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Nugget
04-07-2006, 07:52 PM
In years gone by I have been a founding member of sports fishing clubs.
I am still listed on the Internet somewhere… as the contact.
Today I received a phone call ( I assume because I am listed as the contact for fishing clubs I have started) from the “Wilderness Society” looking for up to date contact details – they said they were updating their record for fishing clubs.
I asked why the Wilderness Society would need to know contact details of fishing clubs. – I was told “I’m only a volunteer and this is only my second day on the job”

It doesn’t take much intelligence to ascertain they are updating their records in preparation for a campaign against angling.
I have seen how this organisation works in other countries.
It starts with getting all the names and addresses of all the board and the executives of fishing related organisations – then they post these on their website asking their supporters to write and ring them complaining.
It gets worse – they then get contact details of shareholders of fishing related businesses and harass them, scaring them to the point of driving share prices down.

If you get a similar phone call – my advice is to give them no details.

Dave ><>

robersl
04-07-2006, 08:12 PM
ok dave thanks for the info

shane

Great_White
04-07-2006, 08:17 PM
If I get a call from one of them I will politely ask them to chain themselves to a tree about to be cut down. Or lie in front of a dozer about to clear a forest. #:(

But leave us poor fisho's alone, as most of us do and care more about the sea than these so called #“Wilderness Society” groups do. #>:(

Dave , you should have asked the person who called when was the last time they ate fish.

Let them target the people who net millions of kg's of fish and throw the by catch away.

WHAT A WASTE!!!!!!!

Don't start me :-X

Peter.

jim_farrell
04-07-2006, 08:23 PM
I don't envy you dave, then again, fish during the week. Mmmmmmmmmm.
Hope the calls don't come.
Jim

David_P
04-07-2006, 09:16 PM
Tell 'em to FOM.

Feral
05-07-2006, 05:00 AM
No No No.
Politely ask for their orgainisations details, office bearers etc etc. Then put their details on here so we can all "wish them well" ;D

gif
05-07-2006, 06:32 AM
Feral Has it

We need their details # # faxes # phone numbers and emails

What they do is get thosands around theworld to fill your in box #

Its called cybetprotesting # and it has brought companies to their knees #- legally

And the WWF has taxe deduction status #- my church doesnt! # #Go figure.

So if they call

1 #ask for their details
2 #Politely make a mistake and give them incorrect details

fish2eat
05-07-2006, 10:51 AM
Sadly, I can forsee that in a few generations, eveyone will be a vegetarian as it will be illegal to eat the animals that God put here for that purpose.

How are they goingto stop fish killing and eating other fish, should we ask them that ????

gif
05-07-2006, 11:36 AM
fishh2eat if you had caught my other posts you would know how they will stop fishing (That’s my way apologising for the repeat below)

- first they make it hard by lots of Green Zones ( planned for Moreton Bay after the next election
- They also make it hard like closing down boat ramps - but they are sneaky – they don’t close down ramps thy just close down parking or lock it up over night until 8am. That’s the sneaky tactics used by the females against fishing I met at Redland Shire Council.
- They get an “Animal Welfare Bill “ in to parliament as they have right now today in the Senate.. Then when that is passed they get a lot for $ Barristers and run a test case that in catching a fish you were being cruel.
- This is how, in Germany they banned catch and release, banned fishing competitions, banned live baiting,
- In Germany you have to do weeks of a course and pass and exam to get your fishing licence.


Mate do not sit there an think it wont happen, It is happening right now. We wre in the middle of a battle. The enemy know it are gaining ground and most of you guys don’t realize its started. That’s how we will lose.

Jitlands
05-07-2006, 12:04 PM
So given we will have a State election sometime this year and a Federal election soon after who does The Fishing Party recomend we vote for to protect our access to ocean resources?

Given the stand on power generation by the Federal ALP ( That is, sign the KOTO agreement to reduce green house gas by using less fossil fuels but rule ot Nuke power and additional dams for hydro )we need to be sure our votes will count and not be lured by bullshit statements.

