legality of river access

[B.F.A.]

Was wondering if anyone out there has had any trouble with farmers and getting acces to the water around the brisbane area, and where you stand legally in regards to how far up the bank you are allowed to be?

Matt

[Big_unit]

On the other hand we have had trouble with people using the river, generally very destructive and often very grubby, thats why we stopped access to our section of the Mary (12 kms of frontage on two farms totalling over 700 acres). Many Farmers on the Mary are very protective of thier boundaries and there is no legal requirement to grant access to any member of the public as far as I am aware. I know there is a measurement of how far a person can be from the waters edge, Im just not sure what it is though. I do know for a fact that a landholder can ask a person to leave the vicinity of thier property for any reason they see fit and the Police do support the landholder.

We had three fellas camp on our section of river, they lit a fire which took the two local volunteer brigades over 2 days to extinguish. They were fined in court. Another one I will never forget was the family who bought thier 3 pet dogs camping, during the night the dogs chased our herd of 500 milking cows through 7 fences and over 16 acres of fresh sown ryegrass, cost us a fortune ( over $20000 ). Two of the dogs were shot on site. Its people like that who wreck everyone elses chances.

Yet we had 250 Infantry reserve soldiers on survival training excercises move through both properties over 3 days and you would never have known they were there, ther place was spotless and undamaged.

So there is a Farmers point of view for you.

Those properties are often the fruit of generations of blood, sweat & tears, no one but no one is entitled to damage it in any manner. Only a country person can truly understand & appreciate that.

I know its not the Brisbane area but a Farmer is a Farmer where ever you go.

Cheers
James

[finga64]

I'll support you on this one for sure James.
As usual, it's the 2% of morons that spoil it for the 98% wanting to do the right thing.
I had pis#ed #idiots wondering in on my old farm shooting wild pigs. We didn't have wild pigs so they shot my neighbours dog. In the next paddock over were 3 of my quarter horses and an old ASH in foal. I suppose I was lucky they were so big (or they can run) otherwise they might have got the bullet too.
Mongrels also shot the empty bottles at the front gate.
I would have loved to have been there that night #>:(

If I remember right access to water courses is only granted for named water courses. Not sure of the distance from the waters edge on the named courses.

[Feral]

Mate,
Politely contact the farmers along the section you are targeting, most of them are decent people who wont bite your head off (although you may get the odd one!), state your case, have references handy if you fish other farms locally, the farmers will generally be polite in either refusal or permission.

Be sure you talk to them just before and after you visit, for two reasons - 1. it is polite, 2. If some bum sneaks on just after you leave and makes a mongrel of themselves, you wont get the blame!

If you are fishing along the river in canoe or boat, you dont need to ask permission, but if you are planning on asking permission to fish land based sometime, a call to say you will be boating along in front of their place (describe what you look like, type of boat etc) will help them realise you are not a two headed monster. That way they wont worry to much if they see you.

They are more inclined to give permission to someone who has proved they are reliable, so references and polite contact (not endless nagging!) is the way to go.

Once you do get permission, it is for you, not your half dozen yahoo mates! Dont take someone along without telling the cow cockie, and do not take anyone along who is likely to decide they like your fishing spot, and may decide to go on their own! Dont tell anyone else you have permission to fish, you dont want the poor old cockie getting 50 thousand calls to allow people to fish, he will get sick of it and shut it all down, or all the fish will get caught, not want you want either way.


Also if they are doing something labour intensive on the farm during your stay, lending a hand goes a long way to good relations! You could also volunteer to come back and lend a hand when they are busy.


A Lot of farmers think they have more rights over the land they farm than they actually do. They only have complete control of the land if it is freehold, often they hold grazing or other forms of leases over state owned land. Depending on the lease this grants them various rights, but not the same as rights of ownership. It is quite common for there to be many leases held over the same bit of state owned land, grazing leases, timber getting leases, mining leases etc etc

However having said that, you should never push right of access over land they use, it will not win you any friends, after all it is ther livelihood.

Note - there are also many cockies who think they own / can control access to stock routes which traverse their properties. If you ever find a locked gate on a stock route, feel free to cut off the lock!

