Goldfish for livebait

[tunaman]

Someone said goldfish would be a good livebait, are they
subjected to a diffirent law, or is it a baitfish like any other
livebait. Just asking, coz a mate said he uses them :-/ :-/ :-/
To all pet lover, its just a Question.





signed tunaman :o

[finga64]

Against the law in QLD for freshwater matey.
A lot of goldfish are in the carp family and thusly scum sucking native fish killers or as others would say notious pests.
If I'm wrong I really hope someone more knowledgeable corrects me but as I understand they're illegal to use.
You've done the right thing though and asked. Better then not :)
Are you wanting to fish fresh or salty water with them??? I've heard they great bait as well for salty water and some people say that the carp buster plant fertiliser is good in the burley bucket

[tunaman]

Thanks for that, but I think a goldfish is a diffirent species, and not a carp. But he uses them Quite regularly, and I had a talk about it with him
and hes sure its all right.
I said Id ask for him.




signed tunaman :-/

[flyfisho]

it is from the same family as carp and is definatly illeagal , imagine your local hole having fish with weird sores or somthing like that because a goldfish is carying some pet shop disese
if your mate is that hard up for a feed I wil give him money for a steak there is plenty of native fish you could use that won' promote disease
well done for asking though

[Big_unit]

This has got to be a gee up.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Cheers
James

[tunaman]

Flyfisho. I tried to tell him this, but I dont think he,ll listen. the penalties
for this are very hard, and possible jail time, but disease fish from a petshop I didnt know. I( was on the thinking, that the petshop owner
would be, by law, to make sure, that the the fish in Question would be treated for disease for the reason of people flushing them down the toilet or other wise. no Bigunit, Im interested in this my self.
On one hand I see the fishing advantage, and on the other,
I didnt know my self for sure.
This is why it doesnt hurt to ask, even thou it may sound a bit simple, but believe it or not, I dont know everything.
Good to hear from you.

signed tunaman

[Archer]

but disease fish from a petshop I didnt know. I( was on the thinking, that the petshop owner
would be, by law, to make sure, that the the fish in Question would be treated for disease for the reason of people flushing them down the toilet or other wise.
signed tunaman

Nah mate theres no law on petshop owners and if there was you would be paying a few grand per fish. ;D
Flushed down the loo isnt a big deal as it all gets treated at the sewrage plant. That and most fish parasites/disease dont last long without an alive host to feed from.
Def give your mate a kick up the ass and get him sorted. Legal or not its just plain wrong to introduce forgien fish into new waters.
We had a mate throw a gold fish into our dam thinking he wont last long in there (heavily stocked with silvers and bass some pushing 5lb) we thought nothing of it. One afternoon about 4 months later whilst walking around the dam i spot this massive orange goldfish all of about 60cm's long.
Needless to say a quick trip to the shed to grab the fly rod abit of bread burley and he was soon compost......
Always good to ask mate thats for sure no such thing as a dumb question. ;)

Joe

[ele-phrez]

I hope your friend gets slotted for it. sorry for being blunt but thats how I feel about posibility putting noxious fish in to the water ways to destroy our natives, espiecally when there are groups that are trying their best to get rid of these pests

[tunaman]

I relayed the message to him, but he came back with one more to his defence.
He says, the ones he uses are the ones with big goglie eyes and frilly
fins, and says they have no chance of breading, and nor will they be able to servive if they escape, but he did say he buys them from a friend, and
are taken home and put in his tank.
I dont know anything about pet fish, but he says the chemacals that he puts in the water rules out the chance of disease or parisites.
It sounds fair enough :-/ :-/ :-/

[Fishin_Dan]

I relayed the message to him, but he came back with one more to his defence.
He says, the ones he uses are the ones with big goglie eyes and frilly
fins, and says they have no chance of breading, and nor will they be able to servive if they escape, but he did say he buys them from a friend, and
are taken home and put in his tank.
I dont know anything about pet fish, but he says the chemacals that he puts in the water rules out the chance of disease or parisites.
It sounds fair enough :-/ :-/ :-/

As someone who used to breed fish, he is lying to you...

