THE WHITE FELLA EFFECT CAN WE DISCUSS IT SENSIBLY

[johnlikes2fish]

Now we dont often discuss the effect of the white fella on this country but I think its time we did.
OK so whats my problem apart from the obvious psychological issues and some body odour problems.
I have spent many days fishing the East Coast of this country and have noticed the decline of the quality and quantity of fish I catch or rather dont catch, my grandfather also notes that there has been a massive decline in the number of fish and shellfish available.
Ever since these white blokes arrived they have taken everything that moves fish crabs bugs prawns hell they even take the sand off the beach, my cousins inland tell me they have polluted the rivers chopped down most of the trees, hell i here they even pump toilet waste into our rivers and seas.
I remember when you could prawn in the Brisbane River, but those white fellas have taken most of them and what they havent taken isnt worth taking because of the filth in the river.
Now these white fellas are very efficient at "harvesting" the sea they have designed nets to scrape the bottoms, traps to get the crabs, hell they even want to farm fish in moreton bay as they cannot catch enough to fill their pockets with money. dont try and say anything to the white beach netters about leaving some for the recreational fisherman as I can tell you the response is not very nice.
Now I know that there are huge numbers of species struggling to survive in and out of the sea in this country, and I'm pretty sure you can lay the blame at the feet of white folk.
OK so maybe I too am p'd off about the decline of fishing here, but I think its about time we called a white fella a white fella and started too look for someone to blame and I know who I am looking at.
I know this is a sensitive subject but I think we have to be real and do something about the damage done to our Land by these white people.
What do you think.
You didnt take the other one down let this one run too. :)

[blaze]

I'm a "white fella" cant help that, I am also of convict hertige, cant help that either BUT what I can do is treat people all the same on the merits of me doing them no wrong as long as they do me no wrong.
Treat all people the same.
By the very nature of your post you are infering that my forebearins are the reason of your plight, whatever that may be.
If I called you a "black fella" you want to claim discrimination, if you call me a white fella nothing is said.
ITS ABOUT TIME WE AS A NATION TREATED EVERY ONE EQUAL, with out giving some groups of people different benifects and assistances than others.
I think this thread as nought to do with fishing and more to do with poor me.
cheers
blaze

[johnlikes2fish]

its all about perspective, did the reference to Asians elicit the same response in you as this post they are saying the same thing just blaming different people. What makes you think I am black or anything other than White Anglo Saxon.

[Jeremy]

I think this thread as nought to do with fishing and more to do with poor me.


I'll second that, although it does have something to do with fish, most likely red herrings.....

Jeremy

[Jeremy]

Now we dont often discuss the effect of the white fella on this country but I think its time we did.

I wonder whether the indigenous inhabitants of Australia are better or worse off than before English colonisation? They have heavily subsidized housing and other welfare benefits, and can now use outboard powered boats and guns to do their 'traditional' hunting.

If the English didn't claim Australia, would another country have claimed it, and what would it be like instead then?

Jeremy

PS. I am betting that this whole thread will be deleted within a day or two, so enjoy it while it lasts.

[Bundy_Burp]

As for my 2 cents worth a fool is a fool no matter what color he or she is .
There will always be someone who wants to do things to the extreme
The color of his or her skin or there nationality makes no difference .

[johnlikes2fish]

its as much to do with fishing as the Asian problem can we discuss it sensibly post, it seems this one elicits a defensive reaction if you truly treated people the same you would have posted the same defensive response on the Asian fishing post. I'll just mention I am neither asian nor aboriginal, just your average stirrer.

[johnlikes2fish]

You'll have to ask an Aboriginal if they are better off I cant answer for them and neither can you Jeremy

[finding_time]

. I'll just mention I am neither asian nor aboriginal, just your average stirrer.


Really!!!!!......I never would have guessed :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

[Bundy_Burp]

John I know this is a fishing forum and I think I know what sort of bait you are using I'm just not sure what you are expecting to catch. ::)

[mickstar001]

Gee what a waste of the last 60 seconds was of my life reading that post - must be a very bored man John ;D

[Tinn]

John what a waste of time buddy. Got anything of importance to share with us. I shouldn't have even read this post.

John go try catch a fish or something ;D ;D ;D

[jim_farrell]

We can't change what has happened in the past. If you have an axe to grind, find somebody doing the wrong thing today. and we can discuss it. If not, don't waste my time.

[essky]

I think what he is trying to say, is that though we blame many others , be they Asian, or some other ethninc background where thier fishing practices are to keep everything, that we should keep site of the fact that most damage done to our fisheries has been done by the white european settlers over the last 100 years or so with overfishing and bad environemntal practices which has had a negative effect on our environment and fishing.

We cannot argue against this.

