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View Full Version : Boatclub - VMR / Coast Guard Membership Pt 2



whichway
16-04-2005, 03:35 AM
Sorry to bang on about an old topic of mine, but new info from this mornings Courier Mail

A new service for boaties will be launched at the .. Tinnie and Tackle Show ...

Called Boatclub, this Australian first will provide boaties with a free on-water breakdown service and discounted services and products through BIAQ members.

BIAQ GM Barry Hibberd says VMR and Coast Guard services will be funded to provide the service.

Membership which will cost $50 per year will be open to all boaties

In return for their subscription members will get one free on-water rescue a year from VMR and Coastguard as well as electronic advice of legislation changes affecting boat owners.

The membership card will earn discounted entry to BIAQ boat shows, access to insurance services and discounts at participating BIAQ outlets

"Our contribution to the VMR and Coastguard organisations will relieve some of the strain on their human resources by not having to utilise as much valuable manpower on fundraising" Hibberd said.

Sounds like a win / win all round. Any feedback from VMR members.

Whichway

Y-Not
16-04-2005, 06:27 AM
Sounds like a real good deal all round. Hope for the various rescue orginisations sake it gets up 8)

Bosunsmate
16-04-2005, 10:18 AM
VMR408 Coast Guard Townsville has had a similar thing in op for many years now which they call the "Rescue Club" which is around $30 or so per year. each time you go out you give a trip sheet with all the relevant details about ya trip and boat, if your not back at the specified tim ethey start calling you on the 27meg/vhf & hf.

It's a great idea but it will need planning and support staff to make it work. Lots of hard yards ahead to make it successful; but hey if it works all the better.

Morlers
16-04-2005, 02:22 PM
Question: If the $50 'subscription' goes to Boatclub rather than the VMR/CoastGuard groups then what will fund them? If no funds then no VMR/CoastGuard to rescue boaties! ???

:) :)

Morlers

Spaniard_King
16-04-2005, 03:39 PM
I aint really happy with this $50 boatclub stuff.

All I can se is VMR loosing out and in the long run "we loose out"

So who decides who's 50 bucks goes where???

and how much of our 50 bucks gets to the VMR, after all they are the ones comin out to rescue us.

Not a good idea, my $$$ is goin to the VMR not some half way house grrrrr

Garry

oscar
16-04-2005, 03:41 PM
At present you can donate direct to the VMR/Coast Guard and they get the $50, not just part of it.

oscar

DR
16-04-2005, 03:43 PM
a lot or the VMR offer pretty much that anyway,except discount at boatshops, & they get the whole $50, so just join directly

whichway
16-04-2005, 04:28 PM
I agree that if someone is skimming a significant amount off the top, it's a bad deal for the VMR/Coast Guard. and ultimately us boaties.

In theory though, it could actually be of benefit, if only a small amount deducted for administration, because more people might join if they thought that they would get better coverage for rescues or a more organised system of side benefits (if say it was run like the RACQ for example).

I suppose that human nature being what it usually is, someone will be in there getting as much as they can for their cut.

Does anyone actually know if this is a not for profit :) or a commercial enterprise :'( .

Whichway

SeaSaw
16-04-2005, 05:24 PM
I'd be interested to hear if there are any limitations to the coverage i.e. does it matter how far you are offshore to get a free tow?

This is happening because VMR & Coastgaurd just don't seem to be able to agree on reciprocal rights, so I think it is a good thing, even if it just forces them to get together and come to an agreement. I for one have not joined a VMR because I operate from too many different ports, so I would need to join lots of VMR & Coastgaurds to get coverage. If this gives me coverage then it is $50 they otherwise would not be getting.

I reckon the VMR & Coastguard do a great job, but I know a lot of people that think like me, so they are missing a lot of funding by not doing a reciprocal rights deal.

Mark

boatboy50
16-04-2005, 05:55 PM
Hey Guys,

As a member of VMR Southport ive never heard of this new deal. As far as i know we dont support it, and it doesnt make economic sense to me.

Obviously early days, but youd think VMR would know about it before it was in the paper?

Regards
Darren

SeaSaw
16-04-2005, 07:11 PM
Darren,

I wonder if they even have to tell you.

I pay them $50
I call VMR Southport and get a tow
VMR Southport send me the bill
They pay the bill for me

I think they are trying to cut you guys out of the loop and capture your existing membership base plus get more people in. I have to admitt they are more likely in it for the profits, so a much better service would be provided if VMR could sort it all out internally and offer the same coverage. ???

