To Kill or not to Kill .....That is the question .

[Billo]

After reading so many different posts on keeping or Releasing fish , i thought for a change rather then hearing which you think is the right way to deal with each species ...we should know WHY you come to that conclusion . So many heated arguments come out of this topic, understanding each others thoughts could go a long way to helping others understand ( and maybe even convince a few more fisho's to release )

For example , in my younger years if someone had spoken about releasing monster flathead , i would call them crazy .
Same goes for almost every species under the sun actually.
I have found as i have done battle for each species one at a time and reached the goals of so called 'trophy fish ', i have found a respect for that animal , and the craze for hunting one down and killing it vanishes and i am then more into understanding the fish, and to understand doesn't require the Kill . To catch based on the theories you put together and learnt is enough to satisfy my needs of understanding and my enjoyment of targetting that fish.

So when i see younger people talk about targetting marlin and sharks to kill , i can understand their urges ...whilst i don't condone it , i can't exactly give them a blasting as i once was in that frame of mind myself ...i can only hope i can convince them through understanding it is better to see them swim away

To Keep
What else can i say ...but for all the right reasons ...YUM YUM YUM YUM
Bottom bashing - Snapper / Pearlies
Blue water - Spanish / Wahoo / Dolphinfish / Yellowfin / Cobia
Bay - Spotties / Squire
Rivers - Whiting / Cod / Crabs / Prawns

To Release ..........
Sharks - Shit to eat ....( some smaller species can be ok , but lets face it .....still pretty average stuff )
Billfish -Hell of a lot of fun !! BUT targetted hard and i don't want to see them wiped out . Not exceptional feed, way to much for any sitting, freezing any meat sucks !
Tuna ( bluefin / mack / stripey ) - SHITE flesh ...too much blood .
Bream - Not a huge fan of their eating quality
Flathead - Again , not a huge fan of their eating quality

I am sure EVERYONE has a different scope .( for instance i know some people who think bream and flathead are the bomb in a pan )...so why not share with us your Kill or NOT TO KILL lists and a little reason why ....( and any fine recipe's you have that could change my mind on the release list !!!!!! )

[bugman]

Billo,

If I want to eat it - I have to kill it - simple.

If I want to catch something else that I want to eat - I may have to kill another fish to use as bait.

These are the only things that I kill. I do eat a lot though.

Bugman

[squidgiepalmer]

Dame good question i keep a few but nothing big targeted fish flathead and bream like you said bream to me are mother inlaw fish so keep very little but do they fight on light gear only use SP or hard body lures flathead i love to eat but only keep fish between 38 and 50cm all over that go back unless injured they are the breeders, hate it when people nail flathead heads to trees as ( i came i saw i conqured) only makes other people do the same we have to send these big fish back they are the future, when blackfishing i keep very few go back unless i am teaching someone then i release it has been proved that snapper can be caught weigh-in and released this should be the way to go for comps saves a major kill which does happen at most competitions but with saying that with comps if you spend heaps to get there you shpuld be entitled to take some home.
cheers squidgie palmer

[mini696]

As an addition to this topic... How about the theory that since people release fish like Grinners, Catfish, and rays they are dominate in the system and cause an overbalance of the "bad" species. What are your reaction to a statement like that?


As for "To kill or not to kill" I will take a legal fish if I want a feed, other than that I try to release as much as I can.

Problems that arise with this is trying to release damaged or unhealthy fish. Also removing the hooks from a small or delicate fish.

The species of fish I'll keep a feed from is almost endless, but your typical reef species like Reds, Trout, etc. I wont keep Marlin etc (not that I have ever caught one), I wont keep ferals but I may use them for bait in the pots if I am short.

And bait of course.

I live by the theory that in a complex society like ours I cant know everything, so if the "experts" (cough cough) say I can do something, and (in their expert opinion) if I work within their rules I am fishing sustainably (sic), then thats all cool. I would like to be ignorant and do everything I want... But thats "socially" unacceptable.

Mick

[dasher]

Hmm things have certainly changed over the last 50 or so years. No more filling fruit boxes with flatties, no more killing a fish because you didn’t like it, no more cutting up anything small just to use as burley and yes it is for the betterment of our fisheries. I have been through it all and I am still learning. It was only recently I was told to pierce the swim bladder of a fish dragged from the depths and they won’t swim around in circles around the boat. I have a hell of a time working out centimeters (yeah OK piss off I’m not young OK) We got a Spaniard the other side of the 6 mile (top of Fraser) and was told by a charter boat op it would be OK. I’ve been taught to take a sliver off the shoulder of the fish and place it under the tongue and see if there is any reaction. Unfortunately the fish was killed and when tested later was found to be a bit suss, so now this beautiful fish is destined for the crab pots (bloody sad). Another incident on that trip was the capture of good trigger fish which were destined for the BBQ. When unloading we were advised they were toxic and not knowing if true or not they were to become food for the marina fish. Since then we have been unable to find any relationship to toxicity by trigger fish.
It seems education is still not a priority and although Sunfish have a go with the kids, it’s more just tackle and regs. I’ve probably got off track a bit here but I reckon a lot of fish is brought in and then discarded because of ignorance.

