Water shortage.

[foggy]

I know this has been done to death but I saw something today that I am hopeing someone can explain to me.

I was out at Fernvale below Wivenhoe and there is water flowing downstream. Not a trickle but on crude calculations about 120000 litres per minute. ( based on the following the creek was about 10m wide and 200mm deep and it took about 10 seconds for the water to move 10m downstream-used a leaf to determine speed #I did say crude).
So thats 120000 litres per minute = 172 million litres per day :o. Why are they letting this much water out of our main water supply. I also saw a truckie washing his rig down with water pumped from the river with a fire fighting pump. Thats the same as me using a hose to wash the boat as the water comes from the same place. :-/

I know the farmers along the river need water and there should be some flow but 172 million litres a day. WTF

We are about to be hit with level 4 water restrictions and yet this much water is going down the river and into moreton bay.

Dumbfounded

Foggy >:(

[Poodroo]

Well you are about as dumbfounded as I am Foggy. Hey I realized that we were having a dry spell about 9-10 years ago and vowed not to water the grass back then because as I said to most people back then there is no point having green grass when we run out of water. The council and government seem to be doing a lot of nothing. If I realized we were in drought back then then why the hell didn't they and start doing something a lot earlier? We are still flushing our toilets with perfectly good drinking water. Aparently this wastes anywhere up to 19 litres per flush. Couldn't we have been doing this with recycled water? I have a lot of concerns about the common sense or lack thereof over the decissions the council are making. And as you say, there is water out there we could be tapping into which is just going out to sea. One has to wonder. :-/

Poodoo

[charleville]

See newspaper clip from today shown below.

In late 1973, this guy's dad, Lennox Walker appeared in some TV adverts saying that were going to have one of the driest summers on record and therefore we all ought to go out and buy brand X water sprinklers. #In fact, by January, we had had the biggest flood for 93 years. #;D ;D ;D

Perhaps, it is time to buy a big rainwater tank.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[bungie]

The water needs to run down stream, or the creek/river dies. No river = no fingerlings = no fishing. Stinking river bed full of diseased and rotten fish frames. Trees and mangroves using the river die, the farmers down stream who have licences to pump water from the river have nothing to draw from.

The difference between him using river water and you using tap water is the treatment process, and the fact that the river water is all ready gone past the dam wall?

The older style cisterns use 11litres of water per flush.

People think grey water will fix the worlds problems. It wont, grey water carries a vast amount of bacteria. When used to water the yard, by law, it only allowed to sit in the storage tank for less than 24 hrs because it goes septic. Then it is only allowed to be used for sub surface irrigation, not sprayed around the yard. As a plumber, the idea of grey water scares the hell out of me. The home handyman thinks a few fittings and a run of pipe will get him a sink in the garage. He taps into the grey water line and he poisons himself, or even worse stuffs up a good brew of beer #;) I have seen professional termite installations using a seepage system around the house, and the company just uses water supply poly pipe, again the home handyman taps into that line, realises after connecting that there is no water so he connects it to a second pipe he found. Pity the first pipe let termite poison into his pipe. In #the last 15 - 20 days, the reg's have been changed to allow the suburban rain water tank to no longer just feed the WC and cold washing machine tap, #but to feed the whole house, drinking water too. There is going to be some interesting court cases coming up soon from getting sick drinking that water.

People go on about water being wasted by this person and that person. How about people put there money were there mouth is. The old style 11 litre flush toilet, you replace it with a 6/3 flush unit you will save a minimum of five litres per flush, four people in the house twice a day, seven days a week, call it forty nine weeks a year for holidays. That's 13,720 litres a year, even more if you can train the kid's to use the half flush. Your shower rose, the usual old style rose can let out over 20 litres a minute, the AAA rated ones, 9 litres a minute. Again four people in the house 10 mins per shower even just once a day, seven days a week, forty nine weeks a year, 123,480 litres a year. How long do you leave the tap on while you are brushing your teeth? 3mins by 20 litres per minute .....,...,....,... Put a 500kpa pressure limiting valve on the whole house (its now law on new works) this reduces the volume of water out of the tap, with minimal noticeable flow drop. Washing the boat, still able to use a gurney for a few weeks #;) this uses less than a 5th of water using the garden hose does.

