Fire Extinguishers

[Wello_Pete]

Are fire extinguishers suddenly compulsory equipment in Queensland? Extract from the Baside Bulletin of 15 February "...Note that along with EPIRBs and flare packs, on-board fire extinguishers also must be in service date tagged. Anyone who has a fire extinguisher on board who does not have a valid for use service date stamped, or attached, then take steps to rectify the problem. The cheap extinguishers from discount auto stores that feature no expiry date or service tag date, from now on will only see you receive a fine"

What the...? If I don't have one, then I'm OK, but if I do have one, make it an expensive one. I thought the idea was to encourage boaties to have them as a safety precaution.

Cheers

[Spaniard_King]

A valid service tag ????

What a joke, thought this was for comercial people only ::)

Garry

[macdwp01]

Cmon fellas, use a bit of common sense, it is a piece of safety equipment and like all safety equipment it should be of good quality. I think it is good that extinguishers are compulsory equipment on boats as really boats sink in 3 ways, swapmed in heavy seas, holed and fire damage. Service tags are easy to obtain and if fact should come with the extinguiser when brought as it is no use if the equipment is buggered. Cheers

[Spaniard_King]

Cmon fellas, use a bit of common sense, it is a piece of safety equipment and like all safety equipment it should be of good quality. I think it is good that extinguishers are compulsory equipment on boats as really boats sink in 3 ways, swapmed in heavy seas, holed and fire damage. Service tags are easy to obtain and if fact should come with the extinguiser when brought as it is no use if the equipment is buggered. Cheers


Hey Macdwp01, you get a qualified service technician to service your extinguisher how often??
I hope it's every 6 months, then again for $19 (thats how much I payed for mine ;D )you would just buy a new one wouldn't you.

Anyone like to post the cost of having your extinguisher serviced?

Also anyone used a fire extinguisher on a small boat??

just curious

Garry

[macdwp01]

Yes in our boat (5.5m) we have a fire extinguiser, and yes it has not been serviced, i got my boat in 2001 and it came with safety equipment but for a fire extinguiser to cost $19 it would probably be better off at home in the cupboard then out in the elements at sea. I agree with the policy of having a extingisher and getting it serviced and i will look into mine getting serviced. As i said before fire is one of the main courses of boats getting damaged/sinking and instead of slagging off at authorities about every little rule regulation they bring in and enforce why don't you ask just do it instead of calling it a "joke" why dont you realise its common sense and its a safety issue which takes priority over that new reel in the shop.

[Spaniard_King]

It's a Joke because anyone can place an indentation in an identity tag ::)

And you too can buy one for $19 from probably this countries largest marine supplier(sorry cant tell you the name..against forum rules :-X)

mmm 2001 yours must be prety rusty by now thats unless it' get regular service

Garry

PS mine is nice and shinny and shortly it will have a nice new dent in the tag :o

[macdwp01]

Yeah but if yours cost $19 id be surprised it will work after 3months.

[Spaniard_King]

Well ya got me with that one!

Didn't know the more ya paid the more chance of it workin ::)

Retailers must luv you

cheers

Garry

[FishFrame]

Just to clear this up Wello_Pete, this is the pertinent part of the regulations from Maritime Safety Queensland, part of Queensland Transport (http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/qt/msq.nsf/index/firefighting_equipment):

"All recreational ships over five metres in length must carry equipment capable of extinguishing a fire quickly and effectively. Fire blankets and extinguishers should be purchased from an authorised dealer who will be able to determine the best type for your needs. Fire extinguishers must be serviced by the manufacturer or an authorised agent before the expiry dates. If the equipment is inoperable it must be replaced."

Cheers

Mike

[macdwp01]

No Spianard King, its a case of getting what you paid for, use your brain, you dont have to outload enormous amounts of money but i would suggest i quality fire extinguisher would cost a bit more than $19, but its your choice. I have no doubt it works when you try it, whether though it works after hours in the elements and whether it works in a couple of months is another question. You get what you pay for.

[Big_unit]

I agree that you get what you pay for, so its their choice if someone else has cheap crap safety equipment. I pity the person who for the sake of a $26 watches their boat burn. $19 el cheapo or $45 good quality. You have a responsibility to your crew and passengers, who are usually your mates and children. Is it worth the risk ? Think of it as " life " insurance.

Cheers
James.

[macdwp01]

Totally agree big unit, i cant imagine any type of fire extinguiser that is reliable and good quality to be under $20. Some people i guess aren't prepared to pay good money for a piece of equipment that they will probably (hopefully) never use, but if they do, i would sure as hell what something that is good quality not a sollys job fire extinguisher, hell. The insurance companies won't like it either if they find out you had a shit fire extinguisher on board and as a result your boat sunk in the depths.

[gunna]

In NSW you have to have an extinguisher if you have an under-floor tank. Which is the case with many new small boats these days. I gather thats not the rule up there ??