Mark

dazza
17-04-2005, 02:49 AM
hi all,
firstly i think rescue organisations do a great job, but i think they lose alot of memberships because they do not have a reciprocal agreement between units and organisations.
what is the point of being a member of vmr bribie if i need a tow from tin can bay coast guard ???
do they expect us to be members of multiple different rescue organisations, currently the answer is yes.
maybe the $50 is well spent to give coverage in different areas, if anything it may get the respective rescue organisations talking and do something about the current arrangement.

finga64
17-04-2005, 05:09 AM
I am lucky and mainly fish from two areas. 1 in QLD and 1 in NSW. I 'donate' $50 to each and feel no remorse what-so-ever. To me the $50 each is very cheap peace of mind. I have never used it and I consider the 'donation' a thanks very much just for the looking out for me. At Evans Head the rescue boys even go down to the boat ramp to get details of all the regular guys which include car/trailer rego and contact phone numbers. If your late and they can't get you on phone or radio they check the car park. For this alone I gladly give the $50.
Well done all the rescue blokes and girls!!

subzero
19-04-2005, 02:26 PM
Hi all, I have kept quiet on this subject untill I could find out some official word from within VMR about the new service(s) being offered bt the BIAQ. Surprisingly, at local level the units know nothing about it. I believe contact is going to be made with BIAQ asking for details on this and any arrangements that have been made??? (Or not made)

Some points to ponder
During the week at nights, on the weekend or the middle of the night, over long weekends and public hollidays how do we access their membership list's, but more importantly your vessel details in a real emergency. In a real emergency currently, if the after hours numbers are called by the rescue units or water police the respective holder of your details will trudge down to the unit for your full details including any health problems, medication, vessel details, normal area of operation, car and trailer rego's, emergency contacts etc etc if these full details are held. (In some cases these details are instantly accessable at the home of the person on call). Mmmm, will the BIAQ do this??? Dont think so, could be wrong though.
The units will more than likely offer a personal touch as you get to know the members. For instance, one of our members boats by herself frequently. We know that she has a serious heart condition, is a bleeder, and is on some very serious medication.... when she is on the water she is monotored like a hawk, at all times she is assisted with launch and recovery of her vessel regardless of the weather, because we are aware of her health... will the BIAQ offer to pass on those VERY SERIOUS health problems to the unit that they launch from so that we can attempt to head off any problems before they happen or will they abide by the privacy laws... will the BIAQ watch known vehicles owned by waterside assist members and attempt to make contact with the vessel or emergency numbers if they feel that their are dodgy characters hanging around their cars and trailers... dont think so.... will the BIAQ in many cases offer unit callsigns to members to improve their security over the radio when logging on via the radio so that those lying in wait to swipe your car and trailer when you head out for a days fishing... will you be offered the units washdown fascilities, free or subsidised courses etc, dont think so....

Do the units make money out of their waterside members, sure do, why, because the people who join are the switched on ones who take their safety and the safety of others seriously, they also take their maintanance on their boats seriously, they know what they are doing and where they are going and are prepared for all foreseeable eventualitys... consequently, we dont get to much work from them... (I am not having a go here at those that dont join these programmes, in some areas their arent any services for a starter). Anyhow these are VALUABLE FUNDS for the rescue groups and they will be sadly missed if this eventuates on a cost basis and will put units in direct competition with each other.... will 1 unit be preffered over another unit because they have smaller vessels, or charge less, will this increase waiting times, you bet... price comes down, units do more fundraising, loose more members because of all the extra hours shaking tins, units cant man the rosters, base closes down... ONE UNIT IN MORTON BAY is in DIRE STRAITS NOW with lack of membership and poor funding... I guess more to come!!!

The user pays principle is KILLING vollunteer groups, we are users, we are FORCED to pay, unfortunately training cant be charged out to the next poor hapless boater who breaks down, BUT we have no choice but to train and remain competant... if we are NOT competant, the boats cant go on the water... so the boaties loose it, its a vicious circle....

Will VMR and Coast Guard sort their differences out in the short term... doubt it... to many big fat ego's and pompous so and so's in their flash uniforms that choose to live in the dark ages...
Will VMR of QUEENSLAND sort their sh#t out and set up a proper State wide with recipricol rights membership in the near future... yep I think so, the more people that join the waterside assist memberships WILL FORCE it to be sorted out and improved.

I have kept it quiet untill now, but I resigned from VMR Victoria Point 6 weeks ago after 5 years... Why did I do it, because I got sick and tired of wondering where the next penny was coming from, worrying about spending money trying to train people without using fuel, trying to dream up ways of making money and shaking tins... do I miss it? YOU BET, am I going back, NEVER untill members get decent treatment from Governments where we no longer have to pay for our First Aid courses, MROCP certificates, Uniforms, Boat Licences.... I estimate that last year on lost work hours, fuel, course costs etc I spent $1,600-00 on myself and my daughter, (who chucked it in 4 months before me) to be vollunteers. Damn, I have gone in to a whinging whining rave.... [smiley=bigcry.gif]

Join BIAQ if you feel it's value for money and that they will truely look after you

Cheers Lloyd
P.S
I am still 100% loyal to VMR Victoria Point, it's management and members, NO sour grapes here at unit level ;D. I am also in full support of all other VMR units who are going through a very difficult time.
I still run the Radio Courses as I believe it benefits both the units and the boaties and the Commodore and committee accepted my offer to continue to do so.

Bosunsmate
19-04-2005, 04:06 PM
Hi there Lloyd, I am an Ex-CG member who left as a very disgruntled volunteer, the reason for my disgruntlememnt was the very protective command structure that supported the "Old Boys Club" of which only those members of the flotilla who owned businesses or were members of other community organisations such as Apex/Lions etc... were admitted.

