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tideline_two
31-08-2005, 04:19 AM
i don't know how much coverage yall get over there but here in the states its being covered well. well actually there isn't much they can't say even yet because they just don't know the impact. the price of crude oil here just went up here and probably will around the world. gasoline went up by .30 this morning in my home town. expected to go up .75 cents more in the next week.
the mississippi river is of course still shut down and will be for some time. no shipments of grain going out fo a while. new orleans is under water due to a breach of their levey system and the water is still riseing. 20,000 people used the superdome has a evacuation center in new orleans. they are completely surrounded by water about 8 feet deep on 3 sides. no potable water, sanitary sewers don't flush up hill. air inside the superdome is over 90 plus. i would sure hate to be in there. the looters are out in force stealing everything they can in the areas that the water is shallow enough for them to wade thru.

over 3 million people are without power. there will be power outage for some of them for months. know death toll is about 70 people and riseing. many people were washed out into the gulf of mexico. oil rigs broke loose and one floated into mobile bay and lodged under a 6 lane hwy bridge.

yall its bad in lousianna mississippi and alabama. thankfull i live in south carolina and we were not affected. keep these people in your thoughts and prayers because they need it.

el_carpo
31-08-2005, 01:26 PM
:'( They sure do. It's just a horrible mess. :'(

dugong
31-08-2005, 07:14 PM
yes just saw it on the news :(,
whole area's are just gone :o washed away by the huge tidal surge plus all the damage done by the wind.
so sad :(

Dug
31-08-2005, 09:16 PM
I have a friend in Georgia his son is a US marshal doing duty in New Orleans it sounds pretty bad. our hearts and sympathy to all who are affected.

In 1974 Darwin was just about wiped off the map by cyclone Tracy they rebuilt better and stronger it is a great city now.

It is still sad to see so many lives lost, so many dreams crushed and so much history washed away.

tideline_two
01-09-2005, 07:14 AM
update. New Orleans has a city has ceased to exist. the people that are left in the city have been ordered to leave. but with everything under water they are stuck till they are rescued. the mayor of New Orleans has projected death toll the be in the thousands. over 2 million people now have no where to go. no homes. period. the newly dead are floating in the streets along with the dead from the graveyards. in New Orleans people are laid to rest in crypts above ground and the coffins are floating the caps of the crypts.
in Mississippi the known death toll is over 100. whole towns are gone. the gulf swallowed them up. oil rigs are afloat in the gulf and are washing up on the beaches. the recovery of bodies has not started yet just the rescue of the living.

i could go on and on but yall its bad there!! its almost like some movie the news we are seeing on the telly. the president has stated this is the worst disaster in the history of our country.

on a local note ... gasoline is in short supply all over the southeast. the price here in south carolina (500 miles from lousianna) has gone up $.65 per gallon in the last 24 hrs. now per gallon $3.20 here. gas shortages are starting in some areas and lines at gas staions are the norm.

FNQCairns
01-09-2005, 12:45 PM
I watched that storm bearing down on the coast with dread, couldn't believe some were going to stick it out! Some I guess had no choice in this day and age of everyone for themselves.

Early this year we had a very scary cyclone of the coast here that could have gone anywhere, we as a family were ready to go with everything packed just in case, people get complacent. That cyclone would have devastated Cairns if it had hit.

Why have I not seen military choppers like a swarm of locusts dropping basic shelter like poly tarps, solid high energy foodstuffs and water on TV! yet the storm has been well over for more than 2 hours! It's a shame all those people have been left to their own devices, who wouldn't loot some food and supply's if faced with starving etc. I would!

Trust a modern government to do the worst job possible - shocking it accounts true.

Best of luck to all who are feeling the after effects of your big one.fnq

maztez
01-09-2005, 01:28 PM
Tis a very sad time for a lot of people .Saddness that will go on for years to come .My wife ,myself ,son brett (brejen ) and daughter Kim .were caught in cyclone Tracy in 1974. The memory still lingers even after 31 years , We lost our house and contents but not our lives or the will to keep going .This was in part from the wonderful support of the people of australia and other countries and for that we are eternally greatfull.
I only hope that the us government reacts quickly and bring the necessecities to the mass who are affected by this disaster ...my thoughts are with you ..
Maztez(Terry)

basserman
01-09-2005, 02:36 PM
Why have I not seen military choppers like a swarm of locusts dropping basic shelter like poly tarps, solid high energy foodstuffs and water on TV! yet the storm has been well over for more than 2 hours! It's a shame all those people have been left to their own devices, who wouldn't loot some food and supply's if faced with starving etc. I would!

Trust a modern government to do the worst job possible - shocking it accounts true.

Best of luck to all who are feeling the after effects of your big one.fnq


think we all know why that is mate and thats because they are still over in iraq
just hope the war machine of GWB has left enoght in the kitty to help all these poor people in what can only be called "mother natuer show she is still boss"
sure makes us all feel small and ant like when something like this happens

DaveSue_Fishos_Two
01-09-2005, 08:06 PM
It is tragic and terrible that so many people are in the situation they are in. Here in Rockhampton, 2 days ago the daily newspaper reported that the mayor of New Orleans had 'ordered' everyone to evacuate. Why didn't they???? Those that couldn't go I do feel sorry for, those that had means to leave but chose to stay..........well that's another matter.

Dave

el_carpo
01-09-2005, 09:57 PM
That's the general sentiment in the country, I think. The ones that couldn't flee you have to feel sorry for. The stories coming out of there are awful. It is just heart breaking. They were too sick, too old, or too poor to get out. Terrible.

The ones who just stayed because they wanted to stay because they figured it wasn't going to be that bad.....well, duhhhhh! Catagory 5 means catagory 5. It was common knowledge that the levies protecting New Orleans could only handle a catagory three hurricane. What were they thinking?! I still feel bad for them but not nearly as bad as the first group.