[Grand_Marlin]

isnt there a thing called a raparian reserve that extends 5m from any high water mark?

This is apparently crown land and acccessible by anyone.

But, as you say, the respect for peoples property is pathetic... you hear it time and time again


If people could do the right thing, then no one would have any drama with them being on their land.

Typical ... a few wrecking it for the majority.

As said though, it is best to ask permission

Cheers

Pete

[Big_unit]

In our case its all freehold land.

Very well put Feral. Dont cut locks though, we had the Police Stock Squad fit locks to some paddocks we leased from the Crown & local council, so that when the locks were removed ( cut ) they could be used as evidence in a pending court proceeding. Also when you lease a property from the Crown / local council or have grazing rights to TSR's ( Travelling Stock Routes ) you are entitled to lock them and can refuse entry whilst they are under your control unless the TSR manager / local council has advised otherwise. You are supposed to put up signage stating it too, although most dont. Generally local councils also support landholders in this regard as well. Drovers often lock gates when stock are put in holding paddocks at night, to stop ferals mongrels from letting them out when they go in shooting at night. I dont understand why anyone would want to shoot / hunt near cattle or sheep in a confined area anyhow ?

PS Considering your name is Feral, I dont reckon you are one.

I agree that most people do the right thing and its a shame that a minority do wreck our fun. Most Farmers do enjoy sharing thier lifestyle with other people and are not generally opposed to letting people have fun on thier place.

[Big_unit]

The only land that cannot be locked out are common's, which are generally owned by a local council and serve two purposes.

1) To give towns people access to Rivers, Dams, Creeks and such.

2) To give rate payers who reside within town boundaries the option of running a set amount of livestock in the town common.

[Big_unit]

Something else that came to mind,

TSR's and other public reserves can be locked out / quarantined for various reasons which include , stopping or preventing the spread of infectious disease's such as footrot, anthrax, botulism & weed infestations such as Giant Rats Tail grass, Lantana, Patersons Curse, Green Cestrum.

Sorry to sound like such a know it all but its been my business and livelyhood to know these things.

[Brett1907]

I enjoy checking this site because of the variety of info available. Always thought to check with landowners before going onto their land (lived in the NT as a kid and travelled A LOT with the parents)

Thanks for the info Big_unit and everyone else, eve though it wasn't my post!!

Brett

[jimboomba_jed]

G'day boys! pretty sure you are allowed to travel up a river or creek as long as you stay in the river itself. the area you can access is within the natural containing banks of the last seasonal flow! boundaries change all the time as banks erode or build(naturally)! as said above, be nice to the surrounding land owners and it might save you a bloody long walk upstream to that waterhole ;)

[PinHead]

I reckon it all has to do with the calibre of the rifle the cockie has aimed at you

[shayned]

Got to agree with you about getting permission except the knockbacks still get on your goat when you know that you would do all the right things. In the end the bloke with the shottie sitting in the gun rack in the ute usually has to be listened to even if its a no.

Also I'm normally catch and release but I offer to drop off some fish if the landowner wants a couple for the table. Doesn't hurt your standing with the farmer normally.

[Big_unit]

Got to agree with you about getting permission except the knockbacks still get on your goat when you know that you would do all the right things. In the end the bloke with the shottie sitting in the gun rack in the ute usually has to be listened to even if its a no.

Also I'm normally catch and release but I offer to drop off some fish if the landowner wants a couple for the table. Doesn't hurt your standing with the farmer normally.


How does the landholder know just by looking at you if you are going to treat his property with care ?

Most farmers dont carry guns in racks, they are behind the seat where the police cant see them.

If you offer to give the farmer some freshwater fish then no wonder he wont let you go in, geez mate no one is that hard up to have to eat that crap.

[Canoedle]

Got to agree with you about getting permission except the knockbacks still get on your goat when you know that you would do all the right things. In the end the bloke with the shottie sitting in the gun rack in the ute usually has to be listened to even if its a no.

Also I'm normally catch and release but I offer to drop off some fish if the landowner wants a couple for the table. Doesn't hurt your standing with the farmer normally.


How does the landholder know just by looking at you if you are going to treat his property with care ?

Most farmers dont carry guns in racks, they are behind the seat where the police cant see them.

