Slaughter of flathead

[maxwellson]

gidday from northern NSW,

Down here in Ballina our local newspaper is running a year long comp , but I would call it a year long slaughter of our breeding stock!!!! >:( >:(

The following photos extracted from the offending paper are proof of their stupidity in supporting such a benign practice..what for??? a fish for a curry or what????

Please support us in our endeavour to put a stop to this outright slaughter of our rivers breeding stock...for our children and grandchildren...future generations will not be able to fish the same waters.. they will have to look at a stuffed fish on a wall or at a picture on the internet!!!


This sort of neanderthal practice has to STOP!!!!!!!!!!


Right I'm off my soap box now!!!!

Someone else's turn to have a say!!


Any feedback welcome.


*in NSW you are allowed to keep one flathead over 70cm per day*

Cheers PROF & MAXI

[banshee]

Actualy in NSW bag limmits are an in possesion limmit,so you are allowed to have only one Flathead over 70cm on your person or at home...........you are going to be ecstatic when you see todays paper.

[squidgiepalmer]

AGREE Maxi bloody hell i'm sick of this crap but you have to teach people that it's no good for the future to kill all of our breeding stock, but while ever the Northern Star continue to promote the killing or should i say get the biggest win a prize attatude it will never change we have to bombard Russell E to stop and have pics for biggest or better still tell the b;loody Goverment to bring us into the same as QLD flathead nothing over 70cm just have a look at there flathead stocks this year they are bloody marveouls and i predict that a 1mt flathead will be caught at the Flatead Classic, but with saying that the guy in the pick did no wrong it's legal in NSW to take one over 70cm, we can onlyhope that common sence will win out
cheer squidgie

[webby]

I though when i first saw the title, you boys where out praticising on the wrong species for our next bream challenge, as you certainly need some practice ;D but allas it was not to be.
What clown though up that idea, gary you better get on that radio and do some screaming about this competiton.
regards

[banshee]

"...blody hell I'm sick of this crap but you have to teach that it's no good for the future to kill off all our breeding stock, ..."


Mate people who live in glass houses should not through stones,you can't be serious,you take the piss out of the Northern Star for promoting "Fish of the Year" but push the Evans Classic barrow in full flight at every opportunity. So it's alright to attract a thousand anglers to a place where they would not normaly be if not for the comp and target breeding fish,but it's not alright for the paper to run a comp for local anglers who were going fishing on that day regardless of any comps.

[maxwellson]

Sorry Banshee you are correct...my mistake!!!

thank you very much !!!! :-[

squidgie... yeah mate...its not good

a major attitude change is well overdue...

in the past (many years ago) i have been guilty of entering this contest and won the '' certificate of the week " on a few occassions...

age and attitude change that comes naturally(or should, one would hope ) has to be a winner for every living entity involved in our sport.

preservation of our sport should be paramount in my opinion

not paramount to the fatuss headduss people that hold the flattuss headduss that is deadduss !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D

[maxwellson]

i have no problem whatever with the angler in the photo at all.
he is fishing to nsw rules and regs ..
(great snatch by the way)
cheers maxi

[maxwellson]

if you guys hadnt noticed the fish in the last pic is in todays fishing section in the northern star ..

[Hornblower]

It is a bloody disgrace to see this. The message has gotten through up here, but my god, don't those people realise??? >:( >:( >:( >:( Actually, on second thoughts they probably wouldn't - going by the size of the heads in the photos, I would say the fish are ones who come up trumps in the brain stakes. Definitely Tweedle dumb and Tweedle dumber.

>:( >:( >:( >:(

[Feral]

It is a bloody disgrace to see this.


Sorry but they are not breaking the rules. Its their fishery, let them manage their future as they see fit.

[gogecko]

Legal or not, its not on. Those photos could have been taken at the waters edge, and then release the fish. Someone needs to educate the journalist, and then he might change his comp to a C and R photo comp.

BTW, are they the biggest lizards youve ever seen? :o Are they over the metre?

[CHRIS_aka_GWH]

if you want to change the Northern Star promoting a LEGAL practice contact its major advertisers and promise you won't be buying their product while the Star does its thing and explain the conservation basis for your concerns ...

if you want to change the LEGAL practice as the guys said you need to change legislation
- unfortunately not enough of the green lobby go diving in NSW to view flathead :-?

i've got not beef with the guys in the photos - they are no different to the guys in the reports section of these boards who proudly display anything from legal whiting to snapper.

[Poseidon]

Thankfully Qld has seen the light and changed rules to ensure this doesn't happen over here.

You could bet your money that if the QLD rules were not in force then we would have the same photos all over the Gold Coast Papers as well.

Regards Cameron.

[aussiefool]

If I remember rightly,.... A few years ago you could bring in live fish to be weighed in so it could be released but you had 10% taked off the total weight. Not sure if it is still the same though

[Scalem]

It's curious that people take fish of this size home. Why? That size lizard are not as good to eat IMOA and there's no need to take a photo outside the tackle shop to add legitimacy to your claim. Take a measure, take a photo and let it go right there where it was caught. Same goes for any fish species, but we've all done it, and taken that PB home for everyone to marvel at. I'm ashamed and admit it, but any fish bettering my PB of that species deserves to be let go in future. If we can all say to ourselves "attitudes toward preserving our fish stocks have to change, starting with ME." It would be nice to see that theme filter through our media and journalists.

Scalem

[squidgiepalmer]

Thanks Webby i really needed to be reminded that you CANETOADS beat us but round three is coming up soon and we are practicing, Banshee just because i push the Evans Head Classic does not mean i accept all rules and have been known to have a whing or two about breeding stock losses you don't know me so don't comment on my ethics, Im and mainly catch and release and i never go outside and fish in Evans Classic as a matter of fact i very rarely toss a line in i normal take people to areas to fish, so when you know me then comment all you like
cheers squidgie

[banshee]

So only those that know you can tell you your full of it?I don't think so, mate your on public record pushing the virtues of the Evans Classic with the come one come all message, so as I said,to then turn around and ridicule the Northern Star for their comp has somewhat of a taint to it and detracts from your credibility and in my opinion knowing or not knowing you has no bearing on what was writen.

[maxwellson]

banshee

this thread is not about the evans classic and really not the place to be slagging off

my apologies if this offends you but thats the way it is !!

regards Maxi

[banshee]

No offence taken.

[shayned]

All I can say is the size rules here seem to be certainly working if the availability of flathead this year is anything to go by.

[jim_farrell]

It would appear that everyone has copped a spray over this other than the blokes who set the size limits.
The only people that appear to be doing the wrong thing is fisheries, not the paper or the fishermen.
I disagree with the taking of such fish, but not long ago it was happening up here.
Jim

[mylestom]

Well there is comps in NSW where breeding flathead those over 70cm can only be entered in the Catch n Release class.
Also a limit of one fish of each species per day per angler.

That is the PUTT BENNETT FAMILY FISHING FESTIVAL at Mylestom the second weekend of January each year.

The organisers of competitions can set there own rules within the fisheries guidelines for sizes.
Just because it say that you can keep one over that size, doesn't mean you can restrict that fish to catch n release.

Yes the weightmaster at the comp weighs them and releases them. Only live surviving fish over 70cm allowed.

If you want to weigh in a smaller legal fish under 70cm that is ok.

But we give extra points for catch n release as well, plus the weight of a live fish is greater. Slowly you will change peoples thinking.

But as a thinking angler I believe we need a slot limit in NSW.

Yes I personally release all flathead over 60cm, but that is my choice.