Now, the last group; the ones who stayed in hopes of doing a little robbing and looting.... >:( >:( >:(. I know where a tall oak tree grows if they need one and I'll supply the rope! It's absolutely disgusting to see these scum breaking into stores and houses to profit off of the worst natural disaster in the nation's history. Dead bodies all over, people (their neighbors!) in desperate need of aid, and all they can think of is to get a new xbox, playstation, or T.V. >:( There isn't much humanity to be found in those mongrels. >:( One looter even murdered a policeman! He shot him in the head in cold blood! >:( The national guard is moving in to try to restore order. They should declare marshal law and that's that. You want to live like a rat, fine, you can die like one too. There is no pity for them. They deserve none.

The army is using blackhawk helicopters to evacuate trapped people. I heard that the folks who were in the Superdome are being bussed to the Astrodome in Houston by bus. There is a hospital ship on its way to the coast and a few navy vessels. Volunteers are using their fishing boats and canoes to get people to safety (Fishermen to the rescue!!!). Tons of rations are on the way by donation and the highways around the affected areas are being kept clear for relief trucks. This is going to take years to get these folks back on their feet.

I don't know what the plan is, but I think that New Orleans and the other cities and towns that were destroyed should be left destroyed. Just salvage what material you can and rebuild in a further inland, HIGHER GROUND location. New Orleans was three feet below sea level. It's right on the coast. That's a recipe for disaster. Let the area revert back to the wetlands they were meant to be. They will act as a buffer and serve as protection for the "new" New Orleans. I think it's a smarter and cheaper option than rebuilding and waiting for it to happen again. You can rebuild the port, but I wouldn't put residential areas there again.

Like Tideline_two said, you can go on and on with information and stories. I just hope that things get sorted out as soon as possible for these folks.

E.C.

el_carpo
01-09-2005, 10:18 PM
Sorry for double post. I just heard on the news that armed men held up a relief truck and that some b@$t@rd shot at a rescue helicpoter trying to evacuate poeple. See what I mean about the looters and criminals? Kill the scum! >:(

Sorry, it just drove me mad to see that. Unbelievable that they'd pull this garbage even at a time like this! >:(

PinHead
02-09-2005, 04:35 AM
I read a news report where they said it could be possible for a world wide recession due to the disruption to the ports and shipping along the Gulf coast...amazing how one storm could cause a world wide recession...seems like someone has not hedged their economy against such a disaster.
I also cannot understand what would bring a person to start looting and armed hijackings in any situation...hell...they are still alive...that has to be a plus after enduring something like that.

tideline_two
02-09-2005, 06:11 AM
update----gas in the southeastern united states is running out! there is no gasoline in charlotte north carolina, atlanta georgia and several other southern cities. the price of gas here in my home town (murrells inlet s.c.) is around $3.50 per gallon. up about $1 per gallon since monday. i've heard some stations in the alanta ga. suburbs are chargeing up to $6 per gallon. i believe its a tempoary thing caused more by panic rather than a inability to deliever gasoline to the stations. the refineries are running at 95% capacity in texas and even though the New orleans refineries are gone the ones in texas and the rest of the country have enough capacity to provide for the entire country.

there is talk about NEVER rebuilding New Orleans by some of the national politicions. the goverment is relocateing the people that lived there to places in texas and arkansaw. new orleans is not the only place thats flooded. there are 6 entire parishes (they have parishes instead of counties there) that are flooded.over 2 million people affected in the area. even the people that evacuated prior to the hurricane are in trouble. they can't return to their homes because their homes are gone. they are running out of money and they have no jobs and no place to go.

the death toll is still unknown. search and rescue personel are finding bodies and marking their location with GPS units. they plan to return when there are places to take care of the bodies.right now there are no places to store them. projected death toll is in the thousands. when the levey broke many people who had stayed behind and survived the storm were trapped in their houses. has the water rose they climbed to their attics to escape the water. many of the houses were only were only 1 story and the flood water rose over the roof. they were drowned. other have been living in the attic and they are dieing from lack of water and heat exaustion.

we'll get it back together sooner or later over here but its bad for those people in the bayou. keep 'em in your thoughts. btw australia is one of the few countries that have offered us aid. france and germany sent us their sympathies.

DICER
02-09-2005, 06:16 AM
Well I flew out of Sacramento and Dallas back to Frankfurt this morning after spending several days in the states. As I was boarding the plane this morning I saw heaps heaps of young soldiers boarding and so I asked the question "So are you being called up for Katrina" and "nope-I wish!!-I'm actually going back to Iraq" came the answer from several on the Sacramento to Dallas sector. Quite a few made remarks like "I'm not in hurry, please go ahead". There were heaps more soldiers being mobilized to go back to Iraq in Dallas as well. What the heck are they doing in the US.

The absolute size and sheer destruction by Katrina being broadcast was just unbelievable. Complete huge buildings blown 100s of metres off their foundations. When the choppers came by day they saw a few people and tried to rescue them. But by night, they had infrared, and there were was litterally hundreds and hundreds or flashlights being shone from the rooftops etc at the helicopters. I feel very sorry for those who have lost everything or someone they love there. How do you know when there is someone trapped in the actic? Or when the battery runs out in their torch?

Some newpapers put the damage bill at 20 billion. I would say 250 billion, at least. Not including the loss of fuel production (21/561 rigs lost; 90% major pipelines shut down). As said earlier - I wouldn't rebuild areas completely devastated. Much like Cancun in Mexico you see the carcasses of many a huge resort. Buildings structurally unsound - better off leaving them as a buffer for the next.

Lets hope no category 4 hits Noosa, Maroochydoore or Mooloohaba!

BTW new regulations have come in for foreigners travelling in to US territory. Electronic photos and finger prints for those entering and leaving. Very, very slow, expecially with a baby!

