FIne for illegal fishing---- Pathetic

[Spaniard_King]

How can they justify a $5 fine for $10,000 worth of illegal fish

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,18780388-1246,00.html

The judge should be [smiley=rifle.gif]

quote from the web site

Deputy Chief Magistrate Andrew Cannon fined the trio last week, saying that because their boat had been destroyed by Australian authorities, and they didn't have the financial capacity to pay, they deserved a more lenient penalty.

He also waived their court costs.


What a joke, he is sorry for them ::)

Garry

[Gbanger]

When is the government and judicial system going to get serious about these crimes being commited against Australia.

I know a bloke who is going up north to serve onboard the Australian vessels catching these blokes. How much moral can they have knowing that the blokes they are catching are going to be fined $5..

Something needs to be done about it...

[agnes_jack]

They could at least make the fine heavy enough to pay for more regulation books..... ;D ;D ;D
I know a bloke who got fined $180.00 for 1 whiting he was using for a livebait!! (he didn't know the rules, no regs brochures) ;D ;D


Regards, Tony

[shaman]

I wonder what penalty would be inflicted by the Indo govt if one of us was caught illegally poaching in their zone. I shudder to think!!! A harsher penalty for the fishermen and skippers has to be applied not just a fine, even if it was $27,000. It's simply not harsh enough, Jail time, big jail time is all we can offer to deter these pirates. We have to remain humane and in doing so our jails are probably like a holiday camp. I dunno!! Where do we go from here???? GBanger has a point about morale for our boys trying to enforce the law and AgnesJack's comment about the $180 fine vs $5 is just firing me up!!!! >:( >:( >:( ARGHHH LOOK OUT!!! Billy >:( >:(

[gogecko]

I hate illegal fishing too, but doesnt anyone besides me feel sorry for the guys? Is there no compassion anymore?

The real problem is with the local indo crime lords who advance these guys money to feed their families and buys boats that hardly float at exorbitant prices, and force the guys to risk thier lives trying to repay a debt. Its similar to the drug mules problem. Most drug mules are recruited at casinos because they cant pay debts to loan sharks.

Do I need to remind you of our aussie ancestors who risked jail and stole for food, only to get deported?

Lets attack the cause of the problem. Corruption is rife in these aisian countries among law enforcement and local councils. Nobody is putting a stop to crime lords over there. Why are we sending 5billion in tsunami relief without demanding higher levels of local law enforcement?

Sorry to disagree with you all. Six months ago, I would have said 'shoot them all' until I heard some news stories on whats really going on. I think the judge understands the issues. Hes sending a message to the pollys to attack the cause, not the effect.

Am I ill informed ? please feel free to correct me. Its just an opinion.
OK Im off my sopabox now. Ahh, that feels better.

cheers
Andrew

[fish2eat]

While I am outraged at a $5 fine, I'm with Andrew.

The guys they catch are poor peasants who don't speak any Engish and wouldn't have a clue what the Australian regulations are. You have to get at the organisers. The organisers have 1. No fish, 2.No boat

The Indonesian government gives us NO support to stop this happenning.

[Lazybugger]

I take the other view. Whatever the reason these peasants are doing the wrong thing. If they end up spending a couple of years in jail perhaps everyone else in their village will wake up to the fact that taking the fishing jobs in Aussie waters just aren't worth the risk. Yes the penalty may be tough on a few, but isn't that what having deterrants is all about.

Overall I think the justice system ignores the aggrieved parties a bit too much. In this case its the Australian fisherman, professional & amateur, the tourists and the consumers.

Hopefully this judge will be looking for a new job soon.

my 2 cents anyway.

