Are we prepared for a hurricane katrina ?

[Barrymundi]

I watched the news last night and I was completely shocked with the devastation from the Hurricane and the suffering of the people in the area.

The good wife and I discussed our inadequate planning for cyclones.

The first year up in Townsville we had everything prepared, nine years down the track we don’t prepare as well. Complacency = stupidity

This year I will be making sure I have enough food, water and fuel to last us a couple of weeks.

A similar devastating storm can hit us in Australia,


Al

[Dug]

We live near a canal in Maroochydore we have a "BUG OUT" plan in place and a back up plan as well.

Anything like this coming down the coast it is get in the cars hook up the boat grab the elderly neighbors and head to a relatives place in the hills.

As the rules of combat state "No battle plan ever survives contact with the enemy" No plan is fool proof but it is better than no plan at all.

You wonder if society would break down as quickly in Australia?

I know areas where it would but I think most people would still stick together. I like to think so anyway.

[basserman]

dug i think you are right
we are truly the lucky country (lucky that not everyone owns a gun) i would like to think that as it is the australian way we would pitch in and help each other out like we normaly do (like tracy) and by doing so may not fall into how thay are over there with people getting shot and looting becomeing so bad where orders need to be thought about shoot to kill

i belive that we are prepared for a cat5 although we may not have much left i think the thing a cylone can never take away from australian is the mateship and shareing we all do
god know i would give the shirt off me back to help someone in need ;)

[Needmorerum]

we are truly the lucky country (lucky that not everyone owns a gun)

What's that got to do with it

[basserman]

haven't you heard about the shootings and all the armed robbing going on as well as the looting???
read the posts EC has been putting up ;)

http://www.ausfish.com.au/cgi-ausfish/yabb2/YaBB.cgi?num=1125433758/10#10
[quote author=el_carpo link=1125433758/20#20 date=1125684965]First, thank you nonibbles for your comment about the Anti-American jerks I've seen spouting off and gloating in the news recently over this tragedy (definately not refering to anyone here by the way just to clarify myself). I saw on the news that our good terrorist friends are saying that this is "a sign that Allah is helping them to destroy us" and blah...blah...blah. >:( You gotta love 'em. >:(

Now, I have received an e mail that was forwarded to me from a woman who knows someone from the area who sent her this. It gives you a good idea what they're going through......

I used to lived in New Orleans. I am absotuley traumatized by this event. I have been trying to get a hold of former piano students, a few successfully via email. Every report I hear, I want to cry and go there to help, but really there is nothing for me to do right now. You all must have heard about the aweful situation and are tuning into stories from the national media. For a more accurate update go the New Orleans based newspaper Times-Picayune web page for updated stories. I've read several and the situation is worse that you can even imagine.

I lived in an area called the Lower Garden District for 4 years and saw unimaginable horrors. Within a couple weeks of moving there I heard my first gunshot which turned out to be a murder on the corner of where I lived. That was just the beginning of the violence I experienced and a small example of the hatred that a select culture of people in New Orleans exhibit on a daily basis. So the looting and the gunfire which has followed this disaster is grotesque but not surprising.

The following is an article from the newspaper down there. After reading it then maybe us "Yankees" can understand that the immediate problem is not food and water. The dire needs are military as innocent people are forced to defend themselves against the inhumane way a very specific culture of people typically act in the "Big Easy".

'Times-Picayune' Blog/Forum Reveals True Horror of Disaster Today

By Greg Mitchell

Published: September 01, 2005 12:25 PM ET updated frequently

NEW YORK While the world, and the media, focus on major developments involving thousands of victims in New Orleans, individual horror stories -- and cries for help -- just get lost. The Times-Picayune in New Orleans, from the onset of the catastrophe, has managed to provide blogs, forums, and bulletin boards for readers to seek help or information. But this morning, the pleadings at one forum turned absolutely chilling.

Here are a few samples from past few hours on Thursday (updated here from the top).

*
1300 Still Trapped at University Hospital

Latest text message from inside the hospital: ''Water dropping. Gunshots. Not safe.''

Through text messages and intermittent cell phone calls I have learned that 1300 patients and staff remain trapped mere blocks from the SuperDome at the University Hospital on Gravier Street. My girlfriend of 15 years is a 3rd OB/GYN resident there.

No power, food or water for 48+ hours.
Many dead are reported in the hospital.
No helipad exists.
No word from the outside world on a rescue or a plan.
The stench is said to be unbearable.
*

My coworker's brother is one of seven doctors who have been left behind at Touro Hospital. His name is Vinroot, I'm sorry, I don't know the first name. He is in a panic--the doctors have barricaded themselves on the seventh floor because armed gunmen are outside threatening them and demanding access to the roof so they can be rescued first. He is desperate. Someone needs to help these people NOW!

