Humane endings for fish

[jugs]

If you want to share humane methods to put your catch to sleep, or can enlighten us as to why it doesnt matter about just throwing them into a bucket, we may all learn something.

[agnes_jack]

Mackeral donger does the trick nicely ;)

Regards, Tony ;)

[webby]

If there legal and going to be kept, killed strait away and into a slurry.
regards

[Maria]

Donger on the head, lop the head off or straight into a slurry. All those methods work quickly and humanely.

[Elysium]

Catch and Release only for me! But if I was chasing a feed I would kill it straight away and put in a ice slurry. If you leave the fish alive it will naturally stress and increase the lactic acid output therefor deteriorating the condition of the flesh.

[Big_unit]

I use a Ikajimi (Brain spike.) causes instant death ( well thats what it says on the packet). Seems to work well. Plain old cutting their throats works fine too.

Cheers
James

[Fishinmishin]

There was no option to vote for 'Kill it slowly after torturing it and feeding it it's own eyes' ;) ;D.

[Big_unit]

Fishinmissin,
# # # Is that the "Ikajayi", they wouldnt let me buy one of those so I had to get the Ikajimi.

Cheers
James

[saphire]

How do the ikajayi things work?
Sounds interesting.
saphire [smiley=balloon3.gif]

[Derek Bullock]

At the time of writing the poll shows 23 people saying they humanely kill their fish. #What is humane?


Derek

[Big_Kev]

There was no option to vote for 'Kill it slowly after torturing it and feeding it it's own eyes' ;) ;D.

You are one sik puppy LOL.
We know you are only joking, keep up the good work.

[DaveSue_Fishos_Two]

With regard to taking a fish's life I would consider 'humane' to be: kill quickly without prolonged suffering. ::) I usually cut the throat. It is quick and bleeds them nicely. What do you consider to be humane Derek? Perhaps there is more than one interpretation of the meaning of the word?

Dave

[Derek Bullock]

To be quite blunt, running a steel hook into a fishes mouth or gullet and dragging it to a beach or boat and then taking a knife and cutting it's throat is, in my opinion, nothing different than what the Japanese were doing to the dolphins in that video in the other post on Dolphin Slaughter.

No wonder PETA have so much success at having things banned.


Derek

[PinHead]

ahhh..but Derek..how do PETA kill the animals they do humanely?

[Big_unit]

How do the ikajayi things work?
Sounds interesting.
saphire [smiley=balloon3.gif]

Saphire,
# # # # # #Ask Jay aka Fishinmissin about it ? apparently its some sick way of torturing fish by forcing them to eat their own eyes. On the other hand an Ikajimi is a pointed metal spike with a handle that you simply thrust with murderous force straight into the nice little fishes skull causing instant death. Hope this helps.

Cheers
James

[-spiro-]

Let's get real here......... Most of us want our catch to be fresh.
So thing's like brain spikeing and bleeding are for our benefit not the fish. Been at the top of the food chain, i don't think about what the animal/fish was thinking about when it was dyeing. All i hope for is a good feed.
Sorry jugs but that is my op

[Angla]

The Cobia I caught the other week had me walking up and over my boat, passing the rod under the anchor rope (he could have cut my anchor rope) and tried to pull me in to the water several times. I think some green people should ask the fish to be more polite when being invited for a visit on someones boat. After all was he not stealing the meal from the hook. Who's to say it was he I was after.

Top of the food chain is natural for me. A good bleeding and onto ice

Angla

[jugs]

To be quite blunt, running a steel hook into a fishes mouth or gullet and dragging it to a beach or boat and then taking a knife and cutting it's throat is, in my opinion, nothing different than what the Japanese were doing to the dolphins in that video in the other post on Dolphin Slaughter.

No wonder PETA have so much success at having things banned.

Derek

SO Derek, does that mean you dont fish??

[DICER]

skin, fillet, chew, swallow - :D

really, though who is going to kill and bleed their fish in the surf.

put them in your bag to kill them later.

mud crabs can be stored alive and that is a recommended method!

[agnes_jack]

I'm with Derek on this.
I don't beleive there is a humane way to catch or kill fish.
But as others have said , we are at the top of the food chain.
If ya don't want to hurt them.....Leave em alone ;) ;)

Personally I luv to eat em!