The "Old Boys Club" is the archaic cavedweller attitude that is the cause for the demise of many members here in Townsville as it prevented normal members from advancing to the command ranks and I believe it is the primary cause for the difference between other VMR's such as Air Sea Rescue and Coast Guard.

Yes membership is also dwindling due to the excessive workloads being placed upon units/flotillas members to raise funds for their individual survival and the introduction of the new rescue system could work at solving this problem by providing the funds and ensuring they are distributed according to registration location (Register in Townsville = Funds to CG Townsville / Register Bowen = Funds to Air Sea Rescue Bowen).

Over all IMO it is high time that all of the VMR organisations were brought under the umbrella of the National Air Sea Rescue Co-Ordination Centre in Canberra and they received government funding in much the same way as the Royal Coast Guard in the UK and the US Coast Guard. I am not saying make them (para)military units but I am advocating the introduction of a central controlling body to which all flotillas/units are responsible and reportable. This would also enable the charging of a fee for services rendered which would be payable to the flotilla/unit who performed the rescue.

vp3
19-04-2005, 04:09 PM
Lloyd, very well said.

Ian

fishfingersu
19-04-2005, 05:54 PM
Lyoyd,

Your right, the vollunteers do so much good work at present and now it looks like they will have to work for the BIAQ as well. Which is not good news, as far as we know, they will be taking all of the $50 membership for themselves and they wont be giving anything to the VMR or Coastguard until they do a rescue, It dosnt make sense, can someone let us know what is happening, >:( why do the VMR have to have to be paid by the boat club, Our units get $55 or $65 to join for a year and that goes directly to run the squads.

would like to know what the coastguard thinks, have spoken with our local VMR and they dont like the idea

cheers

Bruce

subzero
19-04-2005, 05:58 PM
Gidday Bosun, had a feeling you might have been involved somewhere along the line with Volunteering reading your posts.

Know what you mean with regards people not wanting to change as things go up the ladder in some of the groups and units. What is sad is that a lot of these more senior members have a wealth of knowledge and experience but cant be bothered or dont feel comfortable with teaching others. Many tend to be 1 man bands who are only interested in reliving past glories but cant be bothered helping or training the next generation. (Thankfully this was not the case at Vicky Point and most other VMRAQ units).
Ultimately we are all controlled from Canberra as an Organisation but at State level "VKR Water Police are our controlling authority" in Queensland.

When you refer to the support of Federal Gov the States are left pretty much to their own devices. In our case support is limited to a measley $20,000-00 pa plus funds loaned to the units to ASSIST with the replacement of their vessels when the need arises but generaly covers approximately 50% of the vessel, more in some cases, less in others. (Goes in to a pool that accumalates). The operational budget of $20g is chewed up very quickly on insurances for the boats, base and workcover fees for members which have to be paid for, administration, and of course maintanance. Safety equipment, fuel, training etc comes out of basicly Waterside Assist and begging by the members.

What absolutely boggles my mind is the disparity in support between the different volunteer groups. SES, Surf Life Savers, Rural Fire Brigade, Honorary Ambo's etc have far superior assistance both financially and in support with training where the members dont have to pay for training clothing etc.... I dont begrudge them that, far from it, they deserve every cent they get and probably a lot more... but at least they do get a bit more than a token gesture.

I can think of nothing better that getting some assistance with training from the Navy, which is the way most Countries with such vast Coastlines as Australia get. I have a mate in the RNLI (Irish lifeboats), and the support they get is astronomical... hell, I cant even get the Navy to turn up with recruitment posters etc to Boaties Markets and maybe interest a couple of young blokes to join up, let alone help us train... dont want to know us at all...

At the end of the day, Waterside assist memberships have become essential to units who have worked hard on an individual basis to get them up and running, to gain a residual income, and suspect that with the BIAQ trying to get in on the act will lead to direct competition between the units... may appear to be a good thing to some but its like beauty, its only skin deep.... my SUSPICION is that BIAQ will take your money, in the event of a breakdown they will ring a unit that offers the best prices, not nessecarily the closest one to you and get them to do the job... different units have different operating costs because of their operational area... those that may have to go way out to sea are likely to have significantly larger boats than units that do more close in shore work and therefore use smaller vessels with lower running costs... who will they call, more likely the cheaper units, not nessecarily the one best equipped for the job.. (We have smaller boats so this is not sour grapes, we are likely to be very busy while others sit around).... at the end of the day, costs will dictate who does what, not requirements, sadly their will be no money in the pot for training which still has to be done but funds will be drying up...

