VMR rescues, who should pay?

[SgBFish]

The whole thing of the Mackay jet skier raises again the issue of how the service is funded. If the VMR services where allowed to bill for their services there would be less emergency rescues. The Government is also shirking its responsibilty here. Some of the enormous registration levies collected should go the funding VMR services.

It astonds me that some people rescued don't give any donation at all to the recusers.

Also there needs to be a fine for non emergency EPIRB activations. Although in the Mackay case it was an emergency.
Presently the individual VMR services are at financial breaking point. Most rescues are for fuel or lack of maintence. Both are due to lack of due diligence on the skippers part.
There is the old addage that the vessels skipper must take responsibilty for the safety of all on board as well as those who may need to rescue them.
I am yet ot need the services of the VMR and after 35 years on the water thats probably partly luck but some people leave no margin for error or redundacy in their equipment.
Cheers,
Scott

[Argle]

I am yet to require the services of the VMR (touch wood) but I always make sure to donate at the shops/boat shows etc when they are collecting. If I was to require assistance I would have no qualms in making a substantial donation to this fantastic service. Problem is some people see it as a right not a privilige to have these exceptional people to look out for us all. It would be nice to see some more input $wise from the Government too.


Cheers & Beers

[Heath]

If you're not a paid up member then you should pay.

[Gazza]

Heath, i don't believe anybody purposefully attempts to "need" to be rescued :-?

I also wouldn't like to be asked "please give us your Amex details" , before we can authorise a rescue :-?

"Most people" imo if it was e.g. $14,000 .....would say don't bother ,can't afford ,i'll risk it.....and definitely may die doing so.

As the bill seemed to be about $1600 ,and i wouldn't have a clue how it was worked out ,but that $1600 should then be an enforceable debt, given the circumstances.

[Louis]

The Government spends money and indeed wastes money on every trivial thing going and yet for some reason fails to provide the monies necessary to run this very valuable service.

I personally believe that this is one organisation that is definetely deserving of money. #Especially when you consider the vast amounts of revenue the government collects from Boaties and Fishermen.


Louis

[thumps]

As the bill seemed to be about $1600 ,and i wouldn't have a clue how it was worked out ,but that $1600 should then be an enforceable debt, given the circumstances.
[/quote]


A $1600 bill will be sent to the Mackay man rescued on Sunday after he went fishing on his jet ski 28km offshore. That’s a small part of the estimated $14,000 it cost to get James Evans, 32, of North Mackay, home on Sunday.

‘‘They haven’t sent me a bill yet, but I will pay,’’ Mr Evans said yesterday.

The $1600 fuel account will be sent by Mackay’s Volunteer Marine Rescue (VMR) which spent 52 man hours finding Mr Evans and getting him and the $20,000 jet ski back to Mackay.

The rescue also involved the RACQ-CQ Rescue chopper heading out twice, at a cost of $5240 for the first trip and $6520 for the second.

[fish2eat]

There should be a situation similar to the Ambulance Levy

You used to have a choice about joining the ambulance.......if you needed it and weren't a member you paid full rate. Now everybody is covered

A portion of the registration fees should be a levy that is used to fund these great organisations....isn't that a sensible way to spread the cost

There are 200,000 registered craft in Queensland.....at $20 per vessel that would provide $4 million for annual funding on top of their own fundraising activities. :)

[Louis]

Just a thought.

Perhaps the Government should also provide the services of the Water Police to assist the VMR and the Coastguard when they are busy.



Louis

[Louis]

Just a thought.

Perhaps the Government should also provide the services of the Water Police to assist the VMR and the Coastguard when they are busy.



Louis

[Heath]

Heath, i don't believe anybody purposefully attempts to "need" to be rescued :-?

Can't see where I eluded to that?




As the bill seemed to be about $1600 ,and i wouldn't have a clue how it was worked out ,but that $1600 should then be an enforceable debt, given the circumstances.


So we agree then :)

[gogecko]

Im a paid up VMR member and I support all rescue services. I think rescue is rescue and even dumb mugs shouldnt have to pay for a rescue. Most of us have the common sense and gratitude to make a healty donation anyway.