If you offer to give the farmer some freshwater fish then no wonder he wont let you go in, geez mate no one is that hard up to have to eat that crap.

James, some people find fresh water fish surprisingly edible, in fact if you have some cullinary skill you might also find them a nice change from throwing a slab of dead shovel nose flesh in a fire...

[banshee]

The Riparian Zone extends for a distance of one Chain (22 yards) from the waters edge on all gazzeted waterways (basicly if it's marked on the map) and last time I looked into it was accesible to all,you cannot however tresspass to get to it.

[disorderly]

James,
Have to agree with Canoedle here.
You would be surprised how many people like a good feed of yellowbelly,murray cod or even the humble old eel tailed cattie.

Cheers Scott

[Fat_Chilli]

Always ask the land owner, unless sign posted, can't go wrong that way.


The Riparian Zone extends for a distance of one Chain (22 yards) from the waters edge

Is that a Survey (Gunter) Chain or an Engineer (Ramsden) Chain? As a Survey chain = 22 yards (20m) and an Engineer Chain = 33 yards (30m).

10 metres could mean the difference between :) and :'(.

[finga64]

Always ask the land owner, unless sign posted, can't go wrong that way.


The Riparian Zone extends for a distance of one Chain (22 yards) from the waters edge

Is that a Survey (Gunter) Chain or an Engineer (Ramsden) Chain? As a Survey chain = 22 yards (20m) and an Engineer Chain = 33 yards (30m).

10 metres could mean the difference between #:) and #:'(.

My anchor (Finga) chain is about 8m long on the big boat ;)

You'd have to inagine using the survey chain wouldn't you?? :-?

[shayned]

Got to agree with you about getting permission except the knockbacks still get on your goat when you know that you would do all the right things. In the end the bloke with the shottie sitting in the gun rack in the ute usually has to be listened to even if its a no.

Also I'm normally catch and release but I offer to drop off some fish if the landowner wants a couple for the table. Doesn't hurt your standing with the farmer normally.


How does the landholder know just by looking at you if you are going to treat his property with care ?

Most farmers dont carry guns in racks, they are behind the seat where the police cant see them.

If you offer to give the farmer some freshwater fish then no wonder he wont let you go in, geez mate no one is that hard up to have to eat that crap.

You're right mate they don't know, and I guess thats all you can expect these days. Still doesn't make the knock backs any easier. As to gun racks I was making light of the situation and showing my age as well, thinking back to when I was lad out on the cattle stations and the racks inside the utes used on the properties. Even at that point it was getting frowned upon, I remember a trip into town with my brother in law years ago where the local coppers kept an overly watchful eye on us. It wasn't until later on that we worked out it was the rifle slung in the rack which was keeping their interest.

Bringing back a feed of prawns on the next trip or some reef fish never hurt the cause but a feed of fresh water jewie left with the owners missus on the way out never hurt either. You can only eat so much beef. ;)

[Fat_Chilli]

My anchor (Finga) chain is about 8m long on the big boat #;)

You'd have to inagine using the survey chain wouldn't you?? :-?

Maybe :P, but what happens if an Engineer designed the lay of the land adjoining the water frontage? (now I'm just being dumb :-X).


So does this law (one chain) apply to all land areas, including those that are residential, i.e. GC water frontage properties? Just curious.

[disorderly]

#IMHO,it doesn't really matter whether the law states 20m or the high water mark.In the end it all boils down to RESPECT!!!
#If in doubt always ask permission and treat the place better than you would your own.
#Like finga and James have mentioned above,our family too have suffered at the hands of moronic would be fisherman ie fat lambs going missing,tools and equipment missing,gates being left open.
#Next time a farmer knocks back your request for entry,try to understand that there is probably a damn good reason why!
#Notice that no-one has mentioned anything about about gazetted roads.If you look at property survey maps,many #have unconstructed gazetted roads and road reserves through them,particularly if they adjoin state land or waterways.

Cheers Scott

Just think how you would react if you found someone hanging about in your backyard.