You say "my grandfather also notes that there has been a massive decline in the number of fish and shellfish available". Is there a good chance that in his day, he took much more than he needed to. I would be surprised if he did not. We all have heard the stories of how people used to catch fish by the sugar bag full. It was a time of plenty, so we cannot blame them. I think we only appreciate what we got now, because we have noticed now just how much worse it is now to what it could/should be.

If you look at the condition of the river.. You cannot blame people for living in a city, unless you live up in the hills, with no power, or any mod cons.

To cut a long story short, . I think the important thing is to learn from the past and not repeat those mistakes. This means educating people on bag and size limits, pollution and water quality, effects of taking breeding stock, etc.

I think if everyone were more aware of such issues, we may stop seeing a decline, and who knows, maybe an improvement.

Unfortunately, some people are harder to educate than others..or they don't want to know.

[roz]

Gee what a waste of the last 60 seconds was of my life reading that post - must be a very bored man John ;D

mickstar001

Almost as ridiculous as one of your comments I read just a few minutes ago on another topic.

[johnlikes2fish]

The post I put up is virtually the same as Asian fishing effect post check it and see only the skin colour changed, the other thing that has changed is the nature of the response from the readers. i just wanted to point out that everyone has had a go at ruining this place and the idea that is the sole result of Asian origin Australians is ridiculous.

[PinHead]

Now we dont often discuss the effect of the white fella on this country but I think its time we did.

I wonder whether the indigenous inhabitants of Australia are better or worse off than before English colonisation? They have heavily subsidized housing and other welfare benefits, and can now use outboard powered boats and guns to do their 'traditional' hunting.

If the English didn't claim Australia, would another country have claimed it, and what would it be like instead then?

Jeremy

PS. I am betting that this whole thread will be deleted within a day or two, so enjoy it while it lasts.

why should it be deleted..the Asian one is still alive and well

The poor indigenous folk...dragged onto reserves..given alcohol..kids taken away...grand huh

[lippa]

i beleive the "asian" topic you you have stated was more to do with the illegal bulk harvest of certain marine species. man has an impact wherever he is regardless black white gren blue or stuffin' purple. i can remeber being on a feild trip whilst at school in sydney. the aboriginal (or should i have said indiginous australian?) showed us midden burials and explained as one area was depleted they would(indiginous people) move along the banks to find new ground. state some facts with your topic,as was in the "asian" thread, and give people the right to reply to intelligent discussion, other than that, this thread will be a waste of time!

cheers

lippa

[fishingnottake]

its as much to do with fishing as the Asian problem can we discuss it sensibly post, it seems this one elicits a defensive reaction if you truly treated people the same you would have posted the same defensive response on the Asian fishing post. I'll just mention I am neither asian nor aboriginal, just your average stirrer.

Hi I'll be fishing this comp as I have most years its been on. Its a great comp because its over quick and the weigh in and raffles are good fun. I'm probably going to head a little south to fish look for a blue Frontera QLD plates and a follickly challenged black fella and say g'day.
that being said, the "asian post" was in response to the continued and flagrant violation of regulations by some members of the community, and all sides have already been addressed in there, this post just smacks of an ill concieved, poorly written dig... ahhh i'm leaving it at that.... this post could of been done properly so it actually had some sort of relevance, and might of actually elicted some sort of reasoned discussion, now it;s all wasted.
thanks mate, seriously
ashley

[bidkev]

The post I put up is virtually the same as Asian fishing effect post check it and see only the skin colour changed, the other thing that has changed is the nature of the response from the readers. i just wanted to point out that everyone has had a go at ruining this place and the idea that is the sole result of Asian origin Australians is ridiculous.


No mate, your post is not "virtually the same" and IMHO does not even bear a resemblance to it.

The original "asian post" was aimed at debating the breaking of the laws of this land by a particular culture/ethnicity, whether through ignorance or simply through total refusal to adhere to, and absolute disregard for, those laws.

The things that you mention were in the main, done through ignorance and not through total disregard for the law and a refusual to 'assimilate/integrate"

kev

[johnlikes2fish]

Continued beach netting of Mullet and Tailor done in ignorance of the consequences.

[ozkat]

I lived in central QLD for a few years and have had a fair bit to do with our Aboriginal cousins. Yeah im a "white fella" Ive played in footy teams where i was the only whitey. I think the aboriginal fellas get a pretty good deal. I mean i really think they were lucky to have europeans settle in Australia first and not the Japanese or Indonesions. If one of those countries had claimed Australia as theirs i dont think there would be any Aboriginals or fish left.

[gogecko]

I liked the post, even tho it should be in the humor section.

Our indiginous brothers are making native title claims on
Arnham land, Sacred land and Liquorland, why not take our fish too?

Sorry, couldnt help myself. Sometimes I really should count to 10 before I post.

[nuthead]

It came across to me that the similarity between the posts was not about illegal practices as such but practices or processes that have caused degradation to fish stocks...