[cbs]

Newby back here.

If you don't believe every one here, use google and search for Caulerpa Taxifolia. It's a macro algae (weed) that occurs naturally in queensland waters. It is now running wild in places like the med. and also the southern states of Australia causing real headaches by choking up the waterways. It is non native to these areas, and is now illegal to possess in most parts of australia. Was common in aquariums.

As for gold fish, if my memory serves me correct, New Zealand dams and waterways contain goldfish, beceause people threw away their gold fish bowls during the construction of hydro dams. I was told this as a kid many years ago during a holiday there. Google may also bring this up.

cbs

[Archer]

I relayed the message to him, but he came back with one more to his defence.
He says, the ones he uses are the ones with big goglie eyes and frilly
fins, and says they have no chance of breading, and nor will they be able to servive if they escape, but he did say he buys them from a friend, and #
are taken home and put in his tank.
I dont know anything about pet fish, but he says the chemacals that he puts in the water rules out the chance of disease or parisites.
It sounds fair enough :-/ :-/ :-/

Mostly goldfish are all the same species, The frilly ones are actually genetic defects bred into them to make them look special.
As for the treating them with chemicals ;D ;D No not possible mate.
Tell him to stop being a cheap ass and go buy some bait or catch some local live bait either that or get some lures.

Joe

[maztez]

Hasnt this subject been discussed before????
cheers Terry

[Poodroo]

Goldfish are egg scatterers meaning they literally scatter thousands of eggs in one session all over plants and substrate and about 2 to 3 times per year. Australian native fish breed once a year which means that anything like carp or goldfish if they manage to get started in our waterways will very quickly over populate and the native fish are unable to compete for food etc. Goldfish and carp are largely vegetation eaters and they also destroy the local aquatic plants. This is why the government imposes heavy fines for anyone caught introducing foriegn species of any description into our local waterways whether it be carp, goldfish. cichlids (mainly tilapia) and also live bearers like gambosia, swordtails, guppies, platys etc. People need to act responsibly when it comes to our waterways because what we do to our environment today is not only going to affect our environment now but for future generations.

Poodroo

[imnotoriginal]

My first thought was it was illegal, I remember seeing some stuff about it at the ekka years ago. On the other hand, I have seen photos of goldfish being used as bait over in the UK, but that's the poms...
Joel

[onerabbit]

I had a dim-witted pommy mate years ago that put 6 fantailed goldfish in a farm dam. We suffered a really bad drought about 3 years later & the dam dried out.
I finished up carting about 5 wheelbarrows full of 6-8 inch goldfish out when it was down to a puddle, pretty good evidence that even the fancy ones will breed in the wild.

Muzz

[tunaman]

Hey! Dont put me out to dry, I dont use the bloody things, and yes it has been done before, and its for the same knobhead that wont listen.
But he says the goglie eyed ones, or genetic defected bred ones cant escape the preditors or have the instinct, nor have the speed to get out of the way of larger fish allready in the water system, he goes on to say.
Turtles, eels, waterbirds, bass, and the list when on and on, that these
perticlur goldfish stand a zero% chance of survival.
Ive seen these doppy fish before in petshops, and cant see how they would last 5 minutes. And you can treat the water in fishtanks for fungle, and bacterial problems, so I dont know were you got that from.
And the petshops owners have a Quarantine peroid before they go on sale to the public, just for that reason. Also the goldfish in Question,
would not survive in some of our waterways, simply because of the pollution and the oxygen levels, and he goes on to say, once their
on the hook, they die within 15 to 30 minutes, so he doesnt see what all the fuss is about.
In my words, they banned the use of goldfish, because some people cant define the difference between the threatening and non threatening
spieces.
And what Ive found out so far, only a very small number can adaped
to wild conditions, the rest would just simply die.
Personaly I would take the chance for the obvious reasons.


signed tunaman

[tunaman]

One rabbit. There in a dam, thats just like a big fishtank, no predators.
He uses them in the murray river NSW, I said to him, thats probably
how the crap got in there in the first place.
Had no comment for that one.



signed tunaman

[Poodroo]