FNQCairns
02-09-2005, 10:59 AM
It's just starting and boy am I hopping mad! So bloody cranky I am shaking.
The report I just saw on TV show the absolute lack of care given to the stranded population
Whats that long tested saying? "an unfed population is but 48hrs from anarchy!" something like that and one Lady said she had not eaten in 5 days. Hope heads roll at all levels of governance for nothing short of multiple murders. So much could have been done this is not a third world country!
guaranteed if a gerbil held the presidents little toe hostage every means would have been at the gov disposal within the time it takes to scramble a fighter plane.

1st world society has lost the plot big time. 0s and 1s ain't going to fix it this time.

One toddler with his head loling looked to me to be in the last stages of exposure and dehydration, mother was frantic! No chance for the little fellow now.

How morally tenuous have we become. No body knows anything but their jobs today!!
All those kids
God Im spewing >:(

nonibbles
02-09-2005, 01:49 PM
This is just so tragic. Not only the sad event itself, but from where I sit in my comfort I am continually bombarded with media images of so many people waiting for someone to help. People lterally saying what are they going to do.
There is incredible manpower there, and I know these people are going through something horrendous, but if only they can utilise some of that manpower that is in a current state of shock... and refocus their energies because at present the catharsis of some, and the anarchy of others, is equal in its ability to prevent any progress toward order. Just who will lead them. And how long would they last before some idiot shoots them? Geez i hope they find a way to disarm these jerks - they are not helping anyone.
I am sure everybody is trying to desperately find some sense of reason and my heart and prayers go out to them all.

Aside from all this, I find it totally repugnant that those who build their lives upon anti-American sentiments are rejoicing as they see this suffering.

blaze
02-09-2005, 04:37 PM
how the bloody hell can bush tell his people to have paitance at a time like this. He can mass thousands to invade a country quicker than he can help his own, we have the same sorta Pr * ck heading aust
blaze

Dug
02-09-2005, 05:49 PM
Before the Katrina they knew the levee banks were not high enough for a cat 4 or 5 hurricane.

But it was considered too expensive to upgrade them!!

Hell it would have been a lot cheaper than rebuilding a whole city.

I really hate there petty penny pinchers who say we don't have enough money to help people.


PS Where was Bush when the Hurricane struck? On Holiday, yet again.

Bosunsmate
02-09-2005, 06:27 PM
Latest I have read on the net is that the main levee breach has been stemmed and they are now working to get pumps working and the water out........

Also heard upto 22,000 National Guardsmen will be patrolling by Friday with shoot to kill orders in some areas....what has the world come to.....I can understand looting food and water and basic survival requirements but not the rest..........hope they get a good shock everytime they turn the stuff on.

On a brighter note radio just announced that celine Dion has donated US$1.3mil to the rescue and recovery appeal.

DICER
03-09-2005, 01:59 AM
And how many weeks is it going to take to pump that water out? ? ? ? ? ?

They needed the army to be on standby BEFORE the hurricane hit not after - it's just absolutely tragic. Had they had the ambphibious vehicles there, then they could have done a much much better evacuation. With all the interstate bridges out - the only logical way is to have them there. They had more than enough time to be ready.

el_carpo
03-09-2005, 04:16 AM
First, thank you nonibbles for your comment about the Anti-American jerks I've seen spouting off and gloating in the news recently over this tragedy (definately not refering to anyone here by the way just to clarify myself). I saw on the news that our good terrorist friends are saying that this is "a sign that Allah is helping them to destroy us" and blah...blah...blah. >:( You gotta love 'em. >:(

Now, I have received an e mail that was forwarded to me from a woman who knows someone from the area who sent her this. It gives you a good idea what they're going through......

I used to lived in New Orleans. I am absotuley traumatized by this event. I have been trying to get a hold of former piano students, a few successfully via email. Every report I hear, I want to cry and go there to help, but really there is nothing for me to do right now. You all must have heard about the aweful situation and are tuning into stories from the national media. For a more accurate update go the New Orleans based newspaper Times-Picayune web page for updated stories. I've read several and the situation is worse that you can even imagine.

I lived in an area called the Lower Garden District for 4 years and saw unimaginable horrors. Within a couple weeks of moving there I heard my first gunshot which turned out to be a murder on the corner of where I lived. That was just the beginning of the violence I experienced and a small example of the hatred that a select culture of people in New Orleans exhibit on a daily basis. So the looting and the gunfire which has followed this disaster is grotesque but not surprising.

The following is an article from the newspaper down there. After reading it then maybe us "Yankees" can understand that the immediate problem is not food and water. The dire needs are military as innocent people are forced to defend themselves against the inhumane way a very specific culture of people typically act in the "Big Easy".

'Times-Picayune' Blog/Forum Reveals True Horror of Disaster Today

By Greg Mitchell

Published: September 01, 2005 12:25 PM ET updated frequently

NEW YORK While the world, and the media, focus on major developments involving thousands of victims in New Orleans, individual horror stories -- and cries for help -- just get lost. The Times-Picayune in New Orleans, from the onset of the catastrophe, has managed to provide blogs, forums, and bulletin boards for readers to seek help or information. But this morning, the pleadings at one forum turned absolutely chilling.

Here are a few samples from past few hours on Thursday (updated here from the top).

*
1300 Still Trapped at University Hospital

Latest text message from inside the hospital: ''Water dropping. Gunshots. Not safe.''

Through text messages and intermittent cell phone calls I have learned that 1300 patients and staff remain trapped mere blocks from the SuperDome at the University Hospital on Gravier Street. My girlfriend of 15 years is a 3rd OB/GYN resident there.

No power, food or water for 48+ hours.
Many dead are reported in the hospital.
No helipad exists.
No word from the outside world on a rescue or a plan.
The stench is said to be unbearable.
*

My coworker's brother is one of seven doctors who have been left behind at Touro Hospital. His name is Vinroot, I'm sorry, I don't know the first name. He is in a panic--the doctors have barricaded themselves on the seventh floor because armed gunmen are outside threatening them and demanding access to the roof so they can be rescued first. He is desperate. Someone needs to help these people NOW!