I could be mistaken but I think the point john was making is that race is irrelevant when considering this problem in our country (or all over the world to be precise) since virtually every race has had a hand in getting the fish stocks to the way they are today (population vs resources is really the issue) the have an inverse relationship - ie. as population rises resources decline.... there are of course exceptions to the model but its by and large a rule that you can go by.


I mean i really think they were lucky to have europeans settle in Australia first

you can't be serious right? I don't think aboriginals were lucky at all in having anyone settle in their country... settlers at the time actually did try to wipe them out ::)

[ozkat]

It came across to me that the similarity between the posts was not about illegal practices as such but practices or processes that have caused degradation to fish stocks...

I could be mistaken but I think the point john was making is that race is irrelevant when considering this problem in our country (or all over the world to be precise) since virtually every race has had a hand in getting the fish stocks to the way they are today (population vs resources is really the issue) the have an inverse relationship - ie. as population rises resources decline.... there are of course exceptions to the model but its by and large a rule that you can go by.


I mean i really think they were lucky to have europeans settle in Australia first

you can't be serious right? I don't think aboriginals were lucky at all in having anyone settle in their country... settlers at the time actually did try to wipe them out ::) yeah mate im very serious

[johnlikes2fish]

When I was a kid fishing in and around Sydney Harbour it was the Greeks and the Italians taking all the undersize fish (mostly scad yakkas or yellowtail whatever you want to call them) to make fishcakes that was causing the decline in fish stocks in the harbour, the reallity was more than likely the disgusting state of the harbour not the taking of small fish although this no doubt contributed in a small way. So this time its the Asians who will it be next.

[Viking]

The Asian post addressed current issues, this post has a slant towards what happened over 200 years ago during Colonialisation - very different posts IMO and no relevance to each other. If the original poster wants things to be how they used to be then go and live in a mission in the Northern Territory or WA, live completely off the land don't work don't collect welfare don't buy anything produced by any industrialised or modern society because you won't have the money to do so. Whilst you're living in modern Australian society sitting in your European inspired dwelling, using electricity and electronic equipment like your computer to connect to the net then don't winge about this country being colonialised because you are conforming to that colonialism by being a part of it. We all have a choice of how and where we live - what's your choice? Thought so, now stop your whinging.

[choppa]

sunshine coast daily newspaper of todays date has an article that slams the recreational fisho,,,,

it states (from a brief read) that the rec's have taken more in quota than the pro's in a desiginated period,,,,,,(i'll get copy sent down and post),,,,,,,,alas it didn't say whether the rec's were colored or not unfortunately

by the way,,,, any news on the crabbers that were caught????????? (now i know for a fact they were colored,,,,,,,,,,,,,""""""white""""""

[johnlikes2fish]

Hi Viking you will notice the lack of personal attacks up until your contribution a personal attack over a medium such as this suggests a lot about your character I want to say or lack there of but I'll hold back oops it slipped out, did you even bother to read the post, at no time did I even mention any thing to do with Aborigines I think you already had your opinion on Aborigines formed before reading my post check racist in the dictionary ooh a picture of you. The issues in my post are current over fishing, pumping crap into the sea, ruining our rivers and blaming non white australians are the issues. I particularly liked the rant about welfare etc what about the possibility I am having kids to get more welfare, spending my welfare on booze any more generalisations.

[hussy]

should be jones likes to racially villify,whites. very dissapointing . hussy
ps i cant call you black fella ,so dont call me white fella. pretty piss poor when we have a fishing forum , and have to put up with racial taunts . get over it ,we have to

[Darryl]

What Lippa said, and i will add that some of you could or should go back and read the content of The Asian Effect thread again and it might SINK in. But i doubt it.

The Asian Effect thread was put up in regard to ASIAN people STEALING PRAWNS.. Not about racial bullshit.

Although you have some very valid points.

Darryl.

[wayne_cook]

If Aus had the same population as it has now but all aboriginal.I believe the fish stocks would be worse off.
After all they were hunters and gathers,with the use of white fella materials how profecciant could they be.
Just think no food imports no growing or farming all food has to be gathered to feed the masses.I don't think there would be much left. imo


Darryl luv that cat

[theoldlegend]

"Ethnicity".

Geez Kev, steady on!! :o

Try saying that 3 times quickly after 27 rum & cokes. ;)

TOL

[hussy]

i agree totally daryl it was not racial at all. hussy

[lippa]

i can't say it after a cuppa, let alone after a bottle of bundy's finest! ;D

cheers

lippa

[Darryl]

The cats da bomb , gets more attention than me the thing. You would be surprised on how many pm's i get from strangers about my cat. :-/

Anyways, on with the show . ;D

Darryl.

