View Full Version : XXXX  is bad for Fishers

06-02-2005, 02:37 PM
I am coming to realize that the XXXX adds as funny as they are, are giving fishermen in Australia a bad name. According to the adds we are mugs who pretend to go fishing just to drink beer. And when we go fishing we use dynamite.

I know the adds are meant to be amusing. I find them funny too. But listening to kids, non fishers and foreigners they think there must be some truth behind the adds.

What that means is that the image of fishers is poor. And so when the government / greenies call for closure of fishing areas, for the tighter restrictions on fishing, then a lot of the public (80% of the population don’t fish) say “fair enough - they are just boozy mugs anyway - Funny but not worth protecting”

I am not exaggerating this is area (publicity / public image etc) where I have some expertise and my recent research supports my thoughts.

So these adds have just gone up again. Where else have you seen them? These 2 were north from the G Coast just before Yatala and in the valley - facing you as you exit the Storey Bridge.

Has anyone spotted any others in the last week?

06-02-2005, 02:44 PM
any others ?

06-02-2005, 02:48 PM
There is reason behind the image/s portrayed in the XXXX commercials and advertisements Gary.

Last year I had the pleasure of personally meeting the managing director of Castlemaine Perkins who had just delivered a seminar on XXXX's marketing campaigns and tactics. The images they put across to consumers are vital and extremely important in the success of their products.


06-02-2005, 03:09 PM
Yes I understand they are vital to XXXX - their top Marketing guys are no fools

What I am saying is that there is collateral damage - and what they are doing is helping those who want closures by potrtraying us in a poor light.


06-02-2005, 03:38 PM
:)Mate, just like the media nowadays , will go to any lengths for a story n dont matter who's toes they step on in the process....
If people on the whole believe or take those adds seriousely :-/..Then we are in a poor state as a nation ey ???..
Personally i have no probs with with ye ole jacky howe Singlet,Black Boxer shorts, the ole Akubra, Chinese workboots(Thongs) :-X and a cold stub or tinny on the mit image for the Dinky Die ;)..
Worlds gettin far too serious if people get offended or cast a bad immage over other cause of a few adds..
Just my personal opinion is all..

06-02-2005, 04:15 PM
Have a Bundy instead ;D
Or maybe the Bear Falling out of the tree, will stop all those hairy legged Germans Gals coming out. :-X
Or maybe the xxxx ad, with the 4 blokes on the high and dry trawler, and making the dog chase the bone, will have the RSPCA onto them. :-X
Christ whats the hell are we coming to, if were going to start worrying about bloody ads.
Plus there's a lot worse things then dynamite being dropped into our waters.

06-02-2005, 05:14 PM
Who took the photos?
They would seem to be taken from the drivers side of the car? :D

I have seen the adds and take no offense stereotyping.

"Evil be to those who evil think."

06-02-2005, 06:41 PM
I know that the concepts may be complicated but the fact that you refuse to think about the problem is a concern.

Greenies are a minority - why do you think they are winning and fishers are losing? Because those in the middle don't think much of fishers.

I don't know how I can make it simpler. There is a freight train coming and you cant see it.

people with similar attitudes left if too long in north Qld - now its a great plac eto go to but a cheap boat. A friend had been looking for a cheap hornet and got the best deal (including shipping) in Cairns why? many up there have given up fishing.

heavy sigh

06-02-2005, 07:14 PM
:)Gary i know what ya tryin ta say mate n also know on one hand ya might be right BUT :(????..What does one do??. Get up in arms with the Publicity mobs,media, start wearin a suit to go out Fishing??(only tryin at add a wee bit of humour here mate ;))..
Do we stop takin the odd Stubby out with us when we venture out for a Fish???..
Mate have an hour or two at the local Clubs n Pubs of a saturday arvo n check out the Fishin cluberaffles to make life easier for the Clubs with their Fishin trips, We put a stop on them??..
Guess by livin in a free democracy Advertisers slap up billboards that they think is appropriate, Newspapers say"Freedom of the Press" etc..
No matter what we do those minority greens or Enviro mental(Shoulda spaced that word a tad closer me thinks lol :-X) Shoulda read Enviromental(Okay thats fixed ::) ),Will still get their Arhithyia n Sovrakka in a knot over what Rec Fisho's do..
I love my Fishin n have done so all me life but i'm buggared if i'm gunna give up a way of life for some minority group....
Would be akin ta shuttin me trap for what i beleive in for fear of a few or peer pressure..
"I Fish n I Vote" isnt that what the Sticker sez??..
Otherwise, take up a collection if all Rec Fisho's will stick hands in deep pockets and have acampaign of our own ??? ???..
Must be some ideas floatin about out there??..
I hate minority groups with a passion who try and impose their will on others n like ya say its happening to an extent......
Look at the outcome with smokers nowadays, treated like Leppars even under their own roofs....Someones decides that all of a sudden smokin kills, annoys the bejayzus out of most n mankinds only been smokin for the last so many thousand years or so..
feck i wouldnt mind a wee Port Colt at present lol..
Okay i'm startin at dribble :-X...