Regards


Trev

[Feral]

Here sign up.

http://qld.greens.org.au/the-qld-greens/membership.pdf/view

[onmyown123]

Oh well looks like another species that is going to the great fish tank in the sky, don't blame me when there are none left for our grandchildren and their children. There is nothing more satisfying than letting big fish like that go, and to know that it will breed and produce more of these magnificent fish. It is working well up here in State of Origin Land ( QLD ) Just got to look around the sand flats at Urangan Pier in Hervey Bay to see what I am talking about. QUEENSLANDER!!!!!!!! #8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) ;)

[PinHead]

If the NSW Govt believes their limits etc are satisfactory for the species and no one has broken any laws..then what is the problem ?????

[manchild]

Thank you Greg

[Tropicaltrout]

Thats why there a 1000 wetbacks a month coming here theres nothing much to catch ;D ;D

[Adamy]

yeh yeh yeh ... I agree with everyone and everything ;D ;) But what about the size of that Flathead??? 6kg... thats a monster!! Check the head on the beast.... best take it out of the water - it might take a small child or a dog or something.

I remember when I was a kid they caught one that weighed something like 19lb in the Richmond river at Ballina - down near the old fish co-op at the time they were saying it was an Australian record. They had a photo of it in the paper (Nothern Star - again) - caught on the last day of a local comp and on a yabbie - or something equally as small. Now that was a fish!! I thought those days had gone forever... seems I was wrong!

Of course back in those days it was OK to take a big monster like that pull her out of the water - win a comp - get your photo in the paper and have it stuffed and mounted and put on your wall. Thank goodness times have changed!!!..... or have they??

[gunnabuild1]

awesome fish cant blame them for wanting the photo and the weight no one would believe you otherwise.Might be legal, but Future what future?

[maxwellson]

yeah gunna build,
as i said earlier, i have no problem whatever with the anglers in the pics.
they are fishing to nsw rules and regs.
it is the future that is at stake here !!
we have written to the dpi to try and find out if they are going to review the regs in the not to far distant future (for nsw)
they certainly need to !!
extremely happy that it is working in qld
some hard evidence at last that the slot limit works.

regards Maxi

[stonecold]

Given the comments in this thread so far your all going to love the fishing report in the Sunday Telegraph today. The report includes a young lady holding an 8kg lizard up for the camera (obviously dead), to collect her prize for catch of the week.
The angler is legally innocent she's caught the fish of a lifetime, the papers printed the pick and somebodys provided a new spinning reel as a prize for the catch. Neither are legally guilty of a crime. The only people that can change this are fisheries.

[mylestom]

Stonecold,

Yeah all legal, but what a bloody waste of a big breeder.

Wonder how old she was - the fish that is.


Trev

[maxwellson]

our main objective of this thread is to raise the awareness of all anglers that big breeding flathead are still being killed in substancial numbers in nsw. we are currently lobbying the said newspaper to have live weigh in of flathead only. you can currently weigh in a live one but it is not in there rule book for the comp. this we are trying to change..for the future fishery and all who like to catch these magnificent fish..

someone has to do it....
may as well be us !!!!

regards Maxi

[mylestom]

Wish u all the best Maxi

[onerabbit]

Can anyone produce a factual report on the breeding lifespan of flathead????
For a flathead to get that big, it must have spawned many times & produced many millions of eggs.
Are you sure that in their later years they are still able to produce viable eggs?

At the risk of getting my head bitten off, I wonder if the same people who would release a 6kg flathead would keep a 12kg snapper, I dont know many who wouldn't, but surely the same arguement would apply.

Not trying to stir an arguement, I just think some of the hype on this particular subject is a bit over the top.

Muzz

[maxwellson]

thanks very much mylestom

regards

[maxwellson]

hey muzz
great questions..will talk to the chilliman and see if he can come up with any facts on the "how many eggs and for how long " #part of the subject.

as to the "would you ?" part, who knows mate

regards Paul

[stonecold]

Muzz I agree if there is some factual evidence available lets have a look at it. I'm sure we'd all like to think the slot limits in Qld were made based on the most up to date scientific data available. If thats the case it should be public knowledge and who knows maybe the slot size limit system can be imroved on.
I also agree that the capture and in some cases subsiquent death of a shovel size flattie stirs the emotions of many everyday angler. I'm not sure how old a 70+cm lizard is let alone one 100+cm but are the same emotions stirred when we see anglers holding up a 6-8kg snapper etc or a 20kg jew.

[littlejim]

i think you are being a bit hard on the catchers.
How often do you catch one that size? I haven't.
But a lot of the keepers I take home and eat are females, ie, breeders.
But I have no idea whether a 10lb female is a better breeder than a 2lb female.
I also can't tell the females from the males when I catch them. So because I am that dumb I can't do what people catching crabs can, ie. put the ones with eggs back.

Catching a big fish is exciting and noteworthy, i think some people get a record for it. Getting them to put it back instead of showing it to everyone will be a bit hard unless it is definitely correct that bigger is better breeding wise.

remember we also get upset with people who keep taking the little ones too. One of my passengers got rather upset when I made him put the 'just' undersized kingies back. Only time we've ever caught any too.

[chillihead]

Still looking for details on the breeding side of things, age, egg production and so on?



Found this on DPI website


Gray, C.A, Gale, V.J, Stringfellow, S.L. and Raines, L.P., 2002. Variations in sex, length and age compositions of commercial catches of Platycephalus fuscus (Pisces: Platycephalidae) in New South Wales, Australia. Marine and Freshwater Research. 53: 1091-1100.

Non Technical Summary

Commercial landings of dusky flathead from 4 NSW estuaries were sampled for sex, length and age composition between 1995 and 1997. The data show that the commercial fishery for dusky flathead is primarily sustained by female fish aged between 2 and 4 years and the stock appears to be subject to a high total mortality, suggesting that the stock is over-exploited. Given that a large proportion of the female catch is below the presumed length at first maturity, it is recommended that: (1) the size and age of dusky flathead at first reproduction be determined; and (2) an assessment of altering the current minimum legal length restriction of 36 cm to the proposed 40 cm be made. Because of the weak relationship between length and age of dusky flathead above the minimum legal length, future sampling of catches for stock assessment purposes needs to be age-based and not based on lengths. Other cost-effective alternatives to estimate the age of dusky flathead need to be investigated such as using otolith weights and widths. Further research on dusky flathead is required to assist with stock assessments and the management of the species. Current gaps in knowledge include the rates of growth and exploitation, the species reproductive biology and stock-recruitment dynamics.



And this form the CSIRO
Variations in sex, length and age compositions of commercial catches of Platycephalus fuscus (Pisces : Platycephalidae) in New South Wales, Australia

C. A. Gray, V. J. Gale, S. L. Stringfellow and L. P. Raines

Abstract

Commercial landings of dusky flathead (Platycephalus fuscus) from four estuaries in New South Wales (NSW), Australia, were sampled for data on sex, length and age composition between February and July each year for 2–3 years between 1995 and 1997. Landings primarily contained female fish, ranging from 55% to 93% by number for different estuaries. Flathead sampled in commercial catches ranged from 30 cm to 96 cm total length (TL), but the majority were 33–50 cm TL. Fish >40 cm TL were primarily female and male fish >45 cm TL were uncommon. The length composition of catches differed between gillnets of different mesh sizes, with the average length of fish being least in the smallest allowed mesh size of 70 mm. Fish were aged by otolith interpretation and the analysis of marginal increments indicated that one opaque and one translucent growth zone was formed each year; the opaque zone being deposited in June–August (winter) and first observed in September–October (spring). Commercial landings included fish aged 2–11+ years, but fish aged 2–4+ years dominated landings in all estuaries. The total mortality of dusky flathead in each estuary was estimated by catch curve analysis and was relatively high, ranging from 0.45 to 1.64. The data indicate that dusky flathead may be heavily exploited in NSW.