[frankj]

I don't think there would be any culture in the world that wouldn't like to have done some things differently. Some things they are proud of and some they would rather hadn't happened.
But the fact is that you can't turn back the clock. What you can do is to try to learn from your mistakes and modify future behaviour.
This site is focussed on fishing, the fact that some of our forebears may have acted in what today would be viewed as unacceptable behaviour is history.
When something occurs that is unacceptable behaviour by todays standards and it is fishing/boating related, it doesn't matter whether the perpetrators are white black or some shade in between, most people on this site would be offended by it and comment. If the comments influence the behaviour so that it changes for the good then it was worth while.
The"Asian" post was trying to make a valid point that some members of our community were ignoring the rules and this was impacting on the fishing environment. A few weeks ago it was the rich and famous travelling too fast in their 50 foot cruisers in the Broadwater.
Next time it will be some other party that isn't doing the right thing.
Notice though, that the focus is on what and who we can influence now and in the future, not what happened in the past.

There has been plenty of critisism of "white fellas" doing the wrong thing, so I really think you are barking up the wrong tree.

[blaze]

Frank
I would like to congratulate you on post, probable what I would say if I was more articulate with words
cheers
blaze

[choppa]

When something occurs that is unacceptable behaviour by todays standards and it is fishing/boating related, it doesn't matter whether the perpetrators are white black or some shade in between, most people on this site would be offended by it and comment. #If the comments influence the behaviour so that it changes for the good then it was worth while. #
The"Asian" post was trying to make a valid point that some members of our community were ignoring the rules and this was impacting on the fishing environment. #A few weeks ago it was the rich and famous travelling too fast in their 50 foot cruisers in the Broadwater.


#
There has been plenty of critisism of "white fellas" doing the wrong thing, so I really think you are barking up the wrong tree. #


now thats a response,,,,and about the only sensible one yet,,,,,,,,

[barradise]

Does this mean that we won't be SMSing every body at Bondi???

[Owen]

Does this mean that we won't be SMSing every body at Bondi???

Why?
You want a mass gathering of Kiwis? ::) :-X

cheers,
Owen

[flatstrap]

You guys just don't get it! By mentioning the racial appearance of a person you are discriminating. If you only do it because they are different from you, that's discrimination.

discriminate: To make a distinction for or against a person on the basis of the group to which the persons belong rather than on individual merit.

In practice, you should say, I saw a bast*%d this morning scraping bloody periwinkles off the rocks by the beach. You can't say "I saw an Asian scraping periwinkles....etc. It may be trivial but it's offensive to discriminate on that basis. Asians that come to this country really try to assimilate within the Australian population. One thing they cannot change is their appearance. To be constantly singled out by racial features is infantile mentality. Once they are in this country, working and paying taxes, they are Australians, as we all are.

I notice the lack of passion when criticising Caucasians. The ol' harpoon wasn't mentioned once. THe Caucasians caught with illegal crabs were only mentioned once. You can dish it out but you can't take it.

"If we were to wake up some morning and find that everyone was the same race, creed and colour, we would find some other cause for prejudice by noon." George Aiken

[el_carpo]

Buenos dias mi Australiano gringo y otra amigos (I think I said that right but who knows) ;D,

I don't really have anything to say honkie fishing effect topic wise, but I enjoy these witty sayings I've been seeing at the end of posts. Here are a few from a funny site I've seen....

[el_carpo]

.

[el_carpo]

.

[el_carpo]

.

[el_carpo]

Last one. ;D

[el_carpo]

This horse died ages ago. Perhaps we all ought to quit while we're behind. No need to keep going until someone says something they'll regret. If it hasn't been said by now (within these two huge threads) it probably doesn't need saying. Not that I know what I'm talking about or anything, but it just seems like a good time to move on.

[Jeremy]

In practice, you should say, I saw a bast*%d this morning scraping #bloody periwinkles off the rocks by the beach. You can't say "I saw an Asian scraping periwinkles....etc. It may be trivial but it's offensive to discriminate on that basis.

That is an absolute crock flatstrap. It is not discrimination, simply an accurate description. Call it as it is, whether they are asian, kiwi, american, black, white, yellow, whatever.

People should have the balls to be counted for what they are, not hide behind racial or discriminatory issues as you consistently propose.

Jeremy

[karana]

At the outset let me say I am for indigenous fishing rights. A bark canoe, a spear maybe a fish trap or two and net made from native vines. After that you live with progress. You use the same equipment and the same laws apply.

[flatstrap]

For CH&#@'S sake Jeremy,
Why then isn't it common to say," I saw two Caucasians catching and keeping undersized female crabs?"

or The worst mass murder in the world was that Caucasian Martyn Bryant...
I'll say it for you...Because it is IRRELEVANT to the POINT of the story..

BTW some people can't possibly have the balls etc... because it's not a requisite to making accurate statements and they could be female.
AH, prejudice is alive and well.