*
There are still approximately over 300 Vietnamese people stranded in sewage water up to the necks in many areas gathered at the Mary Queen of VN Church. We've contacted USCG, Red Cross, news media but no help has come out to their way yet. As you all know, Versailles is so far on the eastern edge of New Orleans that by the time any helicopters come that way, they're
already filled with people and have to turn back towards the Superdome to drop people off.

The water is still rising in that area. Many of the people are growing weak and sick from lack of food and water plus the heat. Some of them feel like they probably won't make it for the next day. Please people!!! do what you can to get these people to safe land.

*

There are 7 people trapped in the Gallary Row apartments at 448 Julia Street (corner of Julia and Magazine). They were attacked by armed gang who hijacked their truck and drove it through a locked gate in the parking garage. They are unable to leave the building due to the heavy presence of large, well-organized armed looters. They expect the building to be attacked at any moment.

The trapped people are lightly armed (one shotgun and one pistol) but there are numerous entry points into the apartments. Currently the trapped people are holed up on the roof. Please send help ASAP.

*

PLEASE HELP.
I just got word, I have friends trapped in a wharehouse located at 2716 Royal Street. There is reported gunfire outside.

*
I just talked to my neighbor who stayed behind at Camp and St. Mary. He walked along Jackson St and saw dead bodies everywhere from gun shots. After coming upon two dead girls, probably around 12-15 yr old, he had to get out. Where is the national guard? We need help.

*
Apparently armed thugs have surrounded the Tulane Univ Med Ctr (or hospital). One of the physicians trapped on the roof called his dad (a client of this NJ based law firm) to sound the alarm.

They are on the roof and need a chopper.

*
Does anyone know if Fats Domino is OK? I have been told his house is under water and he is missing.

Perhaps you could initiate a formal check by the boats in the 9th Ward?

*
DESPERATE SECURITY SITUATION IN RIVERBEND.
Spoke to my uncle this morning (Thurs) in Riverbend near Carrolton and St Charles. He and several (elderly) residents are holed up there and the security situation is getting desperate. Heat is extreme and there are roving gangs of looters with guns. The looters have also commandeered a backhoe and are ramming homes. My uncle and the others have no info about the evacuation. While Leake Avenue and River Road are dry, they are afraid to leave as they fear they will be shot, carjacked etc. This is a desperate plea for help as this is so far from downtown. We are trying to call everyone we can but of course the phone doesn't work. If someone official sees this, please send help.


*
Please notify the Coast Guard to search the buildings located on the campus of the University of New Orleans. Mr. Patrick Jolly is trapped in a building with other people and is surrounded by water. We lost contact with Mr. Jolly exactly two days ago. He is diabetic and has a group of people with him. His last conversation with his daughter was that he is surrounded by water due to the levee break and that a young girl was having an asthma attack. If possible, please notify the authorities to search each building on the campus for Mr. Jolly.

*
My mother is Cpl. Delores Paige she works with the New Orleans Sheriff Department. I spoke with her about an hour ago, according to her other deputies, along with the inmates, they were transported and trapped onto the Broad Bridge near the Times Picayune Building, it is also between Tulane and Washington Streets. They have been there for the last four days without any thing to eat or drink. Some officials came to get the inmates, but left the Deputies there standed I am very concerned for my mother because she is a diabetic and she says she has lost every thing. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, Help my mother and the others. She also states that there are people dying all around them. Please send help.

*

I am searching for my grandson his name is Brandon Childs. He is aproxamatly 4 ft. tall. He is 6 years old with blond hair and brown eyes. If anyone knows of his whereabouts please E-Mail *(I deleted this)*
*
I got a call from my sis-in-law, Vicki, just now. There are 3-4 adults with her, one with severe asthma and no medications. They tried to get out by boat yesterday, but then got shot at by looters. Vicki is calling around to see if anyone has any resources to help, and she was hoping someone might have a contact or an idea. If you would kindly forward this to anyone you know that is in or was in the National Guard, military, etc.. They are on the deck of a house waving a red flag between South Claiborne and Willow.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

*

My sister rode out storm in Biloxi. Her 18 yr old head trauma patient/daughter (Alyssa Taylor hit by drunk driver last year) is stuck with her with meds and tube foods running out quickly...Neighbors pooled their gas from mowers to get them out to no avail. They are urgently in need as are many others who cannot communicate out and are NOT receiving aid! My nephew left Georgia with Army with Chinook copters to rescue others in NOLA but he cannot divert to rescue his aunt and cousin...The after-dramas are worse than the storm and help is not reaching in and no one can leave without fuel.

*
Throughout the days of listing to news stories reading articles on the web I have yet to here anyone mention anything about the students at Xavier University. There are at least 400 students trapped in the dormitory with no food or water. From my understanding the police officials did not check to see if there were people still on campus. This article is to inform anyone reading this that these people need help urgently. The girls are on the 5th floor and the boys on the 6th. There pliot is dire and should be attended to as soon as possible.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lots of evil people crammed in a small area under high stress situations and you get hell. I have to agree with those of you who say there was a lack of preparation. Local, state and federal authorities should have had plans and contingency plans to deal with the situation. If anything good can come from this, it has got to be a lesson about emergency evacuation procedures. Maybe we should form another branch of homeland security. A kind of lean, mean, quick response evac, aid supply and security force. Like a national guard without the stupid, sloth-like beaurocracy attached. What if this were a nuke? Say, God forbid, Chicago gets nuked or something? I was just imagining the chaos. They are doing a horrible job of educating us as to what they would like us to do in an event like that. I don't know if we should stay home or skeedattle out of there as fast as we can? The highways would be blocked. There are no instructions or drills being done at all with us citizens. :-/ We know the terrorists want to do it and are trying to do it, we keep hearing it's only a matter of time before they DO do it, and yet they don't say a word about what to do when it is done. :-? So yes, I have to agree with you. The lack of planning is very "annoying." >:(

DICER
03-09-2005, 05:10 AM
From the BBC
Press awe at Katrina aftermath
The scale of the destruction caused by Hurricane Katrina leaves many press commentators outside the US shaking their heads in disbelief. While some focus on the environmental implications, others look at the growing political storm, and its potential impact on President Bush.

