PDA

View Full Version : Bleeding fish



chanquetas
09-07-2005, 04:30 PM
I've read/heard that its best to kill your fish quickly and bleed ALL fish, regardless of species, and then place them in an ice slurry. However, most of the photos that I see posted show that the fish have been left to die in the esky rather than brought to a quick death, and often no attempt seems to have been made to bleed the fish. Im keen to hear opinions on this though, does it make any difference to the quality of the fish on the table?
Also, if its best to kill them quick then whats the best way? I usually insert a knife blade through the head just behind the eye, which they dont like very much so I guess Im doing something right...
Of course the problem with this technique is that it ruins your photo unless you get it straight away, but for me the photo is not as important as being there.

basserman
09-07-2005, 04:39 PM
it depends on what fish for me
like the bread and butter fish i will just spike and toss in the slurry if i'am keeping them however for fish like kingfish or tuna i will first spike the brain and straght away gill and gut them before putting them on the ice ;)

Daintreeboy
09-07-2005, 04:48 PM
You'll find the photos you refer to are of fish that have been bled, slurried and then put in the esky with the blood washed off. I always cut my fish straight away but never bother with a slurry. Just a coupla minutes in a bucket or kill pen before a quick wash and into the esky.
Cheers, Mark.

chanquetas
09-07-2005, 04:58 PM
So Mark, I presume then that you kill the fish by cutting their abdomen and ripping their guts out? Is this efficient?

DaveSue_Fishos_Two
09-07-2005, 04:59 PM
Some years ago fish that we could buy from retail outlets were gutted, gilled and bled. Nowadays, that is not necessarily the case and most outlets sell fish whole, gills intact, and unbled. In my opinion they should be bled upon capture (if you're going to eat them) and then placed in some sort of chiller ie: esky with ice or ice slurry.
As far as I know, all animals that are to used for human consumption are bled immediately following the kill and I personally feel that fish should be treated the same. I have fished this way for more than 30 years and, touch wood, have never been ill from eating my catch. I cut their throats, which kills them quickly and bleeds them at the same time. Done in a large bucket or drum, the mess can be tipped over the side, fish washed and onto the ice.

Just my thoughts anyway

Dave

Cheech
09-07-2005, 05:02 PM
I am a long way from being convinced that the spike in the brain is the go.

Let's face it. They have a tiny brain, and when you do the spike thing you are probably only guessing where the brain may happen to be. I would not have a clue where it exactly is. If they don't like it, I think that means they just got a spike in the head, not the brain, and are still alive and in pain. No wonder they are not happy. They will die as you would expect from a spike to the head.

Probably better off to just accept that you will not kill them instantly every time so just bleed them by cutting at the gills and let them bleed to death. They will die quicker than just throwing in the esky so is more humane than a spike and thinking, geeze my head hurts, or a slow death just sitting on a lump of ice.

There are my thoughts for a Friday night.

Cheech

Daintreeboy
09-07-2005, 05:05 PM
So Mark, I presume then that you kill the fish by cutting their abdomen and ripping their guts out? Is this efficient?

No I do it similar to what Dave has just said, cutting the throat. Some people just simply spike the throat and others one gill but I slice through completely and often cut the heart in half. I have gone away from gutting and gilling unless I am planning on baking the fish or it is staying in the esky for longer than the days fishing. Getting them cold quickly will not mean the guts will sour the fish before filleting and some argue leaving it intact can actually help. I just don't bother as it makes no difference and is a pain really.
Cheers, Mark.

basserman
09-07-2005, 05:17 PM
cheech one you have learnt how and where to spike it is easy and very good
one of the biggest ways to tell if you have done it right is that once you get the spike in and move a fraction side to side the fish will twich and that will be the last of the movement
one reson for the spike is that often you don't get riggamortas
as for gilling and gutting i only do this to the bigger fish that will get cut into steaks or for fish that will be eaten raw

DaveSue_Fishos_Two
09-07-2005, 05:18 PM
I'm with you Mark and I slice through until the head is almost severed. I leave the head on and the guts in until I get home, or the next day, and I keep these for crab bait.
Another reason I am in the habit of killing upon capture if I am going to keep the fish: I like to fish quietly, especially if in the estuaries, creeks and rivers. A live fish or three kicking around in an esky can make a lot of noise, especially at night, and I am one of those that believe noise in shallow water should be kept to a minimum.