I for one would be willing to vote as advised by the fishing party if they where sure they had committment from politicians they back!

kc
05-07-2006, 02:54 PM
TFPQ is still embreonic in terms of its political position. We are currently registering at a state level and hope to contest up to 7 state seats and will, all going well, run for the federal senate again next time around. It is important to understand that we are not about getting anyone to vote one way or the other for the major parties...they are both as bad as one another in most respects, caring far more about actually being in power than delivering.

What we are about is threatening the status quo. Learning the lesson so well demonstarted by the greens for so many years while we just sat on our hands.

The power of the preference deal is where it all happens.

If there is not a TFPQ representitive standing in your electorate, then just vote with your own consideration of the circumstances and candidates,including independants.

If there is a TFPQ candidate than be assured any deals we do in regards preference exchange will be 100% with the best interests of recreational fishing involved...just like at the last federal election.

Not everyone likes the final outcome of where our votes landed and (me included) don't like some of the ramifications BUT..from a rec fishing perspective we got a great result and our ability to negotiate at the next federal election will be even greater. We are still a long way behind the game in terms of political influence but we are finally in the main game and negotiating on the same terms as the greens with our preferences.

Fundamentally we are far closer to Labor than Liberal....we are, after all, very much a blue collar sport with strong family ties. The problem we have is that the left has so blindly tied itself to the green vote that it would require a major rethink for them to realign with "us" and a green vote is an antifishing vote. :( :(

KC

PinHead
05-07-2006, 03:08 PM
- They get an “Animal Welfare Bill “ in to parliament as they have right now today in the Senate.. # #Then when that is passed they get a lot for $ # Barristers and run #a test case that in catching a fish you were being cruel.



Gary..don't push too many panic buttons...there is not an animal welfare bill before parliament..that bill was looked at by a Senate committee and knocked back..it has never been tabled in the House of Reps..the starting place for all Fed. Legislation.

nigelr
05-07-2006, 03:26 PM
Used to be the Labor Party was the party that represented working class men and women and their families, amongst whom a spot of angling on the weekend was a popular pastime.
Nowadays unfortunately Labor is more concerned with bending over backwards to be sure of the Green preferences.
This particular subject makes me angry, seeing as I am a working class family man who loves to fish, and a Labor voter at heart, but I won't condone this cynicism if I can possibly avoid it.
What a pity Labor has lost its' way to such an extent that it lacks the courage and conviction to stand proud on its own hind legs for its' most fundamental principles, ie the rights of working men and women and their families.
As for the Greens, well they sure are smart operators you have to admit. They know how to spot an easy 'mark' when they see one.
Cheers and good luck to all who enjoy fishing, into the future!

gif
05-07-2006, 04:03 PM
Pinhead - agreed. But my point was this is the second such Bill in 3 years

The question I posed and answered was "how will they do this" and I was laying out a possible scenario. To illustrate how possible it is.

Yes - that Bill is probably now dead. But they will bring it up a 3rd time an a 4th.

Gary

gif
05-07-2006, 04:10 PM
The Federal Government passed legislation allowing you to be put on an official Do not call register. with fines if they do.


It will not be operating until 2007 - such is the velocity of the PS

in the interim you can try using the ADMA service

http://www.adma.com.au/asp/index.asp?pgid=1999


Gary

PinHead
05-07-2006, 04:55 PM
geeze nigel..you must be old to remember when the Labor Party was actually for the working class man.

nigelr
05-07-2006, 05:21 PM
Pinhead.
50 actually!
Yeh, says it all, eh!
Cheers.

PinHead
05-07-2006, 07:09 PM
LOL nigel...well I doubt you could remember a Labor Party like that( Whitlam???..nah...Hawke???..nope...Keating??? definitely not.)...all pollies are the same and have been for many many years.

mickey7
05-07-2006, 09:05 PM
below is a link to a fishing site but on the opening page there are google adds,one add is for a link to FISHINGHURTS .COM which is an animal rights group-they are infiltrating even sacred ground,my worry is they are advising the kids how to demonstrate against fishing re- KIDS CORNER as we all know sow the seed in a young mind and watch the consequences in years to come.http://www.squidfish.net/

cheers.

Jackinthebox
06-07-2006, 12:36 AM
If anyone sees covert ads like this on a fishing site,
let the fishing site know about it as they can then lock these websites out of the google ad rotation on their site.

