MACKEREL IN POSSESSION

[redspeckle]

I don't know if this topic has been brought up before ?
Some people where telling me the if you catch 5 mackerel take them home so eatin one give one each to you mates got 2 mackerel left in freezer then go out in weeks time catch another 5 mackerel take them home then fisheries come round check freezer out got total 7 mackerel in possession that means you broke the law is this true ( only bag limit of 5 )
if this is the case does it apply to other fish species as well [smiley=huh2.gif]
Ps can you catch 5 mackerel of each species eg 5 spanish then 5 spotted combine of 10 or is just 5 mackerel only made up 2 spanish & 3 spotted ?
also is bag limit for boat or is it per person mackerel species
Mitch Go [smiley=cowboy.gif] in 2005

[SeaHunt]

In possession means in your possession, so once they make it to your freezer they are technically in your possession. Having said that I have never heard of fisheries raiding anyones home freezer. It is a per person limit, and I think that means someone 16 or over, so even if you do have 7 in your freezer, the missus caught and therefore owns 2 of them. ::)

[mini696]

In possession means in your possession, so once they make it to your freezer they are technically in your possession. Having said that I have never heard of fisheries raiding anyones home freezer. It is a per person limit, and I think that means someone 16 or over, so even if you do have 7 in your freezer, the missus caught and therefore owns 2 of them. #::)

Ditto.

The fisheries wouldn't even be allowed to go into your house, they dont have the legal right to search your home.

Mick

[Boxhead]

In NSW some fish species have a daily per person limit and others have a "in Possesion" limit. Is it the same in QLD? Or are they all "in possesion" limits?

Nath...

[devocean]

Yes this is true for all fish not just mackeral includes barra trout everything with a limit its the only way it can be enforced unfortunaely or else you will have meat fishos catching bag limit dropping them off at shore then going back out again. Trust me I have seen it happen

[baldyhead]

Quote"The fisheries wouldn't even be allowed to go into your house, they don't have the legal right to search your home."
If you live in Queensland THEY HAVE EVERY LEGAL RIGHT TO SEARCH YOUR HOME AND FREEZER WITHOUT A SEARCH WARRANT. Well thats what we were advised by THEM @ a meeting awhile ago.
cheers baldy

[baldyhead]

If you have more than your bag limit of fish etc in your freezer @ your home, the Fisheries will not take you on unless they catch you actually selling fish etc.
A precedent was set some years ago when this was tried by an over zealous officer and in Court the defendant simply stated that he was storing fish in his freezer that was caught and owned by his neighbours and some of his relations.
The judge threw it out and awarded costs against the Department.

[Daintreeboy]

Mate not sure which state you speak of but in QLD you're only allowed 3 Spanish (now with pectoral fin removed).
Here is the fishweb table
http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/fishweb/11416.html#limits

As for NSW. Well I only checked the other day out of interest and I can tell you I thought some of the regulations there pretty strange. Firstly I found it harder to get to the size and bag limits so a not so computer literate person would have trouble. No minimum size for either Spnish or spotted Mackeral? or Jacks? a few others also.

http://www.fisheries.nsw.gov.au/rec/sw/bag_and_size.htm

Cheers, Mark.

[Lucky_Phill]

This topic has been covered in depth a few times before.

All I suggest, is to read the info, " IN FULL" on the fishweb site, as mentioned by others here.

Like most things, I believe, you should know the rules before you do it !

ie:- drive a car
fly a plane
play a sport
gamble

in fact, every aspect of our lives are set by rules. Know the rules and life will be better.

Phill ;D ;)

[Burley_Boy]

Now if the fish are converted to thai fish cakes how many fish cakes equate to a fish??? ::)

[DaneCross]

Ps can you catch 5 mackerel of each species eg 5 spanish then 5 spotted #combine of 10 or is just 5 mackerel only made up 2 spanish & 3 spotted ?
also is bag limit for boat or is it per person mackerel species
Mackerel bag limits are per person. 5 spotted/person, 3 spanish/person.

As a side-note, realistically, what are your chances of getting done by this? Fisheries have enough trouble catching people on the water, let alone going to your house :-/ Has it ever happened?

What would happen if you bought some fish from a seafood joint (filleted) and you brought home your bag limit of mackerel (or any other fish), what are they gonna do DNA test your bought fish?