However something neds to be done about the second rescue of this guy within 24hrs. I reckon Mackay VMR will be sitting down to a commitee meeting saying 'what can we do to reduce the incidence of NEEDLESS second rescues?' Surely they must regret refulling the guy. If they had have offered towing only, then they wouldnt have had to risk thier lives and wasted helicopter fuel a second time.

Please dont think Im running down the excellent volunteers. I reckon they would agree with me, given hindsight.

regards
Andrew

[thumps]

gogecko


totally agree on your point about the second rescue


also the VMR boat was damaged after they pulled his PWC onboard.

i see there is no reimbursement for this.

[Darryl]

Yes i do agree with you Andrew your spot on about the second rescue.

I was in Fire and Rescue up in North Queensland and had some pretty stupid call outs for some bizarre reasons. I also know that my ambulance friends are called out for some silly reasons with some people even dialing 000 for sunburn.

I spose there is two sides of this IMO. I am back on an island now that is in Fire and Rescue's terms urban /rural and will be joining the Rural Fire Service i once headed up. Now just from where i stand call outs are a rush , when the pagers go off and your on a rescue/fire scene there is nothing like it. It serve's as a valuable training #for new comers as well. I reckon this could be the same with the VMR organisations as well. Gotta admit that if i had time to be in one there would be nothing like going out in a 36 cat and helping people. In other words you join the Fire Brigade to be in one of the big reds screaming off to a fire.

So in my opinion most of the VMR people want to be there to get in that boat and do what they are trained to do. Just my opinion. Of course you are going to have people that are experts in communication as such and dont go in the boats. But they are there because they like doing it.

But on the other side as people have said , you get wankers like this bloke who have to be rescued twice. No doubt about it he should be charged and probably will. Unfortunately this happens in every rescue service #and unfortunately it's the tax payer paying for it.

Darryl. #

[bidkev]

I'm gonna be honest here and first admit that I'm not a paid up member of VMR. No reason other than plain idleness and losing the form on two occasions when I genuinely intended to join. I will, just as soon as I lay my hands on another form. Recent events have shown me the wisdom of this. (Like watching two guys on tuesday trying to get their grounded tinny off the NE corner of mud...was gonna tow 'em off but they eventually manged it themselves).

OTOH, I always buy heaps of raffle tickets from the VMR so I suppose I contribute in some small way.

It's my (humble) ;D opinion that membership should be compulsory. If the gov't grants VMR some money then they'll only nick it from somewhere else like ramp building or the like. If the fee was attached to all registration certs then *everyone* who registers a boat would be contributing. If *everyone* had to pay, then the fee would be considerably less than it is now. Let's face it, those who don't contribute are getting a free ride at the expense of those that do.

The problem that could arise is that the gov't may decide to incorporate the fee into the registration and slice off a piece of the action for itself without giving the VMR the whole total collected.

kev

[sf17fisherman]

If you're not a paid up member then you should pay.

i guess the tricky part come when you have a member that is from another VMR group (like out of state)
should they then have to pay even though in thier group they are members?
not sure that would be the best way to go about it




The Government spends money and indeed wastes money on every trivial thing going and yet for some reason fails to provide the monies necessary to run this very valuable service.

I personally believe that this is one organisation that is definetely deserving of money. Especially when you consider the vast amounts of revenue the government collects from Boaties and Fishermen.
Louis

now this is a better way and no sout the millons of dollars waisted on worthless goverment grants and lunch meeting would be way better off helping things like this


Im a paid up VMR member and I support all rescue services. I think rescue is rescue and even dumb mugs shouldnt have to pay for a rescue. Most of us have the common sense and gratitude to make a healty donation anyway.

However something neds to be done about the second rescue of this guy within 24hrs. I reckon Mackay VMR will be sitting down to a commitee meeting saying 'what can we do to reduce the incidence of NEEDLESS second rescues?' Surely they must regret refulling the guy. If they had have offered towing only, then they wouldnt have had to risk thier lives and wasted helicopter fuel a second time.