Colombia's El Pais
Today, in important areas of the Gulf of Mexico and, in particular, New Orleans there is a terrifying panorama of desolation and millions of human beings who live in the most powerful country in the world are suffering the tragedy of a catastrophe that is difficult to imagine.

Taipei's Taiwan News
New Orleans may go down in history as the first major city in an advanced country to be lost to the process of global warming... We sincerely hope that the Bush administration will take the call from Hurricane Katrina and reconsider its energy and environmental policies and replace ostrich-like escapism with leadership in the global effort to deal with the crisis of global climatic change.

Hong Kong's Ta Kung Pao
This Katrina hurricane is a 'warning' by God over President Bush's reactionary behaviour on the Kyoto Protocol. The US government should wake up from this big disaster, truly take up its responsibilities as a great nation, and become the forerunner in protecting the global climate.

Australia's The Daily Telegraph
Katrina has wrecked not only the physical corporality of civilization. Now there are unmistakable signs in the hurricane's aftermath of the collapse of ordered society. Communication has become virtually impossible. There is no power, no fuel, no food. And looters are at work. This in the United States, the most powerful nation that has ever been.

Israel's Ma'ariv
The American meteorological service provided real-time precise information but the leadership failed in preparing for the anger of the weather...What is scary after Katrina is to see the biggest superpower in the world helpless, even if temporarily.

China's Renmin Wang
This hurricane disaster, while bringing huge harm to human resources and property for the residents of New Orleans, has also provided a rare opportunity for the White House to regain extensive popular support... the losses are far greater than in the 9/11 terrorist attack, therefore 'Katrina' has brought a most arduous test for Bush.

Sweden's Dagens Nyheter
The disaster is obviously a challenge for Bush... like every predecessor, he is thinking of his lasting reputation. And, if you will excuse the expression, he does not want to see that reputation blown apart.

Denmark's Kristeligt Dagblad
Every natural disaster comes in two waves. First the wind and rain arrives, then the political storm.

France's Le Monde
The disaster could become a trump card for the White House if it allows the Iraq war and its opponents to fade into the background.

Germany's Sueddeutsche Zeitung
But if he fails to get a grip on the chaos within a few days, his words could become his undoing.

[b]Germany's Die Tageszeitung
The fast and safe evacuation was white, leaving behind poor black people, as if time had stood still between the racial unrest of the sixties and today.

Prague's Hospodarske Noviny
Not even the monstrous Katrina will drag the USA into recession.

Romania's Gardianul
Bush's desperate efforts to redress the situation did not stop the virulent criticism aimed at his 'indifference'... on the first day of the hurricane [he] was still on holiday.

Spain's ABC
What is certain is that the tragedy has that has razed to the ground the states of Louisiana and Mississippi has shown up the weak flanks of a country which, taken up in the last few years with its imperial adventures, has ignored matters that are much more important for the well-being of its citizens.

Israel's Yediot Aharonot
Scores of 'mini' blunders in the giant American blunder that included loss of control, lack of a chain of command, heavy fog with all that has to do with the distribution of powers and the chatter-stricken elected public figures.

Palestinian Al-Hayat al-Jadidah
We sympathize with the American people in their predicament after Hurricane Katrina. But the real hurricane is the Iraqi resistance that does not target innocent [Americans].

Brazil's O Globo
One of the pillars of the Bush era has been his ability to connect with middle America. Will Bush be thrown a lifeline, thanks to the hurricane? Or, disconnected from his popular support base, will he limp on as a governor that does not govern - the lame duck of American political jargon - until the end of his term?

Australia's The Sydney Morning Herald
Though its death toll is much lower [than the Asian tsunami], in one respect Katrina may be more shocking: the possibility that human activity contributed to the hurricane's strength... Even small changes in temperature can produce disproportionately large weather events.

South Africa's Mercury
There must be truth to the adage that when the United States of America sneezes, the whole world will catch its cold.

El Salvador El Diario de Hoy
It is difficult to make light of one fact: that climate changes are at play, which are causing increasingly violent events... Katrina was just a warning.

coyote3
03-09-2005, 07:11 AM
It is tragic and terrible that so many people are in the situation they are in. Here in Rockhampton, 2 days ago the daily newspaper reported that the mayor of New Orleans had 'ordered' everyone to evacuate. Why didn't they???? Those that couldn't go I do feel sorry for, those that had means to leave but chose to stay..........well that's another matter.

Dave
the people that stayed probably didnt stay because the wanted to. the evac. was poorly organised and the people you see on tv are the poorest. with no transport of thier own and relied on thier gov. to help. but it will make a great movie when hollywood get thier claws into it, with heros every where and thier gov. comming to thier aid..ITS ALL MIRRORS AND SMOKE.

bidkev
03-09-2005, 09:34 AM
What can you say? :'( I am appalled, saddened, angry, and feel immensely insignificant and helpless.

The fact that the most powerful nation on earth had inadequate contingency plans for a disaster just waiting to happen, fills me not only with fear, but with loathing for a totally inept administration that can influence the course of the future for the whole world. I mean, these idiots wield immense power for G**'s sake!

Even as New Orleans was only just beginning to reap the consequences of being built so low, the Administration's spokesmen were saying that the storm had veered off and that the worst was over. It seemed that even *after* the storm hit they had little realisation just what was, or was about to, happen. Or had they?

