Charter Boat Disgrace

[dazza]

Hi All,
Had a conversation with a guy, who was telling me he was speaking to a charter boat operator. (reliable source)
the operator was said he was havng a great season on the snapper, and on many occasions his punters bag out, once this is achieved he keeps fishing and sells the catch through on his pro liscence. He displays his commercial letttering on his boat, but mainly works as an offshore charter buisiness
Surley this can't be legal. Is this normal practice?
Would be interested to hear others opinions
Cheers
Dazza

[raefpud]

too many cowboy pirates and ocean rapists out there hey

[bugman]

Dazza,

Illegal - definitely.

Not too much to be done about it now as it has been done but I'm sure fisheries would like his rego in order to keep a watch on him in the future.

Brett

[peabow]

call fishwatch 18000-17166 see what thay have to say about it then you will know and thay can take care of him big time. ;D

[kitty_cat]

just to put 2 bob worth in ,i dont think compapered to the alternate way that people are raping the sea that a boat of rod fishing amertures even after baging out ,if he is licenced to take and sell a few fish to make some money on the side is worth worring about,
these charter boat guys dont make much money, (fuel and bait aint cheap ) through the competivness of every man and his dog opening charters and offering to take guys out for nicks, think about it a spin off on your buinness that lets anglers fish for longer and keeps him operating and doing a service we all enjoy cannot be a bad thing.
just a thought not an argument
wayne

[bugman]

Wayne,

There plenty of good and well reasoned arguements to break or bend rules.

But in the end it's simple - Rules are rules. Either play by them or don't play.

Rec fishos have to play within the rules.

Brett

[Wear_the_fox_hat]

All,
How do you think the paying customers would go if the charter is inspected & the question was asked "who caught all the fish & how were they caught???"
:o :-/

[banshee]

This clown has a great lurk,people paying to work for him.

[dazza]

Hi Wayne,
i guess it is a pity that these tye of operators are in business, ie backyard charters, shametures and plain old shonky buissnesses. i recon there are plenty of charter operators who run very good businesses, hence why they have been in business for a long time.
unfortunatley we all pay the price through reduced fish stocks, tighter bag limits, exclusion zones etc.
cheers
dazza

[-spiro-]

Dazza where dose this fella fish and moore his boat. Even a first letter would be good _ _ _ _ _/ _ _ _ _ _ _?maybe _ _ _ _ /_ _ _ _ ?maybe _ _ _ /_ _ _or _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ;D

[basserman]

well i think it may depend on each case here as i know of other charters that do the same thing and while they me be illagal (does anyone know if they can have both the fishing licence as well as a charter licence?) the ones i know are on Loard Howe Island so they need to catch the fish and sell them to the loacal restrunts and homes as it would cost a arm and leg for them to get it from the fish co-ops

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

umm, people, there is actually a legal operation called a 'commercial fishing tour' where people actually pay the licensed operator to catch fish. this operator may displaying his commercial fishing numbers because he is well in his right if he is conducting a commercial fishing tour. the fisherman/anglers pay a small fee, they take home a feed/bag limit etc, and the commercial licensed operator sells the excess to licensed buyers. totally legal unless laws have changed since i last looked. no difference to a commercial operator running a full crew, instead he/she ( the skipper) runs recreational fisherman. they aren't common, but they do exist. if this operator is displaying commercial fishing numbers, i doubt he is doing the wrong thing. it is actually illegal for a commercial fishing vessel to cover up his license numbers on his boat or on his tender boats. if a boat is dual registered, such as commercial and recreational, the boat can be used for both types of operations eg, family fishing day with commercial numbers still on display , as long as the rules and regulations are followed for either fishery. commercial fishing tours revolve around both, so i understand.

please follow my words as being about 90 % correct, not a hard and fast 100%.
regards,
johnny M

[banshee]

"no difference to a commercial opperator running a full crew"

Have to disagree there,the very fact that people are paying him to go means he can afford to have the maximum number of people aboard killing fish,if he was to pay his deckies as is the norm,that is,a certain percentage of the catch or profit divided between crew,he would be hard pressed to find a group any where near as big willing to share in the percentage.

