.


Minister, you have proudly announced $ Millions you have spent on boat ramps. But a boat ramp with no parking is no Boat Ramp at all.


According to your Departments own Guidelines this ramp should have 90 car and trailer parks. It is already overcrowded and our public right to use the Bay have been taken away. Taken away by RSC who have reduced the number of spaces and now have firm plans to reduce the spaces to “About 56”.


I ask that you personally intervene and ensure that the boating public is defended. I as that you enforce your own Department’s policy.


Sincerely

[baldyhead]

Ours are done. Maintain the RAGE!
cheers baldy

[Big-D]

:-X Just sent mine to Mr Lucas.

PS: Keep up the good work TFPQ.

Cheers peter.

[cooky]

i've sent mine.

I added

It has come to my attention today that Redland Shire Council has not followed appropriate protocol in relation to the awarding of a contract for public works on the car park at Weinham Creek.
Although I'm not from the area (reside in Townsville) I find this move very concerning - I'm concerned about the precedent this may set (the bigger picture).
To allow only a few 'working' days for responses is not morally acceptable.

[MulletMan]

I wonder if it is the efforts of local rescue units that keep the Council honest in issues like this? I have been working very closely with the Council's Victoria Point Redevelopment Committee to date, also have two other reps from the Unit on it as well, get access to all the proposed plans and as such have not only retained every single trailer park we have at the Point but have also gained an "overflow" park that will take another 100 or so trailers when the normal ones fill up on busy weekends. We also got some single carparks for the guys with no trailers who drag a tinny or kayak down on the roof of their car! Just needed our input! We get on exceptionally well with our Councillor who is a strong supporter of this Squadron and cannot fault him or the Council on the fishing and boating facilities at Vicky Point. This year, we expect to see fish cleaning tables, accessable water, hoses for washing the boats and other goodies to lure (no pun) the Boaties to our patch of turf. It won't happen overnight but it will happen. Likwise after four years of discussions, we bagged the only public jetty in this area! Ya gotta fight but also talk to the right people in this business. There are some good volunteers at Coastguard Redland Bay...... why not have a talk to them and see what they feel about the whole thing! You need someone with the right contacts and can compromise on everything to get somewhere - works for us! Better still, come to Vicky Point and see how it is done! Ho Ho bloody ho!

[sharkbait]

For anyone who wants to contact the minister for transport, here are the correct details:



Email: transport@ministerial.qld.gov.au
Phone: 07 32371949
Facsimile: 07 3224 4242
Postal Address: GPO Box 2644, Brisbane Q 4001


I sent mine to the lytton@ address and they were very prompt with their reply saying they had passed it on to the minister.

Kris.

[gif]

More this weekend on Talking Fishing 4BC 5-6 am Sat and Sun

Listen in - and call up and have your say 13 13 32

[PinHead]

i've sent mine. #

I added

It has come to my attention today that Redland Shire Council has not followed appropriate protocol in relation to the awarding of a contract for public works on the car park at Weinham Creek. #
Although I'm not from the area (reside in Townsville) I find this move very concerning - I'm concerned about the precedent this may set (the bigger picture).
To allow only a few 'working' days for responses is not morally acceptable.

I am curious as to what protocol they have breached in relation to the awarding of the contract?

[gif]

Pinhead

It seems to me that the have "breached the protocol" #of Democracy

( Greek) # #Demos # - the people
# # # # # # # #cracy ( sp) # to manage

That is #Democracy means managed by the people

The sequence they followed was

- September #- report to council #that they plan to reduce from 111 #to #68 car/ trailer parks

- October call tenders and negotiate

- December # 17 Council Votes and Tender accepted based on 56 CarParks

- December 24 #- public comment invited #( but officed closed until 4 Jan)


I do not know what caused thsi sequesnce

I do know that IF #my aim were to railroad through a decision I woudl have teh decision ratified and after that go through the motions of #compulsory democratic thing of caling for public coment. # And If I wanted to minimize public comment I would put it in a low circulation paper #during the Holiday Period, for as short a time as possible. # #

Pinhead - I do not understand where you are coming from #- are you a Public Servant? #Are you from a non democratic country?

[Derek Bullock]

Interesting concept Gary.

As you know I am a public servant.

I dont agree with your concept of what democracy is. In fact I believe it comes from Demos (the people) Kratos (authority). We democratically vote for political parties to represent us and in so doing give them the authority to make decisions for us.

I pose a question in support of that concept ....... Did John Howard put the decision to give one billion dollars to help rebuild a country after the Tsunami out to public comment prior to it being announced. Nope, he was exercising his right as the democratically elected represtentative of the people.

Is this what the Redlands Shire have done, exercised their right as the democratically elected representatives of the people and made a decision to upgrade a public facility?

