Maybe catch and release should end

[blaze]

Ok, I know a lot of people will flame me for this but what the hell I'm tasmanian, 2 headed and bloody brood shouldered.
I am also a member of ANSA and was the tasmanian tagging deligate for a couple of years.
So got that out the way.

To fish as a hunter/gatherer can be justified to any reasonable person that cares to listen as we all hunt and gather in our own way wether it be at the supermarket or out in the bush at the source. Most people of reasonable sound mind do it in such a way as to minimise the pain and suffering of the species we choose to hunt/gather. If in this same position as a hunter/gatherer we are asked to decrease or have an open /closed season, the true hunterer/gatherer will agree and bide by them reasonings if of sound sicienctific research.

Sportfishing
catch and release
what ever you like to call it is just that. Using an animal/fish for our own pleasure.

How can we as a group justify fishing for that purpose.
I am not at all saying stop catch and release (do it my self), I just think that with all the political side of catch and release with goverment sponership we are putting our selves in a perilise postition. I believe we need to return our focus to it being a hunter/gatherer occupation over and above a catch and release management arangement. Groups like the Radical green movement and PETA etc are also hunter/gatherers in there own right (maybe some are only gatherers).
So maybe some of the catch and release people can see the reasoning for the hunter/gatherer and start to support that side of fishing as I think if we want our grand kids to fish it will only be allowed as a hunter/gatherer and not the sportfishing as we know today.

I hope with this post I create a lot of passion and debate but please refraim from personal insults as that takes away from the debate that can be had on this topic and in its own small way may help our future

cheers
blaze
ps
lots of spelling errors as the left head kept argueing the the right head

[banshee]

I know what you are saying Blaze but I disagree,fact is I catch a lot more fish than I care to take home so if in good condition I release them,I could stop fishing when I get a feed and head home but I choose not to,I love to fish,I also target fish that I have absolutely no intention of puting in the esky Kingies,Mangrove Jacks,Bass to name a few,once again I choose to do this and the bleatings of some feral green idiots will not change my actions.If this is veiwed as barbaric by some in the wider comunity so be it I believe my angling and release techniques leaves the vast majority of fish,that in my opinion can not feel pain,well enough to fight another day.Is what I do any worse than the people who flog the shit out of horses racing in steeple chases knowing that if the horse(that has a complex nervous system and can definately process pain) falls there is a better than even chance it will be destroyed?

P.S. Sorry about the feral green idiot thing,I live between Nimbin and The Channon and I find it hard to think of these people as any thing else.

[dasher]

A thought ???

[dasher]

Seriously I would prefer this subject never to come up and leave sleeping dogs lie.

[blaze]

Hi Dasher
I also wish there wasnt a need for the subject to be put on the table for discussion, thats the world we now live in and cant bury our heads in the sand (doesnt seem to have hurt the emu to much though)
cheers
blaze

[blaze]

hear what ya saying banshee, I also release far more than I take home (thats gotta be good)
my concern is the political support for catch and release (its all ya seem to read and hear in the media too) and that makes it a easy tarket for radicals as its already has a lot of exposure
cheers
blaze

[Jeremy]

interesting subject Blaze.

1. everyone has to catch and release at least some of the time. Fish of under or over legal size HAVE to be released, as do fish over the bag limit, or undesirable fish, etc etc etc. What is the difference between releasing part of your catch or most/all of it?

2. We all fish for pleasure. Even those of us who keep all legal size fish would have to rate the recreation/enjoyment as the #1 reason. There would be very few people indeed who would be able to justify the expense (tackle, boat, petrol etc)compared to the return (fish fillets) without getting something else out of it. Just can't see that argument holding water myself.

Cheers,

Jeremy

[DICER]

Perhaps Blaze is highlighting that catch and release may have a public identity crisis, and is techically going soft - moreover would it be better to change our image to "catch and keep" and avoid adverse publicity or abrasion with animal rights groups.

I think not and the majority of Australian people would conclude it is acceptable to fish, sometimes by only catch and releasing. This is what probably matters the most - is it acceptable to the general public? Yes (and for pleasure).

(BTW Jeremy what aspect of cancer research do you study?)

[bugman]

Very timely discussion gents.

I just attended a fisheries meeting where one of the members had recently attended a world rec fishing conference in Norway.

He was blown away by the situation in Europe regarding catch and release. In quite a number of countries catch and release has been banned - that's right banned. People that have sought to organise catch and release tournaments and or fished in catch and release tournaments have been prosecuted - that's right prosecuted.