Regards, Tony

[Jeremy]

To be quite blunt, running a steel hook into a fishes mouth or gullet and dragging it to a beach or boat and then taking a knife and cutting it's throat is, in my opinion, nothing different than what the Japanese were doing to the dolphins in that video in the other post on Dolphin Slaughter.

No wonder PETA have so much success at having things banned.


Derek

??? Derek, from what you have written here, you are clearly against any form of fishing with line and hook. Hello earth, this is a fishing site! What are you doing here as a moderator ??? You are contributing towards (as a moderator)something you don't believe in (fishing).

Please correct me if I am wrong.

And Derek, there is a world of difference between killing fish and killing marine mammals. Fish are far more primitive creatures then mammals. Mammals are much more intelligent and also much cuter!

BTW, humane killing is killing it as quickly and with the least suffering possilbe. Brain spike or cut the throat and into the ice slurry is as quick and humane as is possible.

Jeremy

[Dug]

Knife, club or ice slurry for me.

It is a lot more humane than anything that goes on in their world.

Torn apart by a bigger predator or swallowed alive is the usual end to a fishes life.

I think the question of a humane death is more important for us than for the fish.

[pukunui]

There is a big difference between fish and dolphins the major one being the size of the brain as jeremy said,
Is a live bait humane? is a jewy smashing a slimy mack humane?
the point is what is humane for an intelligent animal/human is alot different from a fish which only knows a few things food, shelter, breed, don't get eaten.
finding nemo wasn't a true story.
i to think the whole humane fish killing thing is to make us feel a bit better.
Knife or donger for me.

p.s. what do you guys think about keeper nets/ live wells and fish stress as someone mentioned do you keep fish in these if your gonna eat em or just if you may 'upgrade' your catch?
cheers

[wiseguy67]

interesting. I did a lot of game hunting in canada where i lived for many years. I met a elder native Indian and did some hunting with him, he told/taught me how to give thanks to the animal, as soon as one can using your knife bleed the deer, moose, bear etc, while bleeding the animal one looks into it eyes and asks for fargiveness and then give thanks for keeping the foodchain going.
I had bagged deer and moose prior to this and when i did as he said to the next one i felt, well, at peace to a certain degree.
He was very adamant about the importance in the ritual and siad it was to be applied to all living things fish, big or small game, humans alike. It was something his elders passed onto him as a child....
He also taught me other things such as who gets to eat the heart and so on.
Theres my two bits.

[ssbayguide]

I agree with wiseguy.

I am a marine biologist but also love to fish. I'm convinced that fish process pain, perhaps differently to us, but I think if you do what you do with a clear conscience, that's the best you can do.

My preferred way of dealing with a fish I am going to eat is to cut its throat. With toothy pelagics, I hit them on the head first.

Peter

[Jeremy]

interesting. I did a lot of game hunting in canada where i lived for many years. I met a elder native Indian and did some hunting with him, he told/taught me how to give thanks to the animal, as soon as one can using your knife bleed the deer, moose, bear etc, while bleeding the animal one looks into it eyes and asks for fargiveness and then give thanks for keeping the foodchain going.
I had bagged deer and moose prior to this and when i did as he said to the next one i felt, well, at peace to a certain degree.
He was very adamant about the importance in the ritual and siad it was to be applied to all living things fish, big or small game, humans alike. It was something his elders passed onto him as a child....
He also taught me other things such as who gets to eat the heart and so on.
Theres my two bits.

good philosophy. Thanks for passing that on.

Jeremy

[DaveSue_Fishos_Two]

Sometimes I don't know where you're at Derek. [smiley=snore.gif] How can you possibly compare the killing of fish to the slaughtering of dolphins? Even Christ killed and ate fish. Would it be reasonable to assume you are vegetarian? Strange opinions indeed from the Moderator of a fishing club ???



Dave

[Billo]

well guys , Derek is right ...the methods are almost identical !

BUT .....a fish and a mammal is the difference....totally different ball park .
You cannot comparte 'humane ' methods across two totally different forms of life .

In saying that , i am sure fish do have some realisation of pain ...or atleast a sense of danger . Humane to me is as quick as possible without excessive force .
A knife through the throat of a fish or spike then into a slurry will see total cease of life within 10 - 20 seconds ?
….a dolphin with the same methods would be 10 - 20 minutes ???? …..if you could dispatch a dolphin in 10 seconds, I would concider that humane .
Bullet to the head ? Humane , yes ….would you use the same method on fish ? .,....love to see that !!