[Kerry]

All recreational ships over five metres in length must carry equipment capable of extinguishing a fire quickly and effectively

The key words being

....must carry equipment capable of extinguishing a fire quickly and effectively....

which puts the onus back on the operator to carry "equipment" that is "capable" of extinguishing a fire quickly and effectively and if in the event of such an emergency someone is injured then the court will be asking the operator to prove that the equipment was in fact capable of meeting the requirements.

Safety has gone from being descriptive as in "one must carry a Xkg device of type Y" etc and has put the onus onto the operator.

As for testing, the normal commercial time period is 6 months but I "believe" for recreational vessels it is 12 months.

As for testing and tagging it depends on the extingusher as some can be tested past a set number of years where as others have a limited testing life, before they have to be replaced. Generally if one has an old extinguisher it is more cost effective to replace with a new one than have it tested.

And yes a "valid service tag" [smiley=2thumbsup.gif] might help some remember to find it and know where it is at least once a year ;D

Cheers, Kerry.

[devocean]

Why dont you just carry a bucket or a fire blanket. Plenty of water where I go fishing to throw on a fire and a blanket can be just as good as a fire exstiguisher

[cooky]

Best way to put out a fire on your boat is TO SINK IT. It works every single time guaranteed.

I think both arguments in this post are a little flawed, but I can see both sides.

I agree that it would seem a bit ridiculous to get your fire exting. checked every 6 or 12 months unless you guys have a lot friggin more time than I do. I can't even find time to put the bloody rego sticker on. Fortunately I have a mate working for a fire/alarm place and he'll get my good larger exting. for ZIP $.

I have a fire extinguiser in boat, but not sure how current it is. It's your normal small one. I personally would prefer using a blanket and bucket - I think you're wasting your time with a small fire extinguiser (4x4 experts say anythign smaller than a medium is a waste of space - will only calm the fire down before running out).

The argument about getting cheap (getting what you pay for) annoys me a little, because it's these sort of attitudes that are filling Supercheap auto and other cheap-arse stores buying sh*t products. Don't compare cheap to quality. I believe depending on the purpose you should either buy cheap or expensive and not in the middle - think power tools.

[Kerry]

I agree that it would seem a bit ridiculous to get your fire exting. checked every 6 or 12 months unless you guys have a lot friggin more time than I do.

Well it might appear ridiculous to some BUT it does put some of the onus back onto others as having a fire ext. is one thing but knowing, expecting that it will work is quite another but if at least the mob who test it then tag it as being operational and it doesn't work between service periods then the onus can be put onto them otherwise our simply leaving yourself wide open and not covering your own er.. and people who don't take the opportunity to cover their own ar.. regardless of not having the time etc or whatever excuse leave themselves wide wide open.

I suppose those who can't find the time to have safety equipment checked and serviced may not then have time to use it #;) would they? and one would have to ask if they fully know how to use the equipment anyway #::).

Cheers, Kerry.
#
#

[NQCairns]

Hang on! you cannot buy an extingusher in Australia that is crap cheap or not! We have standards all the expensive ones have to do is pass the standard as does the cheaper. I am amazed sometimes by the portal (sp)this site gives into some consumers way of thinking :o. When I throw money around I usually do it gain something tangable or above.
Thanks mike for the info , common sense prevails thankfully. I thought once again more good for nothing but industry proping legislation reared it's ugly head. nq

[macdwp01]

I wouldn't rely on the industrial standard, it is basically a gimmick. Most things will pass it, doesnt mean they are all the same in terms of quality. One must realise you get what you pay for and i for one would not buy a extinguiser for less than $40. One has to realise safety takes preference over all the over things you want to buy for your boat. So until you have a good quality extinguiser you should leave that new reel in the shop.

[Kerry]

Nq, Standards are one thing but standards are generally manufacturing standards and don't necessarily mean all equip carrying an australian stanard meets the following requirement

....equipment must now be serviced by the manufacturer or an authorised agent by their expiry date which must be clearly marked on the item....

So as long as the particular make/model etc can be serviced "by the manufacturer" or "authorized agent" then that meets the requirements so the first question before buying anything is the availability of "serviceability".

Cheers, Kerry.

[Wello_Pete]

I have an extinguisher in my boat that was supplied new by the dealer. Is this a cheap one? I guess you only ever find out when you use it. I have bought quality brand name electrical equipment that has been DOA, had parts missing and plain didn't work when tested.

On a related issue, who, as of right now, can operate their flares? And who has checked that they can use them, and again how do you practice for whenever an emergency may occur?

Cheers

[Big_unit]

There a whole range of pro's and con's for this debate. It all comes down to your personal safety standards. With good management you shouldnt have a fire onboard. However in the event of a fire onboard, I know that it can be put out quickly with minimal damage to my boat. Basically I think you can make your own choices and wear the result.

Cheers
James.