Now I dont know the details at all of this proposal, (it appears to me no one does at local level) and maybe I am shooting my mouth off about something I know nothing about. PERSONALLY, I cant see how this could benefit any rescue groups unless it was modled something similar to what the RACQ had to offer if VMR and Coastguard in Qld could sort themselves out and work as a team, administration costs only to BIAQ, the rest would go to the units in total through the parent bodies. I hope this is the case!!!.
Kind Regards Lloyd

fishfingersu
19-04-2005, 06:41 PM
Lloyd,

Your right, I recon that the BIAQ will be a call center and they will take over the handling of rescues on the water, why else would they want to start selling membership ?? If they only charge $50 per year to join, It cheaper than joining the VMR or coastguard so everyone will switch to the Boat club and bingo, no more members at our local squad, no money to run our boats. does the boat club have a website ????

cheers


Bruce

fishfingersu
19-04-2005, 06:41 PM
Lloyd,

Your right, I recon that the BIAQ will be a call center and they will take over the handling of rescues on the water, why else would they want to start selling membership ?? If they only charge $50 per year to join, It cheaper than joining the VMR or coastguard so everyone will switch to the Boat club and bingo, no more members at our local squad, no money to run our boats. does the boat club have a website ????

cheers


Bruce

jugs
20-04-2005, 04:12 AM
I initially thought that the BIAQ was a great idea. Then, after reading all of this, realized the impact it would have on our VMR's. I think the BIAQ are styling themsleves as the RACQ of the water- great for the punters, not so great for the VMR's.
We have refrained from joining a VMR, as we boat in different areas and dont want to pay 4-5x $50 per year for our peace of mind! Sort of sticking our heads in the sand and hoping that nothing will go wrong. #[smiley=freak.gif]I just wish the VMR's would cut the political old boy crap and think about why they are there- to keep members of the public safe. Maybe then they would sort out this reciprocal membership deal, and many more boaties like us, would be happy to join the VMR. Sad to hear you left VMR Lloyd. I am sure you will be sorely missed!

subzero
20-04-2005, 03:35 PM
Gidday fishfingersu, I agree wholeheartedly. I cant imagine it working out very well for Rescue Groups anywhere, but at this stage no one really knows anything about it, on our side of the fence anyway ???

The BIAQ does have a website and I see no mention of this proposal anywhere on the site.... if you mean do the VMR/Coastguard groups have websites promoting their waterside assist programs, many will. This is our page from VMR Victoria Point here http://www.vmr.org.au/watersideassist.html
I recomend that you look at your location, the closest Rescue Group to where you most often boat wether it be VMR/Coastguard/RCP etc and look at what they have to offer you. In the event of you living in a well supported area such as Morton Bay, ring both your nearest VMR and Coastguard and look at what services each group has to offer, what area and what recipricol rights you have plus of course the all important price and go with the one of them who offer you the best peace of mind.
All the best, Safe Boating
Cheers Lloyd

subzero
20-04-2005, 03:47 PM
Gidday Jug's, thanks for the kind words... I am still hovering around and still do the Radio courses for them, but thats pretty much it.

Totally agree, beuracratic nonsense screws the Boating public over by these attitudes. I dont want to get to deep in to the us and them attitude, but needless to say I have heard UNOFFICIALY that at the table the VMR heirarchy made every effort to resolve the differences but short of walking the plank, at this stage it was never going to work, I cant say if that is really true as I wasnt their and didnt hear it for myself...

change can happen quickly if the right buttons are pushed, even stubborn stick in the muds will change if they start to cop flack, I believe, in particular through this site and others like it, changes will be made as pressure builds.... now read between the lines :o ;) a person who is no longer a member of a group, who has contacts in numerous units including Coastguards may just be able to do something over time... he would be on his own so would have to tread warily so as not to get others in strife as he quietly tried to build that support... it is not just VMR who are dissapointed that the problems facing the Rescue Groups and Boaties are not being addressed properly... ;) ;D
Nuff said
Cheers Lloyd

bay_firey
20-04-2005, 04:11 PM
Lloyd
You may have hit thenail on the head there.
I (stupidly) made the coment that there shoud be 1 single "Volunteer Marine Rescue" organisation whilst on duty Staurday evening, well didn't that put a cat amongst the pidgeons. Now I wasn't sugesting the Organisation should be known by any particular name, but of course that is what a few of the more senior (read old) members heard and you would have thought I had suggested cutting off there right arm.
Reading between the lines of a few converstaions I have had with members of both groups, I get the distinct feeling that the name of the unified group was a very big sticking point with those that are not currently under VMR name.
My very own personal feeling.....
1 unified recue group
Name.... Volunter Marine Rescue.
Why.... Too much assosciation and confusion with Volunteer Coastguard and and a paid Military/Defence organisation of the same name that certain politicians are pushing

whichway
20-04-2005, 04:26 PM
There's been some really good comment here.

A couple of questions (Answers from their website based on my reading I don't have any connection with them) -

Is boatclub run by BIAQ, or is it a separate commercial organisation? Answer - Run by BIAQ

Is BIAQ a non-profit organisation? Yes

A few more questions -

So what is the BIAQ going to do with the surplus funds from Boat club??

What is the BIAQ position with regard to funding VMR/CG. Can they possibly justify taking funds away from those organisations??

To some extent, BIAQ are just filling a need in the market (ie coverage of emergency rescue tows throughout the state) that is not being provided by the current VMR/CG organisations.

Finally - I think there are 180,000 boats in queensland (but I could be wrong). Why not increase registration fees for boats by $10.00 and distribute the $1.8mil to VMR/CG. Surely the problem of how to distribute the funds fairly is much less of a problem than the current problem the branches have raising the money.