[chillihead]

found this on dpi victoria seems to have a small size limit 25cm?????


DUSKY FLATHEAD
Scientific name: Platycephalus fuscus
Minimum legal size: 25cm.
Bag/possession limit: 5 (no more than 1 fish may exceed 60cm in length).
Interim arrangement until at least 17 December 2006. Contact the DPI Customer Service Centre on 136 186 for up to date information.

[littlejim]

Looks as though it is only the big ones they want us to keep, want the littler ones to go back.

But would be nice to know which is the better way to go.

At JB they are mainly Eastern Blue Spotted flathead we are catching which I take to be 'sand' flathead.

[mylestom]

Well at least its getting talked about.

Caught and release over 12 flathead greater than 60cm with the best in water measurement of 97cm. Thats right, my choice.
But remember what we did in the fifty and sixties and caught and retain the large shovels (heads like gravel shovels)

Now there is nowhere the quantity of large flathead around in our system. But doesn't mean that they are overfished, perhaps not being allowed to breed and multiply.

No not a greenie, but have fished this system for quite a few years and a few generations before have done and hopefully will do in the future.

All these things need to be discussed and this is a good forum to get others opinion.
That whats life is about listening to what is being said.
Regards Trev

[onerabbit]

Cheers Andy,

good as your info is, there seems to be no mention of when these fish fail to breed.

The problem seems to be with the taking of BIG fish, (I have never caught one either).

When Max was 11yrs old he was lucky enough to catch a 5.2kg flatty, it still stands as the biggest fish he has ever caught. How could I tell my kid that this fish has to be released.

Despite what others have said, it was boned & skinned asap & was brilliant to eat.

Muzz

[onerabbit]

pic

[chillihead]

And this from answers.com....dosen't answer much though!!!! :-/


Reproductive biology

Very little is known about the reproductive biology of the flatheads and flying gurnards. All families produce pelagic, nonadhesive eggs. Japanese researchers have shown that some flatheads (e.g., Suggrundus meerdervoortii and Cociella crocodila ) begin life as males and undergo sex reversal to become females as they grow older.

[Hornblower]

It astonishes me that some of the comments about the fact that those fellows have done nothing wrong. Yes, of course you are right, according to the law, but we have to promote a moral code as well. You would be the first to go off at someone who did this in Qld, which is breaking the law, but I would hope that you would go off for the sake of the rest of us and the fisherie stocks as well. If not, your a bloody hipocrate. As for changing the law and lobbying the Newspaper, all very good to say, but us Queenslanders have buckleys of doing that in NSW.

The greens no doubt read this website, and no doubt some of the comments have given them the ammunition they need to support further restrictions on us for the upcoming review on Moreton Bay. Now - I will put on my flak jacket and wait for the attack >:( >:( >:( >:(

[chillihead]

Yeh Muzz,

I can see your point, but the promotion of the slaughter of these breeding flathead only goes to encourage people to kill them rather than let them go.
Sure a young kid getting his biggest fish is great...but the boofheads who do it just so they can get their head in the paper and win $100 in the hope that they will be in the draw for some fishing gear..I can't understand..because if it continues there will be less and less fish to be caught..then what will they do with there fishing gear..sell it on Ebay...I don't know maybe I'm wrong, but It would be good in the years to come when Max takes his son out to catch a big flathead..at least they will still be there if we act now. IMOA


Cheers Andy

[banshee]

"..but we have to promote a moral code as well."



The fact that you can keep one and no more says to me that fisheries has looked into it and detirmened that this is sustainable, promoting your own moral code on individual fishermen would be confrontational to say the least and would more than likely end in violence,far better in my opinion to contact fisheries and get the facts,then go from there,but be prepared to fall on your sword should the facts show that you are wrong.

[snapperm8]

dunno but those flathead are some big suckers ;D

[chillihead]

Found this one also from NSW DPI


Reproductive biology of dusky flathead
Saltwater Trust Allocation: 2004-05 $64,730

Aim:
Determine size and age at maturity and timing and location of spawning of dusky flathead in NSW


Background
Dusky flathead is an important finfish species harvested by recreational and commercial fishers in NSW. Because of concerns over the long-term sustainability of the resource (see Gray et al. 2002), the minimum legal length of dusky flathead was increased from 33 to 36cm in July 2001, with a further increase to 40 cm proposed. This proposed increase in size limit was based on relatively rudimentary information concerning the size that flathead spawn. No detailed study of the reproductive biology of dusky flathead has been done. This is needed so that future decisions on the most appropriate size limit for the species can be made based on rigorous scientific knowledge. This DPI study is determining the reproductive cycle, size and age at maturity and the timing and location of spawning of dusky flathead in NSW. It will provide advice on the species life history and possible management options to maintain sustainable harvesting including suitable size limits.

[onerabbit]

But the real question Andy, was weather these really big flathead were capable of breeding , or were they too old to successfully complete their cycle?????

Muzz

[chillihead]

These are a few other extracts I have come across



Dusky flathead research
The Saltwater Trust is funding research to determine the reproductive
cycle, size and age at maturity and the timing and location of
spawning of dusky flathead in NSW. The research will inform possible
management options to maintain sustainable harvesting including
suitable size limits.

The age validation research aims to provide an ageing technique
for key recreational fish species, including sweep, tarwhine, luderick,
sand whiting, bream and dusky flathead. Information on age and
growth is essential for stock assessments of fish populations. The
study aims to answer questions such as How old is a fish at any given
size? and At what age does a fish reach the minimum legal length?


This from DAFF NSW

Life history

Both species of flathead spawn in bays and estuaries and in shallow, nearshore coastal waters, apparently in response to increasing day length and water temperature.

Dusky flathead spawn during the warmer months of September to March in northern tropical waters, November to February in Moreton Bay and January to March in New South Wales and Victoria. In New South Wales, dusky flathead spawn in the channels near estuary mouths and ripe fish have also been collected over seagrass beds in Botany Bay. There is no information on the frequency of their spawning or fecundity. There is conflicting information on whether they are protandrous sex reversers or not; ie each fish first functions as a male and then changes to a female. Dusky flathead mature as males probably in their second year and sex reversal from male to female probably takes place at 4 or 5 years of age.

Sand flathead undertake a single, brief spawning between August and October in Port Phillip Bay. There is no reproduction information from other areas.

Eggs and larvae of dusky flathead are dispersed along the coast by tide and current movements. Small juveniles less than 12 cm total length first appear in coastal bays 1–2 months after spawning (eg April in Botany Bay). Small juveniles mainly inhabit shallow mangrove and mud flats and seagrass beds.

Dusky flathead attain a maximum size of approximately 15 kg and 1.2 m total length. At 1 year old, dusky flathead in Queensland waters are about 18 cm total length. By 3 years of age they average 40 cm, and by 8 years of age average 90 cm total length. Dusky flathead mature at a larger size in warmer waters and at a smaller size in cooler waters. For example, the average total length at first sexual maturity is 46 cm (males) and 56 cm (females) in Queensland, 32 cm (male) and 38 cm (female) in Botany Bay. In southern New South Wales and Victoria the average total length at maturity (both sexes) is about 26 cm.

Sand flathead are reported to a maximum total length of 46 cm10 and weight of slightly more than 3 kg. In Victoria, sand flathead attain 10–12 cm total length after 1 year, 22–30 cm after 4 years and up to 43 cm after 9 years.Maximum age is estimated at 7 years for males and 9 years for females, and females can attain a larger maximum size than males. In Port Phillip Bay, all sand flathead are sexually mature by 22 cm total length.