I rekon your chances are pretty slim mate. At the same time, theres no point in catching more than you can eat, give it to your friends etc or catch and release ;)

Dane

[mono]

I wonder what happens when clients come fishing on my charter in NSW and take five spanish mackerel (NSW bag limit) home into Qld with them on ice!?
I better make some phone calls!!
Cheers

[DaneCross]

Good question mono. i should clear up also that i was talking qld limits above.

[banshee]

G'day Mono,Jay Bee looked into this twelve months or so back regarding Snapper caught in NSW taken back to QLD(10 of bigger than 30cm but under 35cm),I'm prety sure that he found that the law is area specific,when these fish enter QLD they are illegal,but then again I'm not certain.

[Spaniard_King]

Banshee is right.

Your clients can only take "in possession" limits back into QLD.

I took this up with the QLD fisheries at palmy boat ramp one morning after fishing In NSW and returning to QLD (currumbin)

The new laws are in possession limits which is at all times... some people have been rorting it by comin home unloading and going back out. (yep the missus caught that lot...LOL)

cheers

Garry

[mono]

Maybe have I should look at issuing a receipt stating how many fish and were they were caught or something. That law seems a bit stupid. They could have bought them at the co-op at Brunswick and be taking them home, I wonder how that would apply?

[mono]

Gary, there are some boats here doing the same thing. Going out 3 times a day some of them!! One particular boat comes down from Brissy almost every weekend and does this, them loads up and goes home. Everyone down here knows who and whats going on but the fisheries dont seem to be here at the right time!
Cheers

[Spaniard_King]

Mono,

unfortunatley there is no leeway in fishing Laws.. causes too many loop holes ::)

I think the "in possesion law" has left the door open to this type of activity "several trips when the fish are on". The bag limits are great and all but what have they actually achieved. There seems to be more people around this neck of the woods selling fish than ever before, The pro's are no longer selling locally because of this.. there catch is going to Brisbane beacause the price has dropped so much locally.

can't say I have seen fisheries for at least 2 months either

Garry

[kc]

Interesting issue about if a fish is legal where it was caught, can you bring it to Qld where it is then over bag limit, under size or otherwise illegal??

I have been dealing with this at work lately. I can buy "undersize" red emporer from the Northern territory...where they are legally caught and sold by a commercial operator to my wholesale supplier. I can then quite legally buy these and sell them in my restaurant...provided I can show proof of purchase...likewise i could also (technically) buy female mud crabs from NSW or NT and also sell these in Qld.

I am told the issue is "proof of origin", One would assume from that that a person fishing in NSW waters could (technically) come back to QLD with a NSW bag limit and if charged, go to court, use witness statements etc and prove the origin of the catch...bearing in mind you would start from a position of innocent till proven guilty.

Just another example of the stupidity of the lawmakers not getting their heads together before making the rules.

KC

[mono]

Certainly gives more credance for a National Fisheries Department and get rid of state department heads and get them back out in the feild. Save a bloody lot of tax payers money as well I think. The amount of wages-money spent on the top end of the state department would pay for a lot of grass-roots level officers to educate and enforce one set of Australian wide fisheries laws.
Food for thought!
Cheers

[smerl]

Baldyhead

If a Fisheries Officer storms into your house unaccompanied by a Police Officer and a search warrant - I suggest that you call the police. I'm sure they will be quite happy to charge the Fisheries Officer with trespass. If the fisheries officers tell you something different - get them to put it in writing or refer you to the appropriate act giving them that power.

Regards

Smerl

[redspeckle]

You fellow Ausfish's out their reponse pretty quick on this subject
I am not a very good fisherman still learning all the time if i am luckly to bring home a legal fish
so when i have a good days fishing and catching heaps i know what to do now with mackerel bag limits.
thats why i like this ausfish web site ask the questions & get the answer's or help with it and also like bit of light humour as well which makes it into a fun website
Mitch Go [smiley=cowboy.gif] in 2005

[mono]

I checked today with the local NSW fisheries officer and as long as I, as a commercial fishing charter operation, supply a receipt with date & details of fish etc it shouldnt be a problem. He advised checking with the Qld department but! I'll try tomorrow, should be interesting.
Cheers

[basserman]

mono i tottaly agree with ya about a national fisherys
i can understand for the life of me why nsw and qld (mainly tanking about seq and northen nsw) why the laws are so diffrent the fishing is the same so most of the laws should reflect that
but really how diffrent is most of the easten sea board apart from the reefy areas in the tropics ???

