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View Full Version : time to settle the squire/snapper debate



foggy
17-02-2006, 08:32 PM
Lets get an ausfish consenses together on this subject that seems to raise debate every few months or so. I know them all as snapper but I still dont call it a snapper until it reaches 70cm. Thats my bit.

Steven78
17-02-2006, 08:39 PM
Dont you mean 5kgs mate. ;D Which i am not a member of yet!!!!!
PM me to let me know what your up to Saturday.

foggy
17-02-2006, 08:49 PM
For those voting for a bump on the head, I have caught snapper up to 11kgs without a bump and you are going to call that a squire. Bloody hard markers. LOL

chanquetas
17-02-2006, 08:52 PM
Ive also caught them at 50cm with a very pronounced bump. My mate in Victoria swears that the bump means its a male, no bump is a female. Can anyone confirm that?

foggy
17-02-2006, 08:57 PM
Ive also caught them at 50cm with a very pronounced bump. My mate in Victoria swears that the bump means its a male, no bump is a female. Can anyone confirm that?


Dont know about the male/ female thing #but i have also caught plenty of 40-60cm fish with the bump. Eg the one in my avtar.

szopen
17-02-2006, 10:13 PM
Looks like a bump to me.

NeilD
17-02-2006, 10:14 PM
I think a 60 cm fish probably deserves the title especially if caught in the Bay. When I was wee lad anything under about 3lb was a squire. This was in commercial sort of terms

banshee
17-02-2006, 11:01 PM
According to Ern Grant,three pounds.

sf17fisherman
17-02-2006, 11:04 PM
they are all snappers it is only us who put a name for a small snapper

as for bumps from what i have read it sounds like the bump is some sort of bone defect that many but not all of the snapper on the east coast gets

heaps less on the west coast have a bump and a bump is almost unheard of in NZ waters

onerabbit
17-02-2006, 11:55 PM
Sorry froggy, but I've seen bigger bumps on fish that weren't even legal.
Some fish in some areas get big bumps, some dont, personaly, I think it has to do with their feeding habits. Weather they need to smack their heads into the rocks to get a feed, this could be a much debated subject, this is just my opinion.

All are Chrysophrys auratus

Muzz

TIM-DONSELAAR
18-02-2006, 02:02 AM
# # Sorry froggy, but I've seen bigger bumps on fish that weren't even legal.
Some fish in some areas get big bumps, some dont, personaly, I think it has to do with their feeding habits. Weather they need to smack their heads into the rocks to get a feed, this could be a much debated subject, this is just my opinion.

# # All are Chrysophrys auratus

# # Muzz

im with you on this one muzz,if i hit my head on a concrete wall alot im bound to get a permanent lump on my head # :D

cheers tim #:)

Angla
18-02-2006, 04:42 AM
What about the south australian snapper that have a longer body and go harder because they live in stronger currents. They have a bigger tail than in say Qld.
I think they are the same breed but are from a different group through habitat and diet differences.
Snapper from 3 lb up is my vote.

Angla

griz066
18-02-2006, 07:41 AM
You mean a bump like this one so snapper or squire ::)

onerabbit
18-02-2006, 08:17 AM
Now THATS a bump, nice one Griz.

Muzz

Anne-T-Dote
18-02-2006, 08:59 AM
Foggy, I'm with you - 70cm has my vote.

But the DPI Fisheries would probably disagree. As has been said before, they are ALL snapper when considering the relavant legislation, "squire" is just a nickname that is not reckognised by DPI fisheries....

dasher
18-02-2006, 10:11 AM
Obviously they are all snapper, but when in Vic we used to call them pinkies until they reach legal size. I still do the same up here but have transformed to squire instead of pinkies. :)

RCG008
19-02-2006, 07:51 PM
There all snapper. The ones that are too small are a waste of bait, but they are still snapper. Work confusses me enough allready I don't need fish names to do the same.

snapattack
20-02-2006, 08:57 AM
Its hard enough some times to catch a decent fish in the bay sometimes so I am call them all snapper.

finding_time
20-02-2006, 10:27 AM
I guess going by the poll at the moment 31.9% of ausfishers have snapper envy!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

4KG 70cms sounds about right ;) ;)

Ian

I think there shoud be another class as well, Snogger above 90cm and 9kg see below

DR
20-02-2006, 10:37 AM
they are all snapper. to me the snapper/squire thingy is an elitist thing, a bit like kids in the school yard. 'my brother's bigger than your brother'. then they all grow up with snapper envy & buy red sports cars.. ;D ;D ;D

i only catch snapper, small ones but still snapper :-[

snappa
20-02-2006, 02:51 PM
all snappa ..

onerabbit
20-02-2006, 03:36 PM
Even big ones seem to be squire when someone else hasn't caught it.