06-02-2005, 07:19 PM
:ookay !!!!just thought of one ;), howzabout emailing Sunrise on Seven or Goodmorning Australia and complaining about them Billboards sayin they are an insult to the Austarlian Public/Fisho's n its a sick sence of humour in advertising???? :-/..
Sumthin like that anyhows ???..

06-02-2005, 07:30 PM

I never stick my neck out like this without a plan. This post is step number 7. And I started in October.

In the mean time I get back to the question of the post - are there more of the same Dynamite Fishing boards out there?

Oh - and its legal to use a camera in a car just not a mobile phone - ask the guy you was charged with using a mobile phone who was video taped by the cop. Both photos took two passes before I could safely take a photo. :)

06-02-2005, 09:33 PM
Gary..those ads are just a typical aussie laugh at ourselves...I doubt anyone takes them seriously and if they do, they need an IQ test. There have been multitudes of ads over the years where we have taken the mickey out of ourselves. I do not think that any Govt. bodies or other bodies would take those seriously when making decisions. As Webby said..the guys on the boat...fishing for Marlin (the dog)..now let's take that ad...we now see fishos as people drinking beer but are too stupid to cast into the water...therefore the fish are not at any risk from fishos at all...therefore by your theory...no areas need to be closed to fishing cos we don't have our lines in the water anyway. Somehow, I think you may be looking too closely at things..step back and have a laugh.

06-02-2005, 09:34 PM
"Oh - and its legal to use a camera in a car just not a mobile phone - ask the guy you was charged with using a mobile phone who was video taped by the cop. Both photos took two passes before I could safely take a photo. :)"

I think that using a camera whilst driving would fit under the category of driving with undue care and attention which is an offence.

06-02-2005, 09:54 PM
Your kidding Gary
I agree with Pinhead and Webby.
Chill out brother and go fishing

Tight Lines

07-02-2005, 04:08 AM
If the camera is in a mobile phone then you get a double whammy.

07-02-2005, 05:23 AM
When someone mentions Paris Hilton – what comes to mind?
Do you think she would ever be able to change her public image?

When you see a red Ferrari, what image do you have of its owner?

While these ads are funny and we would hope not harmful, the reality is that this does put an image of angers into people’s minds - An image that we don’t need in this day and age.

I wish that it was as simple as having a laugh at the ad and ourselves – but with all the mounting pressure on our sport / hobby – we need to be seen as environmentally caring, conservation minded and participating in a family activity.

Running into charter boats and dynamite just doesn’t fit in.
I'm sure their creative advertising department could come up with a better campaign.

Dave ><>

07-02-2005, 05:32 AM
i agree with garry,
to me is is the insideous portrayal of rec fisho's
as beer swilling yobbo's who don't really give a hoot,

or the cruel buggers who hook a fish with a hook and drag it to the boat stressed and struggling (read any green propagander)

or the mob who throw their rubbish (smoke butt's) over the side (how many of you do this or have seen it done)

etc etc

it makes fishing less palatable to the general public, the average joe who dosen't fish thinks well bugger them, if the govt makes like hard for them well so what!

remember 80% of people don't fish, we have to tell those 80% that we want to keep fishing, we are responsible and care for the environment, so when the govt wants to regulate us out of our lifestyle/recreation those that don't fish are our supporters.
bad portrayal by media= bad image
good portrayal = good image

my thoughts

07-02-2005, 05:56 AM
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? hey what if someone suggested to XXXX that it would be warm and fuzzy as well as green and enviormentally friendly to be assoicated with the green movment ......... you know two ferals chained to a tree sucking on a coldie ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D just gotta get em to get rid of the joint :o ;D ;D ;D

07-02-2005, 10:51 AM
I understand everyone's point of view but I'm with Gary on this one. Have a look at the TV programs relating to fishing. It seem that you have to be A.D.D or act like an idiot to get your face on the screen. The Wildfish series wasn't like that and was successful. Brown's coast watch is gone and look at the cardboard cut out left.