[Tony_l]

If a Fisheries Officer storms into your house unaccompanied by a Police Officer and a search warrant - I suggest that you call the police. I'm sure they will be quite happy to charge the Fisheries Officer with trespass. If the fisheries officers tell you something different - get them to put it in writing or refer you to the appropriate act giving them that power.


I guess you should read the fisheries act before making statments as foolish as that.

They can and they do...

[Gazza]

mono i tottaly agree with ya about a national fisherys
i can understand for the life of me why nsw and qld (mainly tanking about seq and northen nsw) why the laws are so diffrent the fishing is the same so most of the laws should reflect that
but really how diffrent is most of the easten sea board apart from the reefy areas in the tropics ???

Look guys ,ASK yourself "this"...

IF i 'steal' Jennies in QLD ,and ..make it ::) ...across the border...is-it-legal ???
IF i keep 30cm MJ's in Qld , and make it to the border ::) ...is-it-legal ???

Some here ,are "indicating" ,it is so ...... ??? ??? ???

AS HOWWWWW CAN LEGALLY CAUGHT FISH ,in nsw!!!!!

BE A friggin crime ,back in QUEENSLAND!!!

State Laws are fine ,where caught in that State...simple.

IF I'M SOME SORT OF FRIGGIN 2ND. CLASS CITIZEN....

Lemme know..before state-of-origin !!! >:( >:( >:( >:(
;D

[Tony_l]

Thats all well and good. But if the fisho's catch a bloke in Mt. Isa with a heap of Barra during the closed season and he says that he caught them in the NT, how do the fisho's know he is telling the truth.

Or should they just believe him??

[Gazza]

Tony....BIG distance differential ::) ,but if "legal" in NT ,and you can prove you were "there"....
WHAT'S the FRIGGIN CRIME .... ??? ??? ???

[Tony_l]

Distance means nothing, how can you prove you were in another state for the day (Qld to NSW), just because you purchase fuel and keep the receipt??

That doesn't mean that you fished, or caught anything for that matter.

I guess it's all about trying to tighten up any loopholes, to try and stop the minority from poaching.

[Burley_Boy]

Umm now if the chappie caught the Barra while the season was on.. does that mean he has to consume them before the season closes???

If a fisheries officer decides he wants to dissect my thai fish cakes to check the qty of fish in them and pushes into my house to do so, I think he'd have a very sore rear end courtesy of my Rottweiler.. ;D ;D ;D
There's laws that don't reflect the intent of the law if carried out to the letter of the law. :P

[Tony_l]

All I can say is that people should download a copy of the fisheries legislation (it's free), and have a read of it. Then there would be a lot less mis-information on this site.

ps. Fish lawfully taken prior to a closed season are exempt.

[kc]

Nice fingermark Tony....and you are right about checking facts before sounding off. Fisheries officers do have right of entry and search...............however need to have reasonable grounds. The big issue for fishos catching fish legally in one state/time and then being in another state/time where the fish is illegal is the issue which started this. It is easy for me to produce a reciept of purchase for "illegal" fish i.e. undersize (in Qld) Reddies.....it is much harder to provide proof of origin for a rec fisher...but then again...we don't have to PROVE because the burden of proof lies with the fisheries prosecutors.

It will be interesting if this every gets to a court.

Just yesterday I was offered imported Coral Trout fillets (from Indoneasia....so possibley poached in Australian waters anyway) from fish CLEARLY undersized and at less than 1/3rd the price of local coral trout fillets.

Just gets more and more complex.

KC

[banshee]

G'day kc,my understanding of the regs in QLD is that a Rec angler is allowed x amount of a particular species at x length in his or her possesion at any given time,I don't see any iffs' or buts,so I would assume that if someone was to be found in possesion outside these limits the fisheries case would be well and truly sound and anyone going to court thinking that the burden of proof rested with fisheries would be in for a rude shock.This is only my understanding,am I incorrect?

[kc]

My advice is no....you are not correct. If you can prove the fish was legally caught (or in my case purchased) then you can not be prosecuted....the issue being "prove".