JMHO

Whichway

subzero
20-04-2005, 05:27 PM
Bay Firey, yep it's amazing how quickly SOME of the old timers can get their backs up over paroquilism... The name thing wasnt one of the issues that was a stumbling block to setting up a unified Waterside Assist program, it was more to do with how to divy up the loot, how and to which groups jobs were to be allocated and as to whom was prepared, (or not prepared) to hand over their membership lists... other things such as small units struggling for members who have no membership at all because they havent had the manpower to sell it to the boating public on the ramp, and those larger units with VERY LARGE memberships who have been doing it for years and are fairly affluent, (yes their are some units around like that) who did not want to loose hard earned funds to smaller groups who dont have the ability to get it up and running and would benefit financially who didnt get to play in the game... sadly, some units, even VMR units, forget that we are their for the boating public, not for ourselves to go boating and have some fun for free (although that of course does happen ;D ).
I believe these issues could be solved by the units and groups putting the public first, thats supposedly what we are their for...

Funnily enough Firey, not on the waterside assist issue, but the general issue, it has been thrashed over a name change many times... Our unit moved from AIR Sea Rescue Brisbane, YES BRISBANE, at the request of the heirarchy to get away from the appearance of being PAID FULLTIME workers as that was the perception of the boating fraternity, many changed their names at this time as it was felt that we were all experts who did it fulltime to get away from the high expectations placed on those who did the vollunteering by the public... in actual fact our unit had a member with his own push/pull Cessna 172 for Air Sea searches but whenever he was needed he was 500miles away at the races ;D but thats another story....
Anyway, now they are talking of dropping the Vollunteer to make us look more proffessional and to compete with the Coast Guard name as basicly, it's still what most people think are the only Org around and are the bees knees... so, my guess is we will eventually be ALL known as "MARINE RESCUE".... slowly but surely Coast Guard units are changing over to VMR, this is what State Gov want, 1 body to deal with and someone willing and able to do the job... one problem with long standing Names is tradition, tradition is good if it doesnt get in the way of doing the job and working as a team...

Whichway, yep the BIAQ is non profit, the problem is they deal with an EXTREMELY wide area of different concerns.... as a group (Rescue), we dont spend money or resourses on issues such as pollution, jettys, fish farming, trialling new boats, fishing lines etc... their money will be spread over a far LARGER area.... currently any monies raised through Rescue Groups go'es back to Rescue Groups to help pay to run 1 Service... the "Safety of Life at Sea"... rescuing people and sometimes injured Marine wildlife etc, offering assistance to the general boating public... I would have to say, MY AGENDA, would be to see that Rescue Groups get the support they deserve through any means they can, it wont come from the Gov, either State or Federal, and I am pretty sure it isnt going to come from the BIAQ either :'(
I agree, BIAQ are probably doing the right thing by their members, I also agree that they will be offering a service not currently available on a State wide or even Australia wide system..... I also think that any funds going to Rescue groups are LIKELY to be on a "Recovery" fee only, certain units will be picked over others and forced into cutting training to compete, and the service that you currently have will lessen as a result of countless other factors... I see time spent waiting for a tow being blown out as the cheaper units will be busy doing jobs and if its non life threatening you will be expected to wait in the queue untill they become free...

BIAQ can justify taking the funds away from VMR/Coast Guard... They will be offering a MUCH NEEDED service that is currently not being offered... they, as a non profit group, should not be placed in the possition of having to support another non profit group because State and Federal Gov's couldnt give a fat rats arse about the boating public... I actually see the BIAQ role in al this as being 2 fold... they should ATTACK US PUBLICLY for not doing things right by the boating public... they should secondly attack the Gov for not looking after the boating fraternity by looking after the Vollunteers.... :o

Cheers Lloyd

whichway
20-04-2005, 06:01 PM
Subzero - You should be the Minister for VMR [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

Things would finally start come good for all of us :)

Whichway

subzero
20-04-2005, 06:16 PM
;) ;D Who knows ???
I am very interested in the fishing party, what it has to offer boaters, not just fisherman... I live in Logan, dont think anyone stood over here in the last elections, all I know is, I believe in boating, and that the fascilitys in, around and on the water should be looked after and improved, not down graded... and so should the rights of those people that use it now, and more importantly, those that may not be able to use it in the future, I know a bit about VMR and Volunteers in general, I know the piss poor way the boating fraternity is treated by local councils, State Gov and the Federal boys.... I dont have shares in anything, I am not well off, I am honest and sometimes very cranky... trust me I am frequently far from tactfull, (Ask VP3 my boss at my paid employment)... I have a couple of dreams in particular, I just hope they dont stay dreams and they come to fruition, look out you polly Bast@3ds!!! I am just awaiting my Ceremony to become an Australian Citizen and then who knows what could happen ;)

See you on Saturday 9am
Cheers Lloyd

fishfingersu
20-04-2005, 09:16 PM
Lloyd,

Thanks, I can get to the VMR website fine (and the coastguard) but its that niggling little BIAQ boat club website I cant get to and that rummour about getting a free rescue for 50 bucks that is really getting under my scales, is every boater going to switch to join this boat club thing ? or are we still going to support the local units, If boaties have to pay the 50 to the Club, what happens to the rest.