Flathead are usually solitary but can form loose aggregations. Flathead sometimes move long distances. For example, a dusky flathead tagged at Fraser Island, Queensland was recaptured 230 km south after 97 days' liberty. Tagging studies in the Clarence and Richmond rivers in New South Wales indicate a northward movement, with a number of fish recaptured around Moreton Bay in southern Queensland.

[chillihead]

Don't rightly know Muzz!

But I'm looking into it, will keep you updated with progress.


Cheers Andy

[PinHead]

It astonishes me that some of the comments about the fact that those fellows have done nothing wrong. #Yes, of course you are right, according to the law, but we have to promote a moral code as well. #You would be the first to go off at someone who did this in Qld, which is breaking the law, but I would hope that you would go off for the sake of the rest of us and the fisherie stocks as well. #If not, your a bloody hipocrate. #As for changing the law and lobbying the Newspaper, all very good to say, but us Queenslanders have buckleys of doing that in NSW. #

The greens no doubt read this website, and no doubt some of the comments have given them the ammunition they need to support further restrictions on us for the upcoming review on Moreton Bay. #Now - I will put on my flak jacket and wait for the attack >:( >:( >:( >:(

and what "moral code" do you propose????
If a person has done nothing wrong by the laws in the jurisdiction they are in, then what is the problem?
Not some mythical moral code...in Qld as soon as a flattie reaches 70cm then it must go back...if we keep catching smaller ones then none will grow to that size so should we throw them all back?????
If you class someone as being hypocritical for obeying the laws of the region they are in, then I don't know what else you expect.

As for the greens, I really don't care what they read or what they write..they are full of crap no matter which way you read them.

[chillihead]

If not a moral code!

Then maybe some *COMMON SENSE* is in order as was stated by Squidgie earlier,
and
another quote from Squidgie *LIMIT YOUR CATCH..DON"T KILL YOUR LIMIT*

at least this way all of us can enjoy the future of our fishing for our kids and grandkids ...for if we don't .....what sort of legacy will we leave behind?

I know it's legal to catch fish like the one's in the photos but is it sensible????

cheers Andy

[squidgiepalmer]

in answer to the question how do we know if the big girls are still breeding ie 6gk and above i know down here that if you get on to a heap of small flathead in one area and i mean six or more fish normaly you can always pick up the big girl as well, all these little ones are i presume males and they are there for the big girl breeding ciycle, and i have seen this happen again and again little ones normaly means big one close by, and if you target the big girls treat them with care and take pic and let her go nothing better than seeing her go back, i have also seen some monsters cleaned at cleaning bays and they are full of roe so thats means to me she is still able to produce young, i might be wrong but i still will let them go no matter what, i am no greenie i hate them with vengence for what they are doing to the fishing world with their bloody lies, i will always practice catch and release fishing, but i love eating fish so i do take home a feed now and then but only what i need, but as Maxi said we have nothing against the guy who caught the fish it is legal in NSW to have one over 70cm, but it doesn't mean we like that law.
cheers squidgie

[littlejim]

Chili,

thanks for that info, haven't seen it before, and nice to know that somebody is researching the topic. We might eventually get the correct information on what to do. The present system seems to be pretty good, where you put the small ones back so that they can get to breeding size, and you can keep one big one if you want to. Looks as though all the females we catch have reached breeding age, so I still don't know if I'm doing the same damage, keeping the ones I eat, as the bods who had their piccie in the paper. I guess the huge females could hold more eggs so maybe they do lay more eggs than the smaller breeding females.

Just going on what I catch at JB and what i see other people catch, I get the impression that flathead seem to be able to breed up replace what we catch better than many other species. But of course I don't know if that is really the case.

[whykickacatalong]

Interesting thread. I am suprised that we know so little about a very popular fishing target. Maybe fisheries should be using some of our licence money and do some research. It would appear obvious to me though that if large fish are found with row in them, and large fish often attract males then they would be capable of spawning and I would assume producing more eggs as is the case with many other fish, size=numbers.

I personally dont agree with the no upper size limit rule. I also dont agree with the same sort of rule for Bass with NSW having only a 2/day in possession with no minimul size requirerments. I only hope that those rules were made by smarter people than me because I cant see how the current rules protect the flathead breeding stock.

As for the pics in the paper, yes it is legal, yes they have 5mins of glory but things must be changing slowly, you dont see flathead frames nailed to trees anymore (maybe cause you dont catch big flathead as much :'() If someone catches a decent sized flathead on my boat it is up to them if they wish to keep it, thats their choice but they might want to wait till they get back to shore to kill it cause they will need help swimming back as I wont take them ;)

[jim_farrell]

It is fairly common knowledge that the flathead changes sex therefore all the really big ones are female. They start to breed at this time of year so most big fish caught at this time of year will be a females full of roe. This is the basis for the QLD slot. Whether they can still breed or not after a certain age is irrellivent as you wouldn't be able to pick an old fertile girl from one that isn't.
Jim

[Matthias]

Flick- Last report I read stated that they were still unsure whether dusky flathead are sex changing fish or that the male dusky grows much slower and has a smaller max size.

The only way to tell if a female is past her used-by-date would be to cut her open during spawning periods and see if she is full off roe...I'm talkin about flathead too. There are fish species which do become spent post maturity but they can still produce smaller amounts of eggs. The amount of eggs a fish can produce is usually done by a weight ratio. The heavier the fish the more eggs they can produce.


Flathead seem to be a very hardy fish when it comes to C&R (done properly) It would be interesting to see if catching a female during spawning would effect the breeding cycle. With this I mean would the roe would be reabsorbed due to stress (being caught and released). There are claims that Aussie bass reabsorb if they get stressed but I haven't seen any valid info on that theory. (not sayin it isn't out there but I haven't found any.)

Pete.

[maxwellson]

more interesting facts
and more unanswered questions

thanks pete

[jim_farrell]

Interesting Pete.

Under that theory, the large ones would still be female, is that right?
Jim

[Matthias]

From memory all dusky flathead over 55-60cm studied were female.

pete.

[chillihead]

[. Dusky flathead mature as males probably in their second year and sex reversal from male to female probably takes place at 4 or 5 years of age.

Dusky flathead mature at a larger size in warmer waters and at a smaller size in cooler waters. For example, the average total length at first sexual maturity is 46 cm (males) and 56 cm (females) in Queensland, 32 cm (male) and 38 cm (female) in Botany Bay. In southern New South Wales and Victoria the average total length at maturity (both sexes) is about 26 cm.


The age at which they are no longer able to breed or be of a viable contribution to the level of fish stocks in their habitat is still under investigation.

I am endeavouring to find further research to validate this, I will keep you informed to the best of my limited abilities.

Cheers Andy

[Loco_Pez]

I reckon there should be slot & bag limits on most species. #Most times the big units aren't as good to eat & they are the breeding stock. #If you want to keep fish for a feed you probably don't need to catch 100 of them & you don't need a 20kg+ fish either. #It appears to me that mostly it's an ego thing to drag home that whopper to show everyone how good you are. #Just my opinion - don't crucify me

In regard to the small fish hanging around the big ones, that's absolutely correct. #If you have a look at the Seaway video on http://nuggetfishing.com.au/ there is video of a big female with several smaller males in attendance. #Not sure if this is only around breeding time though.