Hey! Dont put me out to dry, I dont use the bloody things, and yes it has been done before, and its for the same knobhead that wont listen.
But he says the goglie eyed ones, or genetic defected bred ones cant escape the preditors or have the instinct, nor have the speed to get out of the way of larger fish allready in the water system, he goes on to say.
Turtles, eels, waterbirds, bass, and the list when on and on, that these
perticlur goldfish stand a zero% chance of survival.
Ive seen these doppy fish before in petshops, and cant see how they would last 5 minutes. And you can treat the water in fishtanks for fungle, and bacterial problems, so I dont know were you got that from.And the petshops owners have a Quarantine peroid before they go on sale to the public, just for that reason. Also the goldfish in Question,
would not survive in some of our waterways, simply because of the pollution and the oxygen levels, and he goes on to say, once their
on the hook, they die within 15 to 30 minutes, so he doesnt see what all the fuss is about.
In my words, they banned the use of goldfish, because some people cant define the difference between the #threatening and non threatening
spieces.
And what Ive found out so far, only a very small number can adaped
to wild conditions, the rest would just simply die.
Personaly I would take the chance for the obvious reasons.


signed tunaman

Hi again Tunaman, it is good that you are aware of the fact that goldfish are not a good idea to use as bait. Firstly with regards to tank treating for bacterial and fungal infections on fish, yes they can be treated with medications but it is like us when we get a flu or viral infection. We get over it with the aid of medication however all it means is our bodies will develop an immunity to that strain of virus. In the case of fish they do exactly that but they can still carry these deseases which other fish have no immunity to so you run the risk of introducing diseases to other fish. Being a former aquarist it was not uncommon to buy a healthy fish from a shop and introduce it into the home aquarium and the next day find everything rolling over due to a severe infection which has effected everything except for the fish you put in there. :-/
As for adaptability of goldfish they are indeed a very hardy species and breed rapidly. Whether or not they will survive is not up to us to decide as the government have made the laws up to minimize the risk and if you get caught they will slap hefty fines for using them dead or alive. Just my 2 cents. ;)

Poodroo

[shayned]

Hey Cool, it would be like having a self swimming Gold Bomber lure what a great idea, sign me up!!!! Hey Tuna Man, let him know I can swap him some Slider Turtles, all the mouth breeders and carp he can handle and just to sweeten the deal I'll chuck in some cane toads and hares completely free of charge. Do the goose a favour and show him how to collect bardi grubs, scrub worms, shrimp, yabbies and livies before he does something we all live to regret. >:(

[banshee]

Bottom line is they are Carp and it is against the law to transport Carp to a waterway,use them for bait or release them into a waterway dead or alive,they actualy should be disposed of well away from the bank.

[choppa]

i'm sure chopjr had a say in this very subject a while back,,,,,,,,,,,, ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


is this the same """"mate"""" from townsville who uses goldies for barra?????????

mmmmmmmmmm,,,,,,,i wonder tunaman,,,, i've seen you on this very subject only a week or so back,,,, remember this query,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,



tunaman
Ausfish Silver Member


Ausfish.com.au

Gender:
Re: odd live baits
« Reply #21 - on: 15. Sep 2006 at 17:26 »

Goldfish. I never thought of that one. But now thinking about it, I think it would work like a charm, and with all those frilly fins,and golden colour, it would sit like a shot duck. But the petshop guy might get a bit sus.

Cats. mmmmm, no tunaman stayaway.



signed tunaman



,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,choppa,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[onerabbit]

Tunaman,

I understand the point about the dam having no predators, but these were fantails with tails the lenght of their body ( 6-8inches), no googlie eyes.
I dont think anyone is having a go at you, I think you have pursued it for the right reason. If anyone deserves a steel-cap in the freckle it's your mate, no matter how he tries to justify his actions, eg, they'll just die or get eaten, IT'S ILLEGAL & stupid.
Perhaps you could show him this thread, he may see the error in his ways.

Muzz

[maxwellson]

youre mates a goose tunaman
some solid words from you and the steel cap intro to finish off would be applicable for this. ;D ;D ;D
its clearly against the law made to protect the waterways for us
mpo
regards Maxi

[onerabbit]

Hey Maxi,

Hows all the carp in creek down from the koi farm at the castle????