[choppa]

remember the thread i posted a short while back in regard to

if you could change anything in relation to fishing what would it be?????????

i dont agree whole heartedly that these guys dont know what there doing,,,, they know,,,,and they also know if the get caught they'll get a slop on the wrist,,, a stern talking to and sent home,,,,,,,,all on the aussie tax payer behalf,,,

crime lords and drug mule comparasions are just the tip of the ice berg,,,,,next you'll be saying they go and slaughter rhino and elephants because the black market $ are greater than the penalty,,,,,,the last i heard the authorities here are allowed to shoot first and question later,,,,,maybe this is a tactic that the australian government should adapt,,,,,"""s**t"" the rest of the world has,,,,,,,,,,,,

does the report mention how long they've got to repay the $5.00?????????

choppa

[shaman]

Hey Andrew, I hadn't thought along your lines ie; Tsunami Relief.
But didn't the Indo govt. virtually order us out of their country while our boys were trying to distribute aid that we had supplied. I at that time, although only for a brief inflamed second, thought we ought to tell 'em to stick it and take our money and aid home again. If this is the level of arrogance displayed at a time that we as a nation are trying to help their citizens, what sort of response do you think we will get if we try to "negotiate" with them on a diplomatic level?? I'm afraid that even after your thought provoking post my brain has gone back to the drawing board. That said mate you did take my train of thought out of the square so to speak. #Billy.
P.S. the Indo fisho's/villagers plight does not go unnoticed by me but until their govt stops the supply of money and boats by these "loan sharks" and imprisons them and the fisho's involved the only people who can be held accountable are the fisho's themselves. You can't punish the people at the top of this criminal chain as they are protected or ignored by their own authorities.

[Argle]

A five dollar fine is an absolute insult to every Aussie fisherman/woman/child weather rec or pro who pays for a licence or rego or whatever >:(
The judge said "oh theyve already lost their boat :'(" SO THEY BLOODY SHOULD :o
And to say the poor buggers didnt know what they were doing is wrong is CRAP, they admitted they knew they were in Australian waters ILLEGALLY.
When are the bleeding hearts in this country going to wake up and see how these countries see Australia as an easy target who they will continue to exploit.
These people should be locked up for extended periods to send a message back home that this is NOT acceptable. At the moment its a nice meal a hot shower a smack on the wrist and a plane fare home and it all starts over again.

Until the authorities grow a backbone or eat a couple of tins of "harden-up" the problem will only get worse. Just think what would happen to Aussie fisherman if the roles were reversed :o :o :o

Rant over

Cheers and Beers
Scott

[Gbanger]

i dont have any compassion for them... they rape the seas in a way thats completely unsustainable.. thats why they are in our waters, because theirs are empty...

The Australian government imposes restrictions on fishing times throughout the year for commercial and recreational fishos... for the longevity and well being of not only our fishing industry but also the wildlife... then these pricks come along and just pillage... AND GET FINED $5 ... ITS A JOKE! [smiley=angryfire.gif]

[gogecko]

I suppose you guys think illegal fishing would stop if we penalised them harder? Lets say we bring in a 5-10 year jail sentence or even hung/shot a few of them (not that we would).

Wouldnt there always be someone desperate enough to take the risk and run the guantlet?

I say witholding the 5 billion in relief (promised to be paid over 5 yrs) is a stronger weapon than guns. Rebuilding the towns that were hit is where the voters live. The indo govt needs the towns rebuilt to be elected again. Hit the indo govt where it hurts until they stamp out corruption. And we want Shappelle back while were at it, too.

I suspect Downer and Johhny are already threatening to withold this dough. I also suspect thats why we promised it in the first place. Why am I so cynical?

Andrew

[shaman]

I hope your right Andrew, i for one would love to see our govt stand up for itself and not be so politically correct but the majority of the minority would scream blue bloody murder and they would run for cover. Oh and don't forget the opposition who would wring every last drop of decency out of anything that would discredit anybloodybody.
Aside from blowing their boats out of the water you're certainly not going to scare them all off and even then you'd still get poachers, that's just the way they are and history proves their tenacity.
Maybe we should get one of them to chuck a few children overboard to get the whingers on our side. It could work twice, couldn't it??
Anyway I hope that little Johnny is going to withhold the aid if thats what it takes but we better not let them know we know or they'll change their minds and run for cover, with the blithering opposition chasing after them.
God what hope have we got?? :-/ :-/

[SeaHunt]

Poor peasants who don't speak any English? WTF
Most of the people on the planet don't speak any English, I don't see what that has to do with anything. :-?
They know they are in Australian waters and they know they risk being caught and locked up and having their shit excuse for a boat burned, so I don't feel sorry for them at all.
I feel sorry for all the sharks they fin and throw back still alive. >:(
So why do they come so far? Have they already killed every shark in Indonesian waters?