[basserman]

once again i think alot of blokes on this site has blown this right out of proption
as with all safty gear i don't think you can have enoght and you should never say it woun't happen to me
so as for standards or price and qulity who gives a rats bum
any fire extinguisher is better than none and thats the way the water police/water athoritys will see it
i have a fair bit of dealing with these people and every single one tells me that they will much prefure to give a warning and hand over some reading matrial for the regulations that may be getting broken than fineing people on the spot and it is only if some one is well and truly breaking the rules or a real threat on the water that they will fine and in some case take into custordy
they see their jobs as one of makeing everyone safer on the water so if you have all your safty equipment but don't have a stamped fire extinguisher but have a cheap one on board they would be fine and if you didn't have something then most times they will just tell you to get what ever item/s and hand you some reading
the only expction to this would be for commeril boat where there is no lee way with any safty gear
think your selfs lucky that it is only flares and fire extinguishers that need checking on all passanger boats every bit of kit need to be checked every few mounth and that includes life jackets ;D

[Kerry]

I'd suspect that since these requirements have been in force since August 2004 that the time for reading material is past. Apparently a lot of officers are leaving for work without the handouts ;)

The other items that some might carry (apart from flares etc) that also fall into this manufacturer/agent only test and tag basis is inflatable life jackets and Epirbs.

Also part of the same legislation there's the new "Compulsory" Capacity labels and penalties will apply for a breach after 1 September 2005.

Cheers, Kerry.

[basserman]

yeh but i don't think the inflatable life jackets are allowed yet as a pfd1 for outside but are for enclosded water
well in nsw anyway ;D got to love this one rule for here and another for there ::) but know what your saying
hell one day kerry all our gear will need to inspected annualy

but i would be happy to see everyone carry the equipment they are spossed to and not some of the stuff you see at the boat ramps each week
some of the stuff you see make your mind boggle ;D

[cooky]

people who don't take the opportunity to cover their own ar.. regardless of not having the time etc or whatever excuse leave themselves wide wide open

knew you'd be lurking out there somewhere Kerry - just checking ;D

I'm a reasonably safe person as I've stated before, just not as pedantic as some. I accept risk. I have a fire extinguiser in my boat, i have them in my office, i used to have one in my 4x4. I have 2 lots of flares, EPIRB, safety blanket, those floaty things, VHF, I know how to swim, Snorkel, fins/mask, oars, etc.

You can't wrap yourself in cotton wool - just take reasonable steps.

Mind you though I had to have a laugh. That reef trip I went out on the other week (when I was worried about fuel). There I am bottom fishing in the back of the boat and turn around to see my brother in-law in the cuddy cabin sitting on 3 x 20L + 1 x 10L jerry cans full of fuel (they were in the well between the seats). HE's sitting on them and trying to get his lighter to work to light a smoke out of the wind. I reminded him that he was sitting on 70L of unleaded and he said "f**k didn't realise - not a smart move" and proceeded to light his smoke. :D

[Spaniard_King]

Cooky, I think you have touched on a couple of valid points.

There aint enough Safety gear in this world to replace common sense and experience.

This whole new laws things is about us checking out our gear more regularly and seems to be always being thrown back at the operator who is responsible for the safe operation of the vessel and it's passengers.

Probably a lot of people out there who have never seen their safety gear.

Garry

[Kerry]

yeh but i don't think the inflatable life jackets are allowed yet as a pfd1 for outside but are for enclosded water well in nsw anyway....

To be used on offshore yachts then they would have to meet PFD1 standards, wouldn't they as something like the Sydney-Hobart is good enough for being "offshore" :D.

But yes some of the legislation is absolute rubbish and that especially includes the mandatory wearing of life jackets such as in Tasmania.

On the other hand even if some users were led by the hand they still would be a danger to themselves and everybody else including those that have to drag their sorry ar.. back in and generally for simple and stupid things that are totally preventable.

Accepting risk is one thing, being able to manage risk is totally different.

Cheers, Kerry.

[basserman]

To be used on offshore yachts then they would have to meet PFD1 standards, wouldn't they as something like the Sydney-Hobart is good enough for being "offshore" #:D.

Accepting risk is one thing, being able to manage risk is totally different.

Cheers, Kerry.


i belive the sticking point in NSW was the inflatable ones that don't self inflate but that being said yes they have been getting used in offshore boat racing for years
i'm not too sure if they were past yet or not but i do know the ABT was pushing them hard as in their rule you need your PFD1 on while driveing/on the plane
personly i like them and the self-inflationg ones would be good outside and even better as you could have them on all day and not notice them [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

but i need to say i like your last quote ;D

[Gazza]

Regardless of $$$ (personal choice and hypocondriacs included) #::)

As long as gear/equipment is 'accepted as legal' from place of purchase, who could be fined for having 'something' at least. #???

[peterreb]

Isn't it all part of "Duty Of Care",a fire happens,someone gets burnt,your open for litigation,there goes the house,car,everything you own,because of neglect on your behalf.This day an age, anything can happen.

