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Seahorse
09-07-2006, 05:28 PM
i had a guy come around this arvo to buy my boat. we agreed on a price and this took 5mins. i thought great and he said ok lets transfer the money by internet. i said hang on, dont think so. he got shits a little prob at my ignorance of this type of payment. i said when my bank manager says the money is in my account he could take the boat. he didnt really want to take no, and insisted i ring the bank to check the transfer. he wanted to do this on my computer. maybe i did the wrong thing. maybe someone in the know could tell me. he said maybe he will be back tomorrowow if he still had the urge. i said well i still got the boat and when i had the money he could have the boat. he rang of my add on ausfish for sale sect. if i was buying a boat i think i would spend more than 5 mins looking at it.
hey iam from the old school. maybe i missed a sale but i sure feel better about it than maybe having no money and no boat. do i have to complete any transfers cause he never asked about them.

revs57
09-07-2006, 05:54 PM
sounds fishy to me too greg...reckon you did the safe thing.

if he really want to buy it he'll be back tomorrow...elsewise you've still got your boat to sell...better safe than sorry

Cheers

Rhys

grenadier
09-07-2006, 05:57 PM
i agree mate i would not sell my boat or anything like that cash or bank cheque only i money first boat second
show us your boat mate

Lucky_Phill
09-07-2006, 06:10 PM
Internet transfers are safe enough, but not from your computer.

I didn't like that idea. There is a multitude of internet cafe's etc around the traps, he could have gone down the road, transfered the $'s and by the time he returned to your place, the money would be in your bank and you would have been able to verify that.

Not knowing the amount of money in question, if I were buying a boat, I'd be doing a " revs" check first !

Although you may have missed a sale, you have peace of mind and that is what counts here.

Phill

wrip109
09-07-2006, 06:13 PM
I have been a computer professional since early 70's. I would not let anybody touch my computer, let alone give him my details so he could do the transfer on my computer.

I transfer money all the time both in and out of my account and there is never a problem. I keep a separate account for transactions like this which I always keep empty

However no transfer like this happens right away so there is no point in calling your bank. By all means give him your bank account number and the bank's number but he should then go away and transfer the money on his own computer.


I doubt that he was after your boat - just your bank details so you would have still had the boat but no money in the bank! (Like me)

You did the right thing - Well done!

Phil

Seahorse
09-07-2006, 06:20 PM
thanks heaps fellas. i feel a lot better now. its this type of support that makes this place what it is. the only thing that does concern me is that this guy has read my add on here.
At least i can still go fishing

cheers
greg

Dory4.1
09-07-2006, 06:47 PM
Seahorse,

Yes there are transfer forms that have to be completed to allow the transfer of registration on boat and trailer from you to the new owner. These can be picked up from Queensland Transport. From Memory, both parties sign the forms, but the onus is on the purchaser to present them. Its a good idea to keep your copy of the transfer form in case the new owner kills someone in a boat registered in your name, and the authorities come looking to you, if the new owner failed to have the ownership transfered.

As for the electronic transfer, I think this is a safe way to transfer funds, but like you, I wouldn't let someone else use my computer, and would be be looking to see the funds had arrived before the boat departed.

Hope all works out for you :)

Rgs
Michael

Seahorse
09-07-2006, 07:28 PM
thanks michael. this just might be good info for other people who havnt sold a boat before. this bloke wanted to tow the boat away there and then.

cheers
greg

TheSaint
09-07-2006, 07:34 PM
I did internet transfer from the girl's computer who i brought my car off last year so i don't really see a problem with it? But in saying that i had paid her bank loan out 2 days before hand & had a REVS & Racv check done..

Seahorse
09-07-2006, 07:44 PM
thats little different. this bloke turned up at 2.30, said yes at 2.35 and wanted to drive away at 2.40.

Dory4.1
09-07-2006, 07:53 PM
One other point with the transfer forms, the seller needs to sight, and record some ID from the buyer, I think a drivers licence is typically whats required. The transfer form spells this out

NeilD
09-07-2006, 08:06 PM
Sounds pretty dodgy to me. There are a heap of internet banking scams around. With all of my transfers it takes overnight to show any transfer of funds into a new account so you would have been without a boat and perhaps a compromised computer security situation.