Gawd I'm going on, but this gets up my nose.

I humbly step down from my soap box.

[25_ponies]

Foggy, there is a good reason for this.

The water we get in Brisbane isn't processed and piped to us from Wivenhoe dam, it comes from the Mt Crosby treatment plant. There is no pipeline as such between the dam and Mt Crosby.

So how does the water get from the dam to the treatment plant ?

It goes via the natural pipline - the upper Brisbane river. What you are seeing is not water being released and wasted, it's the water on it's way to us. It is held back by the weir at the Mt Crosby plant, processed and then a smaller amount released into the mid Brisbane river.

If you look here -> http://www.seqwater.com.au/content/standard.asp?name=DamOperationsandMaintenance you can see just how much is released from the dam each month. With the restrictions in place you can see how it has declined. The June release was just over 10,000mL, so your estimate was pretty good for a leaf and the back of a ciggy packet calculation.

As for the truckie, I don't know, but because it's not treated water, may be legal to do that.

Cheers,

Alan.

[Jitlands]

What about the equality in the restrictions

vegi garden is screwed, can not wash $40K car, can not wash $20K boat
can not fill pool.

Golden Circle is the 4th biggest water user in Brisbane yet with a roof area of over 4 acres catches NO stormwater??????????????

Boral Plasterboard are building a new $400 million super palnt at Pinkenba and the DA has no plans for capturing stormwater yet the maunfacturing process is water relient?????????????

So long as its running out of the tap I'm using it!

[Jeremy]

vegi garden is screwed, can not wash $40K car, can not wash $20K boat
can not fill pool

What? you are wrong on all 4 counts ::) That is on level 3, don't know about boat and car, but you can still water the garden and fill the pool on level 4 too.

Jeremy

[davez104]

So long as its running out of the tap I'm using it!
Nice attitude, I'm sure that will help heaps when there is ZERO water left in the dams. Have you ever had to put 2 inches of water in your bath tub and had to bath half a dozen people in the same water? Then you'll now its bl@@dy dry. Yes, I'm from the country and have been through bad drought before, where water can be wasted in no way whatsoever, simply because there is none. In the southeast you are on the verge of this now and a lot of people are just worried about how they're gonna fill their swimming pools up :-/ First thing I would be doing is using that water to wash the boat, screw the lawn it will come back when the rains come, heaps of mulch on the vegie garden to try and save some water there. But, you're right about the big indudtries, it should be law that they catch and treat as much water for their own use as possible. Residential houses should have rainwater tanks, even if its only to flush the loo/water the yard etc etc. The situation is getting serious, but its not as bad as it could be. . . .YET

Dave.

[capt]

Yeah BUNGIES spot on with his facts and figures, and water saving plumbing fittings he mentioned are now mandatory in most shires. There's a solution to our proplems , no matter where you live . As an ECO builder every house I've built in the last 15 years has had a decent size rain water tank,usually under a deck. A small pressure pump feeds the kitchen sink , a dual filter system under, and a separate tap on top.... Lots of good drinking and cooking water...............But that's not all ..... here's the best part ..... Hook up the garden hose to the tank and you can wash down the boat, the trailer and flush the motor...... Who cares what level restrictions are introduced !!!! Tight lines guys JIMMY

[gunna]

The council and government seem to be doing a lot of nothing. If I realized we were in drought back then then why the hell didn't they and start doing something a lot earlier?

I have a lot of concerns about the common sense or lack thereof over the decissions the council are making. And as you say, there is water out there we could be tapping into which is just going out to sea. One has to wonder. :-/

Poodoo

Excellent points Bungie.

Poodroo - I read an article in the Courier Mail the other week about a large fertiliser (I think) plant near the mouth of the Brissy River which is the 2nd biggest user of water in the Brisbane Council. HUGE amount per day. They have been pushing the council to give them recycled water fron the nearby treatment plant. Council won't come to the party - why - because they make too much money from the fresh water the company uses. How is that for hypocracy !!!!!

[S.S.]