[Gazza]

No more BBQ's at my place ;D

[macdwp01]

Mate, lets just remember to keep our priorities right, especially if your boat is used for offshore fishing. As far as im concerned, a owner of a offshore boat should buy the best quality saftey gear he can afford, obviously though if you can afford to own a boat he should be able to afford a better quality fire extinguisher than a $19 one. With a estuary boat one could probably afford to go down in terms of quantity and quality, obviously one wouldnt need a epbirb ( unless in remote conditions) radios, etc, etc. However, offshore fishing is different and everytime one goes out they must realise that there is a risk that they might not come back for whatever reason. That risk can quickly escalate with crap gear, sudden onset of weather, etc. Since the risk can rise so quickly and easily you should endeavour to have the best quality equipment you think reasonable and you can afford. With the fire extinguisher there is no compromise, fire can down a boat quicker then you can drop a line in the water, insurance companies don't protect you on the water, they help you on land, your insurance on the water for your boat is really a fire blanket and fire extinguiser. Therefore, have something that at least will work, not a $19 extinguiser that would probably be better off used as hair spray bottle.

[Spaniard_King]

Funnily enough what I pay $19 for you probably pay $50 for :o

How big a fire extinguisher do we need in a boat over 5.5m Kerry?

Cheers

Garry

[Spaniard_King]

Just dug this up

Fire extinguishers should have a capacity of 0.9 kg and meet AS 1841.5 Depending on the layout of the vessel and fire risks more than one extinguisher may be required.

Looks like I am well covered with a 1.1kg a whole .2kg to spare ;D

handy web site too http://www.safeboating.org.au/Equipment/State_Safety_Equipment/index.asp#qld

Garry

[Derek Bullock]

Where dig you dig that up Spaniard. I cant see where in Queensland that is a requirement.


Derek

[Spaniard_King]

on the web site I posted Derek

Garry

[Derek Bullock]

I think you should read it again. There is no such requirement for Queensland.

You appear to have quoted the Tasmanian requirements.


Derek

[Kerry]

....How big a fire extinguisher do we need in a boat over 5.5m Kerry?....

Gary,

Sizes are no longer specified and the judgement is left up to to the user who has to meet the following requirement Capable of extinguishing a fire quickly and effectively

So whatever it takes to do that.

Cheers, Kerry.

[Derek Bullock]

QUEENSLAND BOATIES ONLY

This is the Maritime Safety Queensland Website.

http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/qt/msq.nsf/index/safety_equipment_rec

Check it out. Is all the links you need for specifications and definitions.


Derek

[Kerry]

Just dug this up

Fire extinguishers should have a capacity of 0.9 kg and meet AS 1841.5 Depending on the layout of the vessel and fire risks more than one extinguisher may be required.

Looks like I am well covered with a 1.1kg a whole .2kg to spare....

Capacity is no longer valid but if a 0.9kg puts out the fire then it meets the spec if it didn't then it wasn't capable.

Cheers, Kerry.

[Spaniard_King]

I figure a petrol fire on a small vessel you aint gonna have too much time to do much anyway...must be where common sense should cut in hey ???

Looks like ya always in the wrong if ya get into trouble these days ::) accidents or not

Garry

[Gazza]

Geez, if it's a bigger fire than 2 kg. ??? , i'd bail :o

[Spaniard_King]

Geez, if it's a bigger fire than 2 kg. #??? , i'd bail #:o


Hey Gazza, is that before or after the "BANG"....lol

Garry

[Mad_Barry]

After 5 pages, has anyone actually got a link to some sort of test showing the results of an equivalant size and type $19 extingusher vs an equivalant size and type $50 extinguisher ?

[Gazza]

Hey Gazza, is that before or after the "BANG"....lol

Garry
[smiley=fireman.gif]....BEF [smiley=bomb.gif] [smiley=bomb.gif] [smiley=bomb.gif] ..... [smiley=angel.gif]

[subzero]

Just to add Fuel to the fire ;D ;)
I do not profess to be an expert on fire equippment but would imagine a cheaper extinguisher would have a lower BE rating than a more expensive model, apart from the fact of the amount of fire retardent enclosed....

BE rating, what is it, know your extinguisher, BE refers to the wind rating, a general purpose or kitchen extinguisher may have a BE rating of 5. Our comercial extinguishers have a rating of 40... what does all this mean??? Extinguishers designed for indoor use, are best left for indoors... a 5BE extinguisher will be of little or no use in winds anything stronger than 5 knots, another point to consider is that the constant pounding of running around can compact the retardant to such an extent as for it to not work at all when you do need it, every month, tip it upside down and give it a couple of thumps with a rubber mallet, when it expires, test it or ditch it less you expire....
Mmmm, fight a fire with water, what is the source??? you may in fact be hastening your demise by spreading the fire..... think carefully first.... and Sydney to Hobart, ahhh the CLASSIC EXAMPLE of people who either had the gear and no knowledge to go with it, or those that thought it wouldnt happen to them!!! The very same experienced sailors who when in their UPTURNED LIFERAFT fighting for their life, decided to cut a hole in the floor which was now the top to see what was happening outside, all aboard the liferaft died when the wind and waves righted it again, yep she will be right.... it wont happen to me either..... yea right :'( [smiley=behead.gif] [smiley=hanged.gif]
BayFiery, where are you when we need you ;D

[cooky]

I'll have to buy a key ring size fire extinguiser just in case I fart near someone smoking :-X

F**k all people have a fire extinguiser in their house let alone boat / car.

