Freak Waves ???

[shaman]

Hey Guys,
Following that huge thread concerning that couple that overturned their tinny at Wello the other arvo, I was wondering whether any of you had experienced any freak waves in Moreton Bay at any time?
I have experienced freak type waves at least twice around the Peel Island area. i lived and fished the Redland Bay area for over 8 years before moving to the coast and thought I might share a couple of experiences and maybe someone out there in cyberfisho space could supply some form of answer.
The first occurance was between Peel and Macleay islands one morning travelling south and traversing a rather nasty n/ne chop/swell but my haines handling it quite well & I was getting a bit of air untilI was broadsided by a 1to1-1/2 mtr at least wave travelling west-east, this wave kicked up & came out of nowhere and as we were getting ourselves back together I scanned the bay and could see nothing that would or could of caused this.
On numerous occassions i would be sitting fishing and along would come a wave out of nowhere and I just thought it must be something that happens.
I was telling a buddy of mine who fishes out of scarborough about this and he told me i was full of crap until one morning we were parked over a shallow reef off Pats Point Macleay Island fishing in about 1-2 metres and anchored in his new 20 footer. The water was like glass with no traffic at all and about 6.30 am on a weekday when coming from the n/e this 1to2 mtr wave came across the bay and he s#$% himself trying to pull the anchor up before it hit us & damaged his boat. He was in shock as there was absolutely no evidence of traffic or wind or anything & obviously believed me after that.
any ideas guys? :-? :-?

[dynamicspot]

Yep can agree you do get freak waves out there they can come from no where

[sf17fisherman]

not sure what causes them but i remember very well as a child walking the port breakwall
we were standing at the end of it with a gental 1m -1.5m swell rolling in lapping the rocks as it went when all of a sudden this huge wave of 4odd meters hit the wall and took us all by shock and covered everyone standing on the wall with water
never heard of anybody getting sweeped off the rocks or anything like that but from that day on i sure know freak waves are out there

[bidkev]

Had a couple appear out of nowhere, one at Curtin and another near Mud. On both occasions I could see a container ship in the very far off distance (speck). Some of those buggers put out a big swell and they can roll on forever and take a long time to die out or reach you.

My first time through the seaway in kingtin nearly gave me a heart attack. We sat in the seaway waiting for first light and could see a fair rolling swell but luckily no breakers. A tinny about 12ft shot through so we followed about 2 minutes later. Just passing the end of the wall when this huge swell appeared out of nowhere.......I mean huge! kingtin was 6.1 metres and she was stood at 45 degrees and climbing, with this huge swell towering over us and I couldn't for the life of me imagine that we would get out of there alive if it broke. Anyway, I kept her at the same speed and we just climbed over it and dropped onto a flat sea behind. I looked behind and the sea outside the wall seemed to be about 15 to 20 ft higher than the seaway with a practically straight drop down...weird looking? We could see that tinny chugging down towards mermaid and wondered if he had the slightest idea how lucky he was.

kev

[DICER]

could these waves be caused by destructive interference or were they oncoming swells that were seen ~100 metres away?

[seabug]

Years back I was fishing with a workmate halfway across Lady Bay from the breakwater at at Warrnambool.
Calm day ,half metre swell ,we were just setting our lines .
Looked south and a hundred metres away was a swell of approx 3-4metres

Boat road over like a duck,but could have been a different outcome if swell had curled over.
Only the one,back to smooth to slight sea after that.
Keep a bit better eye on the sea since then

Regards
Seabug

[blaze]

Strange explanation for a wave "freak"
they are all caused by something- pressure waves, ship bow waves, part of a set that hasnt been studied etc
They happen more than we are aware, That I am sure of.
LIke a spot I fish off the rocks from has a reef 150m out the front, can be a mirror surface all day and one will pop up between the reef and the rock and submerse the rock which is about 3m high (aptly name SINKING ROCK)
I think if we spend more time studying the sea (you know, research, science) there would be a lot less freak waves and more knowledgable boaties.
cheers
blaze
ps
bloody scarery at times when we are caught unaware

[Mad_Barry]

I've got no doubt "Unusual" or "out of pattern" type waves occur, for various reasons.