"On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog." Peter Steiner in the New Yorker 5/93

[essky]

In practice, you should say, I saw a bast*%d this morning scraping #bloody periwinkles off the rocks by the beach. You can't say "I saw an Asian scraping periwinkles....etc. It may be trivial but it's offensive to discriminate on that basis.

That is an absolute crock flatstrap. It is not discrimination, simply an accurate description. Call it as it is, whether they are asian, kiwi, american, black, white, yellow, whatever.

People should have the balls to be counted for what they are, not hide behind racial or discriminatory issues as you consistently propose.

Jeremy

If everybody was politically correct, you would not be able see where a problem lies. If you needed to work on a problem it would be easier to work on the Asian, or European Bars*%ds, then all of the Bars*%ds in the world. That would be too big of a job.

[Jeremy]

For CH&#@'S sake Jeremy,
Why then isn't it common to say," I saw two Caucasians catching and keeping undersized female crabs?"

or The worst mass murder in the world was that Caucasian Martyn Bryant...
I'll say it for you...Because it is IRRELEVANT to the POINT of the story..

BTW some people can't possibly have the balls etc... because it's not a requisite to making accurate statements and they could be female.
AH, prejudice is alive and well.

"On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog." #Peter Steiner in the New Yorker 5/93

point is, it ain't discrimination unless you discriminate. Describing someone committing an offence by their race or religion or ethnicity or whatever is just that, a description, and nothing more.

Jeremy

[Viking]

Johnlikes2fish you will note that i never mentioned Aboriginals at any time. Yes i did mention the missions but i was not referring to Aboriginals - you drew that inference yourself. The reason i mentioned the missions of NT and WA is because they are the only communities left in this country and for most parts of the world for that matter that still largely live a subsistence type of lifetsyle where they don't rely on modern or industrialised trappings for their comfort. They don't work they may not collect welfare and they don't need to because they are living off the natural envrionment - not a bad thing. You indicate you are sick of the pollution and destruction of this country by Caucasian Australians i merely suggested to you that you could choose an alternative by living in one of these areas that are for the large part still in pristine condition untouched by modern settlement. So i was not using the missions in the context of Aboriginals i was using them in the context that there are traditional communities that exist in pristine areas of this country. I don't consider that racist or a personal attack on you.

Quote from Johnlikes2fish "I particularly liked the rant about welfare etc what about the possibility I am having kids to get more welfare, spending my welfare on booze".

At no time did i mention anything about any group of people collecting welfare. I said go to one of these areas and don't work don't collect welfare - referring to not having any source of income so you can't buy any material possessions that contribute to pollution and damage to the environment. It is a shame that you suggest Aboriginal people have kids to get welfare and spend their welfare on booze - is that your perception of Aboriginal people is it because it is not mine. So not only have you racially vilified Caucasian Australians you have also falsely formed a preconceived notion of what you consider to be an Aboriginal person, well done. Mate i have personally lived and worked in missions in Qld and i can tell you it is the minority of Aboriginals that use their welfare on booze - talk to the elders they are disgusted by the behaviour of their few people who do this.

Your original post is flawed.
Example: You blame Caucasian Australians for polluting the waterways and pumping sewerage into the ocean. Correct me if i'm wrong but don't we all crap and pea into the same sewer line. I'm pretty sure my Croatian neighbour doesn't have a separate sewer system to mine one or my other Caucasian Australian neighbour's one. There are many people here from different countries and ethnic groups we all contribute to this not just Caucasian Australians.

To get your original post on the right track why don't you mention a CURRENT and SPECIFIC example of how ONLY Caucasian Australians have depleted fishing stocks / damaged waterways etc. If you do this I think you will find most people will reply agreeing with you, myself included.

[johnlikes2fish]

I'll say it again the original post makes no mention whatsoever of Aborigines, how they even came into this I'll never know. The only group of people mentioned were white fellas. But in all honesty the original post was mostly meant to be humourous while pointing out the ridiculousness of blaming one section of Australians (not Asians or Greeks or Italians or Lebanese or Sudanese or Anglo saxons) for something every Australian has done at one time or another and are still doing.
But for those of us that have never been called a Greek, a black, a Leb maybe the feeling you got when reading the original post gives you an idea of how those Australians feel when they are called those terms.

[frankj]

What about the whingeing Poms? ;)

Can't wait for the ashes series. ::)

Time to lighten up fellas. :)

I am one by the way, but I don't whinge much, just laugh most of the time ;D ;D

[nuthead]

:D bloody poms... they already sent all their best people here (and now the rest of them want to move over!)

[bidkev]

:D bloody poms... they already sent all their best people here (and now the rest of them want to move over!)