*
There are still approximately over 300 Vietnamese people stranded in sewage water up to the necks in many areas gathered at the Mary Queen of VN Church. We've contacted USCG, Red Cross, news media but no help has come out to their way yet. As you all know, Versailles is so far on the eastern edge of New Orleans that by the time any helicopters come that way, they're
already filled with people and have to turn back towards the Superdome to drop people off.

The water is still rising in that area. Many of the people are growing weak and sick from lack of food and water plus the heat. Some of them feel like they probably won't make it for the next day. Please people!!! do what you can to get these people to safe land.

*

There are 7 people trapped in the Gallary Row apartments at 448 Julia Street (corner of Julia and Magazine). They were attacked by armed gang who hijacked their truck and drove it through a locked gate in the parking garage. They are unable to leave the building due to the heavy presence of large, well-organized armed looters. They expect the building to be attacked at any moment.

The trapped people are lightly armed (one shotgun and one pistol) but there are numerous entry points into the apartments. Currently the trapped people are holed up on the roof. Please send help ASAP.

*

PLEASE HELP.
I just got word, I have friends trapped in a wharehouse located at 2716 Royal Street. There is reported gunfire outside.

*
I just talked to my neighbor who stayed behind at Camp and St. Mary. He walked along Jackson St and saw dead bodies everywhere from gun shots. After coming upon two dead girls, probably around 12-15 yr old, he had to get out. Where is the national guard? We need help.

*
Apparently armed thugs have surrounded the Tulane Univ Med Ctr (or hospital). One of the physicians trapped on the roof called his dad (a client of this NJ based law firm) to sound the alarm.

They are on the roof and need a chopper.

*
Does anyone know if Fats Domino is OK? I have been told his house is under water and he is missing.

Perhaps you could initiate a formal check by the boats in the 9th Ward?

*
DESPERATE SECURITY SITUATION IN RIVERBEND.
Spoke to my uncle this morning (Thurs) in Riverbend near Carrolton and St Charles. He and several (elderly) residents are holed up there and the security situation is getting desperate. Heat is extreme and there are roving gangs of looters with guns. The looters have also commandeered a backhoe and are ramming homes. My uncle and the others have no info about the evacuation. While Leake Avenue and River Road are dry, they are afraid to leave as they fear they will be shot, carjacked etc. This is a desperate plea for help as this is so far from downtown. We are trying to call everyone we can but of course the phone doesn't work. If someone official sees this, please send help.


*
Please notify the Coast Guard to search the buildings located on the campus of the University of New Orleans. Mr. Patrick Jolly is trapped in a building with other people and is surrounded by water. We lost contact with Mr. Jolly exactly two days ago. He is diabetic and has a group of people with him. His last conversation with his daughter was that he is surrounded by water due to the levee break and that a young girl was having an asthma attack. If possible, please notify the authorities to search each building on the campus for Mr. Jolly.

*
My mother is Cpl. Delores Paige she works with the New Orleans Sheriff Department. I spoke with her about an hour ago, according to her other deputies, along with the inmates, they were transported and trapped onto the Broad Bridge near the Times Picayune Building, it is also between Tulane and Washington Streets. They have been there for the last four days without any thing to eat or drink. Some officials came to get the inmates, but left the Deputies there standed I am very concerned for my mother because she is a diabetic and she says she has lost every thing. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, Help my mother and the others. She also states that there are people dying all around them. Please send help.

*

I am searching for my grandson his name is Brandon Childs. He is aproxamatly 4 ft. tall. He is 6 years old with blond hair and brown eyes. If anyone knows of his whereabouts please E-Mail *(I deleted this)*
*
I got a call from my sis-in-law, Vicki, just now. There are 3-4 adults with her, one with severe asthma and no medications. They tried to get out by boat yesterday, but then got shot at by looters. Vicki is calling around to see if anyone has any resources to help, and she was hoping someone might have a contact or an idea. If you would kindly forward this to anyone you know that is in or was in the National Guard, military, etc.. They are on the deck of a house waving a red flag between South Claiborne and Willow.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

*

My sister rode out storm in Biloxi. Her 18 yr old head trauma patient/daughter (Alyssa Taylor hit by drunk driver last year) is stuck with her with meds and tube foods running out quickly...Neighbors pooled their gas from mowers to get them out to no avail. They are urgently in need as are many others who cannot communicate out and are NOT receiving aid! My nephew left Georgia with Army with Chinook copters to rescue others in NOLA but he cannot divert to rescue his aunt and cousin...The after-dramas are worse than the storm and help is not reaching in and no one can leave without fuel.