[Boomi_Boy]

#IMHO,it doesn't really matter whether the law states 20m or the high water mark.In the end it all boils down to RESPECT!!!
#If in doubt always ask permission and treat the place better than you would your own.
#Like finga and James have mentioned above,our family too have suffered at the hands of moronic would be fisherman ie fat lambs going missing,tools and equipment missing,gates being left open.
#Next time a farmer knocks back your request for entry,try to understand that there is probably a damn good reason why!
#Notice that no-one has mentioned anything about about gazetted roads.If you look at property survey maps,many #have unconstructed gazetted roads and road reserves through them,particularly if they adjoin state land or waterways.

# Cheers Scott

# #Just think how you would react if you found someone hanging about in your backyard.

With due respect, the river is OUR backyard, stay within the legally defined zone, enter from a road crossing, or TSR or similar and go fishin!!!. This is Australia, not England, no Lords and peasants here. Do everything right and you are OK, the gun bit is crap, they are in a lot of trouble if they try that!! They own the surrounding land, not the river. I don,t care if someone else did the wrong thing, its no excuse to tar me with the same brush.
Sometimes the landowner is the one with something to hide(traps, nets, crosslines, etc)

cheers

[finga64]

#IMHO,it doesn't really matter whether the law states 20m or the high water mark.In the end it all boils down to RESPECT!!!
#If in doubt always ask permission and treat the place better than you would your own.
#Like finga and James have mentioned above,our family too have suffered at the hands of moronic would be fisherman ie fat lambs going missing,tools and equipment missing,gates being left open.
#Next time a farmer knocks back your request for entry,try to understand that there is probably a damn good reason why!
#Notice that no-one has mentioned anything about about gazetted roads.If you look at property survey maps,many #have unconstructed gazetted roads and road reserves through them,particularly if they adjoin state land or waterways.

# Cheers Scott

# #Just think how you would react if you found someone hanging about in your backyard.

#With due respect, the river is OUR backyard, stay within the legally defined zone, enter from a road crossing, or TSR or similar and go fishin!!!. This is Australia, not England, no Lords and peasants here. Do everything right and you are OK, the gun bit is crap, they are in a lot of trouble if they try that!! They own the surrounding land, not the river. I don,t care if someone else did the wrong thing, its no excuse to tar me with the same brush.
# #Sometimes the landowner is the one with something to hide(traps, nets, crosslines, etc)

# #cheers
I won't try to push that attitude matey.
Your likely to get into a tad of strife I reckon. Where is your respect and good old common courtesy for the tennent of the land.
If your going to push it make sure the water course is a named water course and the TSR or gazetted Rd have not been purchased by the cocky (ie have CURRENT information as the information can change daily) and DO NOT SET ONE FOOT on their land or who knows what will happen.
And good luck. You'll need it.

[Boomi_Boy]

Matey, I never set 1 foot on "THEIR LAND", only ever in OUR RIVER, and I,m fishin, thats it.
Had the gun thing, changed tune when I pulled the mobile, if you aint doin anything wrong theres only a problem in their mind, heaps of em got plenty to hide (traps, nets, etc), lotsa times thats why they are so "upset"

cheers

[finga64]

Good luck mate.
That's all I can say.
Have you ever approached a cocky to see if you can fish around his/her land??

[Boomi_Boy]

I have "permission" on hundreds of kms of river, all I do is fish, and I have a network of "cockies" who will vouch for me, but thats not the point. They are OUR rivers, THEIR land, if you can,t figure out why some are so against "visitors" u are naive. As I said b4, don,t paint everyone with the same brush, many landholders are great custodians, but many are poacher scum, thats life. I,m not asking you to come with me, but no one will stop me LEGALLY fishing in OUR rivers, guns or no guns. Please don,t take this as a personal afront, but in Australia we have the "presumption of innocence" for good reason.

cheers

[mylestom]

Well as a retired farmer, we did originally let people fish on the river.

Result 16 cod over 10lb taken in one night by three anglers( :-?) when they were asked as a condition of entry to take a maximum of only one over that weight.

In one night they trashed the river paddock with their vehicle, left stubbies and broken bottles and cans opened with old type can opener. Left fire still burning and utilised some staked fence posts for fire wood.

Result. well no one was ever granted permission again to enter property, can you blame us.