They didn't send 'em mate, they're just rats deserting a sinking ship ;) ;D


I find it very strange that many nurses can't wait to get out of the UK National Health Service to come here and practice, whilst at the same time, that health service has many nurses from Oz who just love it there? I know my deckie wouldn't go back even if they doubled her salary :o

kev

[nuthead]

:D hehe - working in England for a few years almost seems to be a rite of passage for young australians doesn't it? and judging by the number of you pommy bastards here it seems to be the same in england...! :)

a point of interest but totally off topic (or maybe not really :)) but did you know how the word 'pom' first came about?



THE POMMIES: OR NEW CHUMS in AUSTRALIA (1920) by H. J. Rumsey

Introduction: Few people seem to know the origin of the word, but I can well remember its introduction in the early seventies [[1870s]] . . . Thousands of immigrants were arriving by the old clipper ships, and the colonial boys and girls, like all schoolchildren, ready to find a nickname, were fond of rhyming ‘Immigrant,’ ‘Jimmygrant,’ ‘Pommegrant’ and called it after the new chum children. The name stuck and became abbreviated ‘pommy’ later on.

disclaimer: I'm not sure if this is the real etymological beginnings of the term 'pom' (but it sounds reasonable)

[johnlikes2fish]

Viking if I misinterpreted your post I am happy to say I was wrong, for an example of someone doing wrong how about Keith williams (he just has a good tan) and Hinchinbrook but as my post implies its not any particular segment of society plenty of us are doing wrong and pointing the finger at one section only seeks to alienate that group.

[gogecko]

One young kid had been telling his dad that the school bus driver was making all the black kids sit at the back of the bus. Dad said why dont you tell him "that if god made us all the same color, like if we were all green, then there would be no more more issues and nobody would be different and we could all just love each other and get along. Lets pretend were all green today".

The next day, the kid got on the bus, and the bus driver said, "ok all you black kids move to the back of the bus". The brave boy got up and told the bus driver his story about how we should all be green and all just love each other.

The bus driver thought about this for a few moments and said "I think youre right son.................... OK, all you dark green kids to the back of the bus, all the light green ones to the front"


Andrew

[jim_farrell]

I am cursing myself for continuing this thread but anyway.

If I, moved to pakistan, nigeria or the highlands of Papua New Guinea, I would be referred to as white or western. That is because my color would be in the minority and therefor identifiable as such.
An individual of asian appearance or an indigineous person fishing in moreton bay whether they are doing the right thing or not may be referred to as asian or indigineous because that is their most identifiable trait.
I was born in Papua and was called white, do I find it offensive, no, I am white. It is just a fact, not racist.
Without getting personal, caucasian was not put in front of martin bryant for the same reason as middle eastern is not put in front of Saddam Hussien.
Jim

[karana]

POME=Pommie=Prisoner Of Mother England.

[gawby]

I find the original post to be of a racial matter and insulting.
To infer that you had black skin and now infact that you are white skinned is not even that of a poor joke.
I have lived amongst black people and for that matter some of them are better human beings than whites.
Further to that we have black blood heritage in the family and are proud of it.
Your post has no resemblance to the asain post.
This is my two bobs worth weather you like it or not.
Graeme

[lippa]

on your pursuit of political corectness flatstrap, why have you not commented on the topic title? i beleive it contained the term "white fella" if i have missed somthing i appologise and retract this comment. didn't we talk about backyards in another thread?

cheers

lippa

[el_carpo]

Gawby,

I saw a movie from Australia called, "Rabbit Proof Fence" recently. It was about three little Australian Aboriginal girls who ran away from a reservation type camp and crossed the outback ALONE to get back to their parents. :o

If they are any indication of the toughness and grit that the aboriginals have, then I'd say you're right to be proud of your heritage gawby. That was one of the most amazing stories I've ever heard. I'm an adult male and I like to hike but I'm telling you right now that there's no way I'd survive a walk across the Australian desert. I'd probably die halfway through the first day! ;D

Totally amazing! Anyone who can survive that has got my respect times a thousand!

[gawby]

El carpo,
Your right that was a good movie i saw it some time ago.
It realy shows what went on in the days of stupid government in australia.
Just for the record the black fella part in my family is on my wife's side and dosn't bother me one bit.
I have a real good friend in the trucking game and he calls me whitie and i call him darkie. Its realy good when you can converse with each other like this when things have become so politically correct these days. ;)
Graeme

[Fat Chilli]

My 2 cents:

All the talk about Colonialisation,hmmm. What few countries there are in the world that have never been invaded or taken over at some stage during their history?

Just to throw a snanner in the works:

Similar to the Green House affect, caused by industry etc. may be it is expediting the green house situation, but why should good o'l Mother Nature suddenly stop evolving because we have what we consider to be technology, is it that we are actually still coming out of an ice age?

Evolution! ::)

[PinHead]

el-carpo..that movie is based on a true story.

