Front page of the Townsville Bulletin 7 Jan.

[Mozza]

A quick post to all you T'villeans - tune in to Hot FM - they are having an all-day chat-back session re yesterday's front page pic of the 129 dead fish carve-up.

So far, I've heard a pro cr@p on the catch-n-release guys, a charter operator bagging the pro for not getting his facts straight and the same guy bagging his fellow charter operator (the boat that bagged the fish) for not throwing some back.

The poor girl pictured called in to say that none of the pro environment/sustainability stuff spruiked by the operator in question went to print so she called in as well to clarify some stuff.

When I saw the piccie yesterday I knew there was going to be a bun-fight. I think it was 9 fish each to the guys who went on the charter. Thats too much to my mind but bearing in mind that rele's, friends etc would be sharing in the catch I guess it could be okay. My conscience usually starts to kick in at about my 3rd,4th keeper.

My main point is if 129 fish are being pulled from the same spot every couple of weeks - thats going to deplete the stocks there isn't it?

I dunno, this kind of stuff has been discussed ad-nauseum on this site.

Just another chunk of wood to throw on the us vs them fire.

[DaveSue_Fishos_Two]

Ding Ding Ding.................let round one begin!

Dave

[marlinqld]

Let's get ready to ruuuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmblllllleeeeeeee.......


Mike

[_Dan_]

All i can say is he is biting the hand that feeds him, most primary industries are now practicing sustainable business because they are forced to and have to.

That operator should be ashamed of himself. What will he do when he plunders that spot? Go and plunder another probably, and then another.

Also i would like to hear the charter owners retort, it would be good for a laugh.

Disgraceful

[Dr_Dan]

Yeah, saw the article. Thought at the time it was sure to rub some people up the wrong way.
I wasn't too sure what to think when i first read the article (first thought was damn, why can't i catch that many fish!). 129 fish for the boat, yeah, that is a lot of fish, but when you look at it being only 9 fish each, is it really that many? the piccie doesn't show it very clearly, but in the original article you can see that a number of the 129 fish are what appear to be fairly small trickies. Can easily see how they can catch that many, those little buggers can be a pain in the backside sometimes. some of those fish are barely enough for a decent feed for one person. So as long as the fish aren't going to waste, is there really anythign wrong with taking home a feed? When you look at charters, often people come home with barely a feed, but they still come back because there is always a chance that they can catch a decent catch like the above mentioned. If the charter operator had any brains, he would not have taken that kind of number of fish from one area, and been happy to protect his livelyhood. i know a number of times that i've been out on a charter from Cairns, the skipper would get a bit of a bag from one area, and move on to the next. There has been charters where we have come back with similar catch, and that was moving from one area to the next. Only ever really stayed in one area for half hour or so. If the operator moved around, and still managed such a bag, obviously the reef isn't in as bad a shape as what some people like to believe?
I personally normally only fish for fun, but on the odd occasion that i do get out and get some decent fish, i'm always more than happy to take what i'm entitled to, as long as it's legal and tastes alright, i'll always try to take a feed home, even tho i don't usually eat fish, plenty of rellies and friends etc that are more than happy to help eat them.

I'm sure there are going to be a few different opinions on here, would be interesting to see what others think.

[Mozza]

Guys,

SeaFM (100.7) not HotFM (Sorry about that)

Mozza

[thehoodedwarriors]

Hey guys,

Havent read the article as in Brisbane but when you read what was in it... asking a dumb question I know but isnlt there limits for commercial operators in relation to fish taken? We went on a charter from Redcliffe and we were limited to what we could take. Maybe the charter operator we were with was just a prick I don't know.

Regards
Nichole THW

[Dr_Dan]

I'm pretty sure there are bag limits for each species, with a total bag limit of 30 fish per person from memory (been way too long since i've looked at bag limits etc) ? Not sure if there is a "Boat limit" for charter boats.

[Mozza]

Funnily enough I'm going out with the second fishing guide next Tues for a new moon fingermark session.

Dr Dan, I'm inclined to agree with you - I doubt it was from one spot and it sounded like the guide went to some effort to convince his tourists of his commitment to the environment etc.

It appeared from what the woman pictured said on the radio that the newspaper report only printed the sensationalist stuff (typically). "a picture paints a thousand words" in this case is true.

Probably explains why you don't see articles like that much in the papers - guides have had their fingers burnt thinking a newspaper article may provide extra avertising.

I've gotta give you some of the info the pro (bagged the catch and release guys) said: he was saying:

If you catch a fish, what the point of throwing it back? It's just going to die anyway - the first Noah that happens along has a free feed from a half-dead fish.

Like most of you, I have fought a bigger fish and brought it in and kept it because I could see little chance of it surviving the trip back to the bottom. I have spent up to 15-20min re-oxygenating stuffed big barra and felt reasonably confident of their survival. I've caught small barra and cod, released them, only to have re-caught the same a couple of casts later.

Like one bloke said, its not the fact your caught them, its the species and the time spent fighting them. Spaniards probably don't stand much chance once you get 'em in. Apparently the big boys use hefty line on marlin so they can get them in quick, tag then release. I don't know if that true for all operators.