He's seeking more info in order to present a factual presentation to GBRMPA. I've asked him to forward all his info on to me in order to publish it here.

It will make for some very interesting reading gentlemen.

By the way I'd also like to welcome another Ausfish member SeaFisher not only to the chat boards but also to the Inshore FinFish MAC. His input here and on the MAC will be very very valuable.

Regards

Brett

[adrian]

since i only keep what i need for a feed and release the rest . after all frozen fish yuk i'd buy fish fingers from woolies before i'd eat frozen fish . doesn't have the same taste or techture

[gif]

Bugman is correct - I dug this up a year ago

Fishing regulations for Mecklenburg-Vorpommern (East Germany)

(1) Unbeschadet sonstiger Vorschriften ist verboten:
1. das Angeln ohne sinnvolle Verwertung des gefangenen Fisches,
2. die Verwendung lebender Köderfische,
3. das Wettangeln oder andere fischereiliche Veranstaltungen mit Wettbewerbscharakter durchzuführen,
4. die Lebendhälterung gefangener Fische in Setzkeschern in Ausübung des Angelns,
5. das Aussetzen maßiger Fische in Gewässer gemäß § 1 Abs. 3 Satz 2 zum Zweck des Wiederfangens und des Angelns der zu diesem Zweck zuvor eigens maßigen ausgesetzten Fische, wenn nicht zwischen dem Aussetzen und dem Wiederfang ein Zeitraum von mindestens vier Wochen eingehalten wird.
(2) Die zuständige Fischereibehörde kann Ausnahmen von Absatz 1 Nr. 2 zulassen, wenn es für die Ausübung der berufsmäßigen Fischerei zwingend erforderlich ist.

[gunna]

Thanks Gary - that makes interesting reading [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

[gif]

My translation is not guaranteed but the only word I really doubted is probably "Livewell"

Basically
- no competitions
- no live baiting
- no catch and release # AKA #"Meaninful Utilization" ( no I could not work out what happened with undersized - direct translations do not cover that subtle issue)

Gary


(1)Not regarding other rules the following is forbidden:

1.fishing without a meaningful utilisation of the caught fish,
2.the utilisation of living baits
3.fishing for competitive purposes or other events having a competitive nature
4.keeping living fish in a live well when practising fishing
5.releasing fish in seas following Paragraph 1 Line 3, Sentence 2 to catch them again and fish for them again if there is not a period of at least four weeks between releasing them and catching them again.

(2) The administration can allow exceptions from the rules if it is compulsory for professional fishing.

[Jeremy]

OK, lets play devils advocate for a minute. So catch and release is banned....

with no fish able to be released, the fisheries will collapse within 5 years. Imagine all the little squire taken from the shallow reefs, all the big and little flathead kept, Once one species becomes hard to catch, people will move on to another. It will take hours to catch just a few fish.

So what is better? A sustainable fishery with size and bag limits and fish outside of these limits and in excess of your need released, or all fish caught must be utilised.

No brainer for me.

I believe Blaze posed this question as a 'what if'. Is there anyone out there that actually believes that this is the right way to go?

Jeremy

[Custaro]

I can't see the animal rights people attacking the recreational fishing community over catch & release of our popular table species. Billfish/Game fishing, I assume would be a main focus. Next on list could possibly be Murray Cod & Mary River Cod.

Like in Europe, the animal rights groups will raise a valid argument. Not one that I personally agree fully with. BUT...In Oz we love our outdoor recreation and our Governments do recognise this. In will never get the wider community support to back such laws.

[blaze]

I just think we need to carefully discuss all options because I believe we may be in for some tough times and if through healthy debate in forums such as this some ideas are carried to fishing clubs, political groups etc by people that have read or been involved the forums then we are at the very least starting to put foward ideas, something that we as a body are really only just starting to do and are light years behind groups such as the greens (I am a conservatist not a greenie, as I believe most fisherpeople are)
Good healthy debate is the way of the future
cheers
blaze

[banshee]

To those that don't want it debated I ask why? Is it wrong? or is it because some unwashed grub or some cabsav sipping yuppy says it's wrong? To my way of thinking we are simply another of many predators for these animals to contend with,something that happens in their world every second of every day,should we choose to release one after an encounter with us all the better for them.

