How do you release the swim bladder?

[scoota]

We do a lot of offshore fishing and I would appreciate any suggestions on releasing the swim bladder of cod, tuskfish, wrasse family, chinaman etc. An old pro showed me years ago to use a sharp point and insert just behind the pectoral fin to release the bladder and has been very successful for us but not 100%. Is there a way to guarantee fish survival and what do you use and where do you insert? I have seen on documentaries the use of hypodermic needles but never tried this approach.
Any feedback would be appreciated.
Scoota....

[thesimmos]

Hello Scoota,

I had a quick browse on google for you and found the following.

Don’t try to force the stomach or other organs back into the body cavity. DO NOT vent the gases by puncturing the protruding stomach or going through the anus. The fish will probably swim away but won’t live.

Use a deflating tool (an atheletic ball inflation needle ground to a sharp point or a carpet needle).
Insert it through the thin part of the body wall on the underside of the belly below the pectoral fin.
Squeeze the fish gently to force the gases out through the tube or needle.
Do this quickly and very soon after capture
Release the fish holding him in the water until he can swim away.


References:
http://www.catchandreleasefound.org/deflate.htm
http://www.insideline.net/1999/sak-0102-99.htm

Click on the below for how I searched:
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=deflate+the+swim+bladder&meta=


Simmo

[Biff]

If it doesn't feel like a keeper bring it up slow or see if the fish can get it self off down deep by giving it some slack line, once off, wind up quick, rebait and drop again.

Biff

[Owen]

I went on a charter a while back and the skipper had to put back some bloody big chinamen and various undersized cod etc.
For the big brutes he used a large lead weight on a rope line. Lightly pinned the fish with I assume a barbless hook and dropped them down, then pulled the hook out.
For the smaller ones he had what I could best decibe as a bucket made out of netting with weights around the rim to keep it inverted. Drop it over them and send them back down.

Didn't see any come back up, so I assume it works.


Cheers,
Owen

[thesimmos]

Sounds reassuring... we should do that for divers that come up too fast maybe?

Simmo

[Owen]

The mafia's been using a modified version for years.... none of theirs come back up either ::)

cheers,
Owen

[choppa]

I went on a charter a while back and the skipper had to put back some bloody big chinamen and various undersized cod etc.
For the big brutes he used a large lead weight on a rope line. #Lightly pinned the fish with I assume a barbless hook and dropped them down, then pulled the hook out.
For the smaller ones he had what I could best decibe as a bucket made out of netting with weights around the rim to keep it inverted. #Drop it over them and send them back down.

Didn't see any come back up, so I assume it works.


Cheers,
Owen

owen,,, what you witnessed was probably along the lines of a device that was funded by the FRDC and proved to be successful by the inventor,, garry Lilley,,,

its a release weight that is cast around a barbless hook, and tethered to a drop line,,

the method is simple,,,,after capture, you lip the fish and return it back in the water,,, the weight take it back down gradually,, and when it reaches the desired depth ( and by this time,,recompression has occured) you tug the dropline to relase the critter and off it goes,,

i'm doing the post an injustice by given it such a non graphic description,,, but honestly the FRDC conducted time,,, $,,,, and man power to see that the survival rate of release fish improved,,,,,, and yep it did

(i'm cynical,,, cause it took 10 years according to the report to convince fisheries that the weight worked,, and that was mainly because RECFISH got ivolved)

simple device,,,, bomb made from lead,,,,big hook,,,,,eye to tie dropline to,,,,fish to release,,


choppa

[agnes_jack]

Every boat fishing offshore should be carrying a release dropper weight in my opinion!!! Providing the fish doesn't pop its eyeballs, most fish have a lot better chance of survival using one of these devices. Surgery has been shown to have a low survival rate compared to the droppers.
The device consists of a large snapper lead (16oz or better) with a 10/0-12/0 stainless hook with the barb ground off, set into the top. A swivel is placed over the hook with cord attached and a crimp is placed at the top of the hook bend, to stop the swivel sliding off. Hook the device into the lower jaw and steadily allow the fish to lower back to the bottom. Give it a few shakes and a yank and the weight is pulled out, allowing the fish to swim away, recommpressed. Brilliant idea!!!!!