whichway, made a good point, Rescue and training is a matter for goverment to take a role, they dont need to pay for all of it but at least they will cover all of Queensland like a rego on the car, 10 bucks on the boat rego would help, and we wouldnt need the BIAQ to take the cut, I wouldnt give them anyfin.

cheers for now,


Bruce

dazza
21-04-2005, 05:21 AM
bugger an extra $10.00 >:( >:(
get the pollies to spend the levy we already pay through boat rego on boating related activities, ie ramps, cleaning tables, pontoons, rescue organisations.
cheers
dazza

Kiktz
21-04-2005, 07:06 AM
Here Here For Lloyd!!!
[smiley=laola.gif]
Lloyd, I think you should run for the top job, I think you have a very level headed #and responsible approach. Its a pitty that us as boaties and fisherman don't get the support sometimes when out on the water and also that quite a few blokes I know aren't supporting any of the volunteer organisations to help them to help us.

Its all well and good to pay the extra that has been mentioned, and I for one would be more than happy to pay. But getting the volunteer groups to fall under the one banner I think is something that most of us would love to see happen.

I fish from the Gold Coast to the North Coast, the question is
"am I covered being a member of one organisation and not the other" I dont think so

only my thoughts.........

fishfingersu
21-04-2005, 10:09 AM
Kittz,

I think we all support the coastguard and the VMR, they are both good orgs the trouble is that the BIAQ will be cashing in so it will mean that there will be less funding for the VMR and coastguard, plus the BIAQ will be making money from it, NOT THE VMR OR COASTGUARD,

The Vollunteers will loose out in the end, what happens when the BIAQ has sucked all the members away form the VMR and Coastguard ?????? - and why join your local unit, when the BIAQ will be cheaper. am suspicious like Lloyd, I think there is something else going on here, does anyone know any firm info...sounds fishy to me

cheers


Bruce

MulletMan
21-04-2005, 11:52 AM
He gets my vote for the top job at VMR!!! ;D ;D :) :) :)

subzero
21-04-2005, 01:29 PM
Kiktz, thanks for the vote of confidence, my heads swelling [smiley=blush.gif]
Currently any assistance program you belong to, no matter which Organisation.... YOU WILL NOT BE COVERED by the other group or their units.... Some units from the different Groups who are based close together, do manage to work hand in hand with each other and have made "Gentlemans Agreements" between themselves to improve the benefits to their members and will offer recipricol rights to each others members...
Certainly no official agreement between the 2 Groups here in Qld anyhow. (Yet)

Aaahhh Ian (Commodore), ;D, sure, however I can see a great future for you in the political arena in your neck of the woods, time for change I reckon :o we have to sit down and have a talk sometime 8) ::)

vp3
21-04-2005, 02:47 PM
$10.00 I'd gladly pay it, it would certainly beat beging and shaking tins at the Straddie barges on Friday nights to put fuel in the boats.
Very well said Lloyd - the minister for every thing wet and salty.Cheers Ian

Spaniard_King
21-04-2005, 03:04 PM
Why $10 ??? ???

We (well most of us) pay $55 now to VMR. I got no propbs paying that to the rego mob as long as it ended up with the VMR units

Garry

bait-waster
04-06-2005, 12:30 PM
Hi!

Has anyone noticed that BOATCLUB is back on the biaq.com site.
http://www.biaq.com/content/standard.asp?name=Boatclub

It's a bit different from all the discussion to date as it addresses the issue of areas of coverage becasue it basically covers you Australia wide since it states that they will pay up to $200 towards rescue costs from any rescue authority.

Any thoughts on this??

Cheers.

MulletMan
04-06-2005, 02:46 PM
The "average" charge per hour recognized around the traps is $88.00 per hour but Units with bigger and more expensive rescue vessels can charge over $100 if they wish. So at say $100 per hour that is one hour out and one hour back.......any more and you will be asked to cough up the difference! BIAQ ain't done much homework on this one!
Ever tricky, the good old Government is (supposadly) sniffing about and thinking that with all these members we are now getting then why not can the whole subsidy scheme and save themselves some money!! Most Units get round about the old age pension for a widow per week as a nett income so probably wouldn't miss it anyway!

basserman
05-06-2005, 04:39 PM
well i'm not surer about you backward blokes from the north but down here i pay my $25 a year membership (i think it is too cheap so i pay $50) and for that i get what i need and thats a rescue if i ever need it and our groups down here have a gentlmans aggrement between a few of them (from south west rocks to harrington) where i can use my mebership number and my info is passed on to which ever unit i am useing on the day ;D

gif
05-06-2005, 06:25 PM
Is it correct that the VMR s have never got their act together and made a reciprocal coverage?

Sorry - but boat club is more than a breakdown service Much more. And if its the only way to get something like wider coverage then lets do it.

If only the VMRs could amalgamate ( or have reciprocal rights ) - then do a boat club type deal - then offer insurace and other services they would have no money worries at all. Sound unrealistic?

Look at the financial results of RACQ and NRMA insurance - hugely profitable.

And dont tell me something about evil insurance companies. dont go off topic.

Less Risky drivers join RACQ on average - so they get safer drivers and less claims - so they make more money - so membership based insurance is hugely profitable.