I've also got no doubt these 'freak waves' are used as a handy option when passing the buck around after 'some' boating accidents.

[adriancorrea]

I dont know if it was a freak wave or not.
But as most of you know we were hit by one just out of bribie and overturned, still to this day we are wondering what happened lol

Also another night sitting in calm water just off peel and no one else around and all off a sudden one came rolling through, pretty scary in the dark.

Tight Lines
Adrian

[2iar]

I've got no doubt "Unusual" or "out of pattern" type waves occur, for various reasons.

I've also got no doubt these 'freak waves' are used as a handy option when passing the buck around after 'some' boating accidents.


You've nailed it there Dicko IMO. As Blaze and others have pointed it, they're not all that uncommon - so hardly deserve to be termed "freak".

Nearly every time you hear of a boat overturned in the bay, the commercial news stations use the term. Gets on my tits, I have to say.

I suppose it's a semantic point at the end of the day.

Mike

[roz]

I think you are spot on Dicko & Blaze, always seems to be a 'freak wave' that gets the rock hoppers.

Of course they occur, but often used as a reason for poor judgement.

Roz

[Charlie]

The freak wave that gets rockfishermen happens at the turn of the tide.Waves are always smaller as the tide drops then a massive set comes though as the tide turns,pretty predictable really if your experienced.
Regards
Charlie

[fish2eat]

The press HAVE to have a neat "pidgeon hole" explanation for everything

When boats overturn, its a "freak wave"

When aircraft crash its "engine failure"

When someone gets attacked by a shark its a "rogue shark"

When someone gets blown up in Iraq its "insurgents" or "muslin extremists"

nothing we can do about it, its tabloid journalism, easy to understand news in bite size pieces for the masses. Easy for journalists to understand as well

[shaman]

You've nailed it there Dicko IMO. As Blaze and others have pointed it, they're not all that uncommon - #so hardly deserve to be termed "freak".

Mike[/quote]

I dunno what u want to call them or if it really makes that much of a difference when your broadsided by a FREAK wave travelling west to east in an n/ne swell between Peel & Coochie which for those who are not familiar with the area is a fairly sheltered area. I gotta tell u i was pretty FREAKED. The peel area seems to have a fair bit of this action maybe it's caused by swells hitting shallow banks sort of a tsunami type thing.

[GCBrett]

If you're really interested perhaps give the Qld EPA a call - they have wave monitoring buoys all along the coast. If there is some pattern to these things, they might know about it. Their website might even have some info. The Bureau of Meteorology has a standard warning when they give their swell predictions - something like "max. wave height may be twice this", so obviously a regular occurence.

[morty103]

Earthquakes are coming to queensland.... underwater tremours causing unexpected swell.......bit of a long shot ;D

[DR]

any fellas that surf will tell that in a set the 4th or 6th wave, can't remember exactly, are always bigger than the rest. maybe more pronounced in open water?

[shaman]

The waves/swells i refer to are actually occuring inside moreton bay between nth straddie and mainland which is actually enclosed waters more an estuary than an open bay. Nth Stradbroke encloses this area and blocks any swell or ocean type waves from entering this area eccept for further north (south east passage bar) between nth straddie and morton island. Wind swell and chop occur in this area but every so often up comes a large swell sometimes in a different direction than the swell occuring. :-?

[shaman]

Earthquakes are coming to queensland ;D underwater tremours causing unexpected swell.......big of a long shot ;D

i was actualy not infering any tremor or quake activity rather that any smaller swell could possibly build rapidly when hitting shallow water as a tsunami does.

[Outsider]

As others have already said - no such thing as a freak wave. On average most waves at a given time are around the same size - some a bit bigger and some a bit smaller.