That aid little Johnny promised after the Tsunami hit really peeved me off. If I want them to have my money I will give it to them myself.
What most people overlook is that Indonesia is not a poor country. There are a lot more millionaires in Jakata than the whole of Australia, how much did they give?
Indonesia has at least 4 fighter jets for every one we have, at a couple of hundred million each, I didn't hear they decided to sell a few to help out the Tsunami victims.
If the Tsunami hit Australia how much would the Indonesian Govt donate to us?
SFA is my guess. The money should have been spent on border security. :(
Half of the time our Govt is brown nosing to the Indo Govt., the other half of the time they are sticking it into their interal affairs.
I have no problems with a $5 fine , you are never going to get the money anyway.
6 months jail for initial offence, 5 years for a second offence and 10 for a third. Still a lot less than Corby got for a crime that is not much worse.
That Tsunami relief money would have built a lot of jails. :P

[Az]

its an illegal activity and an illegal trade, they're no better than the australian drug mules caught in indo

$5 fine is just pathetic and embarrasing >:(

[insideout]

its hard to kick a goal when the refs keep moving the posts >:( >:( >:(

[DaveSue_Fishos_Two]

I can't believe that some people would honestly believe that withholding aid would be a preferred option. You would let hundreds of thousands of needy and desperate people go without for the sake of these poaching fishermen??? I can't get my head around that, but maybe there's something wrong with my head.

Hefty fines and imprisonment are the answer in my opinion. The law is primarily designed to be a deterrant. Lock them up, spread the word, and watch the effect.

Sharpel Corby and other Aussies in overseas prisons should be a great enough deterrant for anybody else to follow in their shoes, and for those that chance it, well the old adage.............if you can't do the time - don't do the crime.

Just my thoughts

Dave

[damons33]

corruption is rife here too, open your eyes gecko and stop eating flys. jail here isn't a holiday
and sharpel is drug addicted hooker who got caught fair n square.
you want to talk criminal let's talk about neville wran or bob carr(horses hoof) or bob hawke or paul keating(horses hoof).
you want compassion go join peace corps or something.
we got bent judges who have a attack of their conscience when ever they see someone who is a victim of the "system" on which they grow fat off!
save your compassion for your own back yard.
stop the rot!
if a country over populates to an extent to which it suffers for- why should i bleed for them when reallly they would tramp me into the dirt given the opportunity, i wonder if the romans started to talk like you guy's before their empire collapsed! the spoils go to the victor, nothing has change in human existance, so put your heads out, it is a capitalist world-capitalise or die~
convicts'=ancestors??
damon- i only feel sorry for me mum.
:D

[choppa]

i hear that the owners of the boat are laughing as well,,,,,,there planning on charging a $10.00 fee for divers to have a look see,,,,,,,,,boat only cost $18.25 a day to run////

its good to see the old aussie argument back,,,,we started off having a whinge over illegal fishn,,,,now were trying to free a body board enthusiast who forgot to leave the contraband home,,,,,,

i reckon stop all trade,,, stop telstra shares being sold in indonesia,,, and because the aus dollar is stronger against the indo ringgit,,, buy the country and call it???????? (i'll leave that up to you)


choppa

ps didnt dr patel stem from there as well??????

[DaveSue_Fishos_Two]

The Australian govt is sh!t scared of Indonesia. And while that continues, they will always pander to them.