Neil

Seahorse
09-07-2006, 08:12 PM
well i always thought it took overnight but this guy just kept saying ring the bank and i will show u my account where it come out of and ur account where it going into. he said there was a central bank system. he had a mate with him. i held my cool and was on tip of my tongue, f... off. For me to keep my cool is really good.
hey maybe he will come back tomorrow, but rules wont change.

greg

rando
09-07-2006, 08:38 PM
On trading days( Mon _ Friday) & before 3pm it usually takes twentyfour hours for an electronic transfer to CLEAR. The exception is if you both use the same bank, CBA,NAB or whoever... etc.
A transfer between dissimiliar banks on a non trading day or processed after 3 pm on any other day will not be processed till the NEXT trading day.
Someone making an electronic transfer on a Saturday will not have that transfer processed till monday and typically CLEARED funds would be in your account late on monday at the earliest.

Yes he would have been able to show a reciept showing a transfer of funds from one account to another but that does not necessarily mean clear funds are in your account.

I #think there was something wrong with the proposed transaction and I #suspect that had you accepted the proposal,Then, #on Monday afternoon, you would have been trying to find out where those funds were

Seahorse
09-07-2006, 08:44 PM
i must be fair and say he did ask what bank i was with. he said the bank and it was the same one.

Seahorse
09-07-2006, 08:46 PM
yes rando i really think u r right. i know this might look like its going on a bit but i think its good showin all the positive remarks. hopefully it might help others

cheers
greg

DaveSue_Fishos_Two
09-07-2006, 08:54 PM
It's your boat Seahorse, you're still the owner and so you can sell it as you see fit. If a purchaser won't comply with your requests than they are not fair dinkum. I wouldn't be doing the internet thing either. A bank cheque for me and nothing less. If the buyer is serious they will be happy to accomodate you.
If that bloke comes back and wants you to do things that you are not happy with, tell him to bugger off.

Cheers
Dave

rando
09-07-2006, 08:58 PM
Dont be fooled by a bank cheque either, although somewhat safer, they can be cancelled just as easily as a personal cheque.
Unless you are dealing in cash ALWAYS wait till YOUR bank says they have CLEARED funds in your account
There is one rule to remember...... ASSUMPTION IS THE MOTHER OF ALL %$&*UPS!!!!

Gbanger
09-07-2006, 09:02 PM
if a bank cheque is handed over in good faith and payment is stopped on it the bank is liable for the funds...

Seahorse
09-07-2006, 09:09 PM
hey gbanger, thats interesting. is that a fact. what happens if he puts a stop on it before it clears. this is a very grey area.

cheers
greg

tinnieman
09-07-2006, 09:18 PM
Take it from somone in the know, the onus is on both the seller and buyer to lodge the transfer of rego/ownership. Both parties can be prosecuted for failure to do so. In relation to internet transfer, I am with an earlier post, never let anyone touch your computer. If it was me and I was fair dinkum I would bring my laptop and go to the nearest i-cafe to transfer. For anyone else I suggest good old cash or bank cheque, nothing less..just my humble opinion....tight lines. :D

Gbanger
09-07-2006, 09:21 PM
Its grey, but there are far more assurances, putting a stop on a bank cheque isnt just a matter of ringing up and cancelling it, you sign declarations etc.. im pretty sure the payee of the bankcheque can sue the bank, then the bank would normally sue the customer or debit their account

dop
09-07-2006, 09:41 PM
You did the right thing.
If money is sent by Electronic funds transfer from one bank to a second bank, the funds can take a few days to hit your account. The transaction is not immediate. The sender should add a reference number / name to the transaction, which will display in your account once you receive the money. The sender will also receive a transaction number. Funds will only be sent by the bank if they are clear funds.

If sending money from one account to another account in the same bank, then the transaction will be immediate. You can go online ( ie go into internet banking) to see that the funds have been transferred.

The same applies, the sender should add a reference number / name to the transaction and funds will only be transferred if they are clear funds.

Also, beware that bank cheques can be stopped. If you take a bank cheque it takes three working days to clear unless you pay for a special answer.

Basically, never let your boat go untill you know those funds are in your account.

If you don't know too much about on line banking, stay clear of it. There is a lot of fraud especially credit card fraud.

Regards

Peter

Seahorse
09-07-2006, 09:54 PM
thanks peter. u r right in saying if not up on this lline banking stay away. if they r fair dinkum they will be back

cheers
greg

dop
09-07-2006, 10:25 PM
Another thing to be aware of when money is transferred electronically between two different banks is that the sender usually has to have a separate access within his online banking to transfer to a second bank. Then there are also daily limits on the amount being transferred. Some poeple only have a $500.00 limit, others may have thousands.