[Steve_Monckton]

G'day people, I guess in the end it is up to the individual to decide whether to keep or release a large fish. In my own opinion I would have let that flathead go mainly because they are no good to eat and it's a shame to see a fish of that age and size killed,. But having said that and having witnessed a lot of the pro fishermen decimate the Richmond river system with their netting for $$$$$ and ship off large amounts of river fish to city markets, I wonder why I let the fish go sometimes!!! We don't see a lot of it in our fish shops and you would fall of your chair if you saw the amount of large breeding fish that are shipped out of Ballina, the likes of flathead as seen in the Northern star fishing section. If the whole Richmond river was more conservation minded maybe I would practice conservation of fish stocks a lot more. Each and every one of us should enjoy our fishing freedom now while we still have some fishing rights because it won't last forever. Either fish stocks will be almost wiped out or the do gooders will have fishing rights revoked. I can see a lot of brilliance in the idea of restocking freshwater dams with Barra, Murray cod, Bass etc and keeping these waters as a sanctuary for the family fisherman,sportsman. Has anyone been paying attention to the conservation of Barramundi in the northern Territory, It's a multi million dollar tourist industry, But we don't need the money here on the North coast,Right??? This is off the track a little bit but still relates to care of fish stocks. Just my opinion people. cheers, steve.

[stonecold]

Yes Steve I must admit I think the same when I here about the pro's flogging the Richmond and the Clarence and just about every other major esturine system...at the end of the day if I choose to let them go it satisfies "my" moral code.

Cheers Mark

[chillihead]

Found this article from the NCC (Nature Conservation Council)...

It's their recommendations for sizes and bag limits.....

What does everyone think about their suggestions?

[whykickacatalong]

Found this article from the NCC (Nature Conservation Council)...

It's their recommendations for sizes and bag limits.....

What does everyone think about their suggestions?


It actually seems quite good. My veiws are,

Bass/ EP's should have a closed season in Rivers.

Eastern Cod should be a C&R species (currently total bann even to fish for them)

Flathead should be Min 40cm Max 70cm with bag of 5.

Mulloway should be min 50cm and max bag of 2 with only 1 over 1mt

[blue-mako]

I think rules and regulations on all fish should be stricter. Have you seen the size of a QLD Yellowfin Bream!? 23cms to the tip of the tail is extremely small! But still I wouldn't bother keeping Bream.

It's good to see the Max. Limit on Flathead species drop and the Min. Limit rise.

The only size limit that I think should be brought in is a minimum size on Female muddies. I know it sounds bad, I thought the same untill I read about how releasing Jennies creates an inbalance in Muddie populations. That's why the Northern Territory has a minimum legal size on Jennies as well as Bucks now.

Troy

[onerabbit]

Maybe a Queenslander could confirm this, but I thought bream north of the border were measured 23cm to the fork of the tail??? (which is still way to small to keep, I think)
Personally, I would like to see most of the minimum size limits raised.

Muzz

[Loco_Pez]

Mr Rabbit, all Qld legal lengths are to the tip of tail. I agree the bream limit is ridiculous. It shoul dbe at least 25cm.

LP

[onerabbit]

Thanks LP,

legal length in NSW is 25cm to the tip of the tail & is still way to small IMO, should be 27 at least.

Muzz

[nathan_fishing]

i got this flatty on the gold coast

[kingfisho]

All my big flatties go back for breeding , I don't get em that big though
They are a great fish good luck to the fisho but for me it's a no brainer RELEASE em especially that big WHAT A WASTE .
Cheers

[maxwellson]

good on ya kingfisho
nice fish nathan..well done
its friday tomorrow..picture in the paper day.
lets hope its not a repeat performance again. :(
by the way, the paper did not publish any of our letters or messages this week.
it has been suggested to them that they have live weigh in only for big breeding flattys ..cant see the problem as a lot of anglers already do it, and the tackle shops are willing.

hope my next post isnt a pic of another dead fish.

thanks for all the input so far everyone. great ideas and questions.
wouldnt expect anything less from the knowledge and experience that is displayed on this site..

regards Maxi

[yasplayer06]

SERIOUSLY MATE who in their right mind would keep a fish like that... That would be a significant breeding female in its population and you have just caught it and killed it... BOILS MY BLOOD

[maxwellson]

yeah mate mine too

been watching this go on for to long in my local area. we are trying but it has a long way to go im afraid. your support is most welcome mate.

regards maxi

[cdg81]

piss weak

[breakinstrain]

Not up with this forum yet but read this post and it's merits are good and then i read this??? "Mate people who live in glass houses should not through stones,you can't be serious," and the rest. Banshee individuals's attitude's do change unless you started fishing in the rex hunt kiss a fish era you probably come from a glass house too :) :) :) as most fisho's do. Good post Maxi well done

[maxwellson]

hi guys,
in fridays paper the pic was of two really small flathead..... ;D ;D ;D ;D
caught off lennox beach

had to laugh..
would like to think the message was getting through...

but a big breeder was still killed this week in "what was biggest fish killed weekly winner section..a 5.6 kg model" :( :( :(

a fish over 6 kg is leading at the moment >:( >:(

oh well..its legal..and it sucks..

regards Maxi

[chillihead]

I cant see why the NSW DPI won't follow the lead of the QLD DPI and have a limit on flathead of 40cm - 70cm and nothing over, from the pictures and stories on this web site it seems to me the flathead stocks in QLD waterways are on the rise.

It would be good to hear from the guys who fish in the Flathead Classic to get there opinion..I think the flathead classic is on again soon...It will be interesting to see how they go!!!

There has been some talk down in NSW to raise the lower limit for flathead to 40cm ....but.... I don't think they are going to budge on the upper limit of 70cm and only one over 70cm!!!

I think the bag limits are still going to be 5 fish in possession.

As soon as the NSW DPI'S attitude changes the better it will be for everyone!!

I'm still chasing info on the breeding of the flathead...bloody hard job!!


Cheers Prof.

[phatty]

the DPI should have seen this and changed it already!!

[JT]

G'day Guys,

I am on the Gold Coast Flathead Classic Committee and have been looking at the capture figures for the last couple of years since the 40 - 70cm slot limits were introduced. The size of fish caught in the Classic has been on the increase for tha past couple of years. I haven't got the figures at hand but what I'll do is post up this years results as well as the last two years to show the increase in numbers of big girls caught.

Just by looking at the posts on this forum, you can see the increase in big fish being captured this year compared with the last couple of years. Its really encouranging. Hopefully during this years Classic we'll see the first metre plus flattie captured, photographed and released.

From a personal point of view and as has been mentioned in this topic, while the guys in the pics are have done nothing legally wrong its a real shame to see those big girls destined for the dinner plate. On our boats up here a couple of us have a self imposed upper limit of 55cm for flatties we take for a feed and at the most two each.

Cheers

John

[rtranter]

NSW DPI put out a discussion paper to review rules for rec fishing in July 05 submissions in by Sept 05, our Fishing Club (Coutts Crossing Fishing Club) had a good look and agreed with 99% of sensible prposals one of which was "DUSKY FLATHEAD" Option 2: 40cm min for all pro and rec fisherpeople with a MAXIMUM legal length of 70cm and reduced rec bag limit to 5.
We didi send our submission but as yet have not heard of a result.
Our Club also changed it's weigh in rules to measurement of length so that C&R fisherpeople could still get same points as those that like to keep and eat their catch.
Regards
Rob

[Franco]

Great thread!

Hey JT Looking forward to catching up with you in the classic! #Look out for "The Jigolo's"!

And speaking of jigging .....