I've got four large tanks that equates to about two years worth of water for my household ...... I've been on tank water for 12 years and have never once needed to have water trucked in.... I regularly hose off the verandah, water my plants, wash my boats and cars...... however none of it is ever wasted. taps are never left running and our showers are pretty quick. Maybe I can start selling some of my water to SEQ Water ;)

[tunaman]

What about this idear. Our streets and roadways all lead to the stormwater drains, and like someone said, it all goes out to sea right!
Why doesnt the goverment grow a brain, and connect the pipes at the end, then connect them to a underground pumping station, and pump
it strait to the treatment plant, just outside of town, then to holding tanks for the towns or
city use. No town or city would ever run out of water again, and at half
the cost of a dam, plus it doesnt affect people or the enviroment.
and the good thing about water is that, it can be stored underground.
So were,s the prob with that.
I just dont understand, this is what I would do if I were in goverment.
Its win, win, win, all the way!

signed tunaman

[hussy]

trouble is the gutters are full of cigarette butts , drunks, roadkill etc . i think i would rather recycled poo water . hubby

[tunaman]

Well you can look at it this way. Drink your own crap or put up with 10%
of what gets washed down the drain. In water catchment areas,you have fish breeding in it, and water birds sh$ting in it. Come on!
I think I mentioned water treatment. I know what I,d rather drink, and we have been drinking catchment water for decades.
Befour you comment, make sure you have a point.


signed tunaman

[PinHead]

How much would it cost in every house to rip wall sheets off and disconnect the toilet plumbing and then reconnect it to recycled water and then re-sheet and paint...am not going to do that here.

[marlinqld]

plenty of water in redlands...... dams full, pipe runs from straddie..we can wash car and boat any day long as hose has trigger nozzle or twist nozzle

Mike

[tunaman]

Well said, Pinhead.




signed tunaman

[tunaman]

No one can say this is a bad idear. Were I live, I dont see drunks or roadkill or nicko sticks in my street. I think everyone would drink happly
if they new it came from their streets, instead of the sewage pond, or like pinhead said, from your own toilet. :P
If you wont the commonsense side of things, please tell me. I just hope the goverment people are watching this, and I know they are.



signed tunaman

[Lifestyle]

Tunaman good idea . Water is taken from the north pine river now. it is already happening in the pine rivers shire which is just north of brisbane ( the big pump station on dayboro road across from lake there.) Water is pumped from the river to the filtration pant at petrie. At dayboro the water is taken out of the creek where a well is and then pumped to the treatment plant at dayboro for the town to drink. You can't put pump stations on storm water lines though as the can't be preassureised ( you would keep popping all the storm water lids and the pipes would leak.) The only way to go is recycling grey water. From the treatment plants(sewerage) to the dams would only be about 15-20 kms. Not far to lay a water main. And if i put a glass of grey water in front of you you wouldn't know if it can from a tap or not. Grey water gets treated to the epas standards it goes on sports fields and in to our creeks any way so why not our dams.The state pollys need to act now to lay these pipes. Its any thing but drinking your own poo.

[Poodroo]

#Its any thing but drinking your own poo.

I really don't know why people are so hung up on the recycled water. For one thing we aren't going to be drinking poo. If there was any doubt whatsoever about the water's purity do you think they would be allowed to offer it to us? I guess the government once again has stuffed up when offering the recycled water to us. If they had of said that they would recycle it and use it to flush the toilets it would have been a much more well received idea. But back to the recycling, it isn't as if it was going to be recycled and head straight to the taps. It was going to be pumped into the dams and then further filtered by nature anyway and then head to the pumping stations where it was going to be further treated and hit with the usual chlorine and I have no problem with that at all. Anything is better than running out of water I reckon and yes I think Tunaman's idea is a good one as well.

Poodroo

[rough_shag]

What a JOKE!! water shortage is not due to drought, although drought and fire are a natural and necessary process in this country regardless of how many homes or factories we build.Common sense tells you that if you have the same water storage capacity but double or even triple the usage you will end up in deficit-simple.How much has the population increased in SEQ over the last decade? how much extra water storage has been built?......not rocket science is it?.