[Billo]

Mick , There is ALWAYS exceptions .

I killed my first marlin this summer , after 20 minutes of swimming it, i couldn't get a kick .
The feeling i had was terrible ...i really wanted to see it swim .. and i keep thinking back to ' maybe if i ...... '
I cut it up into 2 killo slabs and delivered it to every Tom dick and Harry !
Atleast i know that it got dispersed and eaten without going to waste.
I will make every effort to see a billy released ...mainly cause it is a lot of effort to see it is not wasted . ;D ..but a sustainable billfish population is definately a bigger want FOR ME then a photo .

bait ...no drama's ....although i don't really bother now , i mostly lure fish or live bait .

As for vermon and the unbalances ....interesting topic !
again , i don't do much bait fishing at all ....so would hardly catch any ' vermon ' or if i do bottom bash in the bay for snaps , would normally say it is grinners on large hooks and they don't last long when i try taking them off the hook .....vicious little critters...just hang themselves don't they !!!!
But it would be good to see others' responses .


Bugman - Kill for feed ...NOTHING wrong with that . A mans gotta eat . If a man likes fish , then he must catch and kill a fish !!!
Squidgy - yep , would be good if more comps could head towards quality fish , not quantity . C&R higher points rulings could help .
I see a lot of comps are heading that way ....a lot more to go ! and as i said , every man is entitled to a feed

[Dug]

Kill them all I say all fish are evil eeeevvviiillll ;D

Dam you fish eaters!

I shoot small furry feral animals too.

[Billo]

Not of track at all Dasher ....those are the same feelings that prompt me to wack this post up .

little things like knowledge of toxins and good eating / bad eating fish ....and releasing techniques ...simple things could keep more fish in the water

[basserman]

well i have no problems with killing a fish for a feed no matter what type it is however like many others on this site i have my own set of bag and size limmits as i see the goverment ones too easy
i only keep the maount of fish that i can eat in one or two days and don't freeze fish but i live only a few minutes from the water so it is easy for me to get some fresh fish when i want
as for some of them prize fish well i have no problems with someone keeping a marlin but not keeping one everytime just once offs ;D Flatties i will only keep from 40-50cm and bream over 35cm and snapper anything over 45cm but nothing over about 5kg to me i would love to see size and bag limmits come together australia wide (like SE Queensland and northen NSW haveing more comon size and bags) and alot more slot sizes

[Boxhead]

I don't understand why people go fishing and then get upset or feel bad when they kill a fish....... ??? eg: Marlin.... Everybody caries on about protecting them for the future and good of the sport, blah, blah, blah...... :(

Fact is this - If you don't want to hurt or kill them then don't bury a 10/0 hook in their guts and drag them in against their will, give em a rub on the nose, cut the line, and send them off to shortly become shark shit....

Fishing is a blood sport, always will be......

Take only what you need, enjoy the experiance, and forget about the politics...

Nath...

[Volvo]

You aint gunna eat it, dont kill it ;), if its gut hooked then maybe you can use it for bait, if you need bait that is :)..
We normally cut Husser for bait if in need of bait, otherwise let go...
Cheers

[jeffo]

top thread billo. no point me voicing my thoughts because id just be repeating EXACTLY what you have said. unless it is a super table fish (the fish you have mentioned) or super bait fish (gar) then they get released.