It's the "above average" and "way way above average" waves that happen at the extreme ends of this sample spectrum that get the "freak label. Think of it in casino Money Wheel terms ;D -

The money symbols come up 99% of the time, some values are higher than others but the're all pretty similar.

Conrad can be the smallest wave - comes up very rarely and in wave terms we don't even notice it

Jupiters is the biggest wave - again comes up very rarely but because it's big, we really notice it.

You should always be expecting these"freaks" at any given time, and have a plan in place for when you come across one, or it comes across you. You should also remember that a wave that is bigger than average on the open ocean, can be MUCH bigger than average when you add in a bar, a seaway, a run out tide etc etc etc. This maybe why so many people run into trouble in these areas/conditions. Then it's easy to blame a "freak" wave that was out to get them. Probably also less a case of bad luck than bad planning.

What's the moral of my story?

Give yourself the biggest margin of safety/error you possibly can.

Then double it.

Then add 6.

Look after yourselves.

[robersl]

coming back from mud island 1 fine moonlite night dead flat heading to clontarf next minute we were airborne and bang hit the water again pulled straight up and looked all around us not a boat in sight and completely flat we reckon one of the navys subs had just gone through and we got the wake there was no other boat in sight no light nothing and it was a clear moon lite night

[robersl]

As others have already said - no such thing as a freak wave. On average most waves at a given time are around the same size - some a bit bigger and some a bit smaller.

It's the "above average" and "way way above average" waves that happen at the extreme ends of this sample spectrum that get the "freak label. Think of it in casino Money Wheel terms #;D -

The money symbols come up 99% of the time, some values are higher than others but the're all pretty similar.

Conrad can be the smallest wave - comes up very rarely and in wave terms we don't even notice it

Jupiters is the biggest wave - again comes up very rarely but because it's big, we really notice it.

You should always be expecting these"freaks" at any given time, and have a plan in place for when you come across one, or it comes across you. You should also remember that a wave that is bigger than average on the open ocean, can be MUCH bigger than average when you add in a bar, a seaway, a run out tide etc etc etc. This maybe why so many people run into trouble in these areas/conditions. Then it's easy to blame a "freak" wave that was out to get them. Probably also less a case of bad luck than bad planning.

What's the moral of my story?

Give yourself the biggest margin of safety/error you possibly can.

Then double it.

Then add 6.

Look after yourselves.

[DICER]

The waves that pop up out of no where sound very much like constructive-destructive inference waves. What happen is the the swell or waves come together and either cancel each other out or double up on top of each other. To me it would make more sense that this happens in the bay, especially near the centre of the bay or near an island such as Peel. Hence, you would have two incoming waves from different portions of the bay causing constructive interference waves.

This could also happen at sinking rock. No apparent incoming large waves, but the small waves could double or triple up and cover the rock. This would be totally different to oncoming sets.

[blaze]

Hi Dicer
If its the sinking rock in tassie you are talking about, they tell me its caused by a ground swell. As the appently calm water gradually rises from the off shore pressure it slowly builds on the outside of the reef. the inside slowly drops away and then the groundswell drops over the reef and shoots a big curly FREAK wave over the rock, when it does happen there is no time to move, all you can do is wedge yourself into the crevisis on the rock and hang on, the force of the wave will drive you into the crevis and then you need to hang on while the wave drops away. Only had it happen once and thats enough for me. there has never been a life lost here but every year someone gets washed off but as luck would have it the current drops you on a beach about 150m away fairly quick.
cheers
blaze

[3Vs]

This was in the news a while ago. Doesn't apply to the bay but scary all the same [smiley=end.gif]
Freak Waves Are No Tall Tale


Massive waves up to 100 feet in height -- once thought to be extremely rare -- actually roam the oceans quite frequently and could threaten to overturn ships and oil rigs, a European Commission study has found.

The study, announced last week and conducted on radar images gathered by two European Space Agency satellites during a three-week period in 2001, revealed that no fewer than 10 of the so-called rogue waves rose from various oceans around the world in that time. Not too long ago, scientists had believed that such waves formed just once every 10,000 years, according to the space agency.