However, in a justice system where any individual is innocent till proven guilty...I would expect the burden of proof would lie with the fisheries...mind you this is only in theory.....most of us, unless we could mount an expensive legal defence..seem to be guilty till proven innocent.

I can quite legally buy female crabs and undersize (in qld) fish and sell them in the restaurant....dumb, dumb, dumb.

Surely the law makers in this country have the brains to get a consistent set of rules.

KC

[Derek Bullock]

The Criminal Code Act 1899 which is the current Criminal Code for Queensland defines the word possession as:

“possession” includes having under control in any place whatever,whether for the use or benefit of the person of whom the term is used or of another person, and although another person has the actual possession or custody of the thing in question.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm .................... what does that mean ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?


Derek

[Gazza]

The Criminal Code Act 1899 which is the current Criminal Code for Queensland defines the word possession as “possession” includes having under control in any place whatever,whether for the use or benefit of the person of whom the term is used
or of another person, and although another person has the actual
possession or custody of the thing in question.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm .................... what does that mean ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
Derek

Absolutely "nothing" , if the fish , came "into your possession" legally. [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

[Derek Bullock]

To true Gazza, but from my reading of a lot of this post people are more generally looking at how they can beat the law rather than follow it. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Derek

[kc]

or pointing out that the law is a joke and full of loop holes

KC

[mono]

Hi all, just got off the phone with QLD DPI and there is a federel law called "The Mutual Recognition Act" which basically means that each state department must recognise other states laws.
The officer I spoke to was very helpful and co-operative and indicated that, although having in possesion 5 spanish mackerel is against the laws in QLD, commonsence indicates that if the person had an official receipt with full details about date, Charterboat licence numbers, contacts, number of fish etc that the officer would have a lot of trouble prosecuting.
He indicated there is no specific law on the matter (except the act mentioned above) and there has been no test case. The chance of getting pulled over on the way home with an esky full of 'blues' is extremely remote also.
Cheers

[Gazza]

To true Gazza, but from my reading of a lot of this post people are more generally looking at how they can beat the law rather than follow it. #;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Derek

Too FALSE Derek ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
As KC said..he "could" have Jennies and undersize ,served to you 'n me....legally :'(

"my" main point ,is catching a fish or 3, legally...absolutely anywhere ,has no , and should have none ,mud-effect persay ,to doing something illegal ,IF you/me/we didn't "commit a crime" [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

p.s. forgot to mention those 32cms snapper ,those NSwankers "steal" from us as well ::)
:P

[Daintreeboy]

What KC is saying is making me wonder about some cases in Cairns in recent times. Don't remeber the full story but some very popular reataurants were nabbed for undersized crabs and females, similar to what KC is saying. THey did get busted. I'm guessing the prrof of purchase thing was they actually had rerceipts from QLD pros, or I think in this case, a QLD supplier. I wonder what happened there compared to KC.
Cheers, Mark.

[Derek Bullock]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm .................. do we have free trade agreements with other states. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Derek

[banshee]

"Those NSw@nkers",geez gazza G-ing yourself up for State of Origin already.

[Gazza]

[smiley=angryfire.gif] [smiley=angryfire.gif] [smiley=angryfire.gif] [smiley=angryfire.gif] [smiley=angryfire.gif] [smiley=angryfire.gif] [smiley=angryfire.gif] [smiley=angryfire.gif] [smiley=angryfire.gif] [smiley=angryfire.gif] [smiley=angryfire.gif] [smiley=angryfire.gif] [smiley=angryfire.gif] ........ [smiley=angryfire.gif] [smiley=rifle.gif]

[smerl]

I guess you should read the fisheries act before making statments as foolish as that.

They can and they do...

Hi Tony

I take it you are refering to the Fisheries Act 1994 Part 8 Division 2 Clause 145 entitled "Entry to Places". #If so I suggest that you re-read it. #I have attached the link below for your convenience.


www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/F/FisherA94.pdf

Baldyhead - I would still call the police.