Dave

[bundy]

Lost my wallet with fishing licience in it. They wanted $10 up front for another one, but I supose Iam australian.
ToLd them I was going fishing on thursday and offered my credit card details but was told I could either send a chq or drive to brisbane (100kl), I decided to get a weekly one on line as one of my replacement card arrived, but you guessed it I was told on line that the numbers were no goog. rang american express and was assured all was ok with the card, Back on the phone and was told the same story, At this stage i DECIDED to start at the top and work down
1st call to the local Mp soffice who said they would try to get me some slack cut and get back to me
2nd call to mr beeties office who was going to go to the ministers office and get back to me
Fisheriers ministers advisor rang and after getting ALL the details said he would get back to me
Local members rang back to say they did no good perhaps and it was suggested that I should buy another one
Fisheries ministers advisor rang back to say fisheries patrols have been notified of my positionand gave me my licence no and expirey date to quote if need be and no need to fork out any money.
Total 4 hours stress to do the right thing without loosing my cool, Wife returns home and goes out to water garden and fills the lost wallet with water. I head to pub and drink the wallet empty, TIP Photo copy your licence :-X :-X :-X :-X :'( :'(

[DICER]

I hope you dried out .... ;D

For a 5 dollar fine and your boat burnt, I don't know how it works. Neither can I understand how the accussed in the Bali Bombings can go out shopping with the police, while overseas drug traffickers can be accelerated to meet Mr Reaper.

[madmix]

what about the poor old pensioner, hervey bay area,
fined for feeding undersized whiting to a pelican.
From memory $5000.00

Just forked out $250 for a speeding fine in the middle of
nowhere. Only paid up as it was cheaper than a lawyer.
the system is definetly stuffed.

Maybe I need and indonesian/west papuan licence

[madmix]

very surprised.......
was expecting to be severely admonished by at least one member
for daring to exceed speed.
Makes me think that ausfish members must be more intelligent
than the pollies. (not hard)
Wonder how Vic opposition party is going to fare at next
election, given their now stated views on speed tolerance versus
speed revenue.
Would also be interesting to hear where the fishing party stands,
I mean??? surely there should be exemptions when the fish are
bitin, you know the story time and tide.
cheers Mick...

[fishlady]

Like your thoughts Andrew. Mine? It's a complex problem but one that is definately not being fixed by taking them into custody, turning the restraunt of our local hotel into a sleepover for indons, feeding them 3 meals a day (varied menu as dictated by world health org), fixing all their medical and dental problems, putting them thru court to get their $5 fines and then popping them on a plane home up to 6wks later. Mate they are back within 6 wks. Locals here are getting to know them after years of them returning!!
Big part of me says put the money into aquaculture ventures up there so they can feed their families and have jobs...at home.
They have been fishing these waters for thousands of years in boats I wouldnt cross the harbour in, they cant store fin etc so dry it(aggh the stench!) so another part says good luck to em.
They ALL know exactly where they are as they are ultimate seafarers.
The "ice boats" (mother ships) should have the crews removed and be used by the navy for target practice, crews processed aboard govt vessel and sent straight home. No free feeds and medical. Guess there are q'tine issues to overcome as soon as they touch land but what about a designated boat to ferry em back. Ice boats can hold tonnes, are up to 100ft long and should be blown out of business along with their usually chinese owners!!

[baldyhead]

Get the hardest working crew and the oldest boat and send them to the AUSTRALIAN R & R CENTRE. That way they get rewarded with a fully paid holiday as well as money to take home. A great incentive for the other indon fishers to work harder so that they can get the ARRC holiday.
By the way, I haven't seen ANY MENTION in any media of ANY FOREIGN AID coming from the INDON GOVT to the Cyclone affected people of Nth QLD.

[blue-mako]

asians asians asians

[vanurose]

Hi Agnes Jack
I am in shock about what you informed us about. I mentioned it to my better half and he said that he doubted the story as we all use whiting for live bait. Or is there a hidden agenda?
You say you know the guy?
Why would anyone be fined $180 for using a whiting for live bait?
Are we missing something here. Are there erroneous laws about live baits that no one knows about? Did this guy elaborate and disclose what he really got fined for?
I have told lots of people about this thread and no one believes me, they think I am exagerating.
If it is true then where is info on live bait usage?
Sorry, but I have received a lot of Flak after mentioning this to other fishos up here in Cairns.
Cheers
Rose

[ShaneC]

Reading from the top of the thread, the judge acknowledged that they didnt know they were fishing in Australian waters illegally (bullsh*t mind you). I wonder if this not knowing theory could be used by anyone who accidently fishes in a reef closure area by 50-100m due to the inaccuracy of GPS at times.....