[JewseeTHAT]

As an unwashed grub (I have 3 showers a week and had a huuuge shower y\day ((a whole 5 minutes worth)) due to plenty of water but took offense due to the remaining 4 days), and as a cabsav skuller (sipping is for wimps). Wake up amd smell the roses guys! The fun killers are watching, and won't be happy untill we are all living on synthetically grown tofu and air.Thinking it won't happen here is just what they want you to think.

[Gazza]

Very timely discussion gents.

I just attended a fisheries meeting where one of the members
had recently attended a world rec fishing conference in Norway.

He was blown away by the situation in Europe regarding catch and release. In quite a number of countries catch and release has been banned - that's right banned. People that have sought to organise catch and release tournaments and or fished in catch and release tournaments have been prosecuted - that's right prosecuted.

He's seeking more info in order to present a factual presentation to GBRMPA. I've asked him to forward all his info on to me in order to publish it here.

It will make for some very interesting reading gentlemen.

By the way I'd also like to welcome another Ausfish member SeaFisher not only to the chat boards but also to the Inshore FinFish MAC. His input here and on the MAC will be very very valuable.

Regards

Brett
Bugman...Norway is the 2nd. whaling nation ,of only two(2) in the world #???
http://www.wspa-usa.org/pages/543_norway_set_to_kill_more_whales.cfm

Guys ,C&R(only) is a seperate form of fishing...IMO

Fish-4-Food reasoning/justification ,even as a "bonus" of a "great" day out ,will stand solid, as long as people eat food.

Releasing fish i.e. pre-spawning age, is RESPONSIBLE!!

Scenario: if jetski regs are different to boating regs...

To me, C&R(only) fishing is a similar scenario #??? ,as it does not relate to bag or size ,and generally a begrudged attitude to "closed seasons"...as we're not actually fishing for them ,as we don't actually eat them #???

IF that "seperates" me/meato/redneck/maroon from the T&T(only) #:-X
Seperate regs are fine by me....JMO

Welcome SeaFisher

[basserman]

well most people who C&R are very sensitive to the fish and the environment and many of us will not fish for breeding fish or is a closed session as it is still putting fish under stress how ever i can not see how catch and release fishing is any more hamful to animals than say horse racing or rodeo or even seaworld haveing captive pelagics hell anyone haveing an aquariam for that point
however i think we give these minoritys too much credit and althought they do watch and kick up a stink i dout very much that have many sane followers ;)

[kc]

This issue keeps raising its head and has been debated previuosly. From a TFPQ perspective we absolutely support C & R...BUT....it will become a target, just as it has overseas, particularly in countries which have influentail green parties (like Germany).

The Federal Environment Minister (past...David Kemp) is on public record saying....."We have a policy which opposses any form of hunting for pleasure".........message being C & R is fine...just as long as you don't enjoy yourselves doing it!

That said, it is an issue some years away (I think) and general access and habitat protection issues are probabley higher up our ladder of concern.

It just may be however that the profile of the live fish/ C & R competitions may just be working to our ultimate disadvantage & I might add the old catch and kill comps with piles of dead fish don't help either.

It may well just be my obviuosly paranoid reasoning but it seems all roads lead the same way...bit by bit, inch by inch the whole sport of recreational fishing is being "depopularised" by all levels of Government........even up here the local council has just banned fishing from the famous Shute Harbour Jetty.

For most of us this is just a passionate pastime...pity help all the poor buggers who make a living off it.

I have just finished reading a copy of a letter, sent to a North Queensland Marine dealer of 20 years standing, from a major outboard company, telling him his dealership is now under revue because he has not sold his quota (or even got within a bulls roar of it)...some of you may have already seen the DPI data showing a 42% reduction in recreational fishing in Cairns in the last 12 months....worrying times ahead and worrying signs for Hervey Bay.

Regards

KC

[blaze]

.

It just may be however that the profile of the live fish/ C & R competitions may just be working to our ultimate disadvantage & I might add the old catch and kill comps with piles of dead fish don't help either.



KC

Hi Kc
this is the part that really concern me I think because of its high profile
I think we need to highlite the hunter/gatherer somemore
cheers
blaze

[banshee]

"for most of us it's a passionate pastime......pity help the poor bugers that make a living off it."

K.C. if your refering to the commercial sector it may interest you to know that the greens that I have taken to task over their stance on angling are quite happy to have the pro's continue on their merry way,their reasons are basicly that the masses need food and this is the best way to get it from the sea.If on the other hand you are talking about the tackle stores etc I agree,the one I work in would close,it's a sports store and we don't have a bat or a ball in the place,we cater wholey and soley to shooters,anglers and archers.If the government were to pass such a law I would deem it ridiculous and quite frankly I would not conform.