Also, it is very easy to key in the wrong account number. One slip and the money goes to some one elses account. The money can be retrieved but it all takes time.
I made the mistake once when paying a credit card payment by B Pay. I clicked a finance company biller that we have, rather than the credit card account. The finance ocmpany was an old paid out loan but by clicking it I put the account into credit by $2000.00. It was regarded as money laundering. Fortunataly my own bank was able to reverse tha transaction straight away, but it sure gave me a shock.

Recently we paid $2700 by credit card for a termite treatment. I went to buy petrol using the credit card and there were no funds available, The bank had processed the $2700.00 transaction twice. It took a couple of days to rectify.

Things can go wrong so easily, so you really must ewatch every electronic transaction

Sorry to bore every one, but I know what can go wrong from my own experiences. I still use EFT but I police everything

Regards again

Peter

flotsom
09-07-2006, 10:41 PM
Greg

this is bizzare, same thing happened to me 2 weeks ago, i phoned the bank as i was not sure, they said it was fool proof but also said nothing is 100% until money has cleared in my account, i said no to the buyer, he got the shits and never saw him again....... i would suggest it is the same guy??? i can't remeber his name to match up.

Floto

Seahorse
09-07-2006, 10:41 PM
hey peter, its all good advice if it saves someone from losing money

cheers
greg

MyEscape
10-07-2006, 05:37 AM
Seahorse,

I'd also agree that you did the right thing by not allowing access to you PC. Caution is always best.

You still have the boat, so you haven't lost anything really. Is doesn't sound like he was a potential purchaser of your boat. Much more likely to wishing to access your account details.

It would be interesting to see if this type of potential scam is used with other private "sales" as well, like in used cars etc. Actually I don't think a phone to the Police, or the Office of Fair Trading to alert them would be in-appropriate.

You didn't mention running the motor etc for him. Surely nobody buys a boat without at least starting the motor. That has to be the very minimumin buying a boat privately.

Steve

Seahorse
10-07-2006, 06:58 AM
floto, this blokes name was scott, and he turned up in a select hire van

Argle
10-07-2006, 08:08 AM
Pretty easy really, old mate wants to e-transfer money into your account, no probs, tell him you'll e-transfer him the boat ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
But all jokes aside, Id be looking for Johnny Cash or Bank cheque and if thats no good for him then tough.

Cheers and beers
Scott

frankj
10-07-2006, 08:53 AM
Seahorse,

You did the right thing. Maybe he was genuine, but caution is the best policy.

One other point, you need to get a safety inspection on the trailer before you sell. If you don't get one the buyer can't change the registration. It is your responsibility to get it done, not the new owner.

Make sure he gets the correct copy of the safety inspection form.

Talking from experience.

Cheers
Frank

fish2eat
10-07-2006, 09:56 AM
This is a very interesting thread in a study of human behaviour.

I actually know a fair bit about the story because the buyer is known to me and I was hearing the "other side" of the story. It WAS a genuine deal.

I can assure everyone that the whole deal was above board and the propsed buyer is a very reputable and well known member here. However, it is a case of simple mis-communication and incompatibility of the level of comfort zones.

1. Everything in life has a "natural" pace and rythym for a given individual. Like dating, some girls will go to bed with you on the first date, others want to, but their internal programming won't let them.....they have to play out the ritual game. So it is with Greg, he wouldn't buy a boat in 5 minutes (this is normal), therefore he is uncomfortable with someone who would.

2. Second, after having taken Greg out of the comfort zone as above, the buyer challenged his understanding and confidence in the financial payment system using the net on greg's computer. For someone with minimal experience in internet banking, especially as a payee.....Greg was trying to get his head around this concept, in the context of already being uncomfortable. as above

People can usually adapt to a one new concept at a time.....ie, if the buyer had been dealing with him for a week over the boat, had seen it, asked more questions, second look, maybe a sea trial....Greg would have more easily accepted the unconventional (to him) payment method. or, alternately if Greg was a tech savvy guy in his 20's or 30's and comfortable with net transfers and transactions, might have more easily got his head around someone who urgently wanted a boat on sunday afternoon.....unlikely someone will be comfortable grasping 2 new concepts at the same time.

Moral of the story......we are all men and foreplay can even be important to us at times. #;D

gogecko
10-07-2006, 10:27 AM
Great thread guys.

I WOULD let a guy access my computer and transfer funds becasue I am comfortable with it. If my bank shows the funds are in, then thats a done deal. The only proviso is that he deals with the same bank for instant transfer, and that I dont let him see my log in to check my funds. I could ask him to leave the room while I log in easily enough. I would also get a drivers licence for ID.