[rough_shag]

Reducing water usage with dual flush toilets and low use shower roses etc etc is just a stop gap,band aid nonesense to appease the unthinking masses and once again place responsibility onto the lowest common denominator.....us,thus making everyone feel all warm and fuzzy because theyre doing something proactive about the situation.All the measures in the world are only postponing the inevitable.And as has been pointed out many times before,industry uses astronomical amounts of water 24hrs a day with very little restriction why? because industry's profitability and viability are far more important to government than you or I.After the wet season brings plenty of rain and tops up the dams water will again become a non-issue until the next dry spell and who knows how many extra homes/factories will have been hooked up to the water supply by then.

[davez104]

Reducing water usage with dual flush toilets and low use shower roses etc etc is just a stop gap,band aid nonesense to appease the unthinking masses and once again place responsibility onto the lowest common denominator.....us,

Um, is this a bad thing? I realise what you are saying about industry and that certainly needs to be addressed, but building more and more water storages is not the answer. Our estuary systems need to have some floodwater run through them to maintain the health of the system. Water wastage is in issue that really needs to be addressed, and water recycling is a part of that. Even if the recycled water is only used to flush the loo, water the garden etc it would still reduce the burden on the water storages. I would hate to see the storages get to the point where the water board simply cannot pump any more water to the city, imagine that. If the situation is not addressed, it will happen.

Dave.

[Slider]

Speaking of water wastage - at Teewah we all have bores and my neighbour absolutely loves having so much water to throw around. This morning he has been sprinkling his already saturated lawn from the 3 inches of rain we've had this week and drizzle this morning for 3 hours so far. He has a petrol pump that is noisy and that I've told him in no uncertain terms that I do not enjoy, but he is incredibly persistent in using the damn thing. I use mine to wash the Hilux about once a fortnight. Every weekend it's the same thing whether it's raining or not - fires it up within minutes of arriving on a Friday night. His 50th birthday party not long ago, everybody got drenched when they went for a leak as he couldn't even turn it off for the party. I stand and applaud when he f$!ks off back to Brissy every Sunday. He wonders why I don't like him and he has actually asked me to supply the fat bastard with slugs. ::) - No chance!!!

[rough_shag]

It's probably worth mentioning here also that ALL water is actually recycled and redistributed all over the planet.Water is never lost as such ,just lost to an area only to be reprocessed by natural means and rained down elsewhere.Other countries have massive populations compared to here but seem to manage well enough which begs the question 'why are we with such a relatively small population having difficulty storing /supplying water' and the answer doesn't lay in weather patterns and drought. If you have x amount of population/industry then you require x amount of water storage/supply.If the population/usage increases you must increase capacity to maintain supply.Keeping storage/supply at static levels whilst the usage explodes cannot be remedied by cutting back individual usage which only postpones the inevitable.Without a clean and continuous water supply a civilisation is simply not viable.
It's also interesting to note that for overall landmass Australia has the second highest rainfall per capita in the entire world!! and the one country that has more is on the polar circle and it's water is trapped as ice!.So ours really is a problem of containment and distribution which is why we have all the highly paid people with degrees-aren't they doing a great job of it!.

[Camo]

What a JOKE!! water shortage is not due to drought, although drought and fire are a natural and necessary process in this country regardless of how many homes or factories we build.Common sense tells you that if you have the same water storage capacity but double or even triple the usage you will end up in deficit-simple.How much has the population increased in SEQ over the last decade? how much extra water storage has been built?......not rocket science is it?.


To true mate. They should start water recycling while there is still enough water in the dam to recycle. It might mean we wouldn't have to go to level 4.


Camo

[Poodroo]

I think the government are just exercising their power through all these water restrictions and as per usual taking the wrong approach to solving the problems. They can have level 10 water restrictions but we will still run out of water at this rate. :-X >:(

Poodroo

[PinHead]

if there is such a water shortage then why are people still permitted to water gardens and lawns...stuff the plants...most lawns will spring up as soon as it rains...watering of gardens and lawns should have the been the first things banned.

[Steven78]

I just installed a 5000L tank and its now full. I use the high presser cleaner and Bin to flush the motor. Just installed new taps in the house and a new tolet fush system. I am very worried about water as this current goverment has yet to build something its all talk. We all have to do something

[Jackinthebox]

Saw a story on tv last week about the purple pipes being laid in the new subdivisions north of the Gold coast.