[Burley_Boy]

The only way to fight the green lobby from heading this way in Australia (may be years away but it filters down eventually...) would be to lobby for the health benefits of encouraging our young kids to go fishing and enjoy the great outdoors.

Keep building that positive image of life and get people to treasure it, and if someone needs a comparison of a healthy life then compare the quality of life we enjoy compared to such hugely populated industrialised nations such as Germany.

Failing that, promote seal clubbing and whaling and then after a prolonged fight with the greens we'll give in if they leave us alone. ;D

[CHRIS_aka_GWH]

i would rate myself as a hunter. My pleasure (best described as satisfaction) is gained by achieving the goal of capturing my quarry in a natural environment & the pleasure friends & family take from eating it.
To be honest, & it probably applies to all of we visible Ausfish members, I also enjoy the accolades that capture gains from the same, & the memories of the hunt.

I fish with the heaviest practical poundage to ensure the quick capture of a target.
I target only species I intend to eat & cease fishing once I've achieved that end if it happens quickly. I do release fish of course - by catch & undersize.

[Daintreeboy]

I'm still working through this thread but I don't fish for a species if I've reached my limit, I go home. I C&R a lot but like to eat fish so keep heaps, nothing wrong with that. It's better than an all red meat diet isn't it?
Cheers, Mark.

[BigE]

learn to vote people learn to vote!!!!

[blaze]

Hi bige
I think theres a lot more to it than just learning to vote, not against the fishing party as if it wasnt for people like kc the queensland fisheries would be a lot worse off.
Me, well I dont have the answer but I think it needs to be a continueos debate.
And for all that have posted replys, thank you for debate and not abuse
cheers
blaze
ps
picked up a mag and was reading today
Modern Fishing and there was an actical by Starlo along the same lines

[dasher]

well most people who C&R are very sensitive to the fish and the environment and many of us will not fish for breeding fish or is a closed session as it is still putting fish under stress how ever i can not see how catch and release fishing is any more hamful to animals than say horse racing or rodeo or even seaworld haveing captive pelagics hell anyone haveing an aquariam for that point
however i think we give these minoritys too much credit and althought they do watch and kick up a stink i dout very much that have many sane followers ;)

I have no prob with C&R but prefer not to debate it for this reason. If you think the enemy are a hippie based yahoo group, you are seriously mistaken. They have closed down major shops in USA and are currently threatening the viability of the Australian wool industry. They are big and they are powerful and not to be ignored. This is why I feep advocating that C&R be kept inhouse as much as possible. By all means the release of unwanted or undersized fish releases should be open, but sporting C&R is best left alone.

[kc]

Back to you Bashee, I'm talking Bait & tackle/Marine retail here, not commercial fishers....we might have some common ground with the pro's but are polls apart on other issues and to a large degree they have done their own thing from a lobbying perspective, not worked through TFPQ...nor have we asked them to.

We can take 2 tacks with this whole issue...ignore it & hope it will go away..or have a stategy to deal with it. My personal belief for those really into C & R is start tagging!! Likewise fishing mags and fishing shows should include cooking/fish handling type "bits".....get back to one of the real justifications for fishing...that said it is a personal belief...not a party policy. I noted someones comment about stopping targeting a particular species once a bag limit was reached.

I have just come back from a month long fish fest in Weipa where we spent whole days C & Ring Long tails, Gt's and Jacks...sometimes 100 a day......and I LOVED EVERY MINUTE OF IT...........hmmm!

I find it awful hard to drive past a bait ball of Tuna going ballistic & not chuck in a slug or wave the fly rod around......& I am not ever going to feel guilty about it.

KC

[Volvo]