*
Throughout the days of listing to news stories reading articles on the web I have yet to here anyone mention anything about the students at Xavier University. There are at least 400 students trapped in the dormitory with no food or water. From my understanding the police officials did not check to see if there were people still on campus. This article is to inform anyone reading this that these people need help urgently. The girls are on the 5th floor and the boys on the 6th. There pliot is di

[dugong]

i doubt that we are prepared for such an event, just look at all the panick shopping that happens at the last minute when a cyclone is immenent.
how many ppl would be willing to leave sooner rather than later?
how many ppl know if they are in a cyclone flood surge area?
where is it safe to evacuate to?
will any cyclone shelters in your area stand a cat 4/5 cyclone?
any major population centre that is hit by such a cyclone will look just like darwin did or new orleans is.

[chemmy]

It is sad how when there was the tsunami devastation there was no looting going on but in the all mighty land of the free and home of the brave US of A people start looting I recon the one who are looting should be put in jail for a long time (live sounds good to me) as if it's not hard enough for the residents to settle into the idea that they have no where to live now the poor buggers have to worry about looters with guns. It's not eve food or other supplies that they are stealing that would be understandable, but the greedy little f#ckers are stealing jewellery.

Shame on America I say SHAME. >:( >:( >:(

[The_Walrus]

The situation with looting and roving gangs probably needs fixing before aid can come through safely. Get the national guards and army in there with "shoot to kill".

Apart from all the misery :'(, it highlights the folly of building major urban centres in low lying areas.

We haven't had a cyclone come down the Qld coast for a long time. What happens if the first one do so is a "Tracy".

Luc

[bungie]

My new neighbour moved in today from the USA. They moved out of the US because the school his two under 10 kids went to had a shooting were two other kids were shot dead ............ primary school sheeeeesh

[DICER]

I think about the Darwin evacuations after Tracy - I think that was one of the best responses to the shear and absolute destruction of a category 5 in a city ever.

Tracy certainly changed our building practices and gave us an idea of how to respond. But that was 21 years ago, and people on the east coast don't always build to cyclone standards.

The question is have we fallen into complacency - "she'll be right mate"? Do we have what it takes to be prepared, evacuate and cleanup? ? ? ?

[The_Walrus]

Have to agree with you Dicer especially along the east coast.

The last big flood event in Brisbane was in the early seventies. With all the development since, who knows how far the water came in their area?

Luc

[straddie]

Luc I can remember going for a drive around some the southern bayside after the 74 floods with my brother after the water receded a bit. Saw lotsa water still around areas of lindum/wynwest through hemmant, mad mile, tingalpa, wyn west, manly west.

There are a lot of those places that have houses on them now and don't show as having been in the flooded areas on maps. For a rough rule of thumb if tea trees are growing there...

74 was a lot smaller than one in the 50's and a few before that. We are over due for a cyclone here and I don't think it will be pretty when it comes.

[DICER]

Yeah, I think we are overdue for a big one. Perhaps one that will remold the gold coast or Maroochydore.

It certainly has been an extremely busy year for storms and hurricanes in the Atlantic/US. That doesn't mean it will be a busy one here in Australia the next year. As each year goes by without a significant cyclone I think builders, new builders, will have less connection with the idea.

On another note, it has been many years since I was an SES volunteer, but my general impression is that numbers have dwindled in recent years.

Just as we ask the question about whether we are prepared in terms of infrastructure - are we prepared for a leadership breakdown? Can smaller groups work autonomously enough in such a situation?

[The_Walrus]

I think it will all depend on the area affected. If a single town cops a pasting (say Darwin size) in some ways it's easier to deal with than having to deal with a large area of a heavily populated metro area like Brisbane.

When we bought our house in 79, I made certain to get hold of the 74 flood maps for the area. Mind you that is'nt to say where safe! When you live on the coastal plains you really can't consider yourself totally safe when it come to cyclones & rain. :P

Granted the USA has received a pasting recently, but is the weather situation changes (el nino) our east and northern coasts could be in for a working over.

Just imagine Noosa Heads with a cyclone coming down the coast past Fraser island!!!

Luc

[JewseeTHAT]

After 20 yrs in emergency services, SES and fire service, all I can say is if you think that our governments would handle things any better you need a serious reappraisal of your expectations. In seppo terminology, what is happening over there is a classic snafu. (situation normal, all effed up). The only people you can rely on in a situation like that is you and your own preparedness. Government has the resources, and eventually they will come into play, but as we're seeing they take a long time to get moving. In any large scale emergency we'll be in exactly the same boat. (The prickly one, in the smelly creek with the paddle someone managed to put on the plane to who knows where).