Burley_Boy
06-07-2006, 09:34 AM
The surprising thing I find about the National Animal Welfare Bill is the lack of response from people. The 2005 bill committee advertised in August 2005 for submissions from interested individuals and organisations, they got 204 submissions and 25% were emails.
The previous inquiry in 2004 had 2 responses. The new bill had been redrafted to take into account animal liberationists concerns.
A large amount of the 204 submissions this time were standard letters from animal liberationists against live exports and treatment of chickens and pigs.

204 submissions and one of them from me prompted by the fishing party!! If we feel these things concern us then maybe next time lets ensure that once info is available we place adds in our local fishing rags and get a substantial response. 240 submissions was considered a large response ffrom the community.

The bill has been reccomended not to proceed but suggests animal libs to work within the current legislation to prevent cruelty.

The aim of the bill was said not to have the aim to restrict or ban fishing and that if this was a concern then the bill should be redrafted to ensure this was not to be the result of the bill.

If these are the numbers that are required to make changes to legislation then lets get the magazines to allocate some space for information on what is happening and who we should be approaching to minimise the effect of green zones etc.

Fishing_Widow
06-07-2006, 03:20 PM
It sounds like another case of the minority trying to push their views onto the majority. The majority need to stand up and be counted instead of sitting on their hands like they always seem to. It seems to be already starting in some other areas. Who can we find more information out from because as usual there doesn't seem to be much advertised about the situation.

Nomes

cuzzamundi
06-07-2006, 05:28 PM
thanks dave. i cant believe this! just unbelieveable. my old boy always told me to vote labor, and i have since i was an adult. but now, as said, things have changed, and not for the better of the working class. mine are now going to the fishing party. i hope it grows and continues over the years, cos buggered if i'll let any ?ric@ tell me i cant fish! never!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! makes me fume. i reckon a great many people would be truly shattered as humans if we went down the path that germans have had to! shattered. not to mention assie culture, which is already being diluted, but thats another rant. unreal!

cuzza

Jim_Tait
07-07-2006, 10:54 AM
I think paranoia rules supreme :o- there are heaps of fishers who are members of the Wilderness Society - they work towards keeping wild places on the map not animal libberation etc - although some members may be supportive of such - if it wasn't for the wilderness society and other organisations like them - Shelburne Bay on Cape york would now be a sand mine instead of a National Park and thats just one example. When are fishers going to realise that their interests lie in working with conservation organiosations instead of against them - unityed the extrremist on all sides could be exposed and left out of the equation ;) ;)

tshort
07-07-2006, 11:24 AM
The Only Wilderness is Between a Greenies Ears.

thesimmos
07-07-2006, 06:09 PM
Someone calls and asks you for your details but doesnt know why their organisation wants your details?

This is disturbing...

I feel sorry for the person having to do that job.. This shows how immoral and deceitful these organisations are..

Kinda reminds me of other organisations that promote messages like
"love one another as I have loved you" just dont be gay or of another religion slash cult or your not a part of this statement!

Simmo

mickey7
07-07-2006, 06:36 PM
jim-tait, naive at best,utter BS to suggest that aligning rec fishers with some self righteous animal lib/greenie group is ultimately going to protect/benifit the rights of the average family of being able to go fishing.It is a well known fact that these groups will try everything to stop fishing,they believe it is there moral obligation,personaly i think there morons.

cheers.

Bowser
07-07-2006, 07:11 PM
Jim, I would hope that your suggestion that we join with the greens is based on naive enthusiasm and not on real belief. The track record of the green groups and National Parks, GBRMPA and their ilk is not good. Look at the response GBRMPA gave to the public consultation process in the north. They received a huge number of suggestions from locals rejecting their proposed green zones and took no notice. They went with the greens all the way. Locally, ask yourself what was the consultation process with the introduction of exclusion zones for the protection of the grey nurse shark or the introduction of green zones in the Northern Rivers? None that was made public or was done with the intent of being fair and equitable. The process used by the statutory authorities and the greens is far from transparent. National Parks is even starting to become an arm of Treasury in Moreton Bay, patrolling the dugong go slow zones with no education intended, just issuing on the spot $300 fines. You get less then that for serious crimes on land.