Mind boggles, probably get done in a big way for something that was a genuine mistake. I'd lay the family jewels that the $5 would probably have at least a couple of 0's added to it.

It crap, if they want to do the crime, cant afford the fine..... oh well, looks like ya doing the time. Tough shit, prison is probably better than their living conditions at home. No sympathy from this little black duck for them......

JMHO......

[agnes_jack]

G'day Rose!!

All live baits must be of legal size and within the bag limits!!!!
Any whiting under the legal size of 23cm is illegal, whether for live bait or to eat, unless it is a winter whiting (Sillago maculata maculata) for which there are no size or bag limit.

There are NO EXEMPTIONS for live baits, and one in your bucket will cost you $180!!! (sucks Ay!!!)
I am not suprised that a lot of people have no idea of the laws when the the rules brochures are so hard to get on a consistent basis!!
We get hundreds of people coming into our shop, particulary from the southern states, that have no idea at all of the legal sizes etc, and it is a very common misconception that it is ok to use small fish for live bait.

To check the rules click on this link----www.dpi.qld.gov.au/fishweb #or phone the dpi call center on-132523

Regards, Tony ;)

[agnes_jack]

Heres another one that may shock you Rose!!

In the regulations it states that "Sea Mullet" have a size limit of 30cm

I rang the DPI to try and clear up any confusion between "poddy mullet" and "sea mullet". I was put onto about 4 different officers who could not tell me how to identify a "sea Mullet". I asked all of them how would they identify one in the case of a prosecution, and they all in turn passed me to another officer!! The last bloke I spoke to got extremely stroppy and said" well its any bloody mullet that swims in the sea!!!"
Some types of mullet are distinctive such as popeye mullet and fantail mullet, but most poddies are simply juvenile mullet that "swim in the sea"

Confusing......... :-?

Regards, Tony

[Lucky_Phill]

Yes Tony, Have to agree on the confusion.

At the moment all that is said is the ' Sea Mullet " ( Mugil cephalus )
has a size limit of 30cms and no bag limit. Poddy just refers to small " bait size " Sea Mullet. So this is a warning, Yes, having poddy mullet in your possession is " illegal ". Go Figure !

The picture accompanying this information is of what you and I would call a common sea mullet. Not a fan tail, popeye or puttynose mullet.

Other names for the Sea Mullet are, Hardgut Mullet, River Mullet, Bully Mullet, Mangrove Mullet.

I think all fishers should be aware of that when cast netting or drag netting, that every ' livie ' they gather may in fact be deemed ' illegal ' by the DPI&F officers depending on species. Just to add a note, when drag netting for bait, it is illegal to sort / drag the net with it's contents completely out of the water. All sorting must be done IN the water. Nearly got done on that one myself a few years ago.........where ? 1770 of course !

Will add pics etc to identify Sea Mullet later.

As for the topic. Good info and opinions all round. Do we file it in F13 ?

Cheers Phill

[hussy]

wonder how fishing inspectors go in crab pots?

[vanurose]

G'day Tony
I really am in shock now at the info you have supplied me and others on this site.
I am now upset at the fact of all the times I have broken the law, innocently.
I will now go and print the rules and show anyone that doubts what I have said.
Oh My God, I have done illegal things and did not know it.
But at least I will never get a fine as I am very aware now of the law
This is why I love ausfish
Thankyou for your time to reply to this post
Cheers
Rose

[vanurose]

I have another querie
I have just bought a packet of poddy mullet from my local tackle store. All the mullet are about 15cm long. If they all have to be 30cm then how come they are all sold undersized. Also some of the slimey mackerel are that size too that I recently bought.
This is getting more confusing as the thread goes on.
Also Phil, I have never seen anyone check their cast net in the water. That would be dangerous too. All the folks up here in Cairns who fish off the Jetty all bring their net onto the planks where they cast from or onto the boat ramp concrete where they are standing. This is ridiculous. I only jig and I have to bring my line next to me where I stand to even let some fish go, instead of hopping into the water to check the end of my line.
This is crazy and I am streesed to the max
Rose

[agnes_jack]

Hi Rose
Yes, this is a fantastic site!!!
The info that I have gained from this site over the years has been invaluable!!
It doesn't matter what info you want, there is an expert in every feild waiting and willing to help you!!