[GBC]

6 degrees of separation here, I'm sure most will understand that government run game parks in Africa couldn't survive if they didn't let people shoot their own animals. Make no mistake, these animals have artificially supported populations and are going to be shot anyway, so why not fleece someone for the privelege and keep the park open. This carnage, however sickening is actually a strong form of conservation. Similar story with the crocs up North, they are going to die under a culling order anyway so why not charge interested parties to kill them under controlled circumstances - there is always a backup professional aiming at the same animal when the trophy hunter takes his/her shot. We all buy fresh seafood -it's the aussie thing to do. This guy is keeping the prices down for us, and if the fish are going to be caught anyway......Only people I feel sorry for are pro deckies who don't have a union, cause this isn't helping their pay packets at all.

[banshee]

I fail to see the common ground between African game reserves and Austrailian wild fish stocks,Fish stocks in this country are not artificialy supported to the extent that alows open slather,it is my understanding after watching landline on the ABC last month, that when a commercial fisherman reaches his quota he is not stoped from weighing fish in,he simply gets a lower price for any thing over the quota tonnage,this being the case,this practice would have a much higher than normal impact on wild fish stocks who's demise may not be as iminant as you think.

[dazza]

GBC
don't quite follow your logic.

as banshee said, these are wild stocks and not artificially suppoted.

dunno how you could draw a paralel with the potential overfishing of spawning snapper as a conservation measure.

the only thing this guy is doing is lining his own pockets at the expense of a finite resource. i am not against commercial fisherman or charter boats, i am against those that may be breaking the law's which help to protect these resources for future generations.


there is currently a rap (submissions now closed) out and one of the issues is having deckies on commercial boats liscenced, the proposal was for them to do a course of some sort to qualify them to work in the industry as a deckie, hopefully we will see this go through which will stop this type of thing happening or at least clarify the laws.
i read a press release from the head of the commercial fishing body who was against it. can't really follow why an a governing body wouldn't want adequate training and education for those involved in their industry. maybe this is alot more wisdespread than we think

Spiro,
i would love to name him, but i recon i would have a solicitors letter in the mail real quick, lets just say he is known in his local area as a bit of a rouge

cheers
dazza

[Awoonga]

I did a trip on a charter boat and the owner was also a pro fisher, while we didnt bag out on anything this particular day what I did understand was that while he had a registered deckie on board he was legally entitled to sell any fish he caught.
Something fishy going on here, this post is by ratsack not Awoonga, he was doing my job for me last week, looks like he might have spent time chatting and not working.

[GBC]

Yeah - she's a pretty slim thread tying the subjects together I know.... all seemed to make perfect sense while I was typing, you know how it gets, and as the avatar says, I got these voices talking at me too.... Points taken.
About the licensing, it's been 10 years since I worked on boats professionally and I can only speak for Gulf/Torres/East Coast otter trawlers, but anyone assisting in operations or processing was required to have an assistant master fisherman's licence. Passengers were allowed on board, however were not allowed on the back deck while processing was occuring. This was policed - R.I.B.'s appear from nowhere while your lines are out in the middle of the night etc. Just a money grab - license wasn't linked to having been successfully trained in anything apart from extricating the wallet from the pocket, and was more there as a way of logging sea time etc.

[damons33]

i'm with wayne here, a few hooks dont compare to a well placed drift net.
basically theres plenty on offer at the moment if you can't bag out why blame him for your lack of skills.... does your pilly spin like a propeller in the current?
:-[
in the end you can write all the laws you like! its the enforcement and intent of that law that make its all work, not the letter of the law, greedy crap thats ruling the day at the moment. shame on you for pointing the finger at some hard working man! by the way how do you earn a crust? maybe we can cast aspursions on your industry in a generalistic sence like" today tonite!" and the rest of the diversionary media who feed on the mindless fools amongst us.
my words are 100% "had a gut full of whingers" who do know jack squat!
damon

[dazza]

hi damon,

if you support some cowboy who is flouting the laws i feel sorry for you. if i have missed the mark and he is allowed to do this, please point me in the right direction where i can find the info
your post sounds a bit like a whinge, maybe you should re read it
cheers
dazza

[damons33]

i see your a supporter of increased buerocracy, you'll damn a little fish meanwhile ignoring a heap of ambiguity in all laws and the "gravy train" of do bugger all public servants and their lords and masters in the corparate sector.
hey i pay a licence and see nothing for it- it goes into river fires, american bank sponsored stadiums, goodwill bridges instead of roads and hospitals...
just remember- theres alot of sick people in india!

whats important is how things are at ground level, not how some justify their own existances!
you didnt say what you do for a liven darren did you?
and your post- the title post, isnt a whinge ? ibf
in my opinion the sooner all pro-fishing is with manned hooks the better(for fish).
damon

[roz]

Dazza,

It's simple, just ring up and give details. You will be doing the right thing.