In my view your analogy is more along the lines of anarchy than democracy.

Of course I guess there are other interpretations of democracy and one i heard recently was, "a form of government in which groups of people, commonly known as ‘political parties’, compete to offer the most inspiring false promises".

I think that if we sit back and look at it, the latter is more what happens in reality.

Oh yes, I didnt know that democracy is a protocol. I must research that further.

Cheers.


Derek

[PinHead]

Gary...answer to question 1. No..i am not a public servant..i am self employed. 2. I was born and raised in Brisbane therefore not from a non democratic country.

I want to know what you perceive as a democracy...governments at all levels are voted in at elections..based on their policies...they then have a mandate to implement those policies..simple as that..they do not have to refer back to the public for approval of the decisions they make...they were democratically elected to make those decisions.

A question for you: Did TFP ask ALL their members regarding the correspondence to the Redlands Shire or did the Executive make the decision to send it ? If the latter then there is no difference...The Executive of TFP has been elected to represent the members in accordance with their policies and the members have vested the executive with the power to act on their behalf..that is democracy. Next you will be saying you want citizen initiated referenda..now wouldn't that be a complete farce.

[PinHead]

"compulsory democratic thing of caling for public coment"

I cannot follow where you get the notion that public comment is compulsory.

[Big_Kev]

I like the interpretation Dereck.

[kc]

Picking up one of Pinheads points ( I like the one about being born in a non democratic country ...Brisbane).

It is absolutely correct that TFPQ did not consult its members before lodging a protest about what Redlands Council is up to. We ASSUMMED support & maybe Redlands council has done the same thing??

Trouble is they are acting in contravention of an existing guidelines..re the DOT rules for boat ramps.

As for Derek drawing an analogy between a boat ramp and what has happened in Asia that is a pretty long bow to draw and maybe this type of reference should be left out of this debate.

There is a difference between national leadership & a bloody boat ramp for gods sake!

At the end of the day TFPQ is about protecting the rights of rec fishers...that is our charter...that is what people voted for..SPECIFICALLY..

I don't believe ANY Redlands councilor went to the election on a platform of reducing boat parking spaces and maybe this is why they should consult the voters.

I agree with Pinhead. You can't have public consultation on every single issue, otherwise it would end up a shi&^5fisght which would effectively hamstring the effectiveness of local (& every) government..BUT, on an issue where a local authority seeks to overide the guidelines of the state government...and is required BY LAW to have a public consultation phase...then the process should be above board and transperant. I for one am sick to death of bloody public servants making decsions on my behalf and then paying lipservice to the "public consultation" phase. Dead set...I'm over it!! Been there, done that & still got a sore ar$#@!!

KC

[Derek Bullock]

KC

You failed to see what the discussion was about. #I was talking about a democratic process of decision making not an analogy between Asia and a boat ramp.

Whether it be a decison to spend millions on foreign aid, changes to medicare, increases in federal taxes, increases in state taxes, increases in rates, building a new road, building a new boat ramp, building a new car park or new carpet in the Mayors Office makes no difference in the democratic process of decision making.

What may influence that decision making however is the individuals fear on whether they will be re-elected after making a decision if the decision turns out to be a wrong one or in this case, whether it will cause a voter backlash.

The council does NOT have to consult if it chooses not to.

I would think The Fishing Party, as a political party, could benefit significantly by gaining an understanding of how the democratic process of government operates.

I certainly have not seen any evidence of that understanding in these pages.

Cheers.


Derek

[gif]

Derek and Pinhead

Your opinions are sadly and incorrectly held by too many public servants.

Governments are never ever given a blank cheque, a mandate to do whatever they want for 3 years or so.

Governments are not held to account just at election times - but at all times in between.

You seem to have some weird idea that democracy only happens once every election - and then in between it is an autocracy. If that’s what you truly believe then that explains why some in Public management frighten me.

Democracy is a continual process - every day not once every 3 years. Without delivering a full treatise:

- Governments continually monitor public opinion surveys ( these are conducted weekly, though the questions change)
- Governments send out information pieces and advertising to explain their policies or actions - “selling” them if you like
- Politicians have staff and offices to Listen to the electorate
- Senate debates and Question time are televised
- Protests make a difference
- Petitions are entered into Hansard
- Lobbyists exist
- There are debates in Parliament and Modifications to Bills as they are passed.
- Governments are dismissed by the Governor General
- Early elections are called when the Government seems to have lost public support
- Councils are overturned and Administers appointed by the Minister for Local Government when a Council gets out of control.

All of these are examples of where your position is wrong, vis

If what you say is correct that Governments are not continuously subject to the people then we would see none of the above points. Not one. But clearly we do see them -

We see Governments continuously changing direction (slightly) and making policy modifications during their time in power. You see, it is not politicians that believe that they have an open authority to do whatever they like, just some public servants.