Not sure if we can extrapolate an increase in capture of large flatties during the classic to directly relate to changes in legal slot limits; it may not be so simple as that. (although if it was true then that's awesome!!). #Other factors for example, may be:

- #we are better at catching the big girls now as most anglers are using soft plastics to a greater degree and the techniques are improving and developing exponentially. #A lot of these big fish are coming from very shallow water where, (in the past) they possibly would have spooked due to the boat trolling over the area before the lure went past. #Maybe if more anglers were casting shallow hard bodies in these same areas before, then just as many big fish would have been caught?? Who knows? :-?

- #As with other species there may be different catch rates from year to year due to environmental and ecological changes, water temp timing, etc etc. #resulting in different breeding rates and times.

- #I'm not sure about this, but the pro's netting at different times may also have had an impact?? #There have been more pro's out recenlty in the flatty areas than we have seen in ages..... and maybe the timing of the classic is different from year to year when compared to the pro's focusing on flathead?? #Just a consideration.

There must be a huge number of other variables, but as long as we see the overall numbers increasing from year to year then who cares what it's due to??!! :D :D :D #I think it may be too early to assume (based on 2-3 years of increased capture rates in classic) that this is only due to the slot limits, as there have been many other factors & variables which may be at least partly responsible to the changing capture stats we see ..... especially the very efficient new SP fishing techniques we have!! #Only time will tell.

Good fishing to you all whatever your opinions are on this "Big Flatty" issue!! #Do what you think is right.
:) :)

I should add that my personal feeling is that our rules in QLD are spot on and common sense says that it must be making at least some contribution to the improved flatty fishing we have seen.

[JT]

Hey Franco, see you Wednesday night,

And I agree with everything you have said with regard to the other factors influencing the assumed increase in numbers of bigger Flatties due to the slot limit introduction. Lots of variables to take into account, but the slot limits must help contribute to it.

Cheers

John

[maxwellson]

very well said Franco

summed the whole sh..ty situation #(for us in nsw) #up extremely well !!!!!!
the stats on the classic WILL be good reading im sure..
in my way of thinking, if you continue to kill females the stock diminishes...RIGHT # !!!

whats the problem dpi
please dont miss the boat again !!!! :-? :-? :-?

i wish they would listen to the people on the water for a change

lots of knowledge and experience to gleen if only our ""leaders"" were more in touch...

webby..hope you read this
congrats on the new position
your a REAL mouthpiece for us ...
your appointment can only be seen as a win for our realm of enjoyment #;D ;D ;D

congrats again !!!!!
see you at nerang in nov.


regards paul

thanks for all the support shown here by you people, we didnt expect anything less. chilli head is a mate, and we got sick of the pics in the paper etc . etc. #
something needs to be done now !!
before "its too late"

biggish jew in todays paper # # ;D ;D #nice fish !!!!

[maxwellson]

yeah i know im harping on it..
but, who has a self imposed size on the killing and chewing of flattys ???
i eat a few around the 40 to 50 cm size range

yumm

none over #60... thats for sure....

regards Paul

(to much fun to kill)

need some stats people !!!!

[maxwellson]

why was this moved here ??

it is a new, but realise related thread ??

[Loco_Pez]

Hi guys,

Had a good morning out Saturday & caught a few flatties with the largest 72cm & most released. Caught a 62cm model that swalled the lure right down & was hooked in the gills & bleeding so kept this one & one just legal (42cm). When I cleaned them noticed a huge amount of roe in the bigger one & also roe in the small one. Made me feel guilty about killing them & also made me think that maybe in Qld a closed season should apply in spring - i.e. bag limit zero on flathead while the are spawning.

That's my 2 bob's worth.

[maxwellson]

yeah loco pez agree totally
we wish our stupid rule makers in NSW would wake up and apply the same rules as qld has, or something close at least !!!!


well its all bad news on the dead breeder front down here this week..
even the local local free paper had a pic this week as well as the daily today...... both big fish

i will get the chilliman to hopefully post some pics up and the details for anyone that is interested ;D ;D

regards Maxi

[jasonb]

it all comes down to the person fishin ,its usally the ones that catch all the fish and dont release any that are the wingers,,,,what happened to common sense you catch a fish take a photo then put it back ,,,,you catch half a dozen ok take one home ,,,,,its not gonna be the last time you go fishin ,,,,,,,,why not just have a bag limit that is stupid like 2 fish per person per day regardless of species, then there will be more fish left,,theres a upper and lower size limit on fresh water cod so why not do it to every fish ,,,,,and yes i come from nsw ,,,,

[chillihead]

Here's the latest fatalities from the Richmond for the last week!!!!! >:( >:(

A very sad Chilllihead! :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Sorry I only have one pic from the Advocate community newspaper!!

The other pic was from the Northern Star...which I refuse to buy!!!

But the pic was of a flatty that used to be 4.3kg = 85cm!!!!!!

Both of the anglers were from south of here and on Holidays!! seems to me the Tackle shops involved are just trying to create interest for the short term gain and not the long term prosperity of the fisheries on which they depend!!!...How could some people be so short sighted!!!! :-? :-? :-? :-? :-? :-?

[Archer]

What a waste:'( :'(
Hope they left some for me.....Im yet to get anything over 85cm's would love to crack that 100cm mark one day soon!!!
Hitting the water 5:30am on Sunday in Micks explorer trophy if anyones out and about come say hi.
Maybe its time a few letters were sent to the sponsors of the northern star "lets kill as many big fish as we can competition". Its clear the newspaper dosn't care perhaps the sponsors will!

Joe

[tunaman]

Only two flathead in my fishing life Ive caught over 70cm, and as much as Id like to have brought back to the ramp to show everyone, I just couldnt do it.
And dont they look magnificent.




signed tunaman

[Jacko_Mate]

flatties between 50 and 60 are usually best eating anyway so why not weigh the fish mesure it photo it and let it go for someone else to catch....flatties are a great fish and need to be preserved correctly for future fishing. the blood spines they have though are the worst i think we all can admit we have been done before haha it doesnt tickle


Jacko

[maxwellson]

Here's the other Flatusheadus which is deadus!!!!!! >:( >:( >:( >:(


got the paper out if a garbage bin....and that's where it belongs I reckon!!!!


Chillihead :'( :'( :'( :'(

[ronnieandbill]

Hi guys
perhaps we should all find their web site if they have one and send in a few emails.
I'd be delighted to catch a flattie like that but ashamed to have my photo taken with it for all to see.
This really gets my dander up.
More education from the tackle shops when people come up on holidays. Give them a rule book and a brochure on size and limits. That would be a start.

Cheers
Ronnie.

[banshee]

Not a good idea for people who work in tackle shops to push their ideals onto customers who fish to regs,probably cost return trade and eventualy your job.

[maxwellson]

yeah banshee i have thought at length on you concern and considered the exact outcome as you.

but in the long term wouldnt it be more beneficial for the tackle shops if the fish were there to be caught ?????

please correct me if im wrong......

the regs in my opinion in NSW are behind the times
just trying to hasten the process mate (if possible) otherwise we will fall even further behind

regards Maxi

[banshee]

It is my experience that changes in regs no mater how benificial to the fishery are nearly always met with hostility,with this in mind I don't think there is any room for personal opinion in the education of anglers from behind the counter,the move in attitude has to be forced upon us by the powers that be.I find myself biting my tongue a lot during the course of a day but unfortunately that's the way it has to be,if people feel uncomfortable they will simply go elsewhere.

[Far_Canal]

i dont know about anyone else, but with flathead, and most fish in general, i find it hard to keep any of the fish i catch. Some day i head out and land say a dozen flatties, but wont even keep one because i just simply think of it as one less fish ill be able to catch.