Please dont think Im running down the excellent volunteers. I reckon they would agree with me, given hindsight.

regards
Andrew

this seems to be the worst part of this
not the fact that he had to be rescued or that he was on a jetski or even that the duckboard was cracked by the weight of the ski but the fact that they first helped him out with fule and then had to go out later to bring him back in

yep i'm all for a tow home oppoesed to some fule or if conditions are that they can't tow a refule with a escort back home

also agree that they should have to bill for a rescue however a donation should always be made
what i am saying is that not all of us could affored to pay a $2000 bill for a rescue even though we donate and pay double the joining fee to the vmr's and thats why the current system is great where a donation should be made of as much as you can afford but the goverment sure does need to come to this party :)

[Heath]

I liken it to RACQ road service.

You are a member so you get benifits. Your not a member, you pay.
This is in regards to the VMR involvement.


I'll make my thoughts on this particular instance clearer, in that the fool on the jetski should be hit with the full cost. Simply, he did not show due diligence & common sence.
Obviously there are occasssions where rescue is required due to mechanical or health problems. These sorts of things obviously are unforseeable and should be covered by the government some how. A health issue would be covered by ambulance cover. Mechanical........ well I just don't know. :-?

[Darryl]

I agree with heath that it should be the same as RACQ if VMR is called out to refuel some imbecile , especially in big seas. It not only has him at risk but the men/women going to rescue him.

Say for arguement sake the rescuer's went missing , rolled the cat etc etc. How would peeps see it then. I mean picture it in the paper, 5 women are now widows after a man set off his EPIRB wanting fuel.( I know that's stretched but papers do that) ;)

Unless of course it is life threatening. Then it's up to the rescue peep's. I mean that's what there for.

[DaneCross]

Simple, user pays. I don't understand why anyone would expect it any other way. If you're worried about the $120/hr operational fee then become a member. VMRs in SE Qld now have a 'Gold Membership' option where you can join your local VMR, pay a little extra to upgrade to Gold and you're then covered by:

VMR Bribie Island
VMR Brisbane (Sandgate)
VMR North Stradbroke
VMR Raby Bay
VMR Victoria Point
VMR Jacobs Well
VMR Southport

There's more info here http://www.vmr.org.au/watersideassist.html and here http://www.vmr400.com/ (click the Join Now link).

I've done a bit of work in recent times for VMR Jacobs Well assisting them in securing funding for some much-needed resources. In fact only yesterday was I able to tell them they had been successful in receiving $27,990 from the Gambling Community Benefit Fund. Apart from the occasional 'Lotto win', as is the case with grants, these guys spend hours upon hours of their own time gathering donations from the public and I can tell you, they need it. They have to fund running costs inc fuel and maintenance, equipment costs, they even have to fund the purchase of new motors and new vessels!

I too am at a loss as to why the Government doesn't throw their weight behind VMR but until that day comes, become a member, support the VMR and if you don't, don't whinge when you have to foot the bill.

DC

[borisdog]

Came upon this one a bit late but to make some comments from the intial post and others following.
1. There IS a penalty for setting off ANY DISTRESS SIGNAL in anything other than a genuine distress situation. There are about 14 or 15 internationally recognised distress signals - EPIRB is just one of them, flares are another for example.
2. Any vessel or base station which detects any emergency signal IS OBLIGED by maritime law to render any and all assistance within their power to do so. This eliminates the argument of "You're not a member - we're not helping you".
It sure is amazing that people will not contribute to their rescue, I see in the case mentioned that the guy's willing to ante-up. Rightly so. I don't know if he's in the minority or not but in the case of having to go back and get them twice then surely we're getting to the area of criminal charges. I'm sure any Water Police etc out there can nomiate some relevant charges. There's heaps of gooses out there on the water. Look at Tony Bullimore and that French Sheila whose name escapes me now. Both of them were bailed out of deep poop by the RAN twice at a cost of serious bucks to us. Once is bad luck (sometimes). Twice is a pattern.