I think with the XXXX add we all miss the one point. If you drink too much of this stuff you end up like them!!!

07-02-2005, 11:27 AM
Iam with Webby,if the xxxx ads offend you have a Bundy (I swing towards both),personally I think all the xxxx ads over the years have been terriffic not mention humourous,they certainly capture our lifestyle,climate and way of life.Keep them coming xxxx,I dont know how they can make the stuff the price.
Yours Sincerely
XXXX Drinker

07-02-2005, 11:46 AM
Geez fella's! Why dont you think up another scenario for XXXX to use for continuous advertising that is as well received as the current series of ads are, then they will leave fisho's alone!!! You talk about giving fisho's a bad name, the number of people we see out fishing or just cruising with a beer in their hand- I think they are giving us a much worse name than the XXXX ads!

07-02-2005, 12:33 PM
Some are completely missing the point. Try to put down the can and focus on what is the issue under discussion.

I LIKE the adds but they are making us out to be environmental fools. ....and some of that mud sticks - especially in the minds of the 80% of voters who don't fish.

And so we are an easier target for the Greenies Its all a PR warfare

Listen to what someone else wrote

From Rex Hunts Retirement speach

It is clear, however, that fishing will eventually be a minority activity. The greenies and the do-gooders will block off more areas and ban fishing. The animal libbers will finally do to fishing what they have done to the shooters. Surely they won't ban mushrooming or blackberrying, would they?

Quite bluntly we, the anglers, have ourselves to blame for our predicament. We should have done more, we should have recognized the early signs, we should have formed our lobby group when the first signs were there. Now it is too late. We will pay dearly for our apathy and the "she'll be right mate mentality". Clearly, she won't be right.

Now all of you stay focussed for a minute This is NOT a discussion about Rex Hunt and if you like him or not.

Here is a person who spent ages in the industry saying that " she'll be right" is how you spot an idiot. (to talk the way Rex would talk)

07-02-2005, 03:03 PM

They're right, you know.

The establishment is not just bending you over, they're mixing good beach sand into the vaseline.

I say this, because I've seen it before in the country I just flicked two fingers to. What happens there tends to happen here a couple of years later, anyone disagree with that?

So, what I saw happening up there... which was *that* bad, it made me emigrate... is now beginning to happen here.

I disagree with Rexy on one point: It's not too late *YET*. But, by God, we're all going to have to band together and become a mighty voice *DAMN* quick, or it will be.

It's up to you. I'd be more than happy to give you a glimpse into your future by explaining what's coming... what has already happened up in England. Truth is, most of you won't believe it, but there's other Brit lads on this site and I guarantee they'll all back me up on it.

Choice is yours... fight or lose.



07-02-2005, 03:26 PM
mmmmm - don't like the dynamite ads, seen some on the northside, think there's one at normanby, cringe every time I see this add. I just can not see the logic behind using something like this. I suppose since XXXX is not aussie owned they don't give a hoot.

Love the others but can't give comment on whether they are harmful to the fishing cause.

07-02-2005, 03:33 PM
Geez Gary you are kidding right. Have you been watching conspiracy theory movie marathons??? I suppose you also think the moon landings were faked and Elvis is still alive ;D ;D ;D
It's like ALL points of view - I'd bet there are plenty of fishing folk who don't believe the ads portray them as beer drinking yobo's - I'm one. People are born knowing right from wrong. Our Aussie larikinism, part of our heritage, is being chipped away by the PC police.

I likes my GOLDIES ice cold.

AND Yes driving whilst operating a camera is undue care and attention.