Regards, Tony

PS.........Will take a photo and put it up tommorrow ;)

[scuttlebutt]

Providing the fish doesn't pop its eyeballs

That's an important point, cause once that happens, I believe irreversable damage has been caused. In my experience Chinamen Fish don't cope very well with being brought up from even 60 feet, even after the swim bladder has been deflated. Various fish seem to have differing levels of sensitivity in this regard.

cheers,

steve

[scoota]

Thanks for the replies,
Really like the release dropper idea and will be constructing one before the next trip. Never have been comfortable puncturing any part of a fish even though I've been told the fish recover. Saw a documentary on releasing Samson Fish in WA recently with droppers but couldn't picture how to construct one. Simple really [smiley=hammer.gif]. Will be using Tony's idea with a dropper loop off the eye of the hook so I can vary the lead weight to the size of the fish.Should work a treat.
Thanks fellas... [smiley=thumbup.gif]
Scoota....

[thesimmos]

I just wanna know how they know it definately works....

Just because the fish isnt there doesnt mean it is still alive a few days later.. *shrug*

Anyone able to answer?

[Wally]

They work alright #;), #The Tagging programe is proving this. You can make your own just by using a snapper lead with a 10/O barbless hook screwed too the side, and then crimp a sleeve on the barbless hook, too stop your clip/swivel from sliding off ;)

Hope this helps

Wally

Edit trying too upload a pic for ya's but its saying something is exceeded and the file is only 50kb :-/

[Sillaginid]

The Queensland Department of Primary Industries and Fisheries and FRDC are currently involved in testing the efficiency of both release weights and puncturing the swimbladder on reef fish survival. The early results suggest that the survival rates vary greatly between species, but no so much between release types. Unfortunately, sometimes fish that are raised to the surface suffer internal injuries due to the expanding air cavities (i.e. swimbladder) pushing against their internal organs. There is no external sign of this damage and although the fish may swim away, they may subsequently die later due to these injuries. Try contacting the guys at the Southern Fisheries Center if you want more information.

[choppa]

sillaginid,,, nearly hgas it rightbut the case studies are over,,, i'll post the following and try and upload the pics

Case Studies

Al Bevan Release Weight

SECOND STORY to run alongside the first, with pics received of weight and fish descending, from your pamphlet….

GARRY LILLEY’S release weight is a teardrop of heavy metal, cast around the shank of a barbless hook to take reef fish with pressure-related injuries back to a survival depth.

These injuries, grouped as barotrauma, result from gas expansion in the swim bladder and other organs when fish hooked at depths of 20m or more do not have time to adjust to changes in water pressure as they are pulled to the surface.

Without help they are unlikely to be able to return to a depth where the pressure would allow swim bladders to revert to normal size.

Simply returned to the water, they drift away on the surface and die.

A recreational fisher using the release weight attaches it with a clip to the fishing rig, or to a second rod and reel or handline set aside for the purpose.

Then the barbless hook is put through the lip of the fish, fish and weight are lowered into the water and the weight is detached by a single tug on the line – and retrieved – after the fish has reached the bottom.

Alternatively, a fish often recovers and frees itself on the way down.

“It’s like recompression for divers who have surfaced too fast,” said Garry Lilley.

“And it puts territorial reef fish back in their own territory.”

The trio said evidence of success came from recaptures. Already about 10 per cent of 400 dhufish tagged and liberated with release weights during the past three years have been caught again.

“This is double the rate of the next best survival technique,” Allan Bevan said.

They said it took 10 years to convince fisheries scientists that the weight worked, but liaison between Recfishwest and the Department of Fisheries WA 18 months ago had sparked a welcome change of attitude.

With the backing of the FRDC-funded national strategy for the survival of released line-caught fish, the release weight is also being used by Queensland reef fishers.

“At the most basic level, it helps sustain our sport,” said Allan Bevan.