Go dirt bike riding and attach a Fire extinguiser to that too - just in case :o

Mind you they look great in the boat / car - shiny red cylinder thingys. Very professional looking - I think I'll get 4 - one for each corner of the boat. When my mates come fishing with me I'll ask them to complete a Health Questionaire and run them through a Safety induction - showing them where the exits are ;D, how to use the radio, how to use the fire extinguisers, how to use flares (practical examples), how to turn on the EPIRB, how to kill sharks, where the life jackets are, etc. I'll get them to answer a questionnaire showing understanding and then get them to sign their lives away. After their 2 hour induction at the boat ramp we'll go fishing, they'll get pissed and die of heat exhaustion.

[Spaniard_King]

I'll have to buy a key ring size fire extinguiser just in case I fart near someone smoking #:-X

F**k all people have a fire extinguiser in their house let alone boat / car.

Go dirt bike riding and attach a Fire extinguiser to that too - just in case #:o

Mind you they look great in the boat / car - shiny red cylinder thingys. #Very professional looking - I think I'll get 4 - one for each corner of the boat. #When my mates come fishing with me I'll ask them to complete a Health Questionaire and run them through a Safety induction - showing them where the exits are ;D, how to use the radio, how to use the fire extinguisers, how to use flares (practical examples), how to turn on the EPIRB, how to kill sharks, where the life jackets are, etc. #I'll get them to answer a questionnaire showing understanding and then get them to sign their lives away. #After their 2 hour induction at the boat ramp we'll go fishing, they'll get pissed and die of heat exhaustion.



Sh*t cooky,

where do I sign up [smiley=laola.gif]

[smiley=iloveyou.gif]

[budgie]

Fishing (what next) just scares the S#$t out of me!! I think i might just give up.
Budgie

[Kerry]

Subzero [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

Cooky, Now ya talking, that's not as wild as you think :D keep up that thinking and your starting to get the drift [smiley=thumbsup.gif] but pissed :o NO you forgot one thing, the drug and alcohol test.

Cheers, Kerry.

[cooky]

Full medical would be required before admission onto my boat. This would include a pre-screen drug and alcohol test, but nothing to say the mongrels wouldn't get stuck into it once out to sea. There again I enforce a search before entry type arrangement.

[PinHead]

I'll have to buy a key ring size fire extinguiser just in case I fart near someone smoking #:-X

F**k all people have a fire extinguiser in their house let alone boat / car.

Go dirt bike riding and attach a Fire extinguiser to that too - just in case #:o

Mind you they look great in the boat / car - shiny red cylinder thingys. #Very professional looking - I think I'll get 4 - one for each corner of the boat. #When my mates come fishing with me I'll ask them to complete a Health Questionaire and run them through a Safety induction - showing them where the exits are ;D, how to use the radio, how to use the fire extinguisers, how to use flares (practical examples), how to turn on the EPIRB, how to kill sharks, where the life jackets are, etc. #I'll get them to answer a questionnaire showing understanding and then get them to sign their lives away. #After their 2 hour induction at the boat ramp we'll go fishing, they'll get pissed and die of heat exhaustion.



Alas..signing an indemnity form will not release anyone from incompetence. A form will not override the law.

years back..when I was a young pup..I did a bit of rally driving...rolled the car in the early hours one morning...damn thing caught fire..grabbed ext. from under the seat..put it out easily but alas the car was a write off from the roll over. Without the ext. I would not have salvaged anything from it.

[DICER]

Anyone buying small carbon dioxide/dry chemical fire extinguishers (<2kg) consider this...

These small extinguishers will only give you a fight time of between 5-8 seconds. Larger 5kg extinguishers will give you anywhere between 15-30 seconds max. I seriously believe that although the smaller extinguishers are made to Australian Standards, they also provide false security to buyers who think any gear is the right gear. Be sure to know what you are buying, and for what fire it is used etc... and how long can you fight a fire for.

Proper use is all important, especially when you have such limited time with these extinguishers.

Also consider fire blankets - they are very effective when used correctly. Who would ever think to turn your hands in under the blanket rim to protect them when placing them over a fire? Surpisingly you can put out large fires with these - eg a 44 gallon barrel with many liters of diesel. Again it's technique and it's simple to learn.

Seriously consider what you've got (or don't have!) and know how to use it. You never now when it comes in handy (speaking from experience)

DICER

[Kerry]

So does anybody still have BCF (yellow) fire extinguishers on board?

Cheers, Kerry.

[Big_unit]

Regardless of $$$ (personal choice and hypocondriacs included) #::)

As long as gear/equipment is 'accepted as legal' from place of purchase, who could be fined for having 'something' at least. #???