Cheers

Smerl

[Derek Bullock]

145 Entry to places

(1) An inspector may enter a place if—
(a) its occupier consents to the entry or the purpose of the
entry is to get the occupier’s consent; or
(b) it is a public place and the entry is made when it is open
to the public; or
(c) it is mentioned in an authority, a fisheries development
approval, or a self-assessable development code, as a
place of business, or another place, required to be open
for inspection and the entry is made when the place is—
(i) open for the conduct of business or otherwise open
for entry; or
(ii) required under the authority, approval or code, to
be open for inspection; or
(d) the entry is permitted by a warrant; or
(e) the entry is necessary to take action the inspector is
required or authorised to take under—
(i) a quarantine declaration; or
(ii) an order under this Act for the taking and removal,
or destruction, of fisheries resources;28 or
(iii) an order under this Act for the taking of action to
stop or delay fisheries resources or plants from
escaping.29
(2) An inspector may also enter a place if—
(a) the place is not within a city or town under the Local
Government Act 1993; and
(b) the place is not the site or curtilage of a building or other
structure used for residential purposes; and
(c) the purpose of the entry is to gain access, by a direct
reasonable route, to a body of water.
(3) In addition, an inspector may enter on, and pass along, the
beds, banks or borders of a body of water.
(4) In this section—
self-assessable development code means a code applying to
self-assessable development.

146 Boarding of boats and entry of vehicles

(1) An inspector may board a boat to find out whether this Act is
being complied with.
(2) An inspector may also board a boat or enter a vehicle if the
inspector has reasonable grounds for suspecting—
(a) the boat or vehicle is being, or has been, used in the
commission of an offence against this Act; or
(b) the boat or vehicle, or a thing in or on the boat or
vehicle, may provide evidence of the commission of an
offence against this Act.
(3) Before boarding an unattended boat or entering an unattended
vehicle under this section, the inspector must take reasonable
steps to advise its owner, or the person in control of it, of the
intention to board or enter.
(4) However, an inspector may enter a secured part of an
unattended boat only if the owner or person in control of the
boat consents or the entry is permitted by a warrant.

147 Boarding of boat, or entry of vehicle, that is moving or
about to move

(1) This section applies if an inspector intends to board a boat or
enter a vehicle under this division, including a boat that is
being carried or towed by a vehicle.
(2) If the boat or vehicle is moving or about to move, the
inspector may signal the person in control of the boat or
vehicle to stop the boat or vehicle or not to move it.
(3) To enable the boat to be boarded or vehicle to be entered, the
inspector may—
(a) act with necessary and reasonable help and force; and
(b) require the person in control of the boat or vehicle to
give reasonable help to the inspector.
(4) A person must obey a signal under subsection (2), unless the
person has a reasonable excuse for disobeying it.
Maximum penalty—200 penalty units.
(5) A person must comply with a requirement under
subsection (3)(b), unless the person has a reasonable excuse
for not complying with it.
Maximum penalty—200 penalty units.
(6) It is a reasonable excuse for a person to disobey a signal under
subsection (2) if—
(a) the person reasonably believes that to obey the signal
immediately would have endangered the person or
someone else, or the boat or vehicle; and
(b) the person obeys the signal as soon as it is practicable to
obey it.

148 Warrants

(1) An inspector may apply to a magistrate for a warrant for a
place or boat.
(2) The application must be sworn and state the grounds on which
the warrant is sought.
(3) The magistrate may refuse to consider the application until the
inspector gives the magistrate all the information the
magistrate requires about the application in the way the
magistrate requires.
Example—
The magistrate may require additional information supporting the
application be given by statutory declaration.
(4) The magistrate may issue a warrant only if the magistrate is
satisfied there are reasonable grounds for suspecting—
(a) there is a particular thing or activity (the evidence) that
may provide evidence of the commission of an offence
against this Act; and
(b) the evidence is, or may be within the next 7 days, at the
place or on the boat.
(5) The warrant must state—
(a) the inspector may, with necessary and reasonable help
and force, enter the place, or board the boat, and
exercise the inspector’s powers under this Act; and
(b) the evidence for which the warrant is issued; and
(c) the hours of the day when entry may be made; and
(d) the day (within 14 days after the warrant’s issue) when
the warrant ends.

[Derek Bullock]

I know people get sick and tired of me quoting the law but this is just an example of how when they make the laws there are also provisions for enforcing them.


Derek

[Tony_l]

I don't need to re-read the sections involved.

The comment was made that a fisheries officer needed to have the police in tow or a person should call the police. As you can see this is not the case.