Much better than chook raffles.


It always seems insane how people want to protect their own territory rather than look to the big picture.

NQCairns
05-06-2005, 06:34 PM
Very interesting topic!
Might have already been said but I just had a read of the terms and conditions link at the biaq and the $200 dollars mentioned is a reimbursement so I guess early on in the design at least Biaq will not be seeking the cheapest rescue option, suspect it will change in the future as their member list grows. Anyway it is virtually tow insurance!!!! up to 200 dollars so no calling BIAQ just the normal run of the mill tow and VMR bill that gets reimbursed.
It is quite and enticing idea on the surface, I am sure the everyday boating public will jump at it.
Industry associations are almost universally the enemy of consumers/public, biaq would be no different than all the others, they wont get my money!
THE VOLUNTEER GROUPS REALLY NEED TO WATCH THEIR BACK.
ng

bait-waster
07-06-2005, 05:50 AM
I agree with Gary on this one.

Also in response to nqcairns - where in the Terms and Cond. did you read that BIAQ has any choice in who does the towing for it's Boat Club members? It just says that the people providing the rescue are to be authorised.

I quote:
"2. To apply for up to $200 reimbursement a copy of rescue authority invoice must be submitted to BIAQ office for payment."

Do we just bag something becasue it's new or shall we wait and see what happens in reality and condemn or appraise it based on facts??

Cheers,
bait-waster.

subzero
07-06-2005, 02:51 PM
Gidday Gary, the BIG PICTURE is, those that have the good sense to join an assistance program are those that are prepared, and LEAST LIKELY to require our services because they tend to maintain their vessels to a pretty high standard.
These funds consequently are far from CHOOK RAFFLE money as I would suspect maybe 2 out of every 10 members would actually recieve their free tow. (These are not official figures, just a guess). So consequently a figure of say 150 members would equate to $7,500-00 less the cost of recovery for 30 = $6,000-00 profit to spend on those that dont cough up and to train and maintain competancy. (Hope my maths is right).

Now as for protecting our little patch, OUR PROBLEM, is that we are required to maintain competancy, to acheive this we must go on the water, if we have no funds comming in through waterside assist we might as well close the doors now... I PERSONALLY BELIEVE IT IS THAT SERIOUS... I am not joking, members are sick and tired of fundraising... we have to train the new members to replace the older members as they get sick of fundraising and toss it in eventually... consequently you are forever having to train to replace and to maintain that competancy.. their are NO FUNDS for this allocated to us from anyone, just a mandatory requirement to do so... the benchmark and standards keep getting raised by the Gov but the funds dont...
If you can come up with a way for us to get funds from the Gov, Seatow. BIAQ, sponsors, whatever, please let us know how and we will be more than greatfull....

At the end of the day, go with whom you think will give you the best service for the best price, it's all about user pays nowdays and I guess many people would prefer to pay for the services they recieve but by a truely commercial operator. IN MY HUMBLE OPINION very soon they may be the only ones left to call on anyway. It will take one or two units to fold before anything will be done to patch it up and by then it may be very well to late.

All the best
Cheers Lloyd

longtail
07-06-2005, 03:13 PM
lloyd,
i have been reading your posts on this subject for a while now , #some of your comments above have got me a bit concerned though , do you really believe that vmr units are on the way out ? if so what can be done to stop this from happening? i for one (and i'm sure there are other boaties out there like me) do not want to have to rely on someone who is counting on me breaking down to make a living . i have been a member of vmr (no matter where i've been living) for over 15 years now and will continue to be one for as long as i am a boat owner .
cheers
jas

subzero
07-06-2005, 04:11 PM
Gidday Jas, I really do PERSONALLY believe what I am prattling on about.
I may be wrong about bases closing, but this will depend on a change in the level of support from those that should be providing the $$ and that is the Government. They tend to do it in the main for SES, CFA, Surf Lifesavers, Honorary Ambo's and the like AS THEY SHOULD.... but very little comes VMR/Coastguards way. Just like carparks, ramps and fascilities for boaters in general, the prioritys are very low for anything to do with the waterways and their users which includes us.

No one will EVER be left in the lurch, someone will have to take up any gaps left through the closure of any bases IF IT HAPPENS. I know of 3 bases personally that are struggling to make ends meet, either through lack of funds or lack of members, and frequently one is caused or exasperated by the other.

At the end of the day, the requirements to train to a higher level do demand a greater level of commitment from the members time wise, unfortunately without extra funds forthcoming it also means extra fundraising to meet the demands of that extra training.
I wasnt able or prepared to give up any more of my time and my own money to do so with the added time spent scrounging for more money to meet those extra demands. It's a catch 22 situation and myself and some others I know just dont want to give any more than we give up now.

Thankfully NOT ALL UNITS suffer these problems, some have managed to get sponsors, others have the support of some major clubs etc. Some also have very large associate memberships bringing in valuable funds.