“Above and beyond that is a duty to the fish. Every angler’s responsibility is to maximise the chance of survival of the fish they release.”

MORE: Allan Bevan, Garry Lilley, email shikari@optusnet.com.au.

Release weights are distributed in WA by Mako Tackle, phone 08 9274 5255.

[choppa]

try and post pics again,,,,,,,,,,,,,but wont work,,, try a google on FRDC,,, look up research on the top tool bar,,, and the editorial and pics are there


choppa

[choppa]

try again now that i'm home,,,,,,

[choppa]

and again

[Wally]

Good stuff choppa, glad someone could post them up. I'll try with a home made jobby, took less then 5 mins too make this up.Just remember that you may need twice this weight too get a big cod etc down

Wally

[Wally]

The early results suggest that the survival rates vary greatly between species, but no so much between release types.

You will find Sillaginid when the study/research ends the release weight will be far greater the better option, see below and this is old data from 2001


DHU Since Jan 2001
Method Total fish Recaptured Percent
Simple 300 16 5.33
Vented 135 3 2.22
Shotline 239 21 8.79
Simp & Vent 48 1 2.08
Vent & Shot 22 0 0.00
No Info 15 0 0.00
TOTAL 759 41 5.40

A pic so you can see how it is done, and its best too have a old set up ready too go and a over head is better too, too stop the line from jerking, the quicker it gets back down too its captured depth the better chance of survival

[Richard]

Here's some good info on release techniques and survival rates.


http://www.info-fish.net/releasefish/




Richard

[Az]

interesting read guys, good topic
i'll have to set one of these up myself

[mickey7]

found this on a yanky site to add to the discussion.

http://www.loveofsea.com/images/gsbdev.jpg

[choppa]

mickey,,,,, i have seen this,, and i think the ""complexity"" of the device is its main down fall,,, it relies upon your release line to be tethered to one swivel,,and weight to another,,, and ""hopefully"" no sudden movement to slide the locking bar back to disengage the clamp,, also you need to attach heavier weights for larger fish etc etc,,, all up,,, some good thinking and intuition,,,

but the aussie bomb,, as i call it can be more versatile

how,,,,its shown above,, by the ease of making it yourself,,, and it works,,,

cost,,,,,,,1 hook,,,,,,,,1 weight,,,,,,,,1 swivel,,, and if you loose it,,, make another

choppa

[mickey7]

Choppa,i'll be makin your version to carry on my boat,thanks for sharing.

cheers mickey.

[scoota]

Thanks to all who replied and I have now constructed my own version of release dropper and look forward to testing this weekend.
Cheers... ;)
Scoota....

[Tony_N]

Yeh - me too - I made mine this morning - Dont have a crimping tool so used a bit of fluoro tubing to stop the swivel from slipping off. This beats needling the fish, thanks for the info fellas.

Tony

[ian.young]

Hi all....a major US study suggests that venting doesn't work, and should probably be banned rather than encouraged. It also suggests release weights don't work (though they may not do any harm). I've no opinion on the matter but thought this made interesting reading as its the most comprehensive research on the matter that I've seen.

http://library.ttu.edu/about/facility/face/entries/sciences/PDF/Wilde.pdf

Ian

[Scott nthQld]

gotta be honest, that is the biggest bunch of crap I've read and i am now wondering exactly who's payroll this bloke is on.

He just craps on about "confidence levels", in other words, "this is my guesstimation", not scientific at all, no matter how many friggin equations he wants to include. Catching 3 fish and not re capturing them the following day proves nothing other than this 'research' was done to be detrimental to all forms of fishing.

Point is research done here by both Govt, Recfishers and independant groups ALL say and have proven through tagging, that venting and release weights are all beneficial practices when a fish is suffering from barotrauma, using a release weight being the most successful method.

[FNQCairns]

If it's a fish you don't want or a fish caught just for the fun of it (same thing)....take 3-4 times longer to bring it to the surface.

i understand we humans are conditioned to want it ALL right now then attempt to fix the expected result to help amend conscience...not possible IMO.