How the hell do they get away with that???????

Muzz

[bidkev]

What Poodroo says. Bacteria is present in all waters. Fish become susceptible when they are handled or netted. You can take a "perfectly" quarantined, and supposedly healthy fish home from an aquarist and within 24 to 48 hrs it could be showing signs of white spot or fungus. Once the slime is removed from their flesh via netting or handling and they are subject to stress they have their immunity removed. A simple drop in temp, or change of PH can even trigger white spot which is why you should not only equalise the temp in the bag with that of the tank, you should also introduce the tank water slowly into the bag.

I am not saying that live baiting is likely to introduce white spot as the fish wouldn't live long enough to show signs of that, but it could in some way be a "carrier" and even more likely, the water it is transported in would carry the dormant strain of white spot.

With regard to their abilty to breed (and they can hybridise with common carp thereby exacerbating our current stocks of noxious fish), I stocked my garden pond with 10 fish 18 months ago and depite the local heron and the fact that I have given over 30 away, I still have a population of over 100 and that's only counting those over 2" in length. If anything, I consider goldfish to be more noxious than common carp. Consider the size of my pond and the fact that the goldfish spawn is easily found and eaten by the parents, then consider the size of a dam and how much harder it would be for the spawn to be found and how much more likely the fish are to in turn grow to maturity faster and breed more prolifically.

FWIW and at the risk of attracting hassle from those who have been in the industry, quarantine is next to useless if the fish are bagged up in the water from the quarantine tank and that water is then emptied into the display tank. All the quarantine has done is remove the white spot from the fish and not affected the dormant spores in the water. I stand corrected if some other medication is now in use since I was in the trade. The only way to be sure is to continue to medicate even after the fish looks "cured" in order to kill the spores as they hatch to re-start the cycle. That is, you need to buy from an aquarist who medicates almost continually not just in the quarantine tank...the danger then, as Poodroo has ponted out, is that fish can become immune to the medication, but at least it kills the spores as they hatch. Put simply, whenever you buy a fish, it is likely that the water from the quarantine tank will have found it's way into the display tank.

kev

[onerabbit]

We have both proved that the little suckers will happily breed, given the chance, even with the consideration of natural diseases.
Admittedly, the chances of a fish surviving after being used as a live bait are slim, but not impossible. Who knows if this person also just chucks his last couple when he is finished, "they will die anyway".

If they are that susceptable to natural disease & natural predators how the hell did the few that were introuced so many years ago become the problem that they are today????????

Just my opinion.

Muzz

[tunaman]

Well fellas, #as Ive pointed out, hes not the sharpest tool in the shed,
But thats a good idea about printing this out just to show him that if he mentions it out loud, or doesnt stop altogether, he will cop some heavy heat from both the law, and other responceable rec fishos.



But two things he pointed out is, 1. There allready crap were he fishes,
and 2 the goglie eyed ones pose no threat, to his logic.

And Iam interested my self in what members have to say about this.
and I wonder how many other people out there that might be doing this.
He states that the method reaps a high reward, and I said, but at what
cost!
He thinks like the drink driver,'' Ill never get caught.''
One rabbit. I agree 100% its the what if that bothers me.

signed tunaman

[tunaman]

Kingtin, poodroo, what a great read, Maybe I should offer him member
ship on AUSFISH just for a educational chat.
You never no, he might just learn something.
Thanks everyone.




signed tunaman

[maxwellson]

yeah one rabbit
ive seen some whoppers below the dam wall also at least 60 cm big glowing orange fish ;D ;D ;D
cheers maxi

[Charlie]

You’ll find goldfish in virtually every river in NSW and Vic,don’t know about QLD, I believe they are relatively benign but the fish of disease transmission very real, don’t use it’s illegal and dangerous to our native fish and your wallet if caught by fisheries. If you know their there the Halco Poltergeist with a bit of gold is not a bad lure to try.
Charlie

[Poodroo]