[squidgiepalmer]

this is one hell of a good question i am looking forward to all the replys that come over the next few days and yes boxhead it is a blood sport but we don't have to be like the gladiators and kill or as you said take wat you need and enjoy the experiance,but unfortunatly politics has come into it and the pollies think they know all from there office in canberra thats why we are losing so much fishing area but thats another story
cheers squidgie palmer

[Angla]

great thread,
About 6 years ago I caught a 900mm long flathead and it was absolutely fantastic to eat and two of the neighbours loved their feeds aswell. The best flathead I've ever tasted by far. I would have released it back except for the fact it was a first.
I'm currently after a big red or emperor as a personal challenge and will keep it if it is legal size and then I may target another species. I must say I am in no way interested in targetting a bill fish. Can't wait for a big cobia as well.
Last trip out we caught and released over 20 red emperor that were all under size but we were rapt to have caught and released all those fish. kept 1 x small shark and 1 x sweetlip for the trip

[blaze]

I eat a lot of fish but I do prefer them to be smaller, always legal though. I also do a bit of tagging of flathead, salmon and gummy shark (if its a 1000mm it goes to the freezer), a few locals are tagging some snapper. I would think in my local area that most people catch fish to eat but dont go over board on the captures.
State regs are we are only allowed 45 combined #scalefish and 2 shark. With in that 45 total there is a posseson limmit on most species like 15 flathead (no max size but most people put the biguns back) Crayfish and abalone are heavily regulated.I have also put the steps in place this year to have our snapper regulated at 2 fish per person/5 per boat as it is a unknown fishery at the moment and my thoughts were to regulate before it gets expluted.
love to eat, be it fish, beef, lamb, rabbit, vegies etc but see the need for regulation
cheers
blaze
ps
so I suppose I kill a lot of things, prefer to do it myself though as I know its humanely done

[dasher]

Not of track at all Dasher ....those are the same feelings that prompt me to wack this post up .

little things like knowledge of toxins and good eating / bad eating fish ....and releasing techniques ...simple things could keep more fish in the water

You've gotta be right, how do we get the message out. ??? ::)

[DICER]

I eat what I keep, except the odd vermin (eg., grinners, and happy momments).
Tuna = sashimi and sushi (fresh is best)
Flathead = fillets with lemongrass and sweet chilli in BBQ foil wraps
Eel = smoked eel
Whiting, bream = panfish (occasionally mullet also when the net is overloaded)
etc...

For instance though, I hated it when fishing for sweep and there is a long long line of cod (from kangaroo island) just floating off the end of the boat, swim bladder up. What do you do? I'm sure you guys pop some eyeballs here.

Or even more perplexing - a beautiful coloured fish like a blue devil, that should be in the sea or a fish tank, but hey it's really really tasty. That one I eat though ;D

[Jeremy]

Fact is this - If you don't want to hurt or kill them then don't bury a 10/0 hook in their guts and drag them in against their will, give em a rub on the nose, cut the line, and send them off to shortly become shark shit....
Nath...

Nath, most people targetting billies these days are using lures for that reason. Some of the comps are lure only for this reason. Lure caught bills release just fine.

My thoughts on this topic...I generally only keep enough for 3-4 meals for two. I don't believe that feeding the relies and neighbours is justified, but sometimes can't be helped if you have caught a really big one.

I think most of the bag limits are excessive and it is ridiculous to suggest that you have to catch $100 worth of fish (or whatever) to justify the petrol you use to get out to the reef.

I get my kicks from hooking and fighting on light line the fish I am targeting. The thrill of the hunt and the skill of the fight. I also enjoy watching a magnificent fish go back to breed or give someone else a thrill.

I never keep bream, just a couple of flathead per trip, love snapper, mackerel, tuna, mahi mahi, cobia.

Jeremy

[Gazza]

KILL....
C&R is for undersize ,or when your fishing in a nursery ::)

Just move your boat to a better spot ! ,and catch a variety to make up your feed/menu ,to tide you/family over for a few days ,until the next time you wet a line for FOOD.

End of story :-X
;D ;)

[JB]

Grinners... Kill em ALL!! ;D

[Billo]

I guess as a whole most responses are that of kill for a feed ! Matching my words ....and that is commendable !
As Dash said earlier about the change from 50 years ago ...times are a changing ....and i am sure in another 50 years it will be a whole new ball park again .....What kind of park will it be though ?
I can assure you that the mind set of most people in south east Queensland that i speak with is light years ahead of southern N.S.W. folk .
I know there is a lot of people down there that practice C&R , but there is still a heck of a lot of comp killings and mass hauls by rec fishos .

A few people talk politics .....WHY ? .......seriously ...what the hell of the politicians got to do with what you put in your esky ?
Aside from the odd green zone ....or protected species ( which i have no problem with - aside from some of these damn GNS Zoning regs taking over our spanish trolling grounds ) they have no influence here ....the post is YOUR THOUGHTS on what is moral or immoral .....The idea is to STOP blaming third parties and bring YOUR CONSCIENCE on the line .
If everyone went out and KILLED THEIR LIMIT .....what state would our fisheries be in ?
Size limits would go up ...smaller bag limits would come into force ......protected areas would increase in numbers .......protected species would increase .
Do you really believe that current legislation STOPS us from getting a decent feed ?....i think it is too wide open for abuse !