No I am afraid the only reason fishermen and women should be cuddling up to the greens is to infiltrate their organisation and overpower the membership. Unfortunately this will not happen as they have been playing their grubby political games for to long to be outsmarted by us. You need only look at the Australian political landscape over the past 30 years since old Don Chipp started the Democrats. They and the greens have wrested control of the parliament from mainstream Australia by obtaining a handful of votes in the less populus states, SA, WA & Tasmania, From there they have gained control of the upper house and forced the Government of the day to enact legislation that furthers their insidious invasion of our rights and pleasures. This has happened no matter which party has held the control of the Reps. Until recently I strongly supported the intentions of the Founding Fathers in their establishment of the Senate as a house of state representation, but am rapidly losing this faith through the continual bastardisation of majority rule by rabid politicians who represent few and attract fewer votes.

Louis
08-07-2006, 05:07 AM
One thing is for certain, we live in bizarre times.

What was right is now wrong.

What was wrong is now seen to be right.

We live in very bizarre times indeed.



Louis

BillR
08-07-2006, 07:02 PM
One thing is for certain, we live in bizarre times. #

What was right is now wrong. #

What was wrong is now seen to be right. #

We live in very bizarre times indeed.



Louis #



I agree Louis, not only bizarre but rapidly changing as well. I bought my first boat about 10 years ago. Remember that was when everyone waved to each other when boating - that is rare now. Just too many boats and too much competition for space, both on the ramps and on the water.

Essential for effectively combatting the excessive elements of the Greens will be a committed, organised and caring fishing fraternity.

But have a look at what we have in reality. Commercial and recreational fishers at each others throats, morons who throw rubbish into the water, morons who fight on the ramps, morons who steal crab pots and anything else that is left unattended, morons who take undersize fish and ignore bag limits, morons who don't know the waterway rules, increasing numbers of marine incidents (marine accidents) - I won't go on I am sure everyone can add a category or two.

How the hell is anyone going to organise this bunch? I have the greatest of admiration for anyone that is trying such as Sunfish - but do I think they are going to influence the pollies to a greater extent than the Greens. About as much chance as me winning Mr Universe. Most pollies have ego's a pole vaulter couldn't clear and they love power, so all that really interests them at the close of day is votes. And the Greens command the moral high ground and can deliver votes.

I was talking to a woman the other day and my like of fishing came up. I was stunned by the response. She has no connection with fishing or boating but was happy to condem us by looking me up and down while stating in a morally superior tone "I think fishing is barbaric". Now I think hanging is barbaric but she was happy to use that sort of view about fishing, which I think is way over the top but that is what we are up against.

Now tell me how we are going to defend live baiting to these people. Don't laugh it won't be long before they are attacking the "barbaric" treatment of yabbies and live worms. I'm not kidding!

There are just too many people on the water and it is going to get a lot worse and as it does the legislation and regulations will increase to control the situation. If you don't believe me just have a look at the volumes of road traffic legislation.

With governments (including local councils) under tremendous pressure to fund infrastructure (ramps and channel dredging, markers, lights, onshore sewerage facilities etc are infrastructure) it is a damm site easier to restrict access to the waterways rather than do anything about it. Redland's attempts to restrict ramp access won't be the last.

I've had enough of writing this. All I am doing is depressing myself. I love my fishing and boating and hate to see the way things are going. If anyone can cheer me up please - before I sell my boat.

BillR

el_carpo
09-07-2006, 06:17 AM
Good posts folks. I hear ya BillR. I live in Chicago and fish right in the heart of left-wing loonie central. You should hear some of the stories my fellow Illinoisan fishermen and women could tell about their run-ins with these schmucks! I know guys who had these "peaceful" (yeah right! ::)) hippie-wannabes throw profane and disgusting insults at them and their wives and CHILDREN while fishing.

I was at a McDonalds once and was talking to a guy and it came out that he was a hunter. I've never been hunting myself but am interested in it and so we we're talking about what he hunted and where and so on and so forth......well, all of a sudden, this dingbat woman sitting near us yells, "You guys are sick! What kind of savage goes out and kills an animal?!...... Blah! Blah! Blah!"