What about fishing comps? Going for bigger fish on 2-'4kg line will really knock a fish.

What are the opinions out there? Do some of have a rule of thumb depending on species? Does poking a hole in the swim bladder really work?

Mozza

[For_Steve]

Mmmm, this is truly a discussion of much debate.

Personally, I prefer to catch and release but is this just going out to torture an animal for my own enjoyment???

However, if I catch one of my favourite table fish (spanish mackerel, red emperor, red throat emperor and whiting) I will regularly keep some for dinner. But then, if these fish are big I'll release them. Due to the fight, are these larger fish more likely to die once released??? I've heard of studies done on a number of species including flathead and snapper and the survival rates are very good. I believe you can find details of these studies on the net.

I tend to agree with Mozza, that the harder and longer the fight, the greater chance the fish won't survive. So most the hard fighting fish like spaniards, queenfish, trevally are likely to die and therefore I'm simply torturing them for my own enjoyment.

Am I putting too much thought into this? My head hurts! Don't get me wrong, I love fishing but I think being aware of the consequences is important as well.

Cheers, Brad.

[Dr_Dan]

Mozza.

I'm pretty sure pulling most fish up from that kind of depth is going to mean that they are going to be pretty knocked around. Small fish, because you bring them up too quickly to adjust their swim bladder, large fish, because they are going to be buggered! In a way I agree with what the guide has said about "why catch and release". When fishing the deeper reefs, i think it would have been more irresponsible of the guide to say "that's enough fish for a feed, lets fish for the next 3hrs just catch and release". That would have been a waste of fish! Yes some of them may have made it back, but how many would have been noahed, or just not be able to swim back to their hole. I'm pretty sure most of you on here who fish the deeper reefs (at least up here int he tropics) and practice much in the way of catch and release, other than on rubbish or hearty fish. Much better to move on once you have caught enough, or if you get your bag/feed, try another approach (pelagics etc). I'm sure that charter skippers don't have the luxury of doing this. as I sad before, cna you imagine the uproar from the paying customers if a trip was cut short because in the skippers opinion each person had enough for one feed? A lot of these people might only get out once a year at a max! so are very keen to take a feed. Difficult one, but don't think people should be too quick to judge the "rapist" commercial/charter fishermen

Dan

[For_Steve]

Two things I think we can be sure of:
1. the media will publish whatever "facts" give the greatest impact;
2. bag and size limits are in place for a reason.

Is it correct from the info the girl in the photo later provided, that the operator made a point of explaining sustainability to his customers? Is 9 fish per person really that bad if the fish aren't going to waste? Anyone thought about what happens to the fish at the market or at seafood shops if it isn't sold? Cat food and fishfingers maybe? :)

[Nic]

I would like to hear the pro explain why -- seeing as released fish are supposedly doomed to die -- we have such an extensive tagging program in Australia. I think I read in one Suntag report that one particular red emperor was caught four times or more.

When I target reefies I'm careful not to bring them up too fast, but I suppose having a deflating syringe needle on board would be even better.

[Mozza]

What makes things like this forum so potentially useful is the access to information that we all don't have access to without some googling around or library searches for research results.

I too have heard some of the results of the research from fish-tagging and I've caught a fair number of tagged fish. I've recently heard about the infections found around tags on some species.

Research on deflating reef-caught fish is probably still in its infancy but if anyone knows of some reasonable science being carried out, let us know.

Tour operators may well get a good indication whether a group is more fishery-conscious than others and may suggest throw-back for some species after a fair number of a particular species have been caught. That has been my experience in the last charter I went on - the marks we were on were filthy with Tea-leaf trevally so we all agreed to chuck 'em back in after a dozen or so fish had been kept. They were good fighting fish and had plenty of life when we chucked them back in. With a couple of XOS gold spots and a couple of Fingermark, we were more than happy with the catch we took home.

Thanks for the comments guys.

Mozza

[seabug]

Nine fish each seems Ok with me. :) :) :)

Check out the FISHING REPORTS section of 2-3 years ago if you want to see big catches :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

Ausfish seems to be going GREEN ;) ;D

Regards
Seabug

[smee]

I have caught very large gold spot cod on the reef and have inserted a sharp thin knife about 2 inches behind the pecteral fin and wait for the air in the swim bladder to deflate then let them swim back down.my mate caught this same cod 2 wks later and found the mark from me previously and did the same again. in my mind it does work but as to how many would be taken by sharks is any ones guess as i would not like to swim to the bottom after many a trip encountering these guys.

regards smee

[Mozza]

Neither would I Smee.

This all farts in the wind for me anyway as I'm yet to get a bag limit in any species. Barra, I keep max two then throw back depending on the size of the first one. All the others well, I've never got near the mark.

I wouldn't mind bagging out on doggies or spotties sometime. It appears the local fishery in Cleveland Bay has well and truly bounced back since trawling was stopped. I've heard of guys bagging out in half/hour.

Thanks for the responses guys and 'tight lines' to you all.