Aint it amazing how some things just go in one BIG Circle lol....T'werent too far back we had all the top notch fishin Gooroo's and top guns tellin the masses ta fish fer the passtime n not fer the table??!!..leave that one alone before bumfight starts me is thinking :-/...
Yes i can see where blaze or the starter if the thread is comming from and agree that the potential to come under attack by the so called doo-gooders is a possabillity but JUST HOW MUCH of your rights, freedom , pastime or whatever ya want to call it do you give up each time a minority group throws a tantrum ,do you give up???..
And it dont happen just by a snap o the finger either , tis done cleverly ;)....
How ???....Infiltration n conspiracies :o ;)..Feck no i aint havin a brainsnap either..
Ask kc he should have n idea of what i'm talkin about...
just like opposition members joing the opposing side to change the way of things, these lot may even join up on forums , bring the topic up, run opinion poles etc on the topic etc...
Who remembers the Port Aurther shooting and some of the previous events to that????, the publicity that went along with it for yonks..AND!! what came out of i??, the change of Gun laws and some revanue as an offshoot..Didnt stop gun toting or killings by those that had intentions to do so but it did bring about the changes to gun laws with the consent of the masses ;)...
Hence, no strong opposition to the changes :)...
Same will happen here...
Personlly i prefer my Children to be out fishing whether it be catch n release or bringin em back home(Prefered ;D) rather than hangin about in malls making a nuicence of themselves because they no longer have a passtime allowable to them ..
If a topic is raised often enough , debated to the point of it being Bad, Bad, Bad then the public will see it as bein bad and you can betcha acehole it will be banned or outlawed, make no mistake about it..
And yes i do believe in Conspiracy theories lol, they are part of a degree or subject if you wish to study ...
Am i ranting ??? :o, okay i'll get off me soapbox lol..
Cheers n leave Fishin alone fer fecks sake, too good of a passtime ta be feckin up..

[blaze]

Hi Volvo
Not ranting, maybe just telling it how it is.
Give up all my guns after port arther, wont go that way ever again.
cheers
blaze

[Volvo]

G'day blaze, i gave up all my Guns and my Bows also but only cause i wanted $$ fer fishing gear for my first boat lol..
Sometimes i wish i still had my barebows at least but they are another product on the way out or targeted that way ...
t'least i still have me boat n rods lol, or so far anyway :)..

[DICER]

I would have to say that fishing, and catch and release, is very popular here in the Netherlands. Mind you grass carp must always be returned to the water as they are important species for this habitat. And sure you can not live bait in the rivers or oceans, but I see five or more people everyday fishing on my way home from work (8 min bike ride) and they always chuck the fish back. And these are just the little canals. People just bring out the chairs and sometimes the family. On the major canals, when I fished last week, I saw at least thirty different groups. In the Netherlands there is regulations and closures on specific species, and if you catch them by mistake they go back into the water alive. On my second fishing "expedition" I was patrolled like everybody else by the real police in their rubber duck. They checked my two licenses and even checked I wasn't using live bait. Funny guys, they tolerate dope and test your soft drugs for free, but they check to see if you're using a livie!! I wanted to take a pic.

I believe Germany would be the most conservative region taken as an example above, but nonetheless the Elbe river around Hamburg is rather popular as I've observed (mind you who wouldn't want to catch and release near the nuclear power plants!). In some parts it's hard to get a spot on the bank.

There is a big underlying factor in popularity for fishing in the Netherlands, especially by catch and release. Both "Buena Vista fishing" or "Hooked on fishing" and "Rex Hunt" occupy the 9.00 am and 9.30 am and 5.00 and 5.30 pm slots on the Discovery Channel. Twice-a-day Rex and everybody I talk to about fishing here says .......blah blah blah Rex Hunt blah blah Rex blah Rex Rex..... and what does Rex do ... release, release, release

[szopen]

Now as I understand of what is happening in Germany and some other countries to a lesser extent is that fishing as a competition is not allowed whether C&R or catch and kill.

It does make some sense.

Especially when you understand how many of the fishing competitions in Europe work, in some I have seen people winning by catching 5 or so fish maybe 5-10cm long.

[ssbayguide]

Hmmm..

Are we, or those who are against catch and release actually confusing catch and release with tagging?

When I was a member of ANSA (I was a member for approximately 15 years), I also questioned (on a parallel level) tag and release practices, particularly when people were simply tagging large numbers of species that were not threatened, in order to win a trophy.

I know this is definitely NOT the mentality of many, if not most of the members of ANSA who joined under the banner of SPORT, INTEGRITY, CONSERVATION (I think that's the right order).

Those who practice "trophy" tagging on species of low priority and those who simply target one species week after week, year after year do potentially undermine the excellent work of those who started and continue the tagging program (with the support of many government and non-government organizations) and those who seek to experience different sportfishing experiences - thereby developing a better understanding of our precious environments.

I honestly believe that the days of game and sportfishing are numbered, not by our own actions but by those who can created a somewhat "coloured" view of what we do. If you also put a fish on the table now and then, no one can pick a fight with you.