Yes, I know that most are responsible, but with your business and livelyhood at stake, you can hardly blame the farmer for protecting his investment,livestock and heritage.


Regards

Trev

[Big_unit]

Well said Trev. Thats what Ive been saying all along.

Boomi Boy your very quickly wrecking this informative discussion, dont try to turn this into some kind of argument.

Where did anyone say they were shooting anyone ?

Besides that BB no mobile phone service on our stretch of river.

[Boomi_Boy]

A sad tale Trev, but no reason to point a gun at me, armed with a loomis, shitmano, kodak and 6 spinnerbaits, fishin in OUR river.Especially if I have waded 6kms inthe river, legally, to be there!!

cheers

[andy009]

most farmers like a letter or u can go to there house bring bread and milk and bear they will appreciate the thought and they will most likely let u on

[Boomi_Boy]

I reckon it all has to do with the calibre of the rifle the cockie has aimed at you

I didn,t start the gun thing

[Fat_Chilli]

#This is Australia, not England, no Lords and peasants here.
Boomi Boy - Not a great comparison: The public have access to the majority of farm land areas of the UK via foot (public access law), also you can camp on many farm land areas for up to three day (general rule of thumb if walking). Obviously the best thing to do is to consult with the Land owner first. This is the way I went about it when I walked across the England in 2003.

Disorderly - By asking a simple hypothetical question with regard to GC residential areas you jumped on the RESPECT!!! soap box, I grew up in the bush, surrounded by farmers, lived on a dairy farm every summer and rode with the Mountain Cattleman's Association. I also spent 12 years in the Army and am a returned serviceman, so I think it would be fair to say I have an understanding of Respect and respecting land owners. Respect is earn't not given, and the majority of cocky's have earn't my respect, through bloody hard work / toils of the land. So lay off the exclamation marks. Please #;D
It was a simple question, made in jest to the GC residential areas where the houses are 1 yard from the water, let alone 22 yards (one chain). I will explain myself better in future.
Clause: if the comments were not a reply to my question then none of the above applies.

[gunna]

Seems like we have two separate topics going. Using the actual river - or people camping/trashing the bank. I am a bit with Boomi on the use of it. I remeber one of the first Leyland books about taking a tinny the length of the Darling. A recent TV show did a similar thing on one of the rivers. It would be sad if we couldn't jump in a boat and travel/fish wherever we wanted - which is what Boomi is saying.

[Boomi_Boy]

[quote] #This is Australia, not England, no Lords and peasants here.
Boomi Boy - Not a great comparison: The public have access to the majority of farm land areas of the UK via foot (public access law), also you can camp on many farm land areas for up to three day (general rule of thumb if walking). Obviously the best thing to do is to consult with the Land owner first. This is the way I went about it when I walked across the England in 2003.

/quote]

This may be unintentional, but misleading all the same, many waterways in England have fishing restraints tied to land title, that is fact. We function under diff laws, there are no hereditary rights to title or aspect in aust that I am aware of. The innocent humble aussie has the right to fish OUR rivers and streams in most instances, regardless of the ownership of surrounding land, if he stays within the legal boundaries. He cannot access through private property, but if he gains access from a road crossing, or such, and stays within the legal boundaries, he can traverse the river with impunity, as long as he breatches no other legislation.

[Big_unit]

A sad tale Trev, but no reason to point a gun at me, armed with a loomis, shitmano, kodak and 6 spinnerbaits, fishin in OUR river.Especially if I have waded 6kms inthe river, legally, to be there!!

cheers


WTF are you off ya friggen head ya bloody fool, no where at all can I find anything where anyone has said they will / have or going too point a gun at you.

[mylestom]

No what he is saying is that is rites are the most important thing to him.

It is a two way street, if you had your cattle spooked, stampeded by some idiot tearing up a river, or you heard someone on your property of its boundaries you would be suspicious.

Just like someone walking along you fence and staring in.

The correct and courteous approach should be taken on all occassions.

Respect for your rites only comes with respect for the rites of others. There is no exclusion.

A lot of these so called cockies have fought and have had family die for these rites that you demand.

Question do you have liablity insurance to cover any damage that you might incur while being on someone else property, or damage caused to their property by your individual rites.