I havent kept a fish for years now. In saying that, when i see people go fishing and they bring home 10 legal bream (like 25cm) i get pissed off because it seems like they are taking such a number of fish..even tho they are abiding by the laws, i still hate seeing photos (alot in here) of peoples day out and theres an esky full of bream.

[truck_hunter]

catch & release is the way to go :'(

[maxwellson]

banshee, its obvious you work in a tackle shop somewhere.
would not your personal opinion be one of experience ??

why in your opinion does the attitude change have to come from the powers to be ??
lets face it mate there behind the times.. as usual,
and what about the attitude that is so openly displayed here ???
the shift is already happening.....
it is only the kill and grill brigade that would be hostile..
would the shop you work in be willing to have live weigh in of flattys over a certain size only ???

waiting in earnest for your reply as you are at the coalface..so to speak..

regards Maxi

[nob]

Fishereys NSW obviousley are brain dead!!! And anyone who agree's with this practice is also brain dead. As stated previuosly there is no logical explanation for brining such a magnificent fish as pictured above home with the digital technologie we have today, by all means catchem but have some sort of common sense and let them go free.

absolutle disgrace!!!

nob

[maxwellson]

its probably not that there brain dead (well nearly) but they dont realise (or havent done the surveys) that peoples attitudes towards C &R are quickly changing. the only way they will know this is by publically announcing it.
makes me wonder where all our licence money is going....
there are many many people who target flattys and of course the captures as bycatch when targeting other species..
surely the flatty fishos would not be a minority..
and what about the plastic users and how big the industry is now..
would bet my bottom one that more flattys are caught now then ever before ....

the response to this thread is amazing, overwhelming in fact.
puts it well and truly in concrete that the times are a changing...

NSW #DPI needs to awake from their slumber !!!!

im very jealous of you QLD mob.. # ;D ;D ;D

we #thank you all again

regards Maxi #& #Chillihead

[chillihead]

Thanx Maxwellson!!

Couldn't have put it better!!!!

C.P.R. ( Catch, photo, release)..not KILL & GRILL!!!

We need common sense not bloody nonsense!!!

Cheers Chillihead.

[whykickacatalong]

It would be nice if tackle shops could educate but I cant see how they will do that. To educate you need to challage a persons beliefs and not many customers are wanting to go into a store and have there beliefs challanged, they tend to go to the next shop, no matter how good your intentions were and there are no privately owned stores that I know of that can afford to loose customers. Personally I cant think of a tackle store owner who is not conservation minded towards fishstock, but most still have to appeal to the wider community to stay in business.

[maxwellson]

banshees point is a must consider.
but only if, in reality, it was not legal in NSW to take a fish over a said size.........(whatever they were to come up with as being that size)
if the offending newspaper (IMO) was to implement a live weigh in only of flattys over a certain size (set by them), before it was law in NSW, they would have to be infront in my books.....
i have taken a few good flattys and weighed them live already...as do a couple of others

i asked earlier if anyone knew of live weigh in only in #"year long comps"
......in my books, it needs to be a bit more sustainable..

it can only happen in my area with the support of the tackle shops and their employees....before it is law...be nice to think it could happen.....

cheers Maxi

[Loco_Pez]

Please guys don't talk up Qld Fisheries dept too much. While we have a better arrangement for flathead, there are still lots of rules that need changing like greater length for bream (currently 23cm!) and bag limits on fish like whiting. If you listen to Nuggets fishing report podcast last week www.nuggetfishing.com.au he mentioned anglers catching 100+ whiting - now that's just wrong >:( >:( :'( :'(

[Bill_Klein]

i am 42 now but i still remember my first fish i ever caught and that was a flathead about 75cms and i was about 10 years old i think caught on a bit of prawn on a small hook , yep it must have committed suicide but that was the last big fish i ever caught
it was in the gold coast broadwater,the old man hired a boat for the day and took us kids and mum out for the day and from memory we had a great day well i know i did anyway
well know i live on the sunshine coast and still love to fish for anything i can get but i still only take what i need and release what i dont,and i know what is a breeder and what ain't, so i think education is the key here if you see someone doing the wrong thing tell them if they tell you to get lost report them simple as that folks


ok i'll get off my high horse now

[banshee]

G'day Max,for the reasons Alistair has put forward I simply cannot allienate people with what I consider to be the "right" thing to do.The shop I work in is a little different in that we don't do bait,basicly the toy side of things,lures reels rods etc, and we are slightly inland so I can't comment as to what my boss would do with regards to live weigh ins.I do know however that the veiws shared by many here are not mirrored by everyone I deal with and I would say that the majority of anglers fall into what is termed as the kill & grill brigade.I think that fisheries try to guage peoples perspective with disscusion papers etc but the majority of people just don't get to see them or otherwise couldn't be bothered with them.I think the wheels are going to turn slowly for you on this one,but as you have said attitudes are changing and I find it refreshing that the younger people I deal with share the views put foreward hear but for majority it will have to be the law that governs the way they think/act.

[JT]

G'day Guys,

Here are some figures from the Flathead Classic which just finished. All up 295 anglers caught and released 2764 flathead in 2 1/2 days of fishing. Of those fish 98 were 70cm or bigger, best went 98cm with two more caught in the 90's, 23 in the 80's and 72 in the 70's. Total length of all flathead caught was 1117 metres. Interestingly and this is only speculation, but there were around 400 more fish caught this year than last year in the 30 - 39cm slot - these fish would be around 2 years old, born around a year after the Qld 40 - 70cmm slot limit was introduced. Does this mean that more breeders in the system equals more young fish? Who can tell, it could just be the simple fact that we caught more rats this year, but I like to think its because of the new laws.

Keep fighting the good fight guys - if you can't influence the powers that be, then it is up to us as responsible fisher folk to educate those that we can and practise what we preach, one day someone might just listen.

Cheers

John

[maxwellson]

thanks very much john for the report,
thats a lot if fish in a short period of time.
400 more....is very impressive indeed.

we are waiting for the editor of said paper to return from holidays then we will bombard him with facts and figures and an invitation to read this thread.

the last thing we want is to take away peoples fun..
just make it more sustainable....for us and the generations ahead..

regards Maxi

[stonecold]

Woohoo !!!

and big round of applause for Mr John Gibson of Ballina who weighed in a 5.922kg, Lizzard this week for the Northern Star fish of the week. Whats so great about that? John weighed the fish in live. Its still not the best option but is far better than weighing her in dead.

[BigE]

interesting for all the jumping up and down about protecting another states flathead fishery ..... didn't seem to be that many concerned aus fishers willing to help out at election time at the booths. who knows in these modern times maybe words do count for more than actions?? suspose what-ever makes you feel warm & fuzzy guys. by the way nice catch to the guys who caught the fish.

BigE

[maxwellson]

stonecold..yeah i gave the guy a personal round of applause when i saw it....!!!! ;D ;D ;D
and a wry smile i must admit..
im sure BIG E , that a few warm and fuzzys would have been felt upon reading the good news.
and your right,,,,nice catch to the guys who caught ?? the fish(es) thousands of them :( :( :( pity they didnt get the chance to experience more than just the one......
NSWs exports a few big breeders up to moreton (naturally) from the area i live (according to DPI stats)
maybe that has something to do with the support shown by QLDers


;D ;D ;D ;D

or maybe its the majority consensus...
who knows.....

regards all Maxi

[Loco_Pez]

Mate I was there at the booths & have finally got around to joining the fishing party. Ready now for the federal election next year. All the big mouths on this site should put their whatevers where there mouth is & make some effort come election time.