Cheers
Dave

chanquetas
09-07-2005, 05:18 PM
All very interesting.
Actually, I have also been leading towards the cut throat method, as Reel Nauti describes.
Cheech makes a good point too about the knife/spike in head issue, as I cant always say that I get the brain first go.
I just cant stand to see fish sitting on the deck bouncing around, I reckon you have to dispatch them ASAP.
I dont like to leave their guts in though, got to get them out.

SeaSaw
09-07-2005, 05:24 PM
I don't like to kill the fish before bleeding them. I believe that if you cut behind the gills while they are still alive, they bleed much better, and are therefor better eating. This is because the heart is still pumping the blood out.

Gee I hope the Green brigade are not reading this :-X It is humane .... honestly ;D

Mark

Cheech
09-07-2005, 05:55 PM
I realised I probably did not answer the initial question directed to if the quality is effected. We have been focussing on how we do it.

I have been able to do a comparison. Recently I went fishing off shore and no fish were bled. Previous to that most trips the fish were bled. I can say that the recent non bled fish did not taste anywhere as good as the normal bled fish. Kind of more like fish you woud get at a fish shop.

I usually do not bother with estuary/bay fish, but when collecting an esky full of reef fish, bleeding is the go.

chanquetas
09-07-2005, 06:05 PM
Hhhmmmm....I am continuing to gather data.
I catch a lot of Red Emperor (not in Moreton Bay though), and always bleed these fish as well as gut them and stab them to death with a quick slash to the brainal region (all greenies look the other way). They seem to taste "cleaner" than if they were not bled/gutted thats for sure.
Even if you leave the guts in over night the flesh tastes "stronger", which basically means the guts are flavouring the meat.

Heath
10-07-2005, 09:50 AM
Almost all of our photos are taken a few moments after the fish is landed. They come up 100% better than a photo of a fish with already left this world. Freshly caught fish have good colour & posture, also usually the fins are erect. Only takes a few moments and pays off in the end. If you have phsyco fish such as mahi mahi, mackerel, wahoo etc. A tap on the head calms them down, then a few snaps taken & then they are bled in a bucket & left in there for several minutes before being put on ice. Once at the ramp, they are scaled, gilled & gutted & out back on ice until we get home. We cut the fishes throat. Down through the throat latch until you hit the back bone. This severs the artery near the heart. On big fish you can actually hear the bloody being expelled by the still pumping heart. Has a sort of squirt noise.

Willo
10-07-2005, 11:07 AM
Really good artical in the last issue of Salt Water Fishing (issue 39 Winter) On Killing, Bleeding and keeping your catch Cold

whitey73
10-07-2005, 11:42 AM
Bleeding all types of fish is a good idea.

kc
10-07-2005, 07:21 PM
I work in the food game...specifically fish & have to add, if I had not witnessed the difference brain spiking makes...first hand...I would not have believed it.

Just as an example, if you catch, bleed and ice a fish, fillet it down same day, and place the fillet on a plate, cover with cling wrap and refigerate it is "good" for about 5 days....the same fish brain spiked then bled,iced filleted etc is still perfect 14 days later.......sounds far fetched hey!! Like I said, if I had not seen it with my own eyes, I would not believe it.

I have had the science explained but at the end of the day, try it yourself....you will be gobsmacked by the improvement in eating quality of brain spiked and bled....just as much an improvement over bled and not bled.

These critters are worth looking after if you plan to eat them...takes a couple of extra minutes but worth every second it takes to treat them right.

KC

Burley_Boy
11-07-2005, 11:04 AM
KC, wouldn't the brain spike cause the bleeding to be less effective as I assume brain spiking would have to immediately stop the heart?