I am not expecting everyone to come down the same line and have total agreeance . What i would expect is that most fishos have a little respect for their environment .
I don't mean respect by go hug a tree , ...Respect is something as simple as ' WASTE NOT WANT NOT '....

I see fish carcases at boat ramps where people have taken tiny slither fillets off the shoulders as thats the 'best bit ' ....i see WHOLE carcases as some people's first instinct is to catch and KILL ...then later they decide it's too much hassle cleaning ....or the fish wasn't a good eating fish anyway ......or they just wanted to take it home for a photo ......or take it home to show off ....or look good at the boat ramp .....
This isn't a come forward so we can attack you post !

I have been guilty of some of the above in the past ............yes yes ...shame on me!
But i have felt the guilt and learnt from it , there's no shame in being honest ...i was not taught good practice ...but i soon learnt with the likes of people who already understood !
The feeling ( FOR ME ) of releasing a ' Trophy ' fish far outways the feeling of hanging it !

Maybe those that have not released many 'large ' fish should try it one day .....

Dasher , as for educating ...it's an on going saga isn't it !
I have been showing a few newbies to the world of offshore fishing the last few months .
And we have been releasing some damn good fish ...but i have been giving them the reasons why the whole time .
I guess if everyone one did their bit as an individual to impart their knowledge onto someone else ....the next generation will be on top of their game .

I seriously think that as a community of fisho's , Our peers definitely command a lot of respect and do make a difference.
Sites like this and discussions like this ...if we make one person release a dozen extra fish a year ....that is making a difference is it not !
Its good to see that TV is now getting right into the live way ins ...and a lot more comps are limiting entries to categories as one fish per species etc ...

Those who make the TV shows ......right the magazine articles ......organise the comps .....post reports on the net ....
These are the people who ARE teaching newbies every day .....and yes , that Does mean ALL OF YOU TOO !!!!!!
The next generation are computerised without a doubt .....a lot of their information comes from these sites !

It is us that are the teachers ....we can not expect others to do it for us

[mini696]

My thoughts on this topic...I generally only keep enough for 3-4 meals for two. I don't believe that feeding the relies and neighbours is justified, but sometimes can't be helped if you have caught a really big one.

I think most of the bag limits are excessive and it is ridiculous to suggest that you have to catch $100 worth of fish (or whatever) to justify the petrol you use to get out to the reef.

I get my kicks from hooking and fighting on light line the fish I am targeting. The thrill of the hunt and the skill of the fight. I also enjoy watching a magnificent fish go back to breed or give someone else a thrill.

I never keep bream, just a couple of flathead per trip, love snapper, mackerel, tuna, mahi mahi, cobia.

Jeremy


I agree 100%

Mick

[devocean]

I think its differet for different fishos. If you were paying hundreds od dollars in fuel to get to the reef than you want to catch your bag limit to justify the fuel bill. I know guys who only go out three or four times a year because of their work commitments and I know if I was one of those guys I would be trying to fill every esky there is.

It dosnt matter what we do as recreational fishermen because one pro will catch more coral trout and mackeral in one year than I will in provbably forty years so I dont know how releasing maybe 20 fish a year is goig to make a difference. I just wish you guys could see these live trout boats and mackeral boats unload there weekely catch and youd understand.

[NQCairns]

MMMmmm...well I guess if a person doesn't fish fish for food (death)and fun then they just fish for fun (probable/improbable death).
Possibly the next step would be plastic hooks that are designed to straighten after 30sec of a fight, a win win for both the fish and the not for food fisher?

[Jeremy]

MMMmmm...well I guess if a person doesn't fish fish for food (death)and fun then they just fish for fun (probable/improbable death).
Possibly the next step would be plastic hooks that are designed to straighten after 30sec of a fight, a win win for both the fish and the not for food fisher?


Sorry NQ, don't agree at all that releasing a fish means probable death - if that is what you mean?

Jeremy

[Billo]

NQ , i wouldn't say that there is a probable death for all fish that are released after being captured .
Sure , there is a percentage , but technique makes a BIG difference , AGAIN ...this is something we should be teaching and sharing and should become a common practice

for instance :
* Live baiters using circle hooks .
* Deep water fish having their swim bladder pierced correctly for release .
* swimming large fish like marlin before release
* proper tagging positions and techiques
* limited handling of fish to be released ...