[juicyfruit]

As this topic has been spread around a little (Jetskier rescued TWICE in 24hrs and $1600 Bill for Rescued Jet Skier) I will post this here and hope it trickles down into the other threads *shrug*


http://www.abc.net.au/tropic/stories/s970763.htm

I guess, as a Mackay local, and one that had her pay voluntarily deducted to support the Mackay RACQ-CQ Rescue helicopter for many years, someone who organised and supported many events to raise money for RACQ-CQ Rescue helicopter and also knowing one of the lads that was in the crash a few years back, a 'mothering instinct' has kicked in.

To see any rescue services in action, the natural thought for me is, "I hope everything is ok and everyone makes it back in one piece"

To see any rescue services called out, due to plain stupidity, dampens my faith in mankind.

To see any rescue services responding, for that same person with-in 24 hours, makes me bloody angry.

Apart from the cost to run and maintain these great rescue services, there are other SOULS involved. The souls of the rescuers, which have no monitory value, rescuers that have family and love ones as too do the people they rescue.

Each rescue attended, no matter how big or small, the rescuers (and some at base) are risking their lives.

Each day that the rescue service isn’t available is a day that a rescue can’t be attended.

To have this irreplaceable service at our disposal should not be abused and whole heartedly supported, by any means we can.

To continually debate over a man being stupid or not and what vessel he was using etc, seems to be a wasted effort that can be better channelled into supporting a rescue service and learning from others mistakes.

As for the theory that the paper is sensationalising the whole event to sell papers and maybe misquoting the man in the progress……. if this rescue went wrong, on its first or second rescue attempt of the same man, and the rescuers lost their lives (heaven forbid)…. would the man be even speaking to the newspapers, I believe not.

Cheers

Juicy

*step off her high soapbox and trips face first into a pile of doggy doo-doo*

[Darryl]

I hate landing in doo doo. :o :D

[AnthonyL]

I think you should pay something if you are rescued... at the least become a member and pay your way.

I like the idea of similar to the ambulance levy.. wouldnt be much with each boat rego.

[juicyfruit]

It all seems fair to pay the ambulance levy through our energy supplier, but the problem with that, for me is this.......I pay it 3 times, as I have 3 places with an electricity supply........I don’t mind paying a levy once....Oh the response to that from Ergon is basically 'suck eggs'.....*shrug* just informing that there is a loophole in levy paying through another organisation.


Juicy

*goes and brushes teeth coz I have doo-doo and egg stuck in my teeth*

[westie]

Well looking at these comments it amazes me to see how FEW are PAID UP members of the Coast Guard. Sometimes we all need to step back and listen to our own advice.

I became a member just before I got my boat, how many of you are RAC? members.

WHY to get the benefits and the feeling of safety if you or a family member breakdown, VMR offer a log ON log OFF and they will check on you if you fail, to log off or if they have not had a call from you to extend you ETR.

They are there to help you and if ALL boaties could spare a few bucks for a membership regardless if used in Smooth or Rough water.

Looking out for them and being there without Question if needed, then a GREAT Christmas Present is to buy a membership with the local VMR and every year you can renew it for, A Dad, Son, Wife, A Friend, Here is and Idea how about you buy it for YOURSELF.

I am sure if you contacted any VMR you would find that there is a lot of craft out there that have dead radios on board and only go to sea with a Mobile, yes this is Irresponsible. (Oh yah it S?itted a few months back)

Get over this thing about the Jet Skier, there are way more boats rescued than Jet Skies, but some love to get on the ban wagon and bag them, well if you have NOT got a membership with VMR then you are NOT supporting the Group that will risk there life to come out at ANY hour to RESCUE YOU. They NEED your support If a 1/4 of boaties had a membership they would be VERY HAPPY, WHY do things of safety need to become compulsive we ALL just need to TAKE RESPONSIBILITY.

This goes for JET SKIERS and any Water Craft they will rescue it just the same.

Ps. If you fish from Mooloolaba you have a 25nm radius so if you go to Redcliffe then you need to become a member there as well. I know this would be a additional cost, but how many have said USE PAYS.

PPs if you donate to the tin box with volunteers at shows Etc. This will not give you the right to say you are a PAID member, you have donated a few bucks to help out ONLY.