[johnlikes2fish]

I find the original post to be of a racial matter and insulting.
To infer that you had black skin and now infact that you are white skinned is not even that of a poor joke.
I have lived amongst black people and for that matter some of them are better human beings than whites.
Further to that we have black blood heritage in the family and are proud of it.
Your post has no resemblance to the asain post.
This is my two bobs worth weather you like it or not.
Graeme
Hi Graeme I never mentioned my skin colour or ethnic origin what is the relevance of my skin colour to the point I was making. But if it makes you feel better I'll be black. Does it change your view?

[Darryl]

I suspect more threads will be on there way like this now the weather is crap for a week or so.

[johnlikes2fish]

Hi Gawby I'm glad you have a friend but if you walked up to me any of my black relatives and probably most of my black friends and called us darky or blacky I'm pretty sure you wouldnt get such a nice reception why because most of us have been subject to your humourous racial taunts, would your friend be so accomadating if you called his parents that to thier face. you could just use thier name thats why people have them. I'll remember though next time I see an overweight person in the street to go up and say hi you fat ..... because its better when we can converse like this instead of being civil check the definitions of political correctness and just plain rudeness.

[griz066]

THE END ::)

[solwota]

i know this thread should be over but i've been offline for a couple of days and just cant resist.. i liked you post johnlikes2fish. i think most of you(not all) missed the point. rascism is not about terms like blackfella and whitefella od asian for that matter. i too have lived in an indigenous community and refered to myself as a whitefella with no problems. there's far to much to write here but just google "dominant race theory" and that should give you a bit more insight into my thoughts. a few of you should reread your posts.
one last thing....
it has been my observation that all groups of people have been guilty of overharvesting when assisted by new technology or when blessed with a new found abundant resource. anybody over 35yo on this site who claims they have never killed more fish than there needs is most likely lying. does this mean we should be identified as a group for discrimination. i guess my point is we have changed our ways as we learn't of the damage we were causing. possibly a redirection of the passion involved in this debate in a more compasionate a caring direction could have a more positive result than singling out any group and thereby excluding them from "our" community. in a time of dwindling community spirit this could surely result in a better outcome

just couln't resist
richard

ps good for you johnlikes2fish i also found the suggestion that we disscuss the "asian effect" quite distasteful

[Tinn]

Can't believe you guys are still going on this topic. Looks like the weather is bad for a while so this thread is going to continue

There is no end to this discussion it will just keep going and going and going

[hussy]

hey johnlikes2fish are you back to being black again make up your mind you have me really confused now . hussy #( white hmmmm black hmmm white again ? one minuite you are neither asian or aboriginal just your average stirrer, next minute if anyone calls your black rellies or friends blackies , idont think you are a stirrer i think you are just a waste of a post with no regards to fishiong what so ever, got me stuffed

[daggsy]

i have been amused with all the comments regarding what is possibly a sensible issue to discuss. Unfortunately when race, creed or colour is introduced it stirs emotion which clouds sensible discussion.
Governments, lobby groups and people should realise where we are now and plan for the future.
Why would it matter what what colour you are.
Take only what you need and leave some for next time.

[el_carpo]

el-carpo..that movie is based on a true story.

I know. I own the dvd and was watching it through wondering if it was real or not. When they said that it really happened, my eyes bugged out! ;D It said that those kids got caught twice after their first trip and did it again two more times! :o :o :o

What was really cool was that they showed one of the girls in the present day (well, when the movie was made at least). Of course, she is an elderly woman now but she still had her mind sharp. I don't know if she's still around or not but she and her sister and their friend are national heroes. Incredible, though tragic story. They were made of some strong stuff for sure. It's one thing to survive three trips across the desert but to do it while evading detection! Whew!

It's just amazing!

[johnlikes2fish]

Hi hussy where did I say was white I cant find it any of my posts and why do you have to an Aborigine to be black (African, west Indian, Papuan, TI etc) they dont have a copyright on being black are you reading whats there or what. and I'll say it again why does it matter what colour I am it has nothing to with the post it only concerns you (mmmm) personally I dont care what you look like its what you act like. If the original post regarding over fishing and environmenatl damage has nothing to with fishing neither does the asian post but these are issues that are central to fishing, but the original post was to highlight that lots of people have done damage and that attributing it to a particular group is racist if you dont think it is that is probably because you dont belong to the group mentioned but you are firing once the word white is mentioned. You are spending most of your time trying to discredit me thats not too hard I never said I was credible, but my argument is, the majority of damage to our fisheries comes from western society which is predominately anglo saxon your going to want an example I guess how about the Northern European Cod fisheries, Exon Valdez etc etc etc. This does not say that other people havent done heaps as well. japanese long liners etc etc
Now to save you time hussy I am a liar at various times, I bend arguments to suit my own purpose, when I worked I chucked sickies (retired at 30 no government handouts have ever crossed my palm) now thats me discredited now work on discrediting my arguments.
And as regards calling me or most people I know blacky or darky I think you can work out that to me and most people that is unnacceptable if you dont think it is head down to the valley or redfern and give it a go I am sure you will be advised as to the appropriateness of it. As I've said is it acceptable to walk up to a large person and say hi you fat ..... how are you doing.