07-02-2005, 09:40 PM
Subtle point.......dynamiting is an illegal act , and should not IMO ,be associated with Fishing #??? ,and should be withdrawn #>:(

'Larrikin' is fine e.g. those other "super-fridge" adverts for grog and a "good-time fishing trip" were a positive perspective ,these aren't ,and should be pointed out as such #>:(

08-02-2005, 02:44 AM
Geeze #:o I could only imagine what might be happening on a femenist chat board with that xxxx billboard that shows a picture of a ring and the caption "Life Sentence" #;D ;D ;D
The use of dynamite and fishing on a billboard humourous to us but to others ...mmmmmm #:-/

08-02-2005, 06:45 AM
So, all surfers are stoned bums that are on the dole? All rock bands use heavy drugs and worship satin? All footballers get drunk and treat women with no respect? All computer nerds have never been laid?
If you answered yes to any of these questions, you are niave. If you think all fisherman do what is on television or billboards you are also niave. I don't think the fishermans image is under threat any more or less since the xxxx adds, and if it is, it is because of niave people who I couldn't care less about.

08-02-2005, 07:40 AM
I do find the XXXX ads funny and enjoy a ice cold Goldie. However, have seen the dynamite billboard on Ipswich rd and though this was a bit over the top.

08-02-2005, 07:55 AM
Have a read of this

then compare it to your ads and consider which image you would prefer to portray to the gullible masses who cannot see past the Greens propaganda.

I know which I think is better.

08-02-2005, 08:04 AM
I used to take Monday off school if I caught a bream...

08-02-2005, 08:15 AM

there is one of the dynamite adds on Bowen Bridge Rd Southbound at Windsor.

I am concerned about the power of the green movement and have joined the fishing party.

What do you suggest we do next?


08-02-2005, 08:17 AM
Go fishing
And stop reading into these things so bad
I agree with Jack lives here and Mick
Where does it stop.
Should I remove my pic at the bottom of my posts?

Tight Lines

08-02-2005, 08:18 AM
XXXX = Dynamite ::)
VB = C4/soap ;D
Tooheys = Gelignite/bathwater ;D

Watch out for the charterboat/cruiseliner ...... >:(

08-02-2005, 11:30 AM
yeh i can see your point but then again take it for how it is and if you truly don't like it send a letter of complaint to castlemane xxxx and to the papers
have alook at other adds that have been pulled for less all because one religion finds it offensive or something like that

but trully if everyone think that all fishos are drunken slobs that rape the seas then they haven't ever seen a ABT comp or the AFC on the tv or even looked a a fishing mag

i fish i don't drink i don't smoke i don't litter hell i hardly keep a fish for a feed i just fish for that ;D

08-02-2005, 12:08 PM
That’s right - they HAVE NOT # read a fishing magazine or watched AFC # #and never will # #Tell me # how much do you know about horse riding, or skateboarding politics?

Only 20% of Australians fish once a year or more # #Less than 1 % #read fishing magazines etc etc

Maybe 5 % of Australian are unrepentant Greenies. #

That leaves 75% #of voters # who don’t fish # and ALL they hear about fishing is:

1. # # #Greenies saying the oceans need protection
2. # # #XXXX saying fishers are #likable larrikins #at best

So what conclusion do you think that 75% of voters some up with? # #“Well ok then I suppose I should vote for closing down marine access - you know for the environment and all”
Everyone, regurgitates what they are taught. # #So does everyone on this site. # #

Ausfish members are not “normal” #we are maybe 1 % #of the voting population. # Don’t fool yourself for a minute that we are middle of the road.

What do we do? # I hate those wackywhingers and don’t want to become one. # And any noisy protest #is the wrong thing to do. #

I don’t for a minute think that XXX is out to get us. # #What I will think about is a gentle #letter to their #MD #Ken Freer # #saying “excuse me mate but you are accidentally stepping on our toes” # #well not those words but that approach, but #in marketing speak

Does that sound OK? # # I would ask senior people to check the letter and agree before I sent it. # #

08-02-2005, 12:35 PM
This 'angle' ain't all that different Gary.....
http://www.ausfish.com.au/cgi-ausfish/board/YaBB.cgi?board=General;action=display;num=11066456 98

Ok So how many Great Whites? 440 by there reckoning! #
How many by Recreational fishers? Id be amazed if it was more than 1 every 2 years! #
But thousands of people leave there display every day being told that Rec fishers are partly responsable for the killing of hundreds of white sharks per year. #
Not only that they are telling thousands of school children the same story. This is just one aspect of what they are doing to attack recreational fishing. #

i'd rather be pissed-off than pissed-on , and yeah , if it's XXXX on offer , i'd drink it....but not the subliminal point ,is it!! #>:(