A lot of farmers have paid through the years in investment, blood sweat and tears and some idiot coming up the river spooking livestock, being drought affect cattle or other livestock would take a dim view.

Legality works both ways, so does respect.

Obviously you are not a landholder and believe in your case.

Good luck and if other landholders read your discussion, am sure your approval for access to properties would not be forthcoming in the majority of cases.

Good luck with you fishing.


Merry Christmas


Trev

[Big_unit]

Pinhead is NOT a Farmer and certainly doesnt speak on my behalf or Trevs I would say.

[disorderly]

#Think maybe there has been some misinterpretation along the thread.
#Thinking that Pinhead was making a joke about the rifle.Ha Ha.
# Fat Chilli,my comments were not directed at you in any form,just simply trying to get the message across that taking things to the letter of the law is not always the be all and end all,that respect for our fellow man should be at the forefront of our actions.

# #Cheers Scott

# Please correct me if I'm wrong,but I was under the impression that the creek bed on some smaller creeks and tributaries belongs to the owner of the freehold land.Just not the water in it.

[finga64]

# Please correct me if I'm wrong,but I was under the impression that the creek bed on some smaller creeks and tributaries belongs to the owner of the freehold land.Just not the water in it.
If I remeber from my uni days I think it applies to just named water courses.
I'll ask a surveyer mate tomorrow if I remember.

[Boomi_Boy]

Quote
Question do you have liablity insurance to cover any damage that you might incur while being on someone else property, or damage caused to their property by your individual rites. unqoute

whole point, I am not on HIS property, I am in our river

hello!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"A lot of these so called cockies have fought and have had family die for these rites that you demand."

So did mine!!!!!

My father owns acreage on the Macquarie, I am in danger of snagging my lures on traps, crosslines, hidden setlines, as soon as I legally attempt to fish up or downstream of his boundries!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hello!!!!!!!!!!

[Boomi_Boy]

"Thinking that Pinhead was making a joke about the rifle.Ha Ha. "

No joke, its been tried on me, unsuccessfully, don,t tar everyone with the same brush, there are gud and bad inall walks of life, including landowners.

cheers

[Fat_Chilli]

Disorderly - fair call.

[Jeremy87]

Hey james what are the chances of getting access to your property ;D

It works both ways aswell though guys. i recently had the valve cut off my car tyre parked on the side of the road while canoeing. i had put in at a spot where i had the land owners permission to access. I'm assuming that the neighbours thought that i was tresspassing and thought that they'd teach me a lesson (was driving a different car to what i normally do)

Not the same as having a paddock trashed but rude none the less.

So what was the final verdict is it 22 or 33 yards and is it from high water mark or the current water level? Also to those farmers out there if someone was seeking permission how would this best be done. Letter in a post box etc.

[Matthias]

I have just finished reading this thread and Was quite surprised.

Feral's post on page 1 would be the best way to approach this subject, simple as that.

If I found someone fishing my folks property without asking it would be interesting......

Haven't you guys seen deliverence??? km from knowwhere in unknown territory and your trying to make demands??? Most farmers are easy going but if you come across the guy I saw at the back of GC then I wish you goodluck! ;D ;D ;D

Many people believe that because you have a right to do something everyone will support you... not everyone sees the law in black and white so it is def best to ASK FIRST!

Pete.

[banshee]

It would appear that the distances I was told (1 chain) are either an average or a minimum,after looking into it I've found that it is worked out by a formula that takes into account the creek depth,width and hight/grade of the banks,the definition states "generally not more than 100 metres".

[disorderly]

#Sounds like as well as your fishing gear you might have to take along a tape measure,calculator,altimeter and maybe a protractor to work out the formula.
#Better still,just ask for permission,if its denied go ask somewhere else(unless you want to wade 7km through the stream to get there,hey Boomi Boy)

# cheers Scott

[banshee]

"If I foundsomeone fishing my folks property without asking it would be interesting.......Haven't you guys seen deliverence"


Ah ha ha Pete you bloody redneck hillbilly,you've got me bluffed........definately don't want any one to make me "squeel like a pig" LOL.