Yes, at times “executive decisions” need to be made. Usually in times of war and few other times (it only seems they make decisions solo - but they definitely watch public opinion weekly)


I do not speak for the Fishing Party.

If you read the Minutes of the Redland Shire Council of 17 Dec (Item 13.3) you will see that the initiative for the changes to the car park came as an initiative of the Council employees. It was NOT an election promise or policy. It is not something Redlands residents voted on at the last elections.

So Pinhead - your point is baseless in this case.


The use of the Bay is for the whole public. In Australia we cannot own water of tidal areas, they are owned by the Public. Redland Shire Council manages one of the gateways (This boat ramp) they hold this in trust for all Australians not Residents of Redlands.

This is their duty and responsibility - not theirs to use as they see fit.


Yes - I reinterpreted the word protocol - I took it to a higher level of “responsibility and precedence.

Stop fluffing around time wasting playing at word games like the PS loves to do - its a strategy for avoiding the real issues and win cheap points. Lets raise the level of debate beyond that.


BOTTOM LINE - Unless we stop letting certain political agendas from running all over us – destroying fishing bit by bit it will be all gone Like hunting.

So do something Write a letter or make a call - but don’t be guilty of sitting with arms folded while fishing is taken away from my kids.


And in conclusion a quotation from that BBC Comedy (documentary?) Yes Minister

Jim Hacker: "Look Tom, you were in office for years. You know all Civil Service tricks."
Tom Sargent: "Oh not all good boy, just a few hundred."

( Yes Minister Series 1 episode 4)

[Derek Bullock]

That was and still is one of my favourite TV shows. :-X :-X :-X :-X

As an aside, I have never said i endorse what the council have done in this matter.


Derek

[GES]

Ahhhh ... Come on fellas...

How did this post, which outlines TFP (Qld)'s letter on our behalf to Redland Shire Council, get reduced to an argument on semantics about what is and what isn't democracy ???
Who bloody cares !!
Forget the ego trips guys and put your energy into sending your views to the Minister for Transport and, if you live in Redlands Shire, to your local Councillor. I have sent mine to both.

GES

[kc]

The democratic process I understand.....it's the public service "process"which leaves me mindboogled.

KC

[PinHead]

Ahhhh ... Come on fellas...

How did this post, which outlines TFP (Qld)'s letter on our behalf to Redland Shire Council, get reduced to an argument on semantics about what is and what isn't democracy ??? #
Who bloody cares !!
Forget the ego trips guys and put your energy into sending your views to the Minister for Transport and, if you live in Redlands Shire, to your local Councillor. I have sent mine to both.

GES

c'mon GES...you care mate..just admit it..hehe

[cooky]

I am curious as to what protocol they have breached in relation to the awarding of the contract?


I don't give a f**k what protocol, or if there is a protocol. At the end-of-the-day to play with politicians you must play like politicians (i've had some experience) - the Minister or an aid will most likely say "I am curious as to what protocol they have breached - check it out for me please"

at least they might look into it. They get a little scared if someone might have broken THE RULES.

[Gazza]

c'mon GES...you care mate..just admit it..hehe

Hi GES and right-on pinhead [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]
;)

All recfishos should be taught at an early age to ben-dover
and touch ya toes (or kneecaps :) )

or have the ballz to say.......
"ENOUGH!!"

[PinHead]

Ok Gary..you win..so I can expect the Local, State and Federal Govts to ask for public submissions prior to the introduction of any Bill..I doubt it..but that appears to be your form of democracy..consulatation with the people before any decision is made...seems like that is straight out of Monty Python..or more like the Hanson Book of Politics.
Nowhere in the Australian Constitution does it state that any government has to ask for public consent to pass bills or make decisions...that is their job..regardless of how bad we see them doing it.
With regards to the Redlands decision..I doubt anything will alter their views if they have let the contract..BUT..it may alter if they only have an approved tender..which is...the tender is awarded consensual to the public submissions process if they do that (is..they have chosed an approved tender but not signed the contract yet). If the contract has already been signed then the poor folk of Redlands will have to pay regardless of the works happening or not.

[PinHead]

Gazza..saying enough will not make much of a difference in this case if they have signed the contract.

[Gazza]

Gazza..saying enough will not make much of a difference in this case if they have signed the contract.
IF ya ben-dover.....sure as the suns sets in the "East" :)

i-f ya question "some" decisions ,only because it doesn't seem 'right' ,well WT...F...
you pay,you "say"
don't care "where" any of us live....if a 'issue' smells

KICK UP A STINK [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

or M8..a money-back g'tee ,of no vote ""next-time""
JMKO Pin...and respect yours ;)

[PinHead]

"of no vote ""next-time"""

that is the key Gazza..the only real bargaining power we have once they are in office.