[Derek Bullock]

My being a moderator has nothing to do with this debate. Lets make that quire clear and its a foolish person to pursue it.

I have hunted and killed with a rifle and a knife and have eaten what I have killed - kangaroo, wallaby, rabbit, wid pig, wild duck and pigeon to name some.

I go fishing and sometimes, not always, catch and eat fish and my way of killing a fish is by cutting it's throat.

The discusssion is simply what people consider as being humane. If we did what some of us do to fish to cats or dogs we would be charged with cruelty and either go to jail or cop a pretty hefty fine.

I am not sure my way of hunting down a wild pig with a dog and then cutting it's throat or pulling a tailor onto the beach and cutting it's throat would be considered by some as humane. I still do it though even if I do doubt at times that it is humane. In that I guess I am no different to many others.

This discussion is about what is humane because a living thing is a living thing.

Interesting discussion so far.


Derek

[saphire]

Fish dont eat their own eyes [smiley=scholar.gif]
Thats Itchy and Scratchy stuff [smiley=dunce.gif]
They are fascinating wonderful creatures that tast nice.
I am so glad they were invented.
Cheers,
saphire [smiley=balloon3.gif]

[DICER]

fish must have invented themselves, especially to be caught on a hook and line... ;D

but how do you humanely kill a squid though? or a mollusc? Though I'm certain a marlin or tuna has a few neurons, but for your everyday guppy, I personally believe you can not think too much about what they're thinking especially when they will be eaten very soon.

[Volvo]

I wont come into this me dont thinks :o :-X..I have a hefty bounty on me head by Fish , Pigs,Wabbits, goats, fox n Gawd knows what else ???..
Killing is Killing and how do you find a humane way of doin that lol..
Okay Okay!! have put my foot into it so i'll go fer Spike n Slurry ::) ::)..
PS Fish Do feel pain or fear i'm sure ???..

[agnes_jack]

I think that in all reality, all fishermen are hunters, hunters kill and eat animals.
If you have a problem with that, don,t fish. If you are happy to be a hunter, the most humane thing you can do is to despatch your prey with the MINIMAL amount of suffering for the animal.
I don't believe anyone can justify it and come out looking like a saint.
Personaly I am quite happy to be a part of the food chain, never know... I may fall overboard and be eaten by a shark, and become another part of the food chain.

Regards, Tony

[S.S.]

Let's just hope the shark eats you humanely Tony ;D

[basserman]

spike is just that a spike that you puncher the head with and scramble the brains so it dies right there and then
for me it depend on the fish and my mood
most of my fish are released
all the good table fish or fish destened to become sushimi for my self gets the spike and gilled and gutted while the blood is still pumping
ans as for most other fish either kept alive in a livewell untill the cleaning table or straght inot the ice slurry ;)

[Dug]

Thats Itchy and Scratchy
They are fascinating wonderful creatures that tast nice.

Ichy and scratchy taste nice? Ewww and how would you kill them humanly?

[Bearded_Clam]

some of you sound like you should be giving them a ciggy and a blindfold.. ;D get over it.. :o hippies ;)

[DaveSue_Fishos_Two]

My being a moderator has nothing to do with this debate. #Lets make that quire clear and its a foolish person to pursue it.

I have hunted and killed with a rifle and a knife and have eaten what I have killed - kangaroo, wallaby, rabbit, wid pig, wild duck and pigeon to name some. #

I go fishing and sometimes, not always, catch and eat fish and my way of killing a fish is by cutting it's throat.

The discusssion is simply what people consider as being humane. #If we did what some of us do to fish to cats or dogs we would be charged with cruelty and either go to jail or cop a pretty hefty fine.

I am not sure my way of hunting down a wild pig with a dog and then cutting it's throat or pulling a tailor onto the beach and cutting it's throat would be considered by some as humane. I still do it though even if I do doubt at times that it is humane. #In that I guess I am no different to many others.

This discussion is about what is humane because a living thing is a living thing.

Interesting discussion so far.


Derek

I feel that you are trying to intimidate some of us by your second sentence in this quotation Derek. Once again, by your own comparisons to pigs, cats and dogs, you are levelling cold blooded fish with warm blooded mammals. ??? In my opinion, you put your own foot in your own mouth when you challenged all of us earlier about steel hooks and dragging fish to boats or banks. And the fact that you have stated that you still do it does not make for any guesswork about whether you are the same as many others. You are. End of story. :)

Dave

[snappa]

leave 'em on the floor until half dead and then throw 'em in the esky with ice and thats only if u remembered to buy ice .. ;D

allowing them to half die.. so when u pick them up they dont spike ya....
the best method i've come up with.... ::) they dont say anything... :D

[Bearded_Clam]

what ice ???