Better to not do it at all if the issue does actually matter to an individual....... or use slow wind ups then if it all goes pear shaped much more rarely.... well a persons character is clean not just white washed through wanting it all right now.

cheers fnq

[ian.young]

gotta be honest, that is the biggest bunch of crap I've read and i am now wondering exactly who's payroll this bloke is on.

He just craps on about "confidence levels", in other words, "this is my guesstimation", not scientific at all, no matter how many friggin equations he wants to include. Catching 3 fish and not re capturing them the following day proves nothing other than this 'research' was done to be detrimental to all forms of fishing.

Point is research done here by both Govt, Recfishers and independant groups ALL say and have proven through tagging, that venting and release weights are all beneficial practices when a fish is suffering from barotrauma, using a release weight being the most successful method.


Hi again: I don't think that all local research suggests venting is successful. The figures cited by Wally indicate pretty clearly that venting is a bad idea in plenty of cases...his numbers suggest that a vented fish has less than half the chance of survival, compared to a bloated fish simply thrown back in. DPI study on Qld fish showed virtually no difference in (long-term) survival rates

http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/28_5828.htm

As I say, I've got no firm opinion on the matter, but it's worth looking at these studies before you go sticking fish.


Ian

[ozbee]

pull them up slower hmmmmmm


http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk123/ozbee_photos/th_SANY0397.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk123/ozbee_photos/?action=view&current=SANY0397.flv)

[Pazz01]

Ozbee, my thoughts exactly.

Them grey suits smash you when you do that.

Pazz

[FNQCairns]

pull them up slower hmmmmmm


http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk123/ozbee_photos/th_SANY0397.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk123/ozbee_photos/?action=view&current=SANY0397.flv)

Ha yeah! that's a problem!:) One of those potentially endangered black tips must have got it::) still slow will work just not all the time at every spot.

cheers fnq

[treno82]

Good read fella's very informative;D

[Si]

i think the only way to reduce post caught motality resulting from barotrauma is the lead weight method and even this would still have a low survival rate. puncturing the swim bladder might seem to work at the surface but the fish has no way to regulate its buoyancy anymore and either succumbs to predators or dies from internal injuries from the spike or from the expanding pressure suffered previoulsy. you would have to have a pretty good argument to convince me otherwise.

i think its a great question/thread and promotes discussion and thought as its an area that needs improvement. im surprised fisheries have taken so long to actually do any research into this as i think its one area that recreational fishers need to improve. post caught mortality happens more often than we think it does. do we reduce size limits to limit the wasted fish coupled with a bag limit. i know trag are prone to barotrauma and most undersize throwbacks never survive either getting eaten on the surface by sharks or dolphins.

[Adam Profish]

How deep is your esky.

[oscarbyron]

My cousin just went on a charter off the Gold Coast and said they caught an absolute crap load of trag and the charter mob were squeezing the bladder and trowing them back in. My cousin said most were just floating away dead...

[MudRiverDan]

My cousin just went on a charter off the Gold Coast and said they caught an absolute crap load of trag and the charter mob were squeezing the bladder and trowing them back in. My cousin said most were just floating away dead...

If Trag are anything like jew simply throwing them overboard would not suffice, they would need to be swim to let the gills fill with oxygen again.
No idea on swim bladder, I know you can puncture it, don't know it it is effective.

[Si]

My cousin just went on a charter off the Gold Coast and said they caught an absolute crap load of trag and the charter mob were squeezing the bladder and trowing them back in. My cousin said most were just floating away dead...

yep, thats when the dolphins and noahs turn up. croakers (jews, trag etc) suffer more from barotrauma then most fish. dont know why but always good to treat them well when out of the water and if you plan to release do it as quickly as possible.

[onerabbit]

Better to not do it at all if the issue does actually matter to an individual

YEP, best way to be conservative is stop fishing when you have caught enough,
or more than you want to take home.

Not sure on the issue of releasing,

but I am sure that if I was caught & dragged into the depths,
then released
then I think my chances of survival would be slim.

Muzz