I deal with big transfers every week, so I am cool about it. I am very aware of the phishing scams, the ebay scams and all the others like russian money laundering. However nobody can get your login and password unless they upload a virus/worm.

Im really glad fish2eat posted something good about the buyer, so now we all know. However, no criticism to the seller. The golden rule is if your not comfortable with a transaction, dont do it.

cheers
Andrew

Poseidon
10-07-2006, 10:40 AM
You did the right thing, as has been mentioned you need to feel comfortable with the deal.

I would have done the exact same thing, call me old fashioned or whatever but until I have the cash or bank cheque in my hands then its no deal.

If the sale falls through as a result then so be it.

Regards Cameron.

gogecko
10-07-2006, 04:38 PM
I should add that a well prepared buyer should have foreseen that many are uncomfortable with internet transfers, and if I was a buyer, I would have had cash in my pocket.

Seahorse
10-07-2006, 06:21 PM
i would just like to thank everyone for their comments. The buyer in question , scott who was driving a select van, phoned me today and still wanted to buy the boat. I said no worries but wanted cash. He said that he still would like to do the deal by internet transfer, and that he would transfer money today and when i was happy that it was in my account, he would then pick up the boat, prob tomorrow. I said that i didnt have a problem with that, and when my bank rings me and says that funds have been cleared he could pick up boat. This is all i wanted yesterday. In the end the buyer, scott was on the up and up, but from all the responses that i have had on here i would not have done the deal any different,now or in the future. I think this has been an interesting experience and maybe helps other people who are not confident with the process of internet banking. One has to be confortable. hey there fish to eat, after reading ur message i was just wondering if i was having sex or selling a boat. ;)
The end result BOAT SOLD. thanks again to all above and wish Scott happy boating.

cheers

greg

choppa
10-07-2006, 07:11 PM
heaps of good advice,,, but to clear a few misconceptions,,,

allowing access to someone on your computor is a personal issue,,, the user has to log onto their internet banker and request funds to be transferred to your bsb & account no,,,this happens daily on an absolute huge basis,,,,whether they use your computor or another,, the only info you give is your bsb/account no,,, they cannot withdraw funds on these 2 identifiers alone

internet transfers of any amount CAN be direct access,,,, as long as the party has cleared this with his bank,,, and CAN happen 7 days a week

to have anyone approach you and say its cleared funds immediatley is incorrect if they have not notified their bank first,,,,this is where the 12-48 hrs comes into play,,,as banks play with these funds FIRST prior to allowing the transfer to clear

bank cheques can and have been cancelled prior and after the fact,,, and all it takes is a call to the bank to do so within 12 hrs of handing the chq over

to sue someone over non payment is very common,,,especially in chqs bouncing,,,transfers not being honored

it all comes down to what YOU are comfortable with,,,and dont forget,, if dealing in cash,,, the cash transaction act places you in the hotseat for paperwork to be completed on amounts over 10k

its similar to my work,,,, once i have clarifacation of funds,,, trust is the placed on the buyer to fulfill their obligation,,, if i responded to a item for sale,,, and had available $ to purchase,,, i too would endeavour to take it home then and there,,,, this off course is becoming more and more harder due to those who take advantage of the system,,,


the days of a couple of cows and me good dog are long gone

boatboy50
10-07-2006, 09:08 PM
Hey Guys,

Have watched this post evolve over the last couple of days.

I have been on both ends of this stick many times, and have never had or foreseen any problems, with decent sized transfers.

Can anyone tell me how letting even a complete stranger access their own internet banking account on my computer would risk my computers security? I would have thought the buyer using the unfamiliar computer is the one putting himself at risk ie if the seller had scanning software on their computer they could get the buyers internet banking details.

I don't understand the risk the seller has by using his computer for the process.

Depending on the seller, if he/she proves a transaction with my sight and receipt, I may let the goods go before funds clearance.

If the bank is the same as the sellers, the funds will appear instantly, if not usually the next business day.

I have done ebay transactions on a Saturday morning before with the goods paid for and posted by Saturday lunch! It makes life very easy if you understand it.

Regards

Darren

Az
10-07-2006, 09:59 PM
i've only seen internet transfer go in as clear funds when with the same bank, overnight with tha majority of the rest and then again some will have a limit on what can be transferred in a day, for a a telegraphic transfer should transfer clear funds the same day but can take a few hours at most, there is a fee for that and is arranged through their own bank

glad to hear it all turned out well mate! now is it time for an upgrade?