Hey tunaman, try convince your mate to keep them out of our waterways but he can try them on sandwiches. Might work on the boy. ;) ;D

Poodroo

[tunaman]

hmmmmmm. Goldfish sandwiches ;D ;D ;D ;D I,ll have to give that one some thought ;D
Maybe I could deep fry them in bread crumbs, and tell him that fish fingers come in a new shape, ;)
Thanks poodroo ::), I can allways count on you to finish the post off in style.
Man! Ill ever hear the end of this. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
But stay turned! ;D ;D


signed tunaman :)

[fish_outta_water]

hi guys
your right in that us pommes used to use goldfish as pike baits , now its total illeagal as transport of pests/ diease etc. pretty sure livebaiting in most freshwater has been banned as well ,if you bother listenin to the rules anymore ::)
to move anyfish from one lake to another you need a section 31 form and its advised to treat the fish in malakite (spelt wrong) to kill parasites

tunaman just when you think this thread has died down someone will resurect ala "drumlines for shark" you shouldve used a psydonym ;)
tightlines

[Poodroo]

Haha. You're so welcome Tunaman. ;)

Poodroo

[onerabbit]

Hey Maxi,

maybe the Tintenbar club can put on a "carp killing day", prizes for the best, just a thought .

Muzz

[ssbayguide]

Hi All

Just came in late on this one.

About three years ago, I was advised thate people were using goldfish to catch big barra in the Black weir section of the Ross River in Townsville.

Of course it is illegal and the guys were fishing during the closed season as well. I always wonder about this practice and in my eight years in Townsville, the debate was ongoing as to whether these anglers were targeting Barramundi.

Hmmm....




Peter R

[rando]

Kev
My aquarium guy recommends transfering new fish to the tank by net, and discarding the water they were transported in. Theory being it reduces the chance of introducing foriegn organisms to your tank.
My opinion(fwiw) of a guy using goldfish for bait.... irresponsable ######!
rando

[bidkev]

Kev
My aquarium guy recommends transfering new fish to the tank by net, and discarding the water they were transported in. Theory being it reduces the chance of introducing foriegn organisms to your tank.
My opinion(fwiw) of a guy using goldfish for bait.... irresponsable ######!
rando

rando, that may be the safer option to prevent transfer of pathogens but the fish is subjected to double the slime damage by netting twice. It also doesn't allow for the equalisation of temperature or PH and further subjects the fish to shock which in turn creates greater susceptibility to fungal infections.

I would question (myself) whether this retailer has confidence in his water being pathogen free because what he's actually doing is inferring that your newly bought fish (and the others in your tank, are at a greater risk from his water than from excessive handling and PH and temperature shock.

kev

The Chinese word for "crisis" contains two characters. One of them means "opportunity".

[marty+jojo]

your mate is a f*#kwit

[tunaman]

Thats true, but some people just dont get it. Thats the good thing about
sites like this, once it has been talked about, and the facts have been set straight, you just tell the person to have a vist to the site and they will get the message.

P/S The power of the many out weighs the igorance of the one.




signed tunaman

[Gbanger]

http://www2.dpi.qld.gov.au/fishweb/14434.html

http://www.abc.net.au/goulburnmurray/stories/s1078870.htm

[landbasedtossa]

Goldfish are classed as a non-indigenous fish and any release of them into a waterway in Qld will incur a fine of up to $150,000 . Why is it that some people refuse to see the big picture ? Your mate is a goose, do something about it.
I had a 'mate' who used to square hook the Crystal Ck area, which didn't really bother me until I overheard him skiting about the 60 undersized barra he'd netted the week before. I dobbed him in, they confiscated his nets and fined him. I had nothing to do with him after that and didn't regret my actions for a second.