Hey Gazza,
That is a common misconception, the retailer has no responsibility in that respect to the consumer when making a purchase. For example you can go to an Army disposal store and purchase Hand Cuffs and/or an Extendable baton, now without a current Security / Police Weapons license the Police can charge you with possesion of a Restricted Item/s. The retailer does not have to inform you that you shouldnt have it. He will just take your money and watch you leave. My point is you bought them from a store legitamatley but it is illegal to own them without a license and you have no comeback on the retailer. My example is a bit off track but I am sure you know what I mean. The law is complex, not always crystal clear, and it isnt open to interpretation. As I said before its your choice and wear the result.

Cheers
James.

[cooky]

So does anybody still have BCF (yellow) fire extinguishers on board?


no, but on my boat I have a Fire Supression system, it's able to 'contain' any fire before it gets out of control. My boat is the only thing that will burn - you're not in danger - I like to call it THE OCEAN.

[DICER]

*you* and your boat...cooky

[DICER]

Pinhead, how about a passenger train locomotive@160km/h and car (diesel) on level crossing....~12 extinguishers later

[gunna]

So does anybody still have BCF (yellow) fire extinguishers on board?

Cheers, Kerry.


Got one in the kitchen Kerry. And yeh - I know its illegal but its still just about the most effective retardent. I might just have to update one of these days.

[cooky]

*you* and your boat...cooky

yep I might die, oh well.

[Kerry]

Got one in the kitchen Kerry. #And yeh - I know its illegal but its still just about the most effective retardent. #I might just have to update one of these days.

Yes, very illegal to even have one let alone intend to use one, yet they banned them and still don't have anything that is an effective or as efficient replacement.

The only exception is aircraft, not sure if all aircraft but certainly excempted in helicopters.

Cheers, Kerry.

[Blue_Escape]

Here is a quote from AS 1799.1—1992 "Small Pleasure Boats Code Part 1: General requirements for power boats" which is a National Australian Standard.


6.1 PORTABLE FIRE EXTINGUISHERS
6.1.1 Selection The type of fire extinguishers to be carried on a boat shall be appropriate to the
type of fires likely to be encountered. Guidance on the selection of suitable fire extinguishers is given
in AS 2444, and in Appendix E.
6.1.2 General All boats which are powered by a motor should carry at least one extinguisher of
rating not less than 5B.
6.1.3 Large tanks Boats which use petrol and have fuel tanks of capacity greater than 25 L should
carry at least one extinguisher of rating not less than 20B.
6.1.4 LPG or other flammable gases Boats which carry LPG or any other flammable gas on board
should carry an additional extinguisher which is recommended by the manufacturer as being suitable
for flammable gas fires and which has a rating not less than 10B, located in the area of the appliance
which uses the gas.
6.1.5 Flammable liquids Boats which carry kerosene, methylated spirits, or other low flash-point
liquid below decks should carry an additional extinguisher of rating not less than 5B located in the
area of the appliance which uses the liquid.
6.1.6 Boats with accommodation Boats which have sleeping accommodation should carry an
additional extinguisher of rating not less than 2A, located near the exit to the sleeping compartments.
6.1.7 Location and mounting Portable fire extinguishers shall be located so they are readily
accessible from outside the compartment they are intended to serve. Recommended positions are at
the helmsman’s station adjacent to the galley area and engine compartment and near the exit to
sleeping compartments.
Portable fire extinguishers shall be mounted in such a way that they will not come adrift during
operation of the boat, and can be readily demounted for use when required.

[Blue_Escape]

I am not not a proffesional fire fighter, however I work for a major petroleum company and have been on our own fire teams hence have some interest in fuel / fire fighting. I am required to have annual practical (i.e. actually putting out fires) fire extinguisher training and have done a number of 'serious' training courses dealing with major (i.e. 1000's of litres) petroleum fires. The most important thing we learn is to prevent a fire starting in the first place! In this context - maintain your fuel lines, check bilge regularly for fuel, don't smoke while re-fueling etc.
Second thing is a fire extinguisher, no matter how big or good quality/expensive, is (to use the first-aid equivalent) just a "bandaid"! Third thing is you need to know which extinguisher is appropriate and how to use it - this can only be achieved through practical training.

[devocean]

Like I said in post 4 buy a fire blanket covers all types of fires

[Blue_Escape]

Sorry to carry on ...however I feel this is an important safety issue and IMHO I think I can contribute.
In terms of the Quality issue - if an extinguisher is certified to AS1841 it has passed the same extensive testing including pressure, impact, corrosion etc. no matter how cheap it is. Cost difference will probably be metal v/s plastic head. We use metal head units primarily because they are mounted on tankers and can be exposed to major impact in the event of an accident - shouldn't be an issue inside a boat.
You would be surprised how big a fire, you can put out (if you know how to use it) with a 0.9kg unit, 8 seconds is a long time in a fire! If you haven't put it out by then alloy/glass is starting to burn/melt pretty seriously! The advantages of a larger unit are that surrounding heat/buring boat may reignite the fire and they usually have a hose - good for underfloor etc. N.B. dry chem will not cool the fire effected area..get the bucket! Also once activated, the unit may not stop..therefore empty before you need to use it again! Yes, Halon/BCF's are now illegal. I would recommend a fire blanket for the kitchen Cooky - you don't want to see what an (any sort) extinguisher does hitting burning oil/fat. If you don't want to get your unit professionally serviced atleast regularly check the pressure gauge is "green" and give the unit a good shake till you hear the powder moving (The 'Bay chop will compact the powder and when you go to use it all you will get is compressed air!).