Dev .....i know the pro's completely shatter the fish populations .Pity isn't it ......what can we do about that !?? not too much at the moment , unless you want to join green peace and head out on a scuba mission and cut all their lines and nets ... ;D ;D ;D ....
Seriosuly though ...gotta start somewhere don't we !

The journey of 1000 miles starts with one step !

If you released 20 more fish a year .....and we convinced another 1000 fishos to do the same .....thats an extra 20,000 fish out their that have the potential to breed next cycle ...20,000 more fish breeding could mean 1,000,000 more fry swimming around to battle out for the next season ...

I personally do believe it would make a difference ....maybe nothing noticeable in our life time ...then again ....maybe it could make all the difference !

[Boxhead]

Billo,

You say to "limit handling of fish to be released". Does giving a beaky a bear hug (Your photie) limit handling? Or did you kill this one?

Nath....

[mackmauler]

Boxhead, that bill was a dead before leaving the water....

[dasher]

* Live baiters using circle hooks .
* Deep water fish having their swim bladder pierced correctly for release .
* swimming large fish like marlin before release
* proper tagging positions and techiques
* limited handling of fish to be released ...




This is the sort of info I have been talking about. Lets have more. I've had a freind contact me to say he has a poster that says trigger fish are poisonous. Lets get some info happening eh.

[dasher]

Just as an aside, who realised u sld pierce the swim bladder of a fish u dragged up from the depths. ??? ??? How many of u realised trigger fish are poisonous. ???

[mackmauler]

Dasher, get hold of a grants guide and he tells you what is rubbish and what is not, trigger fish in the mans words are detested bait theifs. hope that helps.

[Daintreeboy]

I'll raise a point here. It is known that fish die after being caught no matter how well they are being treated during capture. So is it better to catch and release or kill the fish to eat, making sure you when you reach your bag limit? While I catch and release on certain occasions, I keep most of my fish when they're within the legal requirements and enjoy eating them. It is debatable which method is better for fish stocks if you stop at your limit. I can't remember the last time I kept fishing once I'd reached my limit.
My point is, nothing wrong with C&R, but keeping your fish is not a crime and people shouldn't be criticised for doing so (hasn't happened on this thread, but seen it before).
Interesting to see C&R folk 'encouraging' their way of life to all and C&K folk simply stating what they do.
Cheers, Mark ;)

[NQCairns]

Yeah, you fellas are right, probable is quite improbable.

For another angle on handling, I understand a fish with a high O2 demand (from the fight) has less 1 minute to be returned to the water before some degree of brain damage occurs no matter how well it was treated above water.
I always cringed at Rex hunt for his extra long blabber to camera with fish in hand.
Would be nice if one of our country's fishing celebs would look into this and if it stands up run with it on show within their normal fish in hand piece to camera.

How long is bi-catch on the typical trawler sorting table?

[Boxhead]

Daintreeboy,

Mate, agree 100%... Good point...

Nath...

[landbasedtossa]

Daintreeboy, you make it sound like a bad thing that the C&R 'encourage' others to think about releasing fish. Let's see - released live fish vs dead fish. Good to see you have an eye on the future, not.

[Daintreeboy]

I tried as hard as possible not to make my post point any fingers in a bad light. That part was merely an observation that I find quite interesting. At this point the C&K fishers are a little bit on the back foot with C&R being the supposedly environmentally friendly way of the future.
If you look at some groups like PETA though it is C&R that is the target for their protesting and banning.
I was just trying to say that there is nothing wrong with keeping your fish for food. We are regulated pretty heavily with bag limits, max and min size limits, closed seasons, closed areas, tackle restrictions and so on. These regs are 'the future' in my books so no angler should be criticised when they stick to these boundaries.
For the record I have a few species I set my own size and bag limits on as I believe the ones in place aren't quite right. Fingermark for example so I'm not exactly a murdering B*astard that kills all and sundry.
Last point, to elaborate on on thing I said. If two blokes go out and catch 14 Coral Trout then go home compared to the two who stay and catch 20 odd from 60 feet of water before heading off. That was the type of example I was on about in my post.
I'll shut up now.
Cheers, Mark.

[Remo]

Different people have different beliefs, but I personally having coming from keeping every legal fish to only keeping the odd one or two for the table.

I find this more satisfying to watch the fish swim away after a couple of photo shots.
All my trophy fish are realsed as I feel that the fish must have done something right or very lucky not to be caught, with all the fishing pressure applied.

Cheers
Ray

[Boxhead]

Remember "Fish are food, not friends" [smiley=chef.gif]

Nath...

[macca]

I'm with Remo

In ten years of freshwater fishing, all catch and release.

Photo for me and watch it swim away.