As many have pointed out, catch and release is inevitable. Personally, I feel good about releasing an oversize flathead or undersized barra that has been lipped hooked (barbless) and treated gently - don't we all?


Peter



Peter R

[DICER]

Next weekend I will find out details (competitions) from the Hamburg-Stade-Cuxhaven region in Germany - I am applying for a license(s) there. Both the small neighboring village and larger one further away (~7km) have fishing stores.

Competitions are alive and well in the Netherlands. Again it depends on what freshwater species are being targeted - Pike, pikeperch (Roofvis), Dace etc (Witvis), carp (karpervis). I'm not an expert in competitions but I would believe that you could win if you caught 5 small Dace, but not in pike/pikeperch

I don't believe game and sportfishing are numbered in Australia if you can indeed show that 1) catch and release/tagging works, 2) sustainable practices are in place and the target species are not fully exploited and 3) the species continue to be taken and targeted by professional fishing/harvesters

[ssbayguide]

Hey Dicer

As I said...Even the best science/common sense may not prevail when we are presented with images of gasping fish in the media!


Peter

[Tassie_Boy]

Its already started ( complete with an image of a crying fish )

http://www.animal-lib.org.au/lists/fish/fish.shtml

This scares me. There are many similarities between fishing and fox hunting and look what happenned to the hunt in England.

[szopen]

I honestly fail to see anything in common between fishing and fox hunting.

Let's be honest.

How many of you think fox hunting (with hounds) is really OK???

Fox hunting with a rifle is of course a different story and that has not been banned.

[basserman]

funny that web site has a link calling for the baning of all pet store sales of live pets ::)
these type of people are really commies in discuise as they woun't be happy untill every single one of ua was a vegain

[Angla]

Can you imagine a Grinner catch and release comp in 2010

This is an interesting read and I for one certainly hope it never gets off the ground here in Aus where we still have some freedoms.

Lets continue with management of our fisheries as is happening with adjustments made for threatened species as required.

Angla

[DICER]

what would you use for bait in the "Grinner catch and release" comp?

I think they were quite right to ban fox hunting without a rifle. Then again I think a species outside of it's native habitat, like the fox in Australia, could be targeted by more diverse/relaxed methods (but humane methods) of capture and kill.

"would you like to pat my pet grinner" - I don't think a grinner could cry

[bigred]

maby the term catch and release should be changed to "gather and feed" after all thats what most of us are doing.

[ssbayguide]

Fox hunting is sick.

I'm a distance runner and would like to get a group together to chase those red jacket-wearing bullies. They'd be barefoot and set free 40km west of Townsville.

Bring it on!

[imnotoriginal]

lol, gather and feed, I like that BigRed. Well said.
Joel

[mariner_22]

maybe we should leave it too the fish I am shore if I wasgiven the choice of being put back in the water too live or be gutted, gilled wrapped in foil then put in the oven to cook and then be eaten.

I know what my choice would be

[Cloud_9]

LEAVE THE RECREATION PERSUITS OF AUSTRALIANS ALONE YOU GREEN HAIRY ARMPIT CRETTONS

ill go to jail before i let some ###### tell me i cant fish and let the Fu##er go.

its reasoning like that, that stuffed the whole thing up over sea's in the first place
so go smack the bejesus outa yourself Blaze
the same thing nearly happened in the states but the fishing clubs got to the government first and promoted the fishing is a family acttivity/sport.
and circumvented the possible green ###### /your hurting the fish by releasing the thing crap.
with stupid lodgic like that blaze you should resign from ANSA for even suggesting something that could possibly start the do good movement thinking about how to force their way on the majority of australians that love recreational fishing.
i cant type enough blue language to show my absolute disgust of an Austrailian even putting forward dribble of this nature on here.

Cloud 9

[peterbo3]

Basserman,
Mate, Commies aren't vegans. Stalin & Mao were big meat eaters. The peasants would eat ANYTHING cos they were always hungry. The middle guys were probably cannibals. :o :o :o :o :o :o But to cut to the chase.
There is a lot of C&R practised up here around Mackay. Ya catch them. Ya take a slab off each side real quick. Ya release them. What could be more natural. Everyone is a winner. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D The fisherman scores a feed & the fish doesn't have to swim around with all that extra weight. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

[Cloud_9]

while i haven't read all the post in here, the post about bringing up fox hunting theres no comparason between the 2. the fox is tormented for miles by the dogs before the hunters arrive. its a bit different to throwing a SP to a fish thats thinking that looks good enough to eat and gang its on the hook.
considering that fish are a eat or be eaten species a small pin prick and a breef struggle , then to be set free.no comparison.