[Boomi_Boy]

Mathias said
"If I found someone fishing my folks property without asking it would be interesting...... "

The point that appears to be iluding you is you own the property, not the river. If you intend to harass a person who is engaged in a legal activity and have arrived in a position on the river (legally) where your folks own the adjacent land, it is you/your parents who are breaking the law. I don,t own the road in front of my house, and the landowners, in most circumstances, don,t own the river, or the fish.

cheers

[Big_unit]

Mathias said
"If I found someone fishing my folks property without asking it would be interesting...... "

The point that appears to be iluding you is you own the property, not the river. If you intend to harass a person who is engaged in a legal activity and have arrived in a position on the river (legally) where your folks own the adjacent land, it is you/your parents who are breaking the law. I don,t own the road in front of my house, and the landowners, in most circumstances, don,t own the river, or the fish.

cheers


Open your eyes and stop ya hands flailing about needlessly.

Mathias and most of the rest of us are talking about getting to the river through someone's property. The point is illuding you and you alone. We all know if your on / in the river your fine but if your on private property without prior consent and permission your not fine and infact should not be there.

Stop crapping on with ya internet hero crap and listen or rather read what is being written, not what you want to read so you can turn it into a fight.

The original question is - Legality of river access ?

Its a fact that you can not move through a property without prior consent from the landholder / manager to access any waterway or anything for that matter.

[PinHead]

I reckon it all has to do with the calibre of the rifle the cockie has aimed at you

I didn,t start the gun thing


lighten up boomi..it was a joke.

Used to visit the rellies on their farms..there was always gun racks in the back of the cabins of the utes..only reason they were there...for pigs and very ill or lame stock.

[theoldlegend]

I went back to B F A's original question because I'd sort of lost the plot with all these side issues creeping in, and I think in relation to one part of his question, it's pretty straight forward: seek permission from the land owner first, and you will be either granted or denied access to the water.

It's the land owner's call, whether it be free hold or lease hold land, defy his/her wishes and you could be charged with tresspass. >:(

As to the second part of his question, surely the DPI & F mob should have some definition set out that covers this dilemma. I recall when I was working, our Department used to refer to what was called the "bed and banks" of a stream, but nobody really knew precisely where a bank finished. This was in relation to sand and gravel extraction.

I'll try and find out tonight at the Forestry Dept Christmas function. Also, as long as I don't get too tired and emotional too quickly, I want to find out why an engineer's chain is 33 yards and a surveyor's chain is 22 yards. Just imagine, if an engineer had measured out the very first cricket pitch instead of a surveyor, all the pitches would be 50% longer than what they are now.

Will keep you all posted.


TOL

[Matthias]

;D ;D

Pat, they like em clean shaven out Cudgera way. :-X :-X So you got nothin ta worry about. ;)

Pete.

[finga64]

I have rights to be able to drive down the street at 60km/h or down the highway at 100km/h or whatever the speed limit is.
Do I always drive at those speeds just because I have a right too??

[Feral]

I have rights to be able to drive down the street at 60km/h or down the highway at 100km/h or whatever the speed limit is.
Do I always drive at those speeds just because I have a right too??


Well that depends Finga, got an akubra or bowls hat on the rear parcel shelf?

[B.F.A.]

thanks for all your info fellas, So out of all this i get the gist that if i do not tresspass on anyones land, i am doing nothing wrong

????

matt

[Big_unit]

thanks for all your info fellas, So out of all this i get the gist that if i do not tresspass on anyones land, i am doing nothing wrong

????

matt


Yes

[stokesy_86]