I fish for sport and relaxation. Too much hard work killing them, my opinion.

Far too many pictures of dead fish in our local Fishing Mags, Again my opinion,

Macca

[banshee]

People that practice C&R,in my opinion,have no business condeming those that keep within the law,wether they take a feed or a bag limit they are acting within guidelines imposed by people that have monitored the fish stocks.I personaly practice C&R on a host of species but there are some species that find the ice box real quick,personal choices are exactly that,personal choices.

[DICER]

I'm not a 100% C&K&eat person, but for those of you who are only C&R, why not just set up a video camera on the bottom and watch the fish come into feed? Surely this is better off for the fish?? :-X

[dasher]

Dasher, get hold of a grants guide and he tells you what is rubbish and what is not, trigger fish in the mans words are detested bait theifs. hope that helps.

Ya right there Rob, but they're easy to catch once you know they're around. Long shank hook and a couple of metres off the bottom and hold on. [smiley=2thumbsup.gif] The problem is Grants don't list them as poisonous either. ??? ??? :o

[jeffo]

i tagged a few hundred fish in the maroochy river about 6-7 years ago. of those few hundred i had about 16 re captures (all in the maroochy). i didnt think that was to bad at all considering 99% of my tagging was done right at the river mouth. appart from deep water fish i feel that the majority or fish released survive, provided they are treated properly when caught (wet hands,minimum time out of water).

[dazza]

hi all,
i think there needs to be alot more education regarding catch and release. i believe fish released properly, ie wet hands, placed into water, no major damage/injuries have a pretty good chance of survival. unfortunatley there is not enough info for the general member of public to educate them about c&r. i would hazzard a guess that the thought of releasing a (legal) fish does not even enter their mind
same as fish meant for the table. treat it with respect ie; kill it in a humane manner, bleed and ice immediatley etc etc

i release about 90% of estuary fish i catch and probably 50% of offshore fish, which is 90 and 50% of f#&k all ;D ;D ;D

cheers
dazza

[kc]

Guys there really is not a lot of benifit disecting fishing into C & R verus fishing for food (not catch & kill).

It is pretty clear a lot of rec fishers practise both (myself included)

The problem we will be faced with in the very near future is an attack on C & R by the ultragreens....to whit...how do you justify C & R when you are just inflicting pain?? /injury on another animal for your own pleasure??

Balance/balance/balance. It is easy to justify fishing as a food gathering exercise and quality family time...it is more difficult if it is just a blood sport with no gain other than personal pleasure.

The end message is we are all recreational fishers...brothers in arms...and the war has already started in the public & political arena.

KC

[Jeremy]

one way to justify C&R KC is to tag and release. Tagging programs aid research into growth rates and movements etc. Very important for some species where virtually nothing is known about these aspects other than from the tagging programs.

Jeremy

[Billo]

Boxhead , as Rob said ...this was dead before it came onboard .
I noted in an earlier reply about that being the first marlin i killed after ages swimming it , it just didn't want to kick .
And i did feel guilty about it as i really wanted to see it swim off ...but it happens .


I am not criticising people who want to kill fish ...FAR FROM IT

If you want a feed ,.....go get a feed ......nothing wrong with getting a feed . as for catch your limit .....this is different for every individual .

If i caught my quota i can assure you there would be some going to waste unless i handed it out to all my neighbours...but i am not going to kill them just because i can ...the neighbours can get their own.
If you are taking a limit for the soul purpose of putting food on your plate ...and you are not wasting ...then good on ya ! go get em !
Its those who take their limit because it looks great in a photo ....or ' wait till the boys see this 'or for any other reason for a show off that i have a personal problem with .

No one goes to the shops and buys 20 kilo of sausages to show off to their mates how big a bbq they can cook ......why ? ....it's a waste !
On the other hand if you have 100 people over and have a bbq cooking , then 20kg of snags is probably about right and not wasted in the slightest ......get my drift




KC ...very interesting and somewhat true angle

Jeremy ....Brilliant Response !

[kc]

Good call Jeremy but there are no tagging programs for the high profile C & R "events" Bass/Bream.

But your right. If "we" are seen to be assisting the understanding and science of a particular fishery by tagging it is something we can be proud of.

Personally....over the years...I have been a mad keen tagger. Of more recent times, I have just been a mix of fish for food and fish for fun (C & R)....I would be interested to hear back as to how many on this post who are more into C & R , actually T & R.

KC

[imagineer]

Great debate guys.
I have only recently started fishing in the Bay and I am from N.Ireland 4 yrs.