Cloud 9

[basserman]

peter was more calling them commies because they would only really be happy if we were all the same
read some of the coments they made on the site and they truly are against everything and think people who eat meat need educating
but hey thats there thought and i truly belive in this free country of ours and i'm more than happy for them to think all this aslong as they don't try to push it onto people that don't want it ;D

[Cloud_9]

i still cant beleave the stupid stuff people come up with?
and for an ANSA member to even suggest or post a topic is totaly beyond me.
im the vise president/Games master of a fishing club on the goldcoast and while where not ANSA afiliated we originaly were.
We still follow the guidelines Ansa use, includeing the topics on pages 4-5 of Ansa's own Rule book.

which states on the front page.
SPORT, CONSERVATION, INTEGRITY .
IF CATCH AND RELEASE WAS TO END SO TO THE ( SPORT OF FISHING )
AND the multibillion dollar industry that helps us catch fish for sport and or a feed if we so choose.
you friggin Clowns

Cloud 9

[blaze]

Hi all.
looks like I am really a bad bastard in some peoples eyes, in my orignal post I said I thought this may be a topic of good debate, seems not.
As I stated earier I eat fish, catch & release and tag and believe that it is one of the last domains where people can see each other as equals whilst partipating in a family pursuit.
I also read most fishing mags and this topic is being raised nearly every month by either the editior or a regular colume writer.
debate not abuse
cheers
blaze
Ps
If people think I am green please remember my mutton bird post, not green but a consevationist (like to be outdoors, love the ocean or a freshwater stream, pick up my rubbish and a lot of other scumbags rubbish, heat my house by burning 20 tonne of wood, drive a fuel guzzling rangie) not green and not radical in any shape or form

[Cloud_9]

after reading this post blaze you almost seam like real fisho
just got my woundering why bring it up . some countries already have stoped sport fishing so why fire up the BARBY on the topic that has the very real possibility of stopping what you say your all for !
im all for heathy debait too.
but this is throwing a match in the petrol.
Cloud 9

[blaze]

hi cloud9
My reason for bring it up is for debate, if on senitive issues we bury our head in the sand, well we all know what happens then.
If topic like this are discused it will give the radicals less ammunition as they can see people are taking an ACTIVE interest in the preservation of there sport/hobbie and are prepared to fight to retain their rights in all forms. But without debate we just as well stick our heads up our arses, dam right I have a passion
cheers
blaze

[banshee]

The NSW Govt is currently part way through a study on this very subject,results released so far via a paper show that the majority of fish(75%) handle catch and release with no mortality,I would think that if any Govt were contemplating baning such a practice they would almost certainly not undertake such a venture,further more they certainly would not publish the findings with such a positive spin on them.The green party in this country has been around a while,at best the voting public could be seen to be tolerant of them,they come into their own only when numbers are needed to pass a bill,it would be a brave Govt that would appease them/buy them off with a law that firstly,has the potential to put off side a hell of a lot of voters(fishing is by far the most participated sport/hobbie in this country) and secondly flies in the face of studies conducted by themselves and indipendent scientists that show catch and release is benificial to the fishery in genneral.What's more think of the logisticle nightmare in policeing such a law.Baning catch and release in this country? It just will not hapen.

[DICER]

bad boy blaze, starting up the barby ;D

I think a lot of people use livies ... is this part of catch and release?? ;D ;D I don't know if you guys think its a threat, but as I've brought up before its banned in a lot of places in europe.

It would be a shocker if I couldn't throw down my grinner ;D Seriously I don't think that would be the place to go.

[Cloud_9]

dont worry about being publicly abused on public forum like this.
i get it all the time .
water off the AH's back. ( AH see rectal orifice)
thats me the ah blaze not you , my father inlaw used to refer to me as AH all the time.
its like Fu##en with peoples livly hood. expect to get bagged and abused.
Cloud 9

[szopen]

The idea behind banning the use of live fish for a bait is based on the concept that you can catch the same target species using other methods. Although an ages old method banning it actually was supported by part of the fishing community.

What also must be remembered is that in Europe for a very long time on some waters use of any natural bait is not allowed and on some only fly fishing is OK. These are trout/salmon waters and these rules did come from the fishing community (or part of it that chases these fish in the "pure" way) itself.

And now a thought for the day.