Ok Let Me Have It :o

[juicyfruit]

no, the doo-doo and egg is all mine!!!! mine i tell ya!!!!!!! mmmmwwwuuaaaaahhhhhhahahaha

[Dignity]

The Automobile clubs will make you join if they came out to you and you are not a member, maybe that is something VMR needs to implement. Maybe even a 5 year membership just to ensure the rescued get used to paying the bill.

Juicy, my parents had doo-doo copywrited when I was born ;D ;D.

Have a Merry and SAFE Christmas to all. I am heading up the coast, won't be taking the boat but will be fishing somewhere around Caloundra.

Cheers Sam

[Mantaray]

So where does this all stop? like how much did it cost to send a bloody destroyer into the southern ocean a few years back, how much did it cost to send 2 blackhawks into the pacific ocean a few year before that to rescue a women and her cat, who paid for all those? Volunteer marine rescue? like it was only yesterday (before your power bill got hit) that the ambulance ladies aux were still fund raising for essential services. You volunteer then you accept the what you volunteer for but unfortuneatelly the expertise does not and will never exist in a volunteer organisation. Boats will continue to get damaged and restriction will become tighter and tighter as insurance and gov bullshit continue to grow.

[onerabbit]

fees for ballina vmr are only $27 per year, associate members are entitled to 2 free tows per year, not sure how much, but costs much more for for a non member, have never needed a tow yet, but its good insurance, i wouldn't mind handing them some bucks anyway. muzz

[Derek_Bullock]

So where does this all stop? like how much did it cost to send a bloody destroyer into the southern ocean a few years back, how much did it cost to send 2 blackhawks into the pacific ocean a few year before that to rescue a women and her cat, who paid for all those? Volunteer marine rescue? #

Regardless of how things happen, can you put a dollar value on a human life.

I dont think so.


Derek

[Mantaray]

So where does this all stop? like how much did it cost to send a bloody destroyer into the southern ocean a few years back, how much did it cost to send 2 blackhawks into the pacific ocean a few year before that to rescue a women and her cat, who paid for all those? Volunteer marine rescue? #

Regardless of how things happen, can you put a dollar value on a human life.

I dont think so.


Derek


that's fair enough so how can someone "charge" 16g and and make a big deal about it and others "wipe" 16m, that's about the difference, all or nothing then as you see it? so what's the big drama about this then? this is what "volunteer" organisations do ???????????? is it not

[baldyhead]

I was given to believe that if one was a paid up member of a VMR for a given region and was in another VMR's area and needed assistance from that VMR, that reciprocal rights ensued. This then saved the worry of paying more than one VMR membership.
Imagine if one fished in 5 different VMR regions....bloody expensive I would imagine.
baldy

[rajawolf]

The more people donate the less the government gives..look at how they treat carers they get a pi$$ poor $40 a fortnight to look after a disabled person...they save the government thousand$, and they dont even get a free turkey for xmas:-[

[bidkev]

The more people donate the less the government gives..look at how they treat carers they get a pi$$ poor $40 a fortnight to look after a disabled person...they save the government thousand$, and they dont even get a free turkey for xmas:-[

Think I get around 69 bucks now, but agreed, it is piss poor, and they can stick their turkey....I like a big juicy piece of pork ;D

kev

[DICER]

Bring back natural selection.....he may have survived, and cost a lot less in rescue fees.

Perhaps this guy should be nominated for a Darwin award?

[juicyfruit]

Johnny M,

I read your post yesterday, and it stayed with me all night at work.

I formulated a lot of responses in my head to it but nothing that could compare to your elegance of writing......

So in simple form.....

The experience you had with VMR, bloody sux.
Thank you for having a generous and helpful nature.
And thank you for sharing your experience.

Cheers

Juicy

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

WOW,,,,,,,now who's lost for words!!