to furthur on from what matt has asked..i know the land he is talking about, to give some background...this landwas pine rivers shire council land until about 2 years ago, and now the spot to fish at... there is a gate, with a hand written sign which states "please do not enter, this land is leased from the pine rivers shire council for weed control, this gate remains locked to stop the cattle going out onto the highway", so to be fair we did not think by jumping this fence and fishing we were doing anything wrong, as the fence i assumed was merley there to keep the cattle in...keep in mind also that people have enjoyed fishing here for over 10 years and now because this famrer leased the land he wants to stop us from using this spot....he recnetly errected a barb wire fence a couple metres back from the high water mark, so basically if u jump his fence your in his property then under the barb wire fence and your at the waters edge, so i am now no longer on his property? because we are able to walk around his fence line and climb through bush owned by the counil which leads to the spot i assume i am not on his property at all? so this is what we now do , however the farmer still comes down on his tractor and yells at us to leave and threatens to call the police, seeing now that we are not on his property which is what i gather seeing he has errected the barb wire fence and now has a fence line, surley we can stop looking at it from the famrers point of view and from the fishos point of view as to were we dont need to be harrased by farmers while were fishing and do nothign wrong, if my thought on the fact seeign he errected a new fence meaning im no longer on his property are wrong ill happily retract this statement. YOu have also raised the issue of speaking to the farmer,however he dosnt have a house on this land, and when he comes down his exact words everytime are:cant you ****** read, and when we try to have a chat with him to work something out, he says ok the cops can sort this out, what are we to do?

BTW when he tells us he is callign the police, we say go ahead and funnily enough they have never turned up....now that u have some background on htis situation just wondering if the farmers who have posted on this topic, think we or the farmer is the unreasonable one here?

[PinHead]

stokesy....do you know the boundaries of the area he has leased ? A fence does not necessarily define the boundaries.

[Fitzy]

stokesy....do you know the boundaries of the area he has leased ? A fence does not necessarily define the boundaries.
And if in fact the leasee has put the fence outside his boundary he may be in trouble if someone is injured on it.

I once had a bankside argument with a property owner who had put a barbed wire fence across a river. It was very dangerous so I cut the wire & re-attached it to the first post either side.
When confronted by the owner he threatened to call the police, I said "dont bother I'll do it & after we're done on this topic we'll call the EPA about your cattle up to their guts in the river". After 20 minutes on my mobile phone to the local police station this gentleman appologised & invited me to his house for tea & biccies. I get along with him just fine now & he keeps his cattle out of the river except for one location for the cattle to drink at.

I have to say that this landowner was as pig headed as I was about who was right & wrong. It should never need to come to this. IMHO our Govt Agencies need to clarify the rights of access to waterways.

The NSW govt are currently undertaking a survey for just this reason. WE can all participate by completing the on-line survey at http://www.fisheries.nsw.gov.au/recreational/nsw-angler-acess-survey

or if you forget the address go to my website http://www.sweetwaterfishing.com.au/ & click on the link on the front page.

Cheers,

Fitzy..

[mylestom]

Well interesting topic which got a bit sidetracked.

A lot depends firstly on the type of stream and position of fences due to flooding, drought etc.
There is a lot of variables involved in how a farmer fences his stock. By all mean ring the EPA and dob in a farmer for having cattle in a stream. Don't know what they can do, cattle sometimes in hot weather like yourself like wading in the stream. If you ban the cattle then perhaps all other forms of human or other animals should be banned. Been through all this before.

Commonsense from all parties should be involved. I was upset when people came onto my property after cleary giving them permission but with conditions and everyone of those conditions were ignored. In thirteen years never gave permission again. Why, not because they destroyed fences or made one of my stud cows abort when they chased her through a fence. Purely because we advised them that they were only to take a maximum of one cod over 10lb out of the river. Fish all they like but the rest to be returned.

Result was localy publican advising me that they not only took 16 fish over that weight but tried to sell some in the local pub.

Call me a pigheaded cockie, but we are there on a daily basis trying to look after the environment. Not all farmer are dickheads as some people are trying to paint.

By the way my son is a Senior Environmental scientist, which was encouraged by his family since he was a young fisherman. He is still a mad keen fisherman but does his job like a farmer who likes fishing as well.

The first point to think about access is to check with the local landholder, if you can't find anyone then you should contact the local authority ie Council.

This is only one ex farmer viewpoint, but this topic I believe got a bit onesided and downrite nasty. Which there is no need for.

Enjoy your fishing, but realise these people have not only the land, water, livestock and their livelyhood on the line on a daily basis. That is why they can be a bit passionate about it.

Respect works both ways, and a bit of respect goes a long way.


Merry Christmas to all and enjoy your fishing with your family over the break. :)

Catch a few and return a few for the future.


Trev