Cheers
Blue

[NQCairns]

Kerry I see that colour yellow every now and then when driving ;D
What is so bad about them? hope it is not the BS as in air conditioner gases. anyway interested to know.nq

[Kerry]

....If you don't want to get your unit professionally serviced at least regularly check the pressure gauge is "green" and give the unit a good shake....

Blue_e, Not wanting to get your unit professionally serviced is really not an option, it MUST be professionally serviced based on Qld requirements, which are over and above any national requirements/recommendations.

Interesting you didn't mention the wind rating regardless of standards etc. In windy conditions with some of those low rated units one may as well pi.. into the wind, which would do a lot more good than some ext.


Nq, #;D now why would I tell you that Halon (BCF) is unfriendly to "that" hole, I wouldn't do that #;)

Cheers, Kerry.

[NQCairns]

Thanks for that Kerry, when you stated "very illegal" I thought the stuff might have a habit of sneaking up on a person when asleep or awake! some good reason like that. Now I just feel civilly disobedient again ;D ;D

[megafish71]

Interesting you didn't mention the wind rating regardless of standards etc. In windy conditions with some of those low rated units one may as well pi.. into the wind, which would do a lot more good than some ext.


Cheers, Kerry.


Just one question Kerry, would you be standing on the down wind side of a fire? This would mean that you would be trying to fight a fire from within the flames, doesn't make much sense to me, but then again Im not that bright.

Cheers Ron

[cooky]

where's TROY when you need him?

[redspeckle]

Well i just read all the post's on this matter i can not see about how much is the fine for not having a Tag/Dated Fire Extinguisher ? or have miss what somebody said in the post's.
i see this has turn into a [smiley=angryfire.gif] [smiley=argue.gif] [smiley=behead.gif] topic .
Well for troy might have been [smiley=hanged.gif] so please kept him out of this.
Mitch GO [smiley=cowboy.gif] in 2005.
ps i like cooky post on 16th feb at 9:30am its a good one ;D

[subzero]

megafish71
P.A.S.S
If my memory serves me right, pull, aim, squeeze, sweep. Advance slowly on the fire aiming at the base... judge your distance from the start, to far, no effect, (wind will lessen the effect considerably), to close you can spread the fire very quickly.

Fires are NOT always at the stern of the vessel with the bow facing into the wind. Fires can and do start in the bow of the boat, kids have a tendancy to get bored in boats and if you are one of those unfortunate parents who have little pyromaniacs for kids then any number of things can go wrong, let of the flares, play with matches, not to mention electrical faults from wiring etc..... consequently you may be fighting a fire from the wrong side, (downwind, toxic fumes pouring in your face), in a fire you need to assess very quickly if you CAN save the boat or wether it is advisable not wasting precious time trying to put out a fire that has already taken hold, and wether or not it is more prudent to put out a Mayday, grab your epirb, your grab bag if you have one etc etc..... On water fires are nothing like a house fire where you can fight the fire upwind or flee fairly easily or quickly, boats are full of materials that turn your haven in to a fire storm in literally seconds in some cases.... at the end of the day, shop around by all means, buy something that will do the job in all conditions but also know how to use your equipment properly before you need it as you probably wont have time to read the instructions during the day, and you may be looking for a torch at night... lets face it, how many people here can HONESTLY say, when the power goes out at home that you can find your torch in the dark and you have previously checked the batterys to ensure they will work... try doing it on a boat in the dark in a panic.... dare I say it but IU would bet that their are a few people on here that have absolutely no idea how to use the flares they complain so bitterly about having to buy... thankfully that would be a MINORITY in this site...
My 2c worth

[Gazza]

Advance slowly on the fire aiming at the base... judge your distance from the start, to far, no effect,
Priceless common-sense mate , same as taking away the oxygen supply with a fire/wet blanket [smiley=2thumbsup.gif] [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

[Kerry]

Just one question Kerry, would you be standing on the down wind side of a fire? This would mean that you would be trying to fight a fire from within the flames, doesn't make much sense to me, but them again Im not that bright.

....In windy conditions with some of those low rated units one may as well pi.. into the wind, which would do a lot more good than some ext. If you didn't read that in the context it was written, in that lowly rated fire ext. have about the same affect as pi.. into the wind then maybe I should have just said somthing like cheap, pissy, crap, low rated fire ext. on a boat are a waste of space, get the message but pi... into the wind basically has the same affect.


As for fighting a fire on a boat well it's not like you can always easily run around the other side of a fire either, hey ::) but I'll let you work that one out.

Cheers, Kerry.

[DICER]

very well said Blue...
I have also attended practical training as part of our lab safety, and I would recomend it to anyone. The one I attended covered everything from ratings on extinguishers to putting out variously fed fires. That was before the accident - and therefore I was prepared to some extent.