I am 100% behind VMR's and Coastguards and their respective administrations. They do the best they can with what they have.
I am well aware that I have upset a great many people including some heirarchy in both groups with my views on the matter of the Waterside Assist proposal that I put together... it is my belief that without the incomes recieved through such schemes some units will find it very hard to survive... These are MY OPINIONS, I think I am right, hopefully I am wrong.... only time will tell...
What do the units/groups need, plain and simply realistic funding, then we would not have to compete with those Commercial Operators that are trying to earn a living being a "Towie" or selling their own assistance program.
Cheers Lloyd

NQCairns
07-06-2005, 06:20 PM
Hi Baitwaister, Who?... Me? I didn't say that ??? nq

fishfingersu
14-06-2005, 04:11 PM
Hi Guys,

It sounds like the BIAQ Boatclub is just a money making machine to get them more members all they are doing is trying to profit out of the VMR and the Coastguard, Yes that is all this is about MONEY.........if I was active in the VMR or Coastguard giving up my time and energy to try to save lives, I would be very angry knowing that the BIAQ are earning MONEY from my service and spinning a profit.

Thats the Bottom line, I would recomend every one who has served with the Units to phone up the BIAQ and tell then to stick their boat club and keep doing boat shows.

A very angry


Bruce

Nugget
18-06-2005, 07:45 AM
I'm not going to buy into the argument for or against but some background info might help make the situation a little clearer.

The idea of Boatclub was born from the desire to inform people about changes to regulations - I think it was initially as a result of the confusion about the new marine toilet legislation.
In South Australia there is a similar club that costs about $25 per year and does only that - a newsletter to keep boaties up to date on regulations, new facilities and other boating related matters.
I believe the BIAQ started with the same idea but then decided to add more benefits - discounted boat insurance, chandlery discounts and the contention one - a 'breakdown' rebate.

The initial discussion with VMR and Coast Guard was a 50% split of money raised by the then proposed BIAQ club - in other words they were going to hand over $25 for every member.
Negotiation did not go as planned - the 50% did not eventuate so we have what is now Boatclub.
It is my understanding that they are not offering a breakdown service - they are only offering to pay the first $200 of your VMR breakdown bill.
Whether that will deter people from joining VMR is the big question.
Currently, a non VMR or Coast Guard boatie that requires assistance is sent a bill - what percentage of these are paid?
Boatclub will pay for its members.

It is also my understanding that every 12 months, if the amount paid to VMR for breakdown service of Boatclub members is not equivalent to their initial plan of 50% of membership fees - they will then donate direct to VMR cash to make it up to 50%.

I am a GoldCard member of VMR and will remain one - but I am also joining Boatclub.
It is worth $50 a year for the emailed newsletter to keep me up to date with regulations etc.

It is a shame that there is not a national rescue service for boaties - RACQ of the water.
Like RACQ / NRMA etc - it would be a very profitable venture.


Dave ><>

fishfingersu
18-06-2005, 09:16 PM
Hi Dave

Good input, but why is the BIAQ and the Coastguard trying to go into business with each other ???? The coastguard is a vollunteer organisation and the BIAQ do Boat shows and is a marine industry association. If the BIAQ wanted to help the coastguard they would make a donation like anyone else does, for the BIAQ to offer a membership for $50 and then agree to pay you $200 for a breakdown tow is financial suicide. How about: buy me one beer and I will give you four !!!!

It all dosnt make sense to me, Insurance companies dont even play those odds so how long will it take for the BIAQ to become bankrupt.

Fishing this weekend


Bruce

boatboy50
19-06-2005, 02:12 PM
Hi Nugget,

If that is the initial reason for starting boatclub, i am still not getting it.

I don't see why I would be expected to pay $25 or $50 to be updated on new legislation which comes online. Why would I need to pay to hear about laws I am expected to abide by? Isn't that what they are supposed to be advertising and producing brochures for us all to have an understanding?

The laws are changed so frequently these days, it is very hard to keep up to date with it all, because I don't see the laws advertised or sent out with rego. Why should I pay for the priveledge?

Regards

Darren

Nugget
20-06-2005, 08:45 AM
The laws are changed so frequently these days, it is very hard to keep up to date with it all,

Exactly - Belive it or not, the responsibility is on you to know the laws.
I wasn't told / I didn't know wont wash with inspectors.

Other info is also of interest to me - new marinas, new manufacturers etc - It's your choice.

Dave ><>

john_laura
20-06-2005, 12:07 PM
Gday all, this is my first post on the chat boards but i have been reading them for a while know. This particular topic intrests me alot as I have just purchased my first boat and was look at joining a vmr/coast guard. The boat club, although it sounds like a great idea will no doubt take heaps of money away from the volunter orgs.

After searching the net i found the Victoria point VMR's web site with the waterside assist. I then contacted them and inquiered about the areas of coverage within the bay area. It was stated that they have reciprical agreements with clubs from bribe to Southport.

In my veiw this will be the best money that I can Spend as the money will be going to the people who need it, those on the water doing the hard yards.

John.

Nugget
21-06-2005, 02:40 PM
Welcome to the board John - yes it's hard to go past the membership offered by VMR - especially since the introduction of the reciprical arrangement giving a much greater coverage area.
I am and will stay a member - they do a great job.
Boatclub is not a replacement and the member rescue subsidy shouldn't be a reason to sign up to Boatclub.
Dave ><>