What!!!!! ...you hit the charterboat/cruiseliner #:o

08-02-2005, 01:06 PM
i agree with gary.
the ads are humourous to us as fishermen, we see what they are about. to greeny types who do not fish & know nothing about fishing it is about drunks with fishing gear.
a lot of these people, in my opinion, appear to be borderline simpletons in their approach to saving the planet & the greenie powers that be rely on this to get them on side, i have 2 in my family, a short diving course & instantly they were grey nurse experts & i had to put up with so much crap sprouting from these "experts". truth was if i showed them a pic of a GN & a river whaler i doubt they could tell the diff.
it's people like this that become the problem when we have ads like the xxxx ones because they aren't smart enough to distinguish reality from a bit of fun. it's sad really..but... you cannot change their mind, they are always, right, just ask them.

08-02-2005, 11:28 PM
[quote author=Gary Fooks link=board=General;num=1107600255;start=30#35 date=02/07/05 at 16:08:07]That leaves 75% #of voters # who don’t fish # and ALL they hear about fishing is:

1. # # #Greenies saying the oceans need protection
2. # # #XXXX saying fishers are #likable larrikins #at best

So what conclusion do you think that 75% of voters some up with? #

Sorry Gary, I disagree, but only to a certain extent. My mother does't fish, and she knows how important fishing is to her father, brothers and me - her children. The old duck who lives next door to me doesn't fish, but loves hearing my fishing stories and coming over for a chilli mud crab feed. There are plenty more as well. That 75% have there own minds and the smarter, open minded ones won't let a silly billboard advertisment change there perspective of fishing. However, you are right in saying that the 75% of voting people remaining may be misled to believe differently. I just hope to God that Australians are not that stupid, and I think I am right in saying that they are not.
Actualy Gary, the more I think about it, the more I think I don't disagree with you because you are right in a way, I just find it hard to believe that 75% of Australians would try and rid fishing because of misleading interpretations of things like the xxxx advertisment. Sorry if I have confused you, I probably could of written that better but it is 3:24am.
Kind regards, Mick

09-02-2005, 01:33 AM

You're right #about some of the 75% # # #But even if it is 65% or even 55% or even 40% # - it is still a lot of potential votes. And they are not the ones that will try to get rid of fishing - but they will be persuaded by green elements to go along.

Look - its B hard to disagree with greens. Try not putting the plastic in the recycling bin and see what neighbours or kids give you a hard time.

And its not as if people are stupid. # #Its that we have too much information and cannot be experts on everything. #How many people cannot teh clock on their VCR to work?

I my field I find many examples of what people believe to be true ends up being totally wrong - yet facts will not convince them they are wrong. # Did you see that TV show Myth Busters? # same idea

XXXX are reinforcing a myth and teaching the myth to a new generation. #

Again let me stress #- I do not believe they are tring to "get us" on purpose #- they are just using an existing myth to sell some beer.


09-02-2005, 02:09 AM
Yeah, Have to agree with Garry. Our image with many is not what it could/should be. Many try to improve it,but many others do the opposite. We don't need smart alec advertisers ubdoing what so many are trying so hard to do. Noel

09-02-2005, 05:01 AM
Then again, the apparent holiest man to walk the planet, yes, Jesus himself was a fisherman. Maybe we should try to get that message accross to the public. Who's going to argue with that? In fact, Jesus probably sends greenies to hell! Haha! A green zone to Jesus was probably a grassy area to go fishing. hang on, he lived in Israel or something. What is there to catch there? Probably something that is crossed with a carp and a talapia. Sorry Jesus, should of come to Australia.
PS I havent slept yet, been working all night which proabably explains my dribble.

Derek Bullock
09-02-2005, 05:12 AM
You sure Mick ............ I thought he was a carpenter.


09-02-2005, 05:27 AM
Jesus had lots of fishing mates, and he went out fishing with them. # But they were commercial fishermen and so needed to be saved.

Jesus was a carpenter. # Which explains why to this very day tradesmen suddenly dissapear, and just when you think they must be dead they turn up again.