The doomsday scenario! So much has been written and filmed about it that even the least educated could have foreseen it coming. When they haven't planned for sufficient aid to the helpless, is it simply because of wishful thinking, as so many times before cyclones have "cried wolf" and then veered off or diminished in intensity? Is it simply incompetence? Is it down to GB's fundamentalist Christian ideaology? Did he simply ponder that it may perhaps be "God's will" or is there something more sinister at play here?

Make no bones about it, GB is as fanatical as his Muslim counterparts and unfortunately, there are many more Americans just like him. There is a *huge* swing to the Christain Fundamentalist right and unfortunately that does not bode well for the "poor and oppressed". They are seen as simply bad and immoral and little recognition is given to the facts as to why those people behave as they do and how to overcome it through a strengthening and reforming of society. A tract of Christian American society see the poor as sinners who should be eliminated from society. The (non-white)poor see the rest of America as enemies because little is done to alleviate their suffering and unfortunately the (white) poor are often the last to see the failings of the administration and the first to do the racist's and bigot's dirty work.

The administration knew/knows full well that the lowest lying areas were also the cheapest real estate, and the cheapest real estate is where the poorest people are forced to live. It *knows* that the worst of the cyclone would be experienced by the poor and that the poor would have the least resources to rebuild their lives. It *knew* that a disaster was a racing certainty 12 months before but had decided that there was no mileage to be gained from asking congress for money to help prevent the tragedy. IOW it was politically expedient to hope the problem would simply go away, that they needed all the tax dollars to prop up a failing war and ecoonomy, and to hell with the possible loss of life of "the masses".

Now a cynic would say that this has been an ideal opportunity for GB to either rid himself of some troublesome "heathens", or to detract from the administration's major blunder of the Iraq war. Is it also coincidental that even before the cyclone struck, oil profiteering had begun just as it did prior to the commencement of the iraq war and has continued since?

At the same time as this horrific tragedy occured another thousand poor were being drowned or trampled to death and recieved very little recognition in the media (in comparison). An African holocaust has also lost all recognition by the media and whilst the richest country on earth stumbles and fumbles to help it's own, a continent of starving will be practically ignored.

It is not my intention to denigrate America and I sincerely hope that any American who reads this sees my thinking as "honourable". I fail to see that this disaster is simply down to incompetence, there are too many "brains" at the Whitehouse for this to be so. I write this as a form of "self examintion". My roots lie in Socialism, and yes, I was a communist party member when I was younger. I hope I have "grown up" politically, but my anger at social injustice sometimes haunts me. I see the problems of today, as of the past, as being rich versus poor. Social injustice breeds unrest. Just as in Ulster, the poor Catholic or Protestant became the tool of those who wished to protect their priveliges, so has Muslim youth become the tool of the fanatic who seeks power. It is *not* about religion as so many espouse and believe but about *using* religion to gain privelige.

I'm sorry, I left politics long ago, but this is all too horrible for me to contemplate just sitting back and thinking "what a pity but what can I do"...........not much, but if what I write can make just one person stop and think as to why it is happening, then so much the better.

It *is* appalling regarding what is happening re the rapes looting and murders. It *is* appalling that rescuers are prevented from going about their business, and it is true that some of these people are "evil", but what the good Christian GB should recognise is, "that as ye shall sew, so shall ye reap". What is happening is a direct result of how the American administration throughout history has shaped American society.

The *only* good that I can see coming out of this is that sadly, the nations who refuse to sign the Kyota agreement are also those who are most susceptible to climate change. I hope the buggers get a wake up call, but I doubt it.

I could go on and on as I am so bloody angry and I am so sorry for those poor people. I'll get off my soapbox now and speak no more of it. Sorry

kev

Dug
03-09-2005, 10:51 AM
You have to wonder about "civilization"

After the tsunami people just seemed to pick up and start again. Some looting some violence but nothing on this scale.

It is just so sad and unbelievable except it is so very believable.

el_carpo
03-09-2005, 02:40 PM
Hi again,

I think this is the most interesting thread I've ever read on any forum on the net for as long as I've had access to the internet. You guys are bringing up a lot of good points and it has been quite a learning experience for me. I always like to hear viewpoints from others around the world about my country as well as other topics.

Kingtin, I really want to thank you for expressing yourself so honestly and in a straightforward manner. I like people who don't mince words and "give it to you straight." While I don't agree 100 percent with all that you said, believe me, we're not that far apart on our opinions of things.

Dug, you're right on the money! It IS expected behavior. It absolutely is. Think about it. In my city alone, 500 some odd MURDERS occur annually. That's one city. Just one. American military casualties in Iraq in total are about what? 2,000? Now please don't think I'm trying to minimize their loss. Their families are destroyed. It's aweful. BUT, here we are in the good old USA with nothing to really complain about (we're not sleeping in dust and starving to death like folks in Africa) and what do we do? Murder eachother like dogs in the streets! You're in the wrong place at the wrong time and poof! You're gone! It's so sad man. The moral compass is all out of whack.

And now for something completely different.....

To clarify my views on my country--well, I love it and I hate it....and I don't trust anyone or anything I hear from the media and/or politicians here (and neither should you.) Trust me, no matter what you hear, it comes with alterior motives and meanings. There is virtually nothing said anymore that doesn't come with an agenda hidden or otherwise. It's hard for me to explain American politics ("the game") to foreigners. If you ever get dagger eyes or a seemingly overly hostile reaction from a Yank just for saying something that you believed was completely innocent, it is because EVERYTHING has become politicized and half the country hates the other half. I firmly believe that if 9/11 hadn't occured, we would have had a civil war. No, I'm not kidding. It went away for a while (there was a short break when the rubble was still settling and we were scared s***less and then mad as heck) but it's back. Politicians and the media thrive on hatred and conflict and pour fuel on the fires. That's what is happening here with New Orleans now. They are scanning for angles and are exploiting the old hatreds. Take it all in with a grain of salt folks. You're watching the circus.