Thankyou

Johnny

[bidkev]

I'm with Juicyfruit Johnny. I'd be *so* pissed off if I'd've had your experience. Unlucky mate and I hope something good comes your way to compensate for the situation. You summed it all up precisely in regard to the risk factors.

kev

[Mantaray]

in some ways the vmr's and coastguard's are slowly but surely becoming entangled in their own excesses of too much brass and officialdom. there are an extemely large number of people tied up in these organisations who simply can't wait for the day when the gov turns them into a another power house of bureaucrats when not only will they be able to stand on the jetty in their finest braid but will also be paid for it.

up to a point these organisations for many years have been a community service and basically funded by the community and served the community but are slowly being driven into the ground by legal weasels.

[roz]

Some good points Paddy.

Westie, as one who does a lot of fishing in QLD as well as NSW....... I could possibly launch from five different locations in one year. I am not a member of any VMR but I would be very happy to contribute some $$.

Derek, I agree with you up to a point, of course nobody must be left to flounder out in the middle of the ocean. But the Bone Head that sets to sea in the face of a strong wind warning then requires rescuing should pay a penalty.

roz

[baldyhead]

Westie...thats probably the reason that VMR's are having a hard time getting paid members M8. :-? I fish within 6 VMR areas = $330/ year...not likely

baldy

[westie]

If you are a member of VMR in your local area, it covers you in that area ONLY (Aprox 25nm M/Bah)

Why should our local VMR be subjected to other using there group FREE.
They are all individual groups under the banner of Coast Guard and have to raise money for the own group to survive.

For Mooloolaba to just keep the door open they require some $130.000 -$150.000 a year, I spoke to them regarding this Issue yesterday, and all they would like to see is 1/4 of boaties to join.

$55 a Year to become an Associate Member. I would have no problems having 2-3 memberships if I were fishing on a regular basis from other locations, if it was a once of trip, and I broke down, then paying a recovery/rescue fee would not worry me at all. I except that RISK.

Westie

Come on lets support the team that suppot us when we need them :-[

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

i was a member of VMR Gladstone for approx 15 yrs, fully paid by myself!
i fished and boated very often, all weather conditions. To cut a long story short, after 15 yrs of helping out with VMR in the odd rescue, radio duty, removing floating hazards, drums, logs etc etc etc (in my own boat), and generally helping out the public with boating problems (lack of fuel, engine troubles etc) from my own vessel,,,,,,,(things quickly changed) !

i then commercially fished from my same boat, operated and boated in the same areas, and same manner as the previous years, still helped joe public in close and isolated and remote places with fuel, advice, tech support etc,,,,,,,and one day when i myself had mechanical problems in a protected creek in great weather conditions ( i got home under my own power) , was told that a bill would be sent to me if the rescue vessel was to be launced to assist.

Now apparently, i had been put in a high risk category now that i was commercially fishing, and even though all boat handling and operations was the same as the previous years on a rec level, i would not be treated as a paid member, even though VMR knew i was commercially fishing, they still took my $ and never said a word. But come crunch time, rescue,,,,,if i ever needed it,,,i never have, i hope i never will. It would be a totally different story

So my life long , broad and wide marine experiences, that has seen me as a successful operator, now sees me as a high risk operator who won't be covered, yet an inexperienced, nieve rec member who 'stuffs up' and runs out of fuel in 25 knots of wind will be rescued with open arms, whilst an experienced boaty in protected waters gets the "thumbs down" and is told a 'bill will be sent'!
Go figure that one!!

I now travel to sea with no membership, as i withdrew my membership after a discussion on this topic.
So, after everyone i have helped in those years, which saved the VMR hundreds of dollars by VMR not having to launch and help other uneducated or silly boaties, or even those i helped with minor unforseen, and unfortunate problems, to get a 'cold shoulder' like that after 15yrs of on the water service to the community i think is a bit ' crappy'.
i still endeavour to help out, it's in the nature of fellow man to help others!
Some mobs just don't think straight!

HIGH RISK------------------ i think is an inexperienced boaty out of his element, and for some people, that's the mouth of the creek!!

LOW RISK----------------- someone with high boating experience, vast knowledge , common sense, and has ability to understand the sea, and to work with it, and one who can accept the consequences of dealing with mother nature!!

ON MY OWN

Johnny Mitchell