[szopen]

On this one I am with Derek,

I hunt big mammals (boar, deer) when I go home on holidays, my family has been doing this for generations.

People, wake up!!!

We do not fish to be considered the "Mr./Ms. nice" this is in our blood, we can not help this (we do not want actually), this is how we live.

We kill, we eat them.

We should kill as fast as possible in a way that does not let them suffer too much.

No difference between fish and mammals. All are alive and all of them die.

Then we eat them.

[jugs]

I have heard this before and it was reinforced on ABC radio yesterday by a marine biologist. Fish do not have the same type of pain receptors as we do. This is obvious in the fact that when they get a hook in their mouth they run (swim) away. If it really hurt, wouldnt they swim towards you to minimise the pain and then cry when they get onboard???
If one of us humans got a hook through our mouth- would we behave like a fish ??? I doubt it. Proves the difference.
Crabs definitely have different pain receptors, this has been proven. So now I dont feel at all guilty eating them. Come to think of it, I dont feel at all guilty eating a fish either???
The point of this thread is finding out what u all do with your catch once you have decided to keep it. I have learnt alot from your comments and have decided to go buy one of those spike thingys. I have grown up cutting throats or icing fish, but the throat cutting thing is messy and not a viable choice when out on the boat with one esky for the catch and the water bottle!
I am pretty new to this whole boat fishing concept, having grown up fishing the surf. I never really thought about humane ending for fish until catching some of the really pretty reef fish, and seeing so many pics of those BEAUTYFUL lumpy headed creatures with blubbery lips and whites in their eyes! I just want to prepare myself for catching one of them!!! They look like they need to be treated with a great deal of respect ;D ;D
When are we going to out to get amongst some of them Snappa????

[ssbayguide]

African bushmen also apologise to an animal they have killed for food.

As for squids and molluscs, squids have very well developed nervous systems, so I guess there is no ideal way for despatching them without suffering - put them on ice I say, they go to sleep.

As for the argument that if fish felt pain they would run towards the pain to reduce it, that is applying a human logic - anthropomorphism. I'm also a mrine biologist and believe that the fcat that fish fight so hard means they process pain - we just haven't worked out exactly how as yet.

As for those who want to ban fishing - ban farming as well. Become a coward and only eat those things that can't run away - plants!

Peter

[basserman]

but wait peter what if plant can feel pain :-X

[blaze]

They can, they can was only talking to one of my tomato plants the other day.
man oh man I need to go for a fish me thinks
cheers
blaze

[snappa]

jugs
i sent u an email but u did not respond ...
sat. was a great day out with no fish.. :-[

[damons33]

humane ending?
that must mean that the human being that takes another beings life cares for that creature!
#everything has an ending sooner or later and humanity has nothing to do with that its in the "dna"- remember this jugs!
#"mother nature might of brought you into this world, but oneday father time will show you the door!"

#never mind the bizzare ideological/religious beliefs of eastern #janists or zen buddists.
# the lamentation(sadness) ends as i eat that fishes flesh(meat) and i feel good that i have eaten something that i can confirm its "origins"(not state of origins!), it brings to me a "realitivity" of that creatures existance and needs on a first hand level, which is greater then anything that can be imagined- if they dissappeared i would be a loss' not some yuppy arts degree queer that needs to grandstand in an effort of self justification-seeings they are at a loss as to societies need for them!
;)
#confucsion damo'

[terminaltackle]

This was real interesting stuff to read through, and as to the many ways we try to justify our actions. I bet Jugs was stoked with the response to her question.
As for my twist on this little discussion, take up spear fishing. You select your prey and kill it near immediatly if you go for a head shot. you also put yourself in thier enviroment and have to deal with the larger predators of thier world. Now since I dont spear fish I am pretty comfortable with bringing fish to the boat and into the ice slurry :D

[DICER]

spearing is not always instant - miss and you might slice the guts open, depending on the fish type. It's happened to me a few times. I sure the cleaners would have a nice meal though. I'm still thinking hook and line could be quicker.

Then again I've seen someone drop a >1 metre long flatty down the rocks after winching it up. After a several minutes, it came out looking sick and swimming on the surface. What a waste for the fish!