What would be "water based" equivalent of fox hunting with hounds?

Everybody coming with their pet shark, very big glass poll, one "grinner" going in, than all the sharks, whose shark gets the fish first wins.

This just to show how much this type of fox hunting has to do with hunting in general.

[Tassie_Boy]

I don't think it takes much intelligence to see a very clear similarity between fox hunting and catch and release fishing ( CHASING WILD ANIMALS FOR PLEASURE - thats for the thickies ) and while many fishos might not see it ( or want to see it ) you can bet your fishin license that the non fishin community doesn't see them that much differently.

[roz]

I totally agree with you cloud 9 (nice to meet you by the way), I have been an ANSA member for over 17 years and tag and release would have to one of the most worthwhile things I have been involved in, and still am.

I don't think it matters actually, not all fish are eligable for the tagging programe anyway, but putting a fish back after you have finished with it is the right thing to do, surely there is no need to explain why?

I really don't understand all this ' touchie feelie ' stuff with regards to fishing. I feel sorry for the poms who have had to give up a centuries old tradition. Our fishing practices may be next on the list.

roz.

[NeMo84]

i cant see it happening, if people want catch and release banned cos its cruel and us to kill everything we catch, it seems like the human equivalent of having a broken hand(but not as bad) and getting killed to put you out of your misery, the fish can handle it, if they could talk do u think they'd be saying "kill me!"? i reckon theyd be sayin "let me go!". As for the fox hunting comparison i reckon its bull$*#t, as long as your fishing with a rod and not a net the fish has a much better chance than a fox being pursued through the scrub by a pack of larger dogs and a man with a hunting rifle, if any comparison can be made between catching fish and foxes its that using a trap to catch foxes is a little like baiting a hook for a fish, only difference is the fish has a much better chance of survival after capture than the fox. Just my 2 cents. Feel free to pay me out ;)

[PinHead]

"considering that fish are a eat or be eaten species a small pin prick and a breef struggle , then to be set free.no comparison."

That pin prick in a 2kg fish may not feel like a pin prick to the fish and the brief struggle..in perspective ..of that 2kg fish was being caught by a 100kg human..that would be equivalent to the 100kg human being dragged along by something weighing 5000kg..hardly much of a competition and only a brief time. Some good points of view either way on this one...maybe in Europe the larger population and the smaller area of water for fishing may have led to their regulations.

[seabug]

"The NSW Govt is currently part way through a study "

The Victorian Govt. also had studies /meetings on the merits of hardwood milling in the Otway ranges and cattle grazing in the Snowy Mountains.
Put an end to both,and got the Green vote.

Both had been going on since colonisation

Never trust a polly!

[Burley_Boy]

Think you hit the pin on the head there pinhead (re population)!
Healty debate is good if you have facts to back up your arguments so Blaze I apprecitate that you bring up the subject.
I don't think that the animal liberationists are the people with the publics general support at the moment and I'm sure there are many a greenie with a fishing rod. Animal Lib might pick the easiest target though and we might be a less organised opponent than the battery hen or pro-fisher brigade. hmmmm don't vegies have feelings too? :-/

As far as C&R as opposed to livebaiting, I'd expect that livebaiting would be a more emotive subject and possibly harder to defend so I'm considering using anesthetics released in the water just before I drop a stick of TNT to painlessly bring my catch to the surface ;D

[kc]

I think Blaze was right to bring this up, despite copping a fair tune up from Cloud 9. Ignore this & hope it will go away??? Or try to be ready for the day IT WILL become an issue....not if but WHEN. Maybe a few year away but you only have to scratch the surface of the ultragreen movement to see that they are already getting organised...and have the ear of the press.

The green movement have already demonstrated they have the political clout to force issues purely on emotion and regardless of the evidence..ie the RAP on the Great Barrier Reef, Grey Nurse Sharks, Nigaloo......they got the Duck Hunters and like it or not fishing is the last great blood sport & clearly on their radar.

Fishing for food is totally justifiable, letting go underside or otherwise unwanted fish is totally justifiable. TAG & release is totally justifiable....but for those like me (& many others) who straight out fish for the fun of it (lots of times) and let go everything it IS going to become an issue...more specifically major gamefish like Marlin.

You can ignore it, abuse anyone raising the subject and othewise pour scorn but it is not going to change the fact that "we" hunt for pleasure!!...........do I feel guilty about this NO!

Reards

KC

[NeMo84]

bloody greenies >:(