ShnogDog
10-07-2006, 11:45 PM
tell him once he tranfers the money to you ny internet, you will email the boat to him.... ::)

sounds pretty dodgy.. if he comes back get his rego and report him to the police.

Mark

choppa
11-07-2006, 12:58 AM
for a a telegraphic transfer should transfer clear funds the same day but can take a few hours at most, there is a fee for that and is arranged through their own bank

glad to hear it all turned out well mate! now is it time for an upgrade?

as posted in my reply above az,,, from memory its a max of $75 depending on transfer size,,, and disregarding whether its same bank or not,,,,,,OH one thing,,, CREDIT UNIONS differ,,,


and darrens spot on,,,, there is no risk with any one accessing their bank through your computor to transfer into your account,,,again as i posted above,,,but take heed,,, even though you sight the transfer and note the transaction reference number,, this is still ""grey"",, as the transfer can just as easily be reversed as it is sent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

shaman
11-07-2006, 12:58 PM
Hey Seahorse i'm glad Scott came good for you as after reading fish2eat's comment I was sure he would (obviously interested).

As for your decision I totally agree with what you did even if it did risk the sale. Never underestimate the general public my friends.

If in doubt always deal with my chinese mate Mr Fol Ding.

C A S H C A S H C A S H .......................................BILLY

fish2eat
11-07-2006, 03:28 PM
I can happily report that the deal was done, by internet transfer, and yes the money appeared the same day. Scott & Greg - Both parties happy.

For those of you who nominated you would be comfortable with a bank cheque, these are fool's gold. There have been thousands caught accepting bank cheques that have NOT been honoured. A few years ago there was a scam buying Harley Davidsons with fake bank cheques. The bank DOES NOT have to honour a bank cheque.

I would prefer cash if I were a seller, but unless you can get access to a large amout of cash on a weekend (just try it !!) then an internet transfer is the only way of getting access to funds.

However, I think this thread has proved my point that it is a matter of what you're comfortable with, and most of us who replied probably would have baulked.........even though the deal was legit, the timing wasn't.

Stu

gogecko
11-07-2006, 04:51 PM
Good advice and good comments all round guys. NIce to see a well conducted thread with nobody getting silly, apart from one comment.

For those unfamiliar with the banking system, there is one time when giving out your bsb and account number CAN backfire. That is when it is accessed by an overseas account. Remember the nigerian scam? Somebody wants access to your account to send some funds, and whamo, the withdraw funds by making a 'reverse debit'. We have an agreement with all australian banks that any bank can reverse a 'reverse debit/unauthorised withdrawl' when you complain, EXCEPT when the bank is in a foriegn country.

When I did my real estate training, we were warned about a case where a foriegner posed as a buyer of property over the phone, and requested the lawyers bank details to send a deposit. The con artist withdrew 6 million from the Victorian lawyers trust account! It was reimbursed by the aust govt fidelity fund because it was a trust account. It was also suppressed from the media.

Beware of overseas buyers offering you money. The russian ebay scam uses the same tactic - eg , please let us use you account to launder money and we will give you a 10% fee of a large sum, etc. Then whamo, more withdrawls.

I see we have a few members interested in the banking system and anti scamming. Good work guys. Glad to see the boat got sold, sorry if I sidetracked the thread , but this stuff is interesting.

Andrew

Seahorse
11-07-2006, 05:00 PM
yes andrew a great topic i thought, especially for mr. average, who i think makes up a lot of us on here.
As said earlier deal was legit but timing not. Thanks again and hopefully everyone is a little wiser.
Andrew, just curious what the 1 comment was.

cheers
greg

fish2eat
11-07-2006, 05:39 PM
This one is the turkey I think Andrew was talking about......


tell him once he tranfers the money to you ny internet, you will email the boat to him.... ::)

sounds pretty dodgy.. if he comes back get his rego and report him to the police.

Mark

stu68
11-07-2006, 08:30 PM
Seahorse,

You did the right thing. #Maybe he was genuine, but caution is the best policy.

One other point, you need to get a safety inspection on the trailer before you sell. #If you don't get one the buyer can't change the registration. #It is your responsibility to get it done, not the new owner. #

Make sure he gets the correct copy of the safety inspection form.

Talking from experience.

Cheers
Frank
Frank that very true but only if the total mass weight of the trailer is over 750KG. :-?
I had to go look after reading your post. ;)
Cheers