[ibbo]

THE END..........

PLEASE

IBBO

[gropeher]

IM NOT RACIAST,

However I can tell you that the majority of the undersize fish and overtaking of species are by the coloured people, the Moari's INFACT, alot of that is due to no flout to the law, and the interpretation that the world owes them a living and they own the land.

Just look at all the reclaiming of land titles etc that have gone on.

My tribe was awarded $360,000,000 several years ago, (I can make a claim on that if I like, or my kids can, who live here!) even though my wife is Australian, The Ngai Tahu Tribe (Iam part off) of the South Island through Fisheries and forestry entiltilements as the Moaris felt they got ripped off years ago.

I'll have none of it. If you buy my house today, would it be alright if I claim some back in 200 years time for my ancestors!

[tunaman]

Gentman! Please! I can smell lawsuits!
And over the net!It can happen.







signed tunaman :D

[rough_shag]

Crikey!!! seems like raw nerve territory here.Oh well in for a penny......Would you want to live in a pristine environment surrounded by pristine nature and in harmony with the world just like indigenous peoples all around the globe used to do?you'd be mad not to want that.BUT the fact is that in nature the strong survive and for most indigenous peoples around the world they were invaded by Europeans who were stronger and now dominate their once traditional lands.
Personally I would prefer to live in the manner indigenous peoples lived in the past, without all the diseases and stresses we have today, but we have to accept our current situation and hopefully learn from past mistakes.I believe the overriding reason for a lot of our 'mistakes' with the environment are due to GREED.Greed is a natural survival instinct(like a squirrel stashing as many nuts as it can find before winter sets in), however we have one small edge in the survival stakes - we have higher intellect- lets hope we use it for the right reasons.
As for indigenous peoples,well you were invaded by superior peoples and taken over.As time goes by intermingling will slowly dissolve away genetic identities and past cultures will only be preserved in museums/literature for posterity.The progressive intellect of white Europeans has conquered all the indigenous races of the world and if I belonged to one of these peoples I would be angry and feel threatened with good reason too.But it ain't gunna change now, so I'd be putting my energy into something positive.Jace.

[hardb8]

I reckon this thread has gone in the wrong direction,Personaly I pick up other peoples crap that's been left lying around when I'm fishing.I know this is a small contribution to the problem,(But it is something)Upon looking back over the bank I've just walked seeing it clean of rubbish I feel good inside.I am guilty of keeping more than needed in my youth but upon being educated through various avenues,This has changed dramaticly.I can see a brighter future for our country's enviorment through an educated generation.This will take time but if we have a common goal it will happen.

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #Regards hardb8 #;)

[PinHead]

As for indigenous peoples,well you were invaded by superior peoples and taken over.
# #

Jace..that would have to be one of the most discriminatory lines I have ever seen on here.

Superior..in what way?
Could the early settlers live off the land without guns? nope
Could the early settlers live without shelter? nope
Could the early settlers know where the water is..other than the easy to find rivers? nope

The indigineous people had the place pretty well sorted out then some other mob arrive and went about stuffing their entire situation...but I guess that is progress...and progress marches on and everything as we know it will change in time also..some for the better..some not but I doubt any of us can change it much.

[-Henno-]

Regarding whether or not the aboriginals were 'lucky' that it was the English that 'invaded' their country let me say this. I was doing business once with a lovely old Balinese lady. One day our conversation turned to the Dutch settling Indonesia and she just said out of the blue "You know Mark, your aboriginese complain about the English people coming and taking there country, they were bloody lucky they not get the Dutch!" Her words not mine, and I also do not admit to knowing anything about the Dutch colonisation of Indo and if they were crueller or generally nastier than the English myself.

Regarding the fish stocks going down due to white colonisation I once had a girlfriend who wrote her thesis on a popular theory of the Australian aboriginal population contributing to the extinction of Australian megaflora and megafauna due to fire stick farming. Bored me to tears if she spoke about it for more than 2 minutes though. Of course there are other cases of 'native' populations driving animals to extinction. I think the Maoris did it with the Moa and several other large flightless birds in New Zealand which in turn led to a major loss of other species including the greatest eagle on earth the Haast eagle. I know they haven't been there for millions of years like the Australian indigineous people.

My point is that no humans live completely in harmony with their local environments. Wherever we go we stuff it up no matter what colour we are. Admittedly the rate that we are doing it now has skyrocketed. The current rate of extinction is from 100 to 10,000 species a year. This is between 100 and 1000 times faster than our best estimate of historical rates.

Just my two bobs
Mark