In Ireland course fish (bream, perch, pike, carp,etc are almost always catch and release. However game (trout salmon etc ) are almost always kept when legal.

I would love to get involved with some tagging . Where do I get the tags and can they supply a training video on hazards with particular species, proper management, tagging etc?

There is a huge demand for this sort of educational market and more and more children are science minded, so the ability to go fishing and participate on marine science is a very powerful motivator.

Children do not want to kill (generally) but are taught to as we all have . I Do KILL as well.

There is a major opportunity for some very popular P.R. by the fisheries people offering this stuff through clubs schools etc.

Just my 5c worth.

I never catch anything worth killing. besides the colours get me everytime . In Ireland everything if a shade of black :-[

Great site
Many Thanks

Neil

[Jeremy]

Bil Sawynook is the tagging coordinator for Qld. It is run by SunTag through SunFish (yes, all very confusing). I know that all ANSA clubs can get tags from Bill, not sure about other clubs or outside of clubs.

I think the game tags are sourced from NSW fisheries - crazy.

Jeremy

[squidgiepalmer]

This is one hell of a great debate i have been on another site were this subject lasted two days. It is great to see so many different veiws but i am still C&R and will never change nothing better than see that fish swim away after pics or no pics, but as i said before i eat fish three times a week, no chloesterol fish is good for you, but as was said not all know how to release properly or for that matter how to handle fish properly so may i suggest that Ausfish get someone that knows how to release and handle fish the right way, i know that it has been written about in books and mags, but someone to tell us all the good the bad and the ugly of C&R just a thought
cheers squidgie palmer

[Daintreeboy]

I looked into Tag and Release only a couple of months ago, too expensive to do IMO.
Cheers, Mark.

[Boxhead]

Billo,

Fair call on the beaky, I must have missed you comments earlier.......

Do you think it's OK to give fish to friends, family and nieghbours etc? I mean, if a rec fisho is giving them a few fish surely this is a better scenario than them going and buying the product from a fish mongrel (I did mean monger ;D)...... If they generate less demand, will there be a need for less supply? If so, this has got to be a good thing....

Better to be supplied off a hook than dragged from the ocean with a net.....

Nath....

[devocean]

I think that supplying fish to your friends is a good thing. Its the neighbourly thing to do. Having good neighbours is essential I reckon and if it cost you a couple of crabs or crays or fish than its worth it.

[devocean]

By the way most of the demand created for seafood and pros comes from overseas. Its the same with aquarium fiosh wild caught for marine aquariums. Nearly all ofit goes overseas or to sydney or melbourne. I think it is a common myth that people think seafood caught in qld stays here.

[jeffo]

mark- what were the costs involved? :-/

[Gazza]

KILL......
with a purpose ,for a feed.....within Regs/Law
C&R(only) wallys/perfectpersons #::) # ,say you DO e-a-t fish,even IF ya don't #??? ,so U can keep "fishing? forever more"
Oversize and underbag , is fine #[smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

:P Just don't ANNOY ,what we "MEATOS" came to ENJOY #:P
p.s. Tagging can introduce disease ,just chuck it back if undersize # 8)

[Daintreeboy]

Can't remember the exact details but something like 70 bucks to register (yearly thing). You have to buy the tagging kit setup and tags for the first year. After that they supply the tags. I'll try and track it down again if this is wrong but I felt 70 bucks a year was a bit much for this type of thing.
Cheers, Mark.

[Jeremy]

tagging guns for estuary fish cost about $45, and the tags are supplied free.

I am not sure of the cost for tag applicators for game fish, but the tags are also free from NSW fisheries.

The tag guns or applicators should last a few years, if not forever, so the cost really isn't much.

Jeremy.

[Billo]

Nath , no dramas with that at all ! ( IMHO ....but that is MY opinion )
I feed my neighbours and a few people i work with when their is fish to go around .
Last time was with a good wahoo .We only took one fish but when you get 10 kg of great fillets ...may as well go fresh in someones pan then in the freezer .
But i don't catch a bag limit just because i can and then offload because i don't want it ....if they ask me to get some , or it is known they want fish each time i go out ..fair enough !

I just don't like the thought of fish going to waste .

As for the pro's , yep , the local market gets hardly anything of it .
There is no way you can make any impact on the professional trade by boycotting or minimising consumers of seafood stores ...the only people who would feel that are the small time operators and the shop owners themselves ....to hit the trawlers unfortunately the only appropriate track is hit the pollies ....good luck !