(I pray He has a sense of humour)


09-02-2005, 05:46 AM
truth is it appears that it is only the xxxx drinkers that are the problem.
the other brand are all hard working 'i've got it right now' type of blokes. ::) ;D ;D

09-02-2005, 05:47 AM
PR, IMAGE, MARKETING, etc DOES, I repeat DOES shape society, culture, ideas, opinions...... children and young adults (even older ones) are molded / brainwashed by what we/they are exposed to.

Advertising is a VERY powerful medium and often dictates what is considered acceptable, popular, trendy, good, bad.

I sort of get Gary's point, however more analysis would be required into these particular adverts to see if they DAMAGE or in fact BENEFIT fishing in Australia. There are many more drinkers in Australia than Fishermen, there are many more people that support, accept, encourage the Aussie way of life even if not living it themselves. These adverts may actually highlight the benefits of fishing. Fishing people like fishing for various reasons - some hardcore for fishing only, some for social (including beers/bundy). However the average non-fisher potentially doesn't see the interest in 'fishing', but may understand or appreciate the apparent lifestyle option.

must go - c ya

09-02-2005, 05:48 AM
just like to add that I haven't seen the dynamite advert referred to - only referring to trawler and others I've seen.

09-02-2005, 06:44 AM
Excellent points cooky # #

The Dynamite add #is a picture of a stick of dynamite #- lit

and then the word # # Fishing?

09-02-2005, 07:11 AM
???Still havent read where anyones emailed Sunrise at Seven or other n complained about it bein bad publicity..
Still havent read anyone postin ta ban drinkin XXXX among Fisho's till XXXX removes the posters..
No good just talkin about it , Do sumthin :)..
XXXX Gold sucks anyway, Bloats ya n gives ya a headache...
Only good thing going for it is its cheap...But then again so is Coke when its on special ;D...

09-02-2005, 08:24 AM
Some of my best fishing spots are named after fourex. Forourex corner, fourex hole, fourex bluff. I can tell ya they are utter crap and the only thing you can do there is drink.

09-02-2005, 08:32 AM

Well while your idea seems attractive the whole point is that we dont want to look like mugs

And Reporters love to make a story - and they could actually make us look worse. Depending o how they write the story we could come out looking like some red neck fools.

Give me a few days to talk it through

09-02-2005, 09:15 AM
All another storm in a tea cup.

09-02-2005, 10:05 AM
::) ::)

09-02-2005, 10:47 AM
Or should that have been beer glass? ;D

09-02-2005, 12:47 PM
Can relate to that Dev [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

10-02-2005, 03:12 AM
Bloody funny devo!

10-02-2005, 09:32 AM
What about that show something about Aussie adventures where the host's on a Barra trip with his mates. Trying to be serious on camera while his mates keep offering him beers all day which he rejects. By the end of the day no fish, he's ticket off, someones having a leak over the side of the boat and lets out a fart in close proximity to his head while still filming. Bloody brilliant portrayal of a tipical fishing trip for me. They should pay me royalties on that one. Mad me laugh out loud too.
Dont take things too seriously.

10-02-2005, 09:36 AM
By the way I'll be making the trip into Gympie tonight for the GSMP-NS meeting. There's something to spend more energy on.

Derek Bullock
10-02-2005, 05:17 PM
And Reporters love to make a story - and they could #actually make us look worse. # # Depending on how they write the story we could come out looking like some red neck fools.

Tell you what Gary, I reckon if a journo was to log on here and quote some of the garbage thats been said on this subject then they would do more damage to the image of recfishers than the fourex ads. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

The excuse that some of them were drunk, on most likely fourex, at the time they posted their comments would not be a very good excuse or example. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Derek (Who prefers Cascade Lager):-X :-X :-X :-X

10-02-2005, 06:00 PM
Derek (Who prefers Cascade Lager) :-X :-X :-X :-X#
Yeah right ,just because you have 2 heads , doesn't mean your twice as smart!! #;D :D :D :D

Any journo is welcome to comment ,under threat of 'cement boots' to check us out #;) ,of course #[smiley=2thumbsup.gif]
....and listen....

::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Press my doorbell #;D ;D ;D ;D

11-02-2005, 04:45 AM
Journailsts do log in here and read the comments ;D

PS - they're not the only ones - isn't that right you fishery guys ;D

Derek Bullock
11-02-2005, 05:17 AM
OK mine was more a subtle hint Bugman. ;)