Roz

[dazza]

Hi Damon
So what you are saying is bugger the laws and do what you want because we are over governed.

As far as occupation- i am a registered nurse and have worked in the field of emergency nursing for the past 18 years or so. I am well aware of the impacts of bureacrats who don't have a clue, my collegues and i cop abuse on a daily basis from the public. we are busting our rings trying to provide a decent level of healthcare in a system that is imploding
cheers
dazza

[roz]

I've just had read through some of the responses.

Damon,

I really can't believe you are serious, thats a fairly cynical attitude. Over regulated is better than not enough or none at all.

Hard working so 'n so be damned, he is ripping off everybody.

roz

[basserman]

we are not sure if he is or not
no one has put hard facts to the fact if he can have dule licences or weather he is doing the wrong thing or not

he maybe intiltles to do what he is
as i said in a earlyer post he isn't the only one that does it and in some parts this is the way the comunity gets their fish as well as tourisum dollers
a big question still needs to be answered and maybe one of the member that are up with the laws can answer

as for damon well i agree with him in that the sooner all comercail fishing is done by reels and line the better
surly this operator is doing less harm and haveing less pressure on the fish stock than some of these longliner boats or netters

[dazza]

found this, it is concained in the recent ris titled "proposed changes to fisheries licensing and fee arrangements"

Commercial Fisher, Assistant Fisher and Crew Licences

Background

Queensland fisheries legislation currently requires that all persons on board a
commercial fishing boat must hold either a Commercial Fisher licence, an Assistant
Fisher licence. To engage crew, a commercial fisher must also hold a crew licence.
Persons engaged as crew under a crew licence are taken to hold an assistant fisher
licence.

The new proposal is to remove this requirement and the skipper is the only on required to hold a commercial fisher liscence.

in my previous post i got it back to front, i apologise for that error

link to the ris http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/extra/pdf/fishweb/licencefee.pdf

cheers
dazza

[CFisher]

Lots of guessing going on here fellas, so here are some facts

I can have a vessel that is duel registered as a charter vessel and as a commercial fishing vessel. I CAN NOT use that one vessel to take paying clients to sea AND sell the resulting catch under my commercial fishing licence as a commercial gain. When I set to sea I either have paying clients on board who have all rights of fish caught, OR I have deckhands who fish for the boat (me) and share a percentage of the profits - NOT BOTH.

If this story is true, then this charter operator is breaking the law.

If the person who experienced this is so concerned, then he should have reported this activity to the authorities long ago. I do not understand people who believe the law is being broken, and rather than speak to those in the know (ie the appropriate auhtority/ies), choose to winge and whine in internet forums (Dazza, kick your mate in the bum).

And to those few folk who have mentioned nets in this post, the commercial snapper fishery in Queensland is a line fishery not a net fishery - and the facts are the lions share of snapper caught each year in Queensland waters are taken by recreational fishers not commercial fishers. Whinge bloody whinge about something few people have any hard facts about!

[2Tone]

C Fisher has it closest to the truth.

Commercial fishing vessels must have a commercial registration + applicable quota + appropriately licensed skipper,(Coxswain or master), + crew licence for the boat + appropriately licenced crew(commercial fishing license).

Commercial charter vessels must have commercial registration, no quota (EXCEPT RECREATION BAG LIMIT), commercial skipper, no crew licence, crew must be licenced (That is your deckie).

If the owner of the commercial boat wishes to go out and take his mates fishing all he needs is the boat to be commercially registered, none of the the licenses are required. (Bring on the grey area).

It lets the loop hole open. But as has been previously stated fuel and bait are money. Commercial boats only opperate for one reason. No more needs to be said.

[dazza]

hi cfisher
thanks for the clarification. i think my mate is was unsure of the law's hence not reporting the issue, will defiantley be a different story now. i think he will probably report it anyhow now that the laws have been clarified
cheers
dazza