These are for recycled water which is to be plumbed to the toilets and yard I think as per new laws? At this point, nothing else was mentioned so the council/govt has got something in the "pipeline".

They'd better have, as it stands here on the Goldie currently,

- We have a full dam, but will be on level 4 restrictions soon like everyone else? (I notice they're pretty quiet about the Hinze dam level now on the news when showing Wivenhoe, etc at sub 30% levels)

- You can't wash the boat or car with a quick spray of the hose but you can use buckets(and use about 5 times as much water?)

- The old falcon hasn't had a wash in 6 months but the old duck across the road can piss water all over the grass in her yard for an hour or so every couple of days with the hose because she's over 70?

- This drought is the "worst on record" but virtually no one's got water tanks and it's pissed down three nights this week already?

Hey, what's that sound? It's raining again outside right now!

Cheers,

late night grumble bum.

[Poodroo]

Yes it is carzy huh Jackinthebox? I did my own little experiment the other day (glad I didn't get caught doing it). My wife and I drive his and hers Pajeros and a couple of weekends ago I decided to take a water meter reading prior to washing the cars. My car I washed using a water jet nozzle which basically restricts the water flow heaps. Once the car was wet I turned the tap off and proceeded to wash the car. Using this method I took another meter reading and recorded it once I finished washing the car. Then I did my wife's car but this time using the bucket method. Did a final meter reading and then worked it all out as best I could. The bucket method actually used nearly 40 litres of water as oposed to 14 litres using the hose.

Poodroo

[Steven78]

I think the bucket method would turn most people off washing cars thus saving water as a hole.
Just an idea.

[IcemanII]

Thinking of getting one of those ex food chemical 1100L tanks of ebay and connecting it to my shed down pipes, think with the rain we have had lately it would be still overflowing. Figure I should be able to get 10/20 washes out of it using a water blaster and probably be able to flush the engine as well.

[SeaHunt]

Speaking of water wastage - at Teewah we all have bores and my neighbour absolutely loves having so much water to throw around. This morning he has been sprinkling his already saturated lawn from the 3 inches of rain we've had this week and drizzle this morning for 3 hours so far. He has a petrol pump that is noisy and that I've told him in no uncertain terms that I do not enjoy, but he is incredibly persistent in using the damn thing. I use mine to wash the Hilux about once a fortnight. Every weekend it's the same thing whether it's raining or not - fires it up within minutes of arriving on a Friday night. His 50th birthday party not long ago, everybody got drenched when they went for a leak as he couldn't even turn it off for the party. I stand and applaud when he f$!ks off back to Brissy every Sunday. He wonders why I don't like him and he has actually asked me to supply the fat bastard with slugs. #::) - No chance!!!



Do you want me to come and nick his pump? ;D ;D

[Slider]

He locks the thing up Seahunt, so I can't even turn it off when he leaves on Sundays with a tank full of juice still in it.
Wish you could - that might force him into putting power on like the rest of us and purchasing an electric job.

[Bill_Klein]

Slider you could whittle a hole in the side of the tank so he dont notice to let the water out then he cant start the petrol pump
just a thought

[Slider]

You shouldn't give me ideas like that Outdoor Guy. :-/

Anyway, I couldn't do such things to my neighbours irrespective of their own behaviour. Would simply be lowering myself to their standard.

Maybe some sand in the fuel tank when they're asleep????????
Or turning the sprinkler heads around so that spray his verandah??? What about ........

See!! See what happens!! Told you not to give me ideas! ;D

[Reef_fisher]

i think in the big cities at least, that water became too easy to get. 50yrs ago just about every house in brisbane had water tanks, and because you had a limited amount you used it wisely. i think we are paying the price now. just like oil, you get used to having plentiful supplies. gee i guess you could say the same for fish. maybe we have to think about our consumption a little more as well as some of the suggestions here. we have the driest continent on earth folks, doesn't take a genious to realise what has to be done. governments, all three levels, are only usually in for short periods of time and throughout history have neglected long term projects because they wont be around to take the credit. anyway i will get off the soapbox now.