So whats the best way of finding the brain?

curly
11-07-2005, 06:15 PM
hi,you can by from the local tackle shops a spike to spike the fish in the brain; by doing this the fish will bleed internaly,try this and you will find no blood whatsoever in the flesh when its filleted,if you are not sure about this next time you go fishing try both ways and see for yourselves always put your fish into a ice slurry and they will keep perfect and tasty,when spiking a little practice helps to find where the brain is behind the eye cheers curly wa

kc
12-07-2005, 03:49 AM
Brian spiking does not immediatly stop the heat beating so a normal blled will still occur when you cut the throat (this is all sounding a bit brutal hey!)

What it does do is stop the release (by the brian and nervous sytem) of endorphines and enzimes which ultimately have a major effect on flesh quality and longevity

KC

blue_rogue
12-07-2005, 04:26 AM
Thanks for that men.... I have never spike a fish but by the sounds of it and the eating quailty, I will be doing it from now on.

sboyes
12-07-2005, 09:05 AM
bleed them all just tobe safe

basserman
12-07-2005, 09:35 AM
Brian spiking does not immediatly stop the heat beating so a normal blled will still occur when you cut the throat (this is all sounding a bit brutal hey!)

What it does do is stop the release (by the brian and nervous sytem) of endorphines and enzimes which ultimately have a major effect on flesh quality and longevity

KC
ditto to kc here
we have had some tunas and kingiys and other big fish like this that after we spike and then gill and gut (bleeding in the process) that when you pull/cut the heart out it is still beating ;)

devocean
12-07-2005, 02:01 PM
Ikijima (brain spiking) is a true and tested method used and highly regarded by the japanese and plenty of spearos around the world. If you havnt tried it you will be pleased with the results.
As for bleeding them I have a mate who bleeds his mackeral at the tail as well as the throat and I reckon this definetly improved eating quality.

Burley_Boy
12-07-2005, 04:23 PM
With bleeding can I assume that we are talking cutting the throat from underneath the fish until you cut through the backbone?
Is gilling also required at the same time ???

ratsack
13-07-2005, 08:52 AM
I did a charter with Ed Falconer from Rainbow beach and his method is to spike them and then straight onto the ice. Theory is once you open them up it allows the bacteria in and the fish will not last as long.On ice gilled and gutted 4 days spiked and not cut 6 days. He is also a pro fisher and that is the way the markets demand their fish, whole. If one kills,gills &guts and then put into a slurry isnt all of the flesh going to get contaminated by the slime etc?

tideline_two
13-07-2005, 09:10 AM
over here (south east ,usa) i've never seen recreational caught fish bled or gutted while out fishing. with the exception of yellowfin tuna that is. king mackrel (just like yall's spanish mackrel) are gaffed and thrown in the cooler on ice . i've pier fished where people usually don't have a large cooler. kings caught there are gaffed and cleaned almost imediately. i've tried fish both ways. i can't tell a difference.

markpeta
13-07-2005, 01:36 PM
Don't reackon it could hurt more of the blood away from the flesh the better something to think about.

Mark

DaveSue_Fishos_Two
13-07-2005, 04:01 PM
I remember not soooooo many years ago when we were told not only to gut them, but to make sure the arteries running along the spine inside the gut area were also scraped clean. I still do it. I guess things change as our knowledge expands.

Dave

wiseguy67
13-07-2005, 05:20 PM
Worked on a longliner out of port lincoln targeting tuna for the japanese market; the proceedure for tuna that were being sold for sashimi way back in 1987 @ $57 kilo for Northern bluefin was: handle with care, cut each lateral line/bloodline just 1/2 inch deep then put the tip of your blade into the heart, now you've got blood pumping everywhere it is at this point the Ikijima/brainspike is applied and into the swim tank for ten minutes then you gill gut and wire brush the vertbrae and into the snap freezer -50C. I was not allowed to touch a knife until i had proven myself, I was on the boat for three months started cutting in the second month.
Personaly i carry a 5" blade while surf fishing, as soon as i have the tailor, bream etc i go in behind the gills and insert the blade into the vertebrae apply a slight twist which open/breaks the vertebrae. Tailor taste much better if bled asap. As do all salt and fresh water fish. Ice asap is also best for lasting quality. Presently as I don't have boat but do have a kayak i do not bleed on board for my own well being LOL
Here is a pic of a nice one off the wall a couple months ago.