Preparation and training actually doesn't take that long - especially when you compare it future possible risks encountered anywhere.

uru,
DICER

Can't say though 8 secs, is a long time, fires have a habit of having a head start and warming things up!

[gunna]

I also did a fair bit of fire training back in the days when my work place was prepared to spend dollars on proper warden training. The other thing that is important is to get the retardent into the area without exposing the fire to open air - for example an underfloor fire. It was amazing how effective it was to extinguish a car engine fire by only popping the hood and spraying through the 2 inch gap. Whole different kettle of fish if you opened the hood. I like the fire blanket idea though.

[bay_firey]

Subzero - Where am I - been at 1770 for the week, but I am here now.

Firstly lets consider fire, or more so the fire trianlge.
Ross's Safety Page
Fire Extinguisher Training

1. The Fire Triangle

In order to understand how fire extinguishers work, you first need to know a little bit about fire.

Fire is a chemical reaction involving rapid oxidation (burning) of a fuel.

Four things must be present at the same time in order to produce fire:
FUEL - any combustible material - solid, liquid or gas. Most solids and liquids must vapourise before they will burn.
OXYGEN - Sufficient oxygen must be present in the atmosphere surrounding the fuel for fire to burn.
HEAT- Suficient heat energy must be applied to raise the fuel to it's ignition temperature
Chemical, exothermic reaction - This reaction can occur when all three of the above elements are present in the proper conditions and proportions. Fire (rapid oxidisation) is the result of this chemical reaction.

The combination of these three elements is frequently referred to as the "fire triangle". Add in the fourth element, the chemical reaction, and you actually have a fire "tetrahedron." The important thing to remember is that if any one of these four things can be removed there will be no fire or the fire will be extinguished.

Essentially, fire extinguishers put out fire by taking away one or more elements of the fire triangle/tetrahedron.

Fire safety, at its most basic, is based upon the principle of keeping fuel sources and ignition sources separate.



Fire extinguishers of the DCP, Dry Chemical Powder, and fire blankets remove the oxygen factor.
Lets look at Fire Blankets, only effetive if you can "seal off" the oxygen from the source of heat and fuel"
Now this is not going to be an easy task with a free burning fire on an open boat.
The seat of the fire (not the visible flames) may well be in an underfloor situation, get in there in a hurry with a blanket.

Extinguishers - well where do you start.
What size ? what type? what rating?
Have a look at the Chubb Website (http://www.chubb.com.au/fire_whichExtinguisher.asp)

The rating "5be" has sh*t all to do with wind and is an indication of the size of fire you could expect, not gaurenteed, to extinguish with said extinguisher.

"All recreational ships over five metres in length must carry equipment capable of extinguishing a fire quickly and effectively."

Pie in the sky stuff really, a .9 kg extinguisher will put out a fire quickly and effectively, but a lot smaller fire than a 9kg

It is more than just having an extinguisher, you need to know how and when to use it. Sometimes it may better to get yourself and crew off the vessel as quickly and safely as possible.
If you have insufficient resources to fight the fire your safety is then the prime concern.

[PinHead]

Blue_e, Not wanting to get your unit professionally serviced is really not an option, it MUST be professionally serviced based on Qld requirements, which are over and above any national requirements/recommendations.

Interesting you didn't mention the wind rating regardless of standards etc. In windy conditions with some of those low rated units one may as well pi.. into the wind, which would do a lot more good than some ext.


Nq, #;D now why would I tell you that Halon (BCF) is unfriendly to "that" hole, I wouldn't do that #;)

Cheers, Kerry.


Don't get me started on the biggest piece of crap swallowed by so many people..hole in the ozone layer caused by CFC's etc..never heard so much contrived dribble in my life.

[mini696]

I used to own a Mini and it was done up a reasonable amount, so I bought a 0.9kg ext. for it. Made it look "cool" too. ::)

One day I noticed a fellow in the middle of the road (with everyone else blaring abuse and their horns at him), the funny thing is they didn't notice the smoke billowing out of the engine bay.

So I stopped, gave the extinguisher to the guy and he put the fire out. I was suprised at how big the fire was which it was able to put out.

It was caused by a hydraulic leak onto the exhaust, the poor guy had only just finished doing the car up for his friend and was testing it.

I gave him my number (should have got his) expecting him to pay for the extinguisher but never got a call.

A while later I was removing my stereo, but had forgotten to disconnect the battery :P I accidently sparked some wires and set my dash on fire, luckly I managed to put it out (with my hands), all the time cursing not replacing the extinguisher (the empty holder was still in the car, and the car was parked under the house!!)

Just a story
Mick

[Kerry]

Don't get me started on the biggest piece of crap swallowed by so many people..hole in the ozone layer caused by CFC's etc..never heard so much contrived dribble in my life.


Nope not interested in holes either, holes they come 'n holes they go ;) the only thing certain is that users now have to get their ext's. serviced if they like it or not, no choice, well there is a choice but then the nice man could have a raeson to make with the paper work :-X

Cheers, Kerry.