The findings could lead to the prevention of many wave-related accidents in the future, said Wolfgang Rosenthal, lead researcher for MaxWave, the European Commission-funded group responsible for the study.

"MaxWave formally concluded at the end of last year although two lines of work are carrying on from it," he said in a statement outlining the group's research. "One is to improve ship design by learning how ships are sunk, and the other is to examine more satellite data with a view to analyzing if forecasting is possible."

Preventing wave-related accidents is both a financial and safety concern for the maritime industry. Most large ships and oil rigs are designed to withstand waves up to 50 feet. However, in 1995, an instrument onboard the Draupner oil rig in the North Sea recorded an 85-foot wave.

In 2001, two cruise ships in the South Atlantic -- the Bremen and the Caledonian Star -- reported that their bridge windows were smashed by 100-foot rogue waves.

MaxWave researchers suspect that rogue waves also played a role in the sinking of some of the 200 large supertankers and container ships that have gone down in bad weather over the past two decades.

Unfortunately for those in harm's way, there is still much more research to be done before a solution can be proposed. For instance, no one yet seems to know how the waves are formed in the first place.

"We don't know what's going on out there," said Paul Liu, an oceanographer and rogue-wave researcher with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. "There are some theories, but I don't think those theories can ever translate into the real ocean environment."

One of those theories is that when two waves meet under the right conditions, they create one large wave. However, Liu discards that theory as being much too simple. "That's the easiest way to visualize it, but that's more or less linear theory," he said. "It can be done. But if that's the case, you should be able to see it all the time."

Indeed, while rogue waves have been found where currents meet, they have also appeared far away, leading researchers to believe that wind and other weather-related phenomena may also contribute to the waves' size.

A new project, dubbed WaveAtlas, is now attempting to shed light on the mystery by creating a catalog of waves and related accidents that can be examined for correlations. The project group is expected to publish its findings in early 2005.

Liu said he is encouraged by the research so far, but noted that he would also like to see more in situ measurements, like the one taken by the Draupner oil rig. Ships could also carry recording devices, he suggested.

"I think there are a lot of rogue waves out there," he said. "It's like if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it. What happens if a wave appears in the ocean and no one can record it?"

[fish2eat]

There's got to be some explanation for it happening inside Straddie, big container ships don't go that far south. Whenever I've experienced a "freak wave" I've been able to spot a 60ft Mustang Sports Cruiser that has just gone within 2 metres of me when there only 2km of water for him to overtake.

Haven't yet experienced an unexplained one, but I spend most of my time down at the Pin and never seen one there.

Would be interested to see where exactly these are happening to build a profile of "black spots"

[AaronF]

Have surfed for 20 odd years and must say I don't believe it. Sure there are bigger waves in a set but if these so called 100' monsters were to hit land when and where does it happen? Like Charlie says it makes for a nice explanation for the guy that f***** up and got it wrong going over the bar. On a 3' swell day there sure can be a 6' wave in there but in my view never a wave more than twice the average swell size. The only occasion this happens in open ocean is when a swell is rising from a low pressure sysytem situated a long way out to sea. You might see a wave that is say 10' when everything else has been 3-4' all day but the periods between those waves will become shorter as the swell gradually increases. Not sure about the bay but it could be the bar or freighters, there is not scientific explanation for it that I could understand.

[SeaHunt]

Well if you do a google search it would appear they definately do occur.
But I wouldn't call anything under 2 metres in Moreton bay a freak wave , regardless of how smmoth the rest of the ocean was.

[3Vs]

I think Heath has a story about a set of three monsters on the Tweed Bar.

Heath?

[trueblue]

Freak waves do exist - just look on your chart near hutchies and wide of moreton near deep tempest. It is clearly stated on the chart that they exist in that area - bright red text on my chart.