There is no legal size limit or bag limit on Slimey mackeral.
As far as the poddy's you bought go... I am unsure of the regs in other states as to the legal size of "sea mullet" or wether you can purchase #or sell them legally in Queensland if they are caught in another state.
But technically the rules do not allow you to have undersize fish in your POSSESION. If you do purchase any, I would advise that you obtain and carry with you a receipt to prove the purchase and where they came from.

As far as emptying cast nets etc on to a jetty, again technically, this could be deemed illegal!! One could only HOPE that a fisheries officer that witnessed this would use common sense before charging someone with such an offence in crocodile infested waters. (it always pays to be co-operative and friendly towards fisheries officers) ;) ;) ::) ::)

To clarify this more it would pay to give the DPI aring on their "call center" number and note the name of the officer who gives you the info.

Hope that helps a little. :-? :-?

Regards, Tony

PS.Hussy....I don't know how the crabs feel about it.......But I certainly wouldn't want to put one in "MY " mouth ;D ;D ;D

[Lucky_Phill]

Hey Rose, I am unaware of the regs regarding the CAST net ( other than size etc ), just the DRAG net issues I'm up to date with.

I will attempt to dig them out of the Batcave, !!!!

Further. as far as I am aware, Tony, the law states quite clearly " in possession ". There isn't any grey area for, " jeez I bought these in NSW ". The grey area applies to the way you talk to the DPI&F officers, the seriousness of your 'crime' and the attitude of said Officer. If all Officers stuck to the letter of the Law, we'd have our courts clogged to the rafters with simple recreational fisheries offences.

You are dead right, Tony, be co-operative and friendly towards any DPI&F officer, and for that matter Water Police, these people ARE your friends. They may even save your life one day.

Cheers Phill

[thargor]

i dont have any compassion for them... they rape the seas in a way thats completely unsustainable.. thats why they are in our waters, because theirs are empty...

The Australian government imposes restrictions on fishing times throughout the year for commercial and recreational fishos... for the longevity and well being of not only our fishing industry but also the wildlife... then these pricks come along and just pillage... AND GET FINED $5 ... ITS A JOKE! [smiley=angryfire.gif]


I think if you did a little bit of research you will find that the fishing villages in the areas they came from have been fishing there for thousands of years. They rarely ventured to far due to the nature of their boats.

The main reason why they are now in our waters is that the Indonesian government sold fishing rights to foreign interests who then proceeded to "rape" the waters surrounding these fishing villages. It was common to see large Chinese boats towing a net between them, sweeping up everything.

When the seas "dried up" they moved on. Solomons, Fiji are but a few places they went to.

Now these fishing villages have nothing to look forward to. There is no employment, no development no hope. They know fishing and that is all. If you needed to feed your family and all you could do was fish, would you not think that it would be worth the risk coming this way.

As some have posted here before, we need to get to the heart of the problem - the Indonesian government, employment opportunities, triads, corruption, foreign corporations, foreign exploiters.

[Lucky_Phill]

http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/cps/rde/xbcr/dpi/Queensland-recreational-fishing-rules-Aug-2005.pdf

After reading the linked site. There is not a requirement to keep a Cast Net in the water to sort baitfish. There is, of course the Drag Net reg, saying what I said above.

Further, the Sea Mullet is 30cms and No Limit for the bag. I am unable to find the scientific name or picture in the QLD DPI Fisheries site. at this stage. It appears to be all new, and I even had the great result looking for " Tidal Species ". They suggested I look in the " Old Search Engine ". Found the regs, but still no pic or description. ( oh, just found a ' drawing " of the Sea Mullet, oh goodie )



The only other requirement of a Cast Net is that is no more than 3.7mtrs from swivel to bottom ( 12.12ft, in the old scale I reckon ) and the mesh is no greater than 28mm.

Cheers Phill