The media, the poloticians, the pundits, the radical groups, the gangs, the drug trade, the criminals, the way we don't take care of the mentally ill, the way family is attacked, the way religion is attacked, also religious zealotry, the way our traditions are attacked, the MASSIVE "selling out" of our work force, the destruction of the middle class, the games big corporations play, the rabid over commercialization of everything no matter sacred or inappropriate, the destruction of the environment, the add industry, the failures of society to take care of the poor, the failure to stem illegal immigration, CORRUPTION (Chicago is in the middle of a HUGE investigation. They're all going to jail or quitting.) There are a great many things we get wrong. I hate these things. By the way, I am poor. ;D

What I love about the U.S. is hard to describe. It's in my bones and blood. I know what we are capable of. The sheer GREATNESS of the "ideal America" gives me chills. We will never achieve the "ideal." It is inherently impossible to do so. But the ideas and ideals that my country was founded on are very nearly "heaven-on-earth like". Sounds ridiculous and silly, I know, but it is true. When we broke from England, the world was shaken to its core. It was a massive cataclysmic event that made imperialists quake in fear and changed EVERYTHING forever (well, for a while at least ::) nah, it's different). The democracy. Taken from some of the greatest minds our planet has ever known; the ancient Greeks. Democracy is THE single greatest concept of government that there can be. There is a catch though. You have to have a "good" population. That's where the problems arise. Greed, liars, power-hungry s.o.b.'s, instigators, apathetic, selfish, sloth, evil etc. All can do it in. It takes bravery, vigilence and sacrifice to "keep it clean." Greece fell into decay and fell, now we are falling. We have to right the ship. George Washington was offered a crown and turned it down. He chose the presidency over ruling as a king. Remember that!

Iraq: Deep down, we (most of us) are a very good people. We went to Iraq to build a democracy and "deliver them from evil." I know you are gfawing at this but hear me out. The PEOPLE of the US agreed to go to war to get rid of a tyrant and give the middle-east a chance at something they've never had. A better life and a shot at freedom. PERIOD. The WMD story?, all the other stuff? That was to try to get the U.N. nations to join in on the plan (especially France and Germany.) Those a**h***s were so commercially entwined (illegally) with Saddam and his thug children, they stood to lose billions in oil and arms contracts AND they had plans on becoming the Lords of the E.U. and the best way to do that was to be seen as standing up to the "big, bad U.S." playing on infantile Anti-Americanism of some in Europe. They were protecting their commercial interests and engaged in a full-blown POWER GRAB over the E.U. Proof? Remember their see-through warning/threat to Turkey? We wanted to launch a northern assault from Turkey and France threatens to block Turkey from membership in the E.U. if they had let us. Their motives were not nobile, nor were they honorable. They were self-serving. Sorry, but that's the truth. Were MY government's motives pure as the wind driven snow? Surely you jest. ::) I'm sure oil and war-profits were on their minds as well, BUT, the American PEOPLE went to war for good intentions. You can doubt all you want but you'll be wrong. I live here and know our hearts and minds. WE went to help. Our SOLDIERS went to help.

Thoughts on the Kyoto accord? I'll be brief. Until and unless they include China....no. It's not meant to do anything but cut our economic wings. Until the world is serious about fixing things and stops playing these Anti-American B.S. games, it will just keep rolling along. The environment DOES NEED to be healed. It needs a REAL plan based on "good" motives. France and its numbnutted toady sidekicks are eager to climb into bed with China. They are eager for us to fall. They've lost their souls to their lust for supremecy and they like calling "us" Imperialists. They foster hatred for the U.S. when ever and where ever they can. Makes me laugh and cry and then get really, really P.O.'d. Quick question--Why is France selling China advanced weaponry even though nearly everyone asked them not to? Seems kind of..... >:(

Sorry for the novel. I hope you found it worthwhile. Just trying to give you an idea of one person's from another country's thoughts. Hope you don't hate me now. I'm not very good at expressing myself in writing all the time, but I gave it a try.

E.C. Much more to say about a great many things (the political connection to and of race and religion in America for one---hoo! hoo! HOOO! Talk about novels ;D). I wish I could sit down and talk with some of you. Maybe I could better explain and express myself. My writing (especially the political stuff which I don't like doing at all) isn't the best or the clearest. :-/ Anyway. Interesting stuff being written in this thread.

bidkev
03-09-2005, 03:50 PM
El Carpo, you spoke as I expected you too. The Americans are loyal and patriotic if nothing else, and I say that in a light hearted and friendly manner :)

I served in Malta for 3 yrs in the 60's and had many friends in the American 6th fleet and they would have laid down their lives at the drop of a hat for a buddy, be him pom, black, hispanic or Jewish. I find exactly the same thing in Oz. There is something about the manner of friendship that exists with Australians and Americans that I never experienced (to that extent) in Europe.

What I also experienced though, was the Americans politically naivety. Because they *are* so loyal they were/are sometimes blinded to what their Administration is doing particularly in foreign relations. The "man in the street" is often not quite so much a "free thinker" as a European may be, and if they are, they tend to remain quiet.....their loyalty to the flag seems to over-ride that. Anyone who questions foreign or domestic policy is often in fear of being labelled unpatriotic.

At the moment I am playing "Stand By Me", not by Ben E King but by Cassius Clay. This old 45 which I have transferred to my compter was given to me by one of those good (white) American friends who later died in Vietnam. He worshipped Ali even though (or probably because) Ali had refused to serve

There is no question in my mind that the average American is little different than his/her European counterpart and that the majority act in a noble manner. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that there is no justification for the hatred and vile rhetoric aimed at Americans because of the failures of their administration but their political naivety does need to be addressed.