[Sillaginid]

Guys
I work for fisheries dealing with inland pest fish and you would be surprised at what can survive in waterways when released. Goldfish are a sister species to carp and definitely illegal to release into any waterway or use as live bait. You may be surprised that in some areas of Queensland goldfish can be nearly as common as carp, and yes the two species can produce hybrids. Many of the wild goldfish and their offspring lose their ornamental colouration and can appear very similar to carp and are thus not noticed. It only takes as few as two fish of a species to be released into an area for a population to begin. Unfortunately, most new populations of pest fish are spread by people. Most commonly it is by people dumping their unwanted aquarium fish, but occasionally also by fisho's using illegal species for live bait, or the really low-life scum who deliberately release pests for their own fishing pleasure. Even keeping and using goldfish in a dam is not that safe. All it takes is a heavy rainfall for the dam to flood and then the fish that were in it now have access to the local creek. With regards to disease, I believe the scariest part is that they have the potential to be ideal carriers and vectors if a new disease gets into the Australian waterways. Being so genetically distinct from native species they may be able to survive an infection, but pass it on to the native species where it could be detrimental.
So please, do not use goldfish or any other non-native fish for bait.
Cheers
Andrew

[Glind]

Dob him in, he deserves it.
Tim

[blue-mako]

You arn't allowed to release or use any aquarium fish as bait. This is obviously to stop intorducing new pest fish stocks and diseases.

It is even illegal to release native fish because people who release noxious fish just say "Oh, I thought the fish was a native to this area".

Yes, the chemicals can reduce the diseases in a fish tank, but it doesn't mean they can't re-develop them once released.

Troy

[tunaman]

Thank you blue mako. Keep up the good work. 8-)

P/S On the odd livebait thread, I was just kidding. Thank you for pointing that out. The names of the baits were changed in the name of comedy. ;D




signed tunaman :)

[Adamy]

A few years ago a mate took me the the river in Ipswich that runs through the suburb of leichardt (did I spell it right? which river is that? - Its freshwater)) anyway we saw what appeared to be massive goldfish in the 1-1/2 kilo range - some over 40cms. There were quite large schools of them and no they werent Carp, I have caught many carp and know the difference.

Anyway as another poster said they had transformed into a different "thing" and had lost most of their colouration and were now an olive green type of colour although there were still a few in each school with the same mottle goldfish colours. Anyway I couldnt believe it so I threw a net over them to have a closer look. They were indeed large tho transformed/deformed Goldfish. Now I wish I had taken a photo. But at that time there were hundreds of them in that stretch of the river. I suppose if you went down there today they may still be there.

So my suggestion is that they definitely will survive and most probably destroy the river system - keep them out and if you see one - kill it. They make great fertiliser - apparently.

[Poodroo]

A few years ago a mate took me the the river in Ipswich that runs through the suburb of leichardt (did I spell it right? which river is that? - Its freshwater)) anyway we saw what appeared to be massive goldfish in the 1-1/2 kilo range - some over 40cms. #There were quite large schools of them and no they werent Carp, I have caught many carp and know the difference.

Anyway as another poster said they had transformed into a different "thing" and had lost most of their colouration and were now an olive green type of colour although there were still a few in each school with the same mottle goldfish colours. #Anyway I couldnt believe it so I threw a net over them to have a closer look. #They were indeed large tho transformed/deformed Goldfish. #Now I wish I had taken a photo. But at that time there were hundreds of them in that stretch of the river. I suppose if you went down there today they may still be there.

So my suggestion is that they definitely will survive and most probably destroy the river system - keep them out and if you see one - kill it. They make great fertiliser - apparently.

These are known as "Shubunkins" Adam and yet another hybrid or sub-species. Just another example of how they can survive in our waterways. Bottom line to everyone which has now been well emphasized is "DON'T DO IT.... KEEP THEM OUT OF OUR WATERWAYS!"

Poodroo

[HAZY]

Kingtin, poodroo, what a great read, Maybe I should offer him member
ship on AUSFISH just for a educational chat.
You never no, he might just learn something.
Thanks everyone.




signed tunaman
wat a great idea it doesnt cost anything and it saves you from copping the slack,it seems to me that you must know this "mate" very very very well to him to come out of the closet and speak for him self or is he/she?????

[tunaman]

Not every ones up to date like the people on Ausfish. Its better to educate than call the law. He will learn Quicker if he is caught on his
own. I have found by doing it this way he can read the fishing comuities objections, and when and if he is caught, he has no one to blame but him self.
At leased we,ve tried.



signed tunaman