Mozza

[DaveSue_Fishos_Two]

9 fish per head on a charter is bugger all. I would be extremely disappointed if I was a paying customer. Get a grip folks, these charter operators are not stupid, and remember, this sort of publicity is great for them!

Dave

[Dr_Dan]

From the Townsville BUlletin friday 12th

--------------------------------

http://townsvillebulletin.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,7034,21044681%255E15702,00.html


FAIR criticism might have been directed at this publication had the 'Perfect catch' story headlining Monday's Townsville Bulletin been as it had appeared and the accompanying story not read in its entirety.

The Bully reported a catch of 129 reef fish caught by a Melbourne hairdresser and her angling friends when they fished near Arab Reef, Thimble Shoal and a number of spots that the fishers were reluctant to name.

The vessel's skipper said the perfect weather conditions helped create one of the biggest total catches he had seen.

The facts are that the reef fish strewn over the pontoon and photographed by the Bully were caught by a number of anglers rather than just the pictured Ms Karagiannis.

The catch was below the maximum allowable limit for the anglers concerned and was taken from a charter-fishing vessel on an overnight trip.

The vessel was skippered by Les Youman who, a few years back, was regarded as no slouch as a professional fisherman.

The Bully did not chase the story but was approached by the Melbourne hairdresser who was understandably excited.

Journalist Daniel Bateman did try to contact me regarding the catch. He rang on my mobile phone last Sunday – but I was out of range.

Meanwhile, plenty of readers have chosen to 'shoot the messenger' via either TXT the EDITOR or emails to this columnist.

Reading between the lines, the charter operator was more probably the instigator of the report as the catch might have provided publicity that money just can't buy, but the journalist handled the situation appropriately.

The front page photograph might not have received as much interest had all the anglers concerned lined up with their catch.

And while initial perceptions were likely to have left readers aghast at an apparent reef fish slaughter, the sums figure the catch an acceptable and legal one.

Personally, if I'm fishing for the freezer I'm happy to keep only what I can eat in a reasonable time, but I reserve the right to catch my bag limit for a particular species.

And the 'perfect catch' might have been just that – calm weather, good tides, skipper know-how, hungry fish and angling ability rarely combining for such a haul.

----------------------

[tim_becker]

hi guys

touchy subject i bet half of us in tere situation would have taken them home 9 each dosnt look like much wen there filleted.

any way at least they caught fish me and a mate went on a charter out of darwin last june we were picked up at about 5 in the morning had one of the scariest car trips of my life down to dundee beach. the guide was a lunatic in a car. any way we made it hopped in the boat as sone as we got in the water the guide was making excuses 'oh the waters cold we mite go out to this little reef i no to see if we can get some jewies' we went to catch barra not jewies. this bloke drove the boat worse than the car open ocean 3ft swell flat out this was one of those over size barra boat they use in NT not a 40ft cruser. got out there caught nothing on his great little reef. I was very cranky by this stage we paid to catch barra and were sitting on the reef catching nothing. an hour later ok boys lets see if we can catch some barra another crazy boat trip headed up the finness river more excuses wen we got there. 5hours later still trolling the same rock bar as it was the only one in the river apparently no barra not a touch nothing sorry boys thats it were goin home now away we go 2 1/2 hours of this mad man behind the wheel dropped us off thanks very much for the $600 better luck next time. not happy no offer for another trip or anything just see ya

i will do a little reserch next time i go up and will never go with that bloke again

Tim

[Mozza]

Tim,

Let me know next time I have plenty of contacts in Darwin, some mates who only need half an excuse to take the day off to take a visitor for a fish... I have one mate who drives the hour and a half to Dundee before work to catch barra and salmon at a very specific point in the tide for an hour before driving the hour and a half back in time for a quick shower and at work by 9:00!??

I went on a charter to Bynoe to target jewies - with a half window between tides we caught 3 15 kilo jewies and a 15kg spaniard using 100pd handlines and a bucket of lead on each. I was the only one lost out - my handline got hammered by a monster that swam off at a leisurely pace. Not even putting a foot up on the railing and hanging on for dear life could turn it. It turned out to be a new handline and I was counting on wedging the reel somewhere on the boat but the line hadn't been tied onto the reel so I lost the fish and the guide, 200m of 100pd line.

Dr_Dan, thanks for the update. You're absolutely right, a photo showing more of the party would've looked more in proportion.

Mozza

[mickc]

for releasing bloated fish why not use this method used in the west.

http://www.westernangler.com.au/forum/A_release_weight_for_Samson%27s/m_125743/tm.htm

This may seem abit crude. Maybe a large snapper lead instead of a house brick woundn't
knock the paint & gelcoat around as much.

Mick

[BigE]

Nine fish each in NQ .............. must have been a short reef trip or they stopped for lunch......... any of you people throwin stones at these guys ever fished the reef in NQ! you would need to do something seriously wrong to only catch 9 fish (acceptable if your a Melb hairdress thou Well done girl) if you have any fishing skill.

pretty poor effort to hang these guys. probably a slow news day.

BigE