[gobbo]

Before becoming a full time fisherman I was for a time on Counter Disaster Committee in Mackay NQ. If you live in any coastal North Queensland community then I guarantee that you are at risk from severe flooding asociated with any strong cyclone Cat 4 or 5.
The predicted surge height varies from place to place but is between 4 and 5 metre in most places ABOVE the existing tidal height. Most cyclones in my experience seem to occur around king tide times. Add 5 metres to king tide level, add wave and swell height on top of that, and most beach fron houses will be submerged or up to first floor level.
The maps showing detailed contours above sea level and predicted tidal surge heights are rarely published. If you can get a look at them they will frighten you.
I am reasonably familiar with Mackay, Townsville and Cairns and guess that a fair amount of the business districts of all three and most of the beach suburbs would be well submerged.
Most building insurance doesn't cover flooding from tidal surges.
I'd rather be living on a boat although most of the posts which locate the marina moorings would also be under water!

[fnqbunyip]

No as a whole I dont think we are ready .

however living on the river we as a family are ready to GO ever season .
We have 2 diferant "KITS" one for a water evak in our boat or boats & a second smaller, lighter helicopter evak kit {just our papers and the hard drive out of the computer }

I dont think I'd be hanging on a mooring in the marina by the time the surge
was on its way....

Cheers fnqbunyip

[Dug]

I often wonder why the government does not offer tax cuts to those who serve in organizations like SES, Coast Guard, Rural Fire Brigade, etc?

They would seem to be a LOT more deserving of tax breaks than the rich.

Maybe I'm just a Pinko leftie.

[DICER]

You'd think they would do something to encourage people to join the SES, Coast Guard, Rural Fire Brigade, etc. But for many it is just "volunteer" ....(BTW what's Pinko Dug? )

Katrina hit New Orleans and surrounding areas - population, 500 000+outlying areas. They evacuated ~440 000 and the damage bill estimate now stands at around 150 billion (US dollars).

I don't think that there would be a tax break for volunteers if there was a category 4-5?.

[tideline_two]

being prepared for a cyclone or hurricane has we call them here in the states always remember one thing....... the goverment aint who you need to look to...look to yourself! you need to take care of you! i watched the inept goverment call for evacuations about 12 hours after my dumb arse was screaming at the t.v. screen asking why do they make people leave !!!!!!!!!!!
i watch has the people marched into the superdome for refuge carring NOTHING ...NOTHING...not a empty milk jug of drinking water not the first tin of food NOTHING.....anticipateing the goverment to take care of them. only fools would think that they don't need to take care of themselves.

everyone know someone. yall notice how many cars are flooded in new orleans? just left there. didn't move . why ? cause they thought they would be taken care of!!!!!!!! i'm not talking about people who were incapable of takeing care of themselves ,the infirmthe handicapted,the elderly what i'm talking about is the healthy just don't give a sh$t type that only believe they are owed something.

i mean they had 3 days warning of the storm.......175 mph winds. storm surge 25 to 30 feet possible..... hey guess what LEAVE.

sorry to rant but out american way has always been TAKE CARE OR YOURSLF AND YOURS not wit for the govenment to do it for ya.

[el_carpo]

Exactly! The ones who CHOSE to stay and then on top of THAT, didn't make ANY preparations?!---real hard to feel too sorry for them.

We've all heard the story of the grasshopper and the ant. Looks like we had a bigger population of grasshoppers.

Did you see where some were throwing BBQ and beer parties after the storm to celebrate the storm missing them? The next thing they knew, the levies broke and the floods swept through, trashing the city. I don't think people took mother nature seriously enough and it cost them (and the rest of the country) big time.

Again, it's the the ones who stayed because they WANTED to that I have a problem with. The ones that COULDN'T leave?, the inept governments and their neighbors failed them and us. They should have had a giant fleet of busses, ambulances, and police and guard vehicles (every one in the state!) ready to evacuate them. Have the city and state police and guard go all out to locate them and get them outta there. Three days was plenty of time to do that. Plenty. They failed. Also, herding them into the Superdome without first stocking it with sufficient supplies and security..... very stupid. That governor and mayor should never sit in a chair of authority again. Criminal dereliction of duty. Criminal! At the federal level.....I blame every president and congressman since the Louisiana Purchase for not fortifying the levies and city. New Orleans is (was! >:() our countries biggest port. How could they NOT fortify the he** out of it? They all knew how important it was to our economic security... So stupid! So, so, so stupid!

"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

I agree with you tideline_two. As a matter of fact, I believe it was a MANDATORY evacuation order wasn't it? Yeah, the ones who CHOSE to stay really haven't the right to cry foul now. I'm afraid the "American way", for too many, is changing into crying foul and to not take responsibility for your own actions and decisions. It's always someone else's fault! >:(

E.C.