.....here's the kicker--she's screaming at us and berating us all WHILE SCARFING DOWN A BIG-MAC!!!! :o

When she ran out of breath from her first assault and before she inhaled enough air for round two , I say, "So he's a monster for killing animals and eating them and I'm a monster for listening to him talk about it but you're NOT a monster for eating a dead cow? I guess you're alright with eating animals as long as they're served in paper boxes and come with french-fries?" ;D That shut her up but she did manage a single finger salute before she left. What a nice gal. ;D ;D ;D Everyone in the restaurant (if you can call McDonalds a restaurant :-?) who heard us agreed with me and the hunter stood up and clapped (while laughing his a$$ off). ;D

It's all so goofy. These knuckleheads never go into the woods or on the water, they're totally disconnected with nature, they think bread comes from the store, they eat meat and candy all day long, but they're going to tell us all about it. I don't think so!!! >:(

I strongly believe that it is the "true outdoorsman and woman" (not the slack-jawed numbskulls who go out to throw their trash all over and act like slobbasauruses) that most cares for the natural resources we have on this planet. We're just a different breed. Something set us apart from the rest of the crowd. When our parent/s or guardian took us out in the woods or on the water, something just clicked and we were set for life with a love and "real" RESPECT for our natural surroundings. Most important, is that we understand the "nature of nature." These hypocrites who sling hate at us are full of it. They've never mixed it up with mother nature mano-a-mano and don't understand where food comes from and how it is obtained. They take one nature walk on an asphalt-paved trail in some tiny, highly manicured nature preserve and they think they're experts in all thing natural and so are fully legitimized to label every one of us fishers and hunters as savages because we "get real" every now and then.

NO!!! NO WAY!!!

P.S.

JIM_TAIT, I am NOT including you with the people I was describing in my rambling, and long-winded post. I believe that you DO care for the woods and water. The fact that you fish and hunt (I think I read that you hunted) proves that you are not "one of them." I think that the emotional responses you got came from past personal experiences with these groups that the guys have probably had. When we have groups out there that print comic books telling kids that their parents are cold blooded killers and such......well, you can see where people get angry.

Again, for the record, I don't count you as one of the dim-witted, hate-flinging, phony types so I hope you don't think I was.


Now, BillR wanted to be cheered up. I think Christmas is kind of cheery and cats are pretty cheery (when they're not clawing at your flesh anyway ::)) soooooooo........................

BillR
09-07-2006, 10:37 AM
El-Carpo,

Great post. It certainly lets us know what is coming here. Loved the pic :)

Good response to the woman at McDonalds ;D Though I will bet the woman I met was a vegan. I think most of the morally superior people are.

I don't disagree with conservation measures. There are just too many people competing for resources today not to have some controls (morons have to be controlled). But I disagree with a green movement that is hunting for issues to keep their organisation relevant and funded. (Bit like the old Tasmanian Hydro-Electric Authority that ran out of places to build dams. To keep their organisation alive they wanted to build dams everywhere.)

The good news is that we are still enjoying good fishing and waterway access. So far.

BillR
PS Nugget, I loved your post but how do you keep public information restricted. I am sure if I was a green I would do my research and monitor these sites, public records and magazines. Keep up the good work. ;)

shayned
10-07-2006, 01:49 PM
Now if you just could have worked a crab pot somewhere into the photo, El Carpo............................... ;)

Juzo
10-07-2006, 08:18 PM
it seems this issue is starting to generate a but of fire from all us fishos (and about time), so if your all serious about this, check out my post in the fishing news section (RecFish Australia MPA seminar), this whole seminar is about dealing with this issue, and any fisho who is serious about it should be going. I'll be there, have voluteered my services for the weekend to help out.

This may sound like a blatent plug, and it is!!!! ;D But I reckon thats what is needed to get the rec fisho's into action to protect what we all love to do.

John (RecFish CEO), has asked me to promote the event on the web forums, (being not too IT savy, and is flat out busy), so I am. I love fishing and would hate to see it taken away by those who would tell us what to do, I've put my hand up to get involved and this event is a first step for us to to do somthing about it.

It's all fine and well to "preach to the converted" on sites such as this, but the truth of the matter is TALK IS CHEAP...................

Hornblower
10-07-2006, 08:27 PM
All I can say is that there is to be a lot said for Conservation - In particular, saving the Canadian Grizzly Bear, because, nugget, they EAT Wilderness Society members!!!