How Bush ever thought he could bring about democracy (via going to war) in an area that is surrounded by undemocratic states is beyond me. Neither Iran, Syria, nor Saudi Arabia want that to happen as it threatens the fabric of *their* society and I will *never* be convinved that the current administration failed to see this. *Whatever* they attempt to do, will be undermined by the other Arab states and if they saw that (and they should have) then there must be an ulterior motive.

Now, if you really do want to know the reason Bush went to war, consider this as *my* theory. The administration didn't want terrorism on their doorstep so they created an "outpost" that would draw the terrorists fire.........bodybags were preferable to fighting on home soil so they took the battle to the terrorists instead of the terrorists coming to them. What they seemed to have forgotten though is how the bodybags that came home from Vietnam impacted on the American psyche. That is *my* complimentary appraisal of the situation, my uncomplimentary appraisal may well be that it was simply to secure oil for the future.

As for the French and other Europeans. Their response to the Iraq crisis has similarities to the American response to the Suez crisis so I don't think Americans have the right to throw stones..........again, I make the point of meaning this in regard to the Administration. not the man in the street. There have been times in recent history that the Adminstration has spat the dummy, just as France and Germany did over Iraq, and it has led to dire consequences for nations in strife.

It is fresh in everyone's mind as to the double standards when the Administration deals with Israel and Palestine. It is fresh in everyone's mind that there has been no invasion of Zimbabwe and other dictatorships. It is fresh in everyone's mind, the initial lack of the administration's response to the Tsunami, and now it is fresh in everyone's mind that the poor in America are/were abandoned by the administration.

Of course, there will be great movement now to correct this error on home soil as the administration seems to have scored yet another own goal. Irrespective, it has all come too late for those who have lost everything.

There was *plenty* of warning regarding the potential for disaster. There was plenty of time for the city to be *fully* evacuated. For those who didn't want to go, that was their choice, and they chose to suffer the consequences. Those old and sick people on the rooves of the hospitals?....they had no choice. Those hundreds of prisoners huddled on the top tier of their prison?....they had no choice. Those thousands in the dome? They had no choice. If the administration can find the resources to ship them out now, then why wasn't there a contingency plan to do it before the storm hit? Because the administration doesn't really care, that's why, but they better *start* caring buddy, because this has the potential to ignite America just as the race riots have done before.

I am saddened and angry at it all.

kev

el_carpo
03-09-2005, 07:36 PM
I know the reasons why Bush went to war and why America went to war are different. That's what I was trying to say in my post. We know he's from and of big oil and Cheney is from Haliburton. I'm no big supporter of his. It's my country and countrymen I'll fight and die for, not him nor his ilk. We don't trust politicians here, we endure them.

Again, we're not really that far apart in our beliefs. You're last paragraph for example. It's pretty much what I wrote in an earlier post. The lack of proper planning and taking care of what needed to be taken care of is inexcusable. It was completely shameful not to get help in and get the people out that couldn't do so on their own. Ever hear of a bus Governer? President? Mayor? At the very least they should have gotten them out of New Orleans and some of the larger towns. The area effected is way too big to have gotten everyone out but they should have tried.

Now as for the potential race riots. Yes, that's very true. I was speaking to my Dad today and mentioned that very thing. I'm still for shooting the murdering looters though. You have to really to get to the good folks. If riots break out, I'll be for shooting them too. You don't get excused for acting like a feral beast because you can and want to. Sorry.

Yeah, I'm sure I've come across as a "super-patriot" in past posts and that probably led many to believe they know how and who I am. Ya don't. ;D My political views very widely from topic to topic. True story--I was once labeled a communist and a fascist on the same message board in the same day. ;D ;D ;D People are good at labeling eh? ;D That's why I gave up talking politics until just now. ;D I wonder which group I'm being lumped in with by people reading this post now? ;D

We're a couple of grumpy ba****ds who hate and love the world we live in Kingtin. And we catch vermin! ;D I'm partial to catfish myself.

Let's all hope for a better tomorrow.

FNQCairns
03-09-2005, 10:56 PM
"I wonder which group I'm being lumped in with by people reading this post now?"

Dont worry about it, it's a chat board no-ones opinion here is above anyone elses. Bugger the office politics ;).

When Katrina was bearing down we discussed the situation here in this house and I mentioned "lets just see what happens, it will be a good test of just what the USA has become in how they handle the immediate aftermath".
I was also particularly interested because we have become clones of the US here both in our disrespect of human rights and personal freedoms, I would expect even less from our government than yours that is for sure we have much fewer basic individual rights in Australia.
The local council authority here in Cairns keeps the location of the cyclone shelters secret so that people will not go to them if a cyclone struck. The longstanding local know here they are but without being in the know a person would die trying to find them.
I dont expect too much to come of the event over there because they were largely poor people and are therefore expendable. Will be interesting to see where it all ends up thats for sure. fnq

DICER
03-09-2005, 11:03 PM
FNQ - I hope the leadership is doing the right thing. A failure in communication or loss of personel could lead to the shelters not being fully utilized in the event a category 4-5 cyclone hit! That would make people sorry.

el_carpo
04-09-2005, 03:40 AM
Here's one! Dug, remember you mentioned how fast our "civilized" society broke down? Have a look at this video clip. "Clean-up in Isle three!" ;D


http://www.zippyvideos.com/8911023771013466/countdown-looting-in-walmart

DICER
04-09-2005, 06:41 AM
By the way things are going it looks to be a heavy death toll - my estimated would a couple to several thousand

Army engineers estimated Friday that it will take 36 to 80 days to drain New Orleans

Dug
04-09-2005, 09:20 AM
All I can say is, Amen to you both, El Carpo and Kingtin.

What class do you get lumped in El carpo "Human" sub species "human who cares"

I think it was Dickens who said "these were the best of times, these were the worst of times"

Thanks to Ausfish moderators too for letting us run with this one, a lot of us needed to get stuff off our chests.