The cause for these is pretty much what DICER was saying - constructive - destructive waves. The definition of a freak wave is one that is double or more of the typical seas and swell that is being experienced in the area. They can come from the same direction as the typical sets, or sometimes can come from side on however side on is normally a product of converging currents / tides / wind.

The ones that come in the same direction usually are just 2 waves that got into sync with each other and stood up together as one wave temporarily for 50 or so feet of the waves travel, and then drops back into the general slop again.

[Dignity]

Regularily sitting offshore have been hit by swell coming through more than twice the average height. Last Saturday nite off 6mile at Caloundra the swell was probably 1m but there were quite a few that came through at 2 1/2 metres especially around 1 am Sunday. I would consider this the norm. But on a couple of occassions previously have been astounded by the size of a swell coming through. When this has happened the power of the swell could be felt and it was tremendous. Often thought that it might be the result of a tsunami. Thought I read there were about 20 tsunamis that hit the east coast a year and these were generally well under a metre in height.

[familyman]

Used to go rock fishing alot and studied the swell before going onto the platform,found that on average a larger wave ,up to double the ordinary height ,would land every 22 minutes give or take 30 seconds.
These were like clockwork NOT irregular or freak waves. :o
So far dont have enough outside boating hours to comment on that side of things
cheers jon

[redspeckle]

I agree in what Dicer said yes waves and swell can catch up up with each other to make a bigger wave or swell in heigth
But what about the Ocean bed the change of depth's when the tide, wind, currents work againts each other
eg when fishing in 10m, 50m to 100m away its 15m depth when a bit of a wave or swell comes thorugh its going to jack up and wave becomes bigger in height

I have cross south passge bars heaps of times and be in surf life saving driven & taught driving of IRB's (Inshore Rescue Boats) for many years
That reason I can tell you is be people called them freak waves because they didnt seee them coming happpens early morning or late afternoon and night time
Beacuse the suns glare blinds them can't see where there going

Mitch

[DICER]

It's probably also when you want to go into napping mode as well.

Sure I also generally agree with above comments on how variation across the bottom, and also in the wave type, length etc, can also play a major role in how the waves peak or form (or not form).

[Mad_fisherman]

Dr,
Normally the 6th mate but then again they do not always roll through in 6's but touch wood the last of the set is the bombie!

MAD!

[shaman]

Freak waves do exist - just look on your chart near hutchies and wide of moreton near deep tempest. #It is clearly stated on the chart that they exist in that area - bright red text on my chart. #

The cause for these is pretty much what DICER was saying - constructive - destructive waves. #The definition of a freak wave is one that is double or more of the typical seas and swell that is being experienced in the area. #They can come from the same direction as the typical sets, or sometimes can come from side on however side on is normally a product of converging currents / tides / wind.

The ones that come in the same direction usually are just 2 waves that got into sync with each other and stood up together as one wave temporarily for 50 or so feet of the waves travel, and then drops back into the general slop again.

Thanx Trueblue & Dicer,
Makes sense and i'm glad that there are other members who have experienced this around Peel & in the bay. Early on in this thread I felt like an idiot with some of the reply posts. Glad you could shed some light. Ta, Shaman. 8-) :) 8-)

[trueblue]

These waves happen all of the time, and are not rarities. We just don't see the big ones so often. The general conditions though are common. The word though "freak" is usually only used when big means "OMG that was f%$#en HUGE!!!!"

Never mind all of the chat about 1 and 2 metre waves. Like lots of people have said, these are seen regularly when a 1 metre wave meets up with another one and they stand up to 2 metres out of the blue.

When they are really scary, is when a consistent 3 metre set of waves throws one 6 metre giant at you! Thats what the chart is talking about when it mentions freak waves. The conditions we are all familiar with (1m standing up to 2m) are exactly the same as when a whopper occurs, but it just doesn't happen to be seen as often, as people don't tend to be out all the time in 3 metre waves to see the big doubler wave that stands up and wants to fight!

Rule of thumb out in the open ocean - never be out in a boat that can't handle twice the weather you could possibly expect...