I call em all snapper.

Muzz

NEWBY
20-02-2006, 06:37 PM
they are all snappers it is only us who put a name for a small snapper

as for bumps from what i have read it sounds like the bump is some sort of bone defect that many but not all of the snapper on the east coast gets

heaps less on the west coast have a bump and a bump is almost unheard of in NZ waters

Sorry to go against ya mate but I am from WA originally and ALL the larger snapper I have caught over the years have the bumps. I spent 2 weeks in Shark Bay and fishing snapper every day. Same thing. They all had bumps over a certain size. Once again, sorry to go against you but that is fact.
One more thing, In WA there not called Squire either. There a pain in the arse that steal ya bait. :)

robersl
20-02-2006, 07:12 PM
ok now what sounds better when you tell the fish stories i caught 5 squire or i caught 5 snapperr mmmm i wonder me im going with the snapper after all fish grow as the story is told could start off at 20cm and at the end of the day be 70 cm and growing after a few rums

shane

Dignity
20-02-2006, 07:18 PM
noticed that since the DPI changed the regs and started calling them snapper every one at work has done the same - don't hear the word squire any more

sam

philip_thomson
20-02-2006, 10:23 PM
3kg is a snapper however 5kg is a SNAPPA ;D

mackmauler
20-02-2006, 11:35 PM
like this razorback phil ;D

Fishinmishin
20-02-2006, 11:39 PM
Anything pink I catch is a snapper in my stories ;D.

Zeeke
20-02-2006, 11:40 PM
Gotta be 5kgs to be a Snapper.. and then if its under, its a deffinant throwback..

Tim

Tony_N
22-02-2006, 06:07 AM
Gotta be 5kgs to be a Snapper.. and then if its under, its a deffinant throwback..

Tim

.....and here was me thinking that anything over 5k is a definite throwback because its a serious breeder. Bigger fish produce more eggs.

Zeeke
22-02-2006, 11:46 AM
and the throwback to making more eggs is weaker specimens because all the adults energy goes into making as many as possible.. the younger fish have stronger fry and less chance of deformities and stuff

Tim

philip_thomson
22-02-2006, 01:06 PM
remember smaller fish taste better ;)

35cm-45cm squire cooked whole.

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Tony_N
22-02-2006, 01:06 PM
Hi Tim

That sounds interesting. Could you direct me to any research on that? I've never heard it before.

Tony

Zeeke
22-02-2006, 01:09 PM
dunno if there has been any research... its just something i experienced when i used to breed fish.. .. it was common that the bigger fish. even tho they would produce more fry, they wouldnt be as strong or healthy as fry produced from a younger fish.. and there was a higher chance of deformities and sterile fish

Tim

Tony_N
22-02-2006, 01:21 PM
well....if you have the experience, I'll have to defer to that because I don't have any- only a strong belief. #I have seen some pretty big breeders in fish farms - you'd think they'd be the first to go for stronger fry. #I'll try to find out more

Tony

Tony_N
22-02-2006, 01:36 PM
Tim

Another thought occurred to me - the sex change undertaken by barra and flathead happens to quite mature fish. You'd think that in nature that would be set up to give the fish stocks an advantage. ie big mother, large number of eggs, no reduction in quality of fry. I'm still just operating on a gut feeling though.

Tony

Leo_N.
22-02-2006, 02:06 PM
I worked in a snapper hatchery for a while, and can say that the lump is definately a sign of a male fish. We used that as an indication of which fish to induce to spawn (males rarely need a prompt). During spawning season (Spring), the males also have a red band around their eyes, which looks like a mask. The smaller fish are less likely to have a bump, so some fish less than about 3 kg which don't have a bump are still male.

Males seem to have a larger max size, which makes sense considdering the reproductive effort that goes into producing large numbers of eggs. Energetically males can invest more into somatic growth.

I have yet to come across any data that suggests that larger fish produce lower quality eggs. I think that if nutritional inputs were limited larger females would be more likely to be compromised, but in good environmental conditions I can't see any reason for larger specimens to have lower quality reproductive events.

roz
22-02-2006, 02:39 PM
Most snapper caught in waters of souther NSW and further down don't have bumps on their heads.

So that shouldn't be counted as an option.

Cheers Roz

mackmauler
22-02-2006, 03:32 PM
Its just not right that grandma and grandpa snappa are bumping uglies, I am sure there are jays in the snappa world but the exception rather than the norm.

onerabbit
23-02-2006, 09:24 AM
I have read that NZ snapper never get the bump, but have no experience. Can anyone confirm it?

Muzz

snapattack
02-03-2006, 10:27 AM
Looks like we will be calling them all Snapper. Majority rules. Sounds better any way.