I reckon a good & SIMPLE way to start getting info around atleast here , is to maybe post a ' FISH FACTS ' post each week for a different species.
Under that post people can discuss fishing techniques & rigs that minimise death rates for those that are releases ....handling practices ....eating quality ,information on toxins / poisons ie cigurettia ( for example ...how many people know at what size a Spaniards heavy metal levels are dangerous ???...shite ...i don't ! ) #...maybe even recipes to see it put to good use !

Any thoughts ?

[bluedog]

about 70% 0f my fishing is done in freshwater and i don't like the taste of freshwater fish so i release the natives and kill the exotics with the exception of trout.
I love to eat some species of sea fish and kill what i need for a feed or for bait the rest i release.
For me fishing is a passion, I love it and i love the environment i fish in, it is my escape from the day to day bullshit i have to put up with. Therefore, it is in my best interests to preserve it as best i can so i have no desire for trophys i rarely take photos (mostly because i forget the camera). i love the thrill of the catch, the look of the fish, seeing that it is healthy and releasing back into a healthy environment.

[kc]

Seems that amongst those posting that Tag & Release are in a small minority but straight Catch & Release is very common. Brings me back to the point that C & R is painting a big bullseye on our backs and we are in the sights of the ultra-greens as a result. Not a critisism, just an observation. I C & R a lot of what i get too and just love fishing......it comes back to the battlegrounds we will have to fight over the next few years, just like they did (& failed) in Europe, where C & R, live bait fishing, all forms of fishing competitions and now fishig "parks" are now banned. Fioshing over there is now the socially unacceptable pastime of a marginalised few.......the greens have a 20 year headstart over there...

KC

[Gazza]

about 70% 0f my fishing is done in freshwater and i don't like the taste of freshwater fish so i release the natives and kill the exotics with the exception of trout.
I love to eat some species of sea fish and kill what i need for a feed or for bait the rest i release.


For me fishing is a passion, I love it and i love the environment i fish in, it is my escape from the day to day bullshit i have to put up with. Therefore, it is in my best interests to preserve it as best i can so i have no desire for trophys i rarely take photos (mostly because i forget the camera). i love the thrill of the catch, the look of the fish, seeing that it is healthy and releasing back into a healthy environment.

Bluedog ,"freshwater" taste...are you referring to impoundment or riverflow "fish" OR both #??? ..there is a diff #[smiley=2thumbsup.gif] ,but also a possible "preparation" problem #???

As for photos ,do it if you want ,but forgetting t-h-e Camera suggests your dumb #;D or absent-minded #;D ...like...what the!!!
(m8 , i own a camera too ,and always ...err..don't bother)

I ask U ,do you "forget" your tacklebox....errr... often ??? #:-X

[bluedog]

Hi Gazza.

Like me it seems you were sitting in front of the computer on a Saturday morning instead of fishing. What a bummer.

In regards to eating freshwater fish I've tried them from both inpoundments and rivers and know about how treated sewerage, algae, mud etc in the waters affect the taste of the flesh. I've tried soaking fish in clean water and brine and also tried vinegar in the water. I've also removed the fat from along the back bone and belly flaps on Yellow Belly and Cod. But I'm still not a great lover of them. I think it is more a question of texture than taste, to me they seem oily with the exception of Redfin which have a dry flakey flesh similar to that of a Bream for example. Having said that I still eat the very occasional trout. if I have time, where it's caught wrapped in foil on hot coals.


As for photos I'm not absent minded but just couldn't be bothered. A lot of the fishing I do is off the beaten track and it's extra weight i don't wish to carry. I do take the camera though when I'm off on holidays or a trip somewhere new.

I never forget the fishing gear, it stays in the packpack unless I'm off for quick few hours fishing somewhere close.

If you have any tips on making my freshwater fish eating experience more enjoyable I'd be more than grateful if you shared them with me.

Regards, bluedog.

[DICER]

KC, yes, another thing to bring up is that in some countries (like the Netherlands) live baiting is prohibited...perhaps it is not like catch and release !! For instance in the Netherlands if you are caught using any fish live it's a 90 euro fine (aka 160 australian dollars). Now you wouldn't want the ultraconservatives coming in with rules for the bait pinching bait fish. You can however use any type of household vermin (eg. coachroaches, mice etc.).

However, it's not all true what you say. Fishing and competitions are alive and well here in the Netherlands. Yes carp fishing, 1 metre pikeperch (which I will score someday), pike and many other species are targeted here. But I would have to say that the majority is catch and release. Not just because of the water quality. The pros do target pikeperch and they end up in the markets and on the table.

Different story in Germany. Fishing is much more regulated. There is also a lot more fish and eel farms dotted around the country side. They taste pretty good (except carp - which I refuse to eat).