[cooky]

not really related, but accidentially found this from our local area (Magnetic Island). This was an article in Magnetic Island newspaper. Just an interesting example of politicians being able to justify almost anything through PR / SPIN.


Gangway gets a gong
I have in front of me a media release from Queensland Minister for Transport Steve Bredhauer, and I am furious and sickened. I am furious at the lies and spin the Minister and his mates are prepared to use to cover up the debacle that is the Nelly Bay terminal, and sickened by the level to which our elected representatives are prepared to stoop to misinform their constituents.

According to Mr Bredhauer the Nelly Bay ferry terminal last week "won a state-wide Disability Action Week award for its superior accessibility between land and water for disabled people". Disability Action Week is an annual event of Disability Services Queensland, a Queensland government department headed up by Minister Judy Spence. The Award was won by the Queensland Department of Transport and the Department of State Development.

In other words, the Disability Services Department gave the award to the Department of Transport and the Department of State Development. Cosy.

And not only that, they gave the award to a ferry terminal that has not yet opened for public use; it has not yet been tested in reality! When carrying out a "dummy run" last year, emergency services personnel were forced to place the 'patient' on a ladder (no, not a clever piece of medical equipment, but the type of ladder that you use to reach high spots when you are painting your house) in order to transport the person onto the ferry.

But the bull**** from the Minister did not stop there. In the release he also claimed that "the state-of the art terminal will deliver all weather access for passengers". Oh really?

The government report of May 1999 said that a "safe harbour" could be defined as one "providing moorings and ferry berths sheltered from normal operating wind and wave conditions". I'd hardly call that "all-weather". And in this "state-of-the-art all-weather facility" even the 60+ metre gangway access is uncovered, so providing no
protection from sun or rain.

And then of course we have the cost to Islanders and those dependent on visitor trade.

According to Premier Peter Beattie the terminal is "a tremendous facility that will serve the expanding population of Magnetic Island and make it even more attractive to tourists". To be honest, I'm not sure how a 20% ferry fare increase can serve the local community or make the Island more attractive to tourists. And what happens when the government subsidy that keeps the rise to a mere 20% runs out in two years?

Under our system of government, Ministers are referred to as 'The Honourable'. The Honourable Steve Bredhauer, Judy Spence, Peter Beattie? You're kidding.


Wendy Tubman

[cooky]

guess what? that article was over 2 years ago - found this one from late last year (2 years later).


Ferry fares to rise
Hikes in Queensland Transport landing charges, following the move of ferry operations to Nelly Bay combined with a spike in fuel costs is to result in a rise in ferry ticket prices from 1st January 05 by an average of 9% across all Sunferries services.

Sunferries' General Manager Mick Reilly told Magnetic Times, “This is the first price rise in almost a year and a half and has been forced by increased fuel costs which have risen by 26% since moving operations to Nelly Bay. We have absorbed that price increase until now but can no longer afford to do so."

From 1st September 04, the Queensland Transport landing fees doubled to $0.64 cents per person disembarking at Nelly Bay. Queensland Transport will increase them further to approximately $1.00 per person on 1st September 05. Sunferries has, so far, been absorbing this year’s increase.

The increases in landing fees are seen as a means by which the government can hope to recoup some of the massive costs incurred in developing Nelly Bay Harbour.

Sunferries have however opted to minimise the impact for residents with most of the increase weighted towards non residents who will now pay $23 for a normal single adult return trip - an increase of 15%. Multi-use, adult, flexi-tickets (the ticket of choice for Island commuters) will increase by 7.5% with the new ten-trip flexi up from $67 to $72. Six monthly tickets will allow regular travellers to keep the one way cost of travel down to under $4.10 dollars per trip. A table with the new fare structure is shown at the end of this story.

According to Mick Reilly, the pricing is still value for money, especially when compared to other ferry services. “Magnetic Island residents, commuters and tourists are still benefitting from one of the most cost competitive ferry services in Queensland. For example - Arlie Beach/Shute Harbour to Hamilton Island the return fare is $60. Clump Point, Mission Beach to Dunk Island the return fare is $29 with only four services a day compared to the 15 offered by Sunferries” he said.

[PinHead]

cooky..have a look at Ms Tubman's background..I doubt she would say anything glowing about a Labour Govt.

[cooky]

yep she sounds like a nutter. Just thought some statements / predictions were interesting. Like questioning ferry ticket increases in 2 years when gov funding ceased and then to have it happen 2 years later, but the PR blames Fuel,etc.

No big deal, just found it interesting while digesting my lunch.