LP

[bingo2]

This is not a new occurance for the Northern Star, they have been doing this since I was akid in the area back in 1978 . My old man caught a 63lb Jewie gutted and got knocked off by a guy who caught a 72lb off Ballina wall .
So I suppose it will be hard to change this with their History . In 1978 the issue probably was not thought of , but it should be valid today.
Dept of Fisheries NSW should look at it . After all you have to have a anglers liscence in NSW.
Bingo ;)

[maxwellson]

bingo, not trying to put a stop to the comp. just would like to see live weigh in only of flathead that are of breeding size.

regards Maxi

[mongy27]

this is a prime example why the laws should be changed in NSW to match QLD laws. Imagine how many babies these big girls would have but now they will have none. I hope that it didn't taste any good.

[Steve_Monckton]

I went luring for flathead in the Richmond today at the bottom of the tide and I kept all that I caught, which amounted to zip. It was unusual fishing the north creek sandflats mainly because I did not find one flathead lay mark in the sand anywhere. Where are the flathead?? I don't think I will be putting my boat in the lower Richmond too much this year!! I am going back to my Bass,Murray Cod and barra. 8-) 8-) cheers, steve.

[maxwellson]

hi rabbi
i have found them hard to find in the creek at this time of the year also. cant put the finger on why as there is normally heaps. they may be hiding in the deeper stuff who knows........

cheers Maxi

[Cobia_Kid]

hi every body,im jamie and im only 13
i havent caught many flathead befor but i think if these fellas had any respect for the fishing environment they would have taken a photo and realesed them.those kind of huge flathead and massive breeders and if people keep taking hese flatties their will be nothing left around by the time im their age.
therefore these flattie regulations should be changed for my generation,my kids generation and so on so fourth.
cheers ;)

[Archer]

Steve and Max, Look further upstream there still around dropped a 85cm+ specimen on Tuesday arvo. ;)

[jim_farrell]

Has anyone throughout this discussion put together a petition to send to government. Most points on here are warranted, but don't achieve much. How about an email address that interested parties can send to.

As far as c & r as against take, neither is right or wrong, everyone is entitled to their own point of view and shouldn't cop abuse for it. We are all fisho's. Yes some laws appear to be wrong, if you think they are, email a pollie or send a petition.

For the record, I think Qld flattie rules are good. I would hate to think a c & r guy would look down on me for keeping a couple of 50 -60 cm models for a feed.
Jim

[Steve_Monckton]

Thanks Archer, might give em a second chance. Did u see the size of the jew weighed in this weeks star. :o

[favourite_whiting]

Catch and release it to go if its under 40cm or over 80cm dusky flathead
All need is just take photo for your memories then release back into water immediately and gentlely
Happy life of fishing,
favourite_whiting ;)

[maxwellson]

my sentiments exactly fav white
look after the future for everyone and it will look after you

regards maxi


i will take this opportunity to once again thank everyone for support shown on this subject

[Nico.d.R]

well said cobia kid , I agree a photo is better than taking the fish . I love catching big flatties ( not that i catch a lot :) ) and i would like my kids to be able to keep catching them too. Most of the time we let them go sometimes we will keep 1 or 2 (40-50cm) for dinner . The big girl in the photo was released as the pic was a good enough trophy for me i didnt feel the need to take it home , show a few people , eat it and give the hundreds of eggs in her no chance of hatching . I think every fish should have a min and max limit .

nico

[Brett1907]

nico

I agree about the min/max thing. I read somewhere that some scientists are studying the effects of only a minimum limit on the overall size of future stocks. Thay reckon that by only having a minimum limit we are catching all of the fast and large growing stock. Therefore removing those genes from the breeding cycle. This could lead to consistenely reduced average sizes of fish.

Brett

[maxwellson]

87 cm richmond river released in great condition, she swam away strongly


regards Maxi

[maxwellson]

release shot

[Archer]

Nice fish mate, Thats a good bank for Flatties there got a few nice ones off there last summer. ;)

[onerabbit]

Hey Maxwellson,

It was great to meet you the other morning ( it was a bit dark),

& REALLY not trying to be a thorn in anyone's side...............

I respect the fact that you SP guys release most of your fish.

I struggle with the thought that you think an "old age" fish still is capable of fullfilling it's natural cycle, even though they roe up.
A bit like asking an "older woman" (had to be diplomatic there) to still expect to be fertile & reproduce?????????

I understand that it's possible...................

I'll just move back to the side line now & wait for the flak,

Muzz

[eatmybait]

Interesting debate...here's my 2 cents.

About 23 years ago as a teenager I used to fish Westernport Bay near Melbourne. Flathead were prolific, like plague proportions, and your bait would be engulfed as soon as it hit the bottom. We'd drift in the bay, so we weren't targeting large ones in the estuary.

Last year I bought a boat. I now fish Port Phillip Bay to target Snapper. Well the flathead are still just as prolific as they were all those years ago. In the bays there are heaps of small flatties.

I think the seals, sharks and other predators are taking far more big flatties than fishermen. These predators are the reason you don't see too many giants. The ratio of small flatties - which is annoying when targeting snapper - to big flatties is just too great.

[hooknose]

Hey OneRabbit'
Not dumping on you mate but got an 82cm Lizard up at the Pimpama about 6 weeks ago on a live mullet. I was spewing because when it came up I could see it was a really fat fish obviously fully roed up. When I was getting it off the hooks(prior to release) it threw up 2 small flathead( 14 cm approx and a mullet) it also started pissing out what looked to me to be heaps of eggs even though I was gentle with it.

Now i'm no scientist but I would say that this big flathead was definately feeding up for a successful finish to its breeding process and those eggs that were coming from the fish looked perfectly formed and healthy( she was probably liberating them when she took my live poddy). The only other fish eggs I had ever seen in the past were Barra eggs "milked" from a big female they caught in a supervised net) by researchers at our local creek in C.Q., let me tell you these eggs looked exactly the same and probably were " good as gold"

Why would a fish be feeding up etc if it was barren and dumping dead and useless eggs ?- It just doesn't make sense.

Like I said I was spewing ( I stressed it out for sure) that I even hooked it and I know in my mind that these fish surely are fertile and need to be released for sure.

ps- I got it straight back in the water and didnt even take a photo although I usually do.
Cheers !!!
8-)

[onerabbit]

Hey guys,

most of my fishing is done out at sea, I normally fish in the estuary about once a month.

My point in the debate wasn't about whether a fish should be eaten or released, more about it's ability to reproduce.

Hooknose, I have also seen large fish brimming with roe.
I have also seen very small fish fully roed as well, for the opposite reason, I doubt whether these small fish also would have produced a great deal of viable eggs either.

I may be way off track, but to me, it makes sense that the younger, more active, more horny fish, would be the mainstay of the breeding stock more than just the old pluggers (ie, 5kg+).

Just my opinion,

Muzz

[roz]

# # Hey guys,

# # most of my fishing is done out at sea, I normally fish in the estuary about once a month.

# # My point in the debate wasn't about whether a fish should be eaten or released, more about it's ability to reproduce.

# # Hooknose, I have also seen large fish brimming with roe.
# # I have also seen very small fish fully roed as well, for the opposite reason, I doubt whether these small fish also would have produced a great deal of viable eggs either.

# # I may be way off track, but to me, it makes sense that the younger, more active, more horny fish, would be the mainstay of the breeding stock more than just the old pluggers (ie, 5kg+).

# # Just my opinion,

# # Muzz



Muzz,

IMHO, I don't think it's a good idea to compar the breeding cycle of fish to those of mammals.

Another thing to consider is that larger fish eg. a 5kg flathead, has possibly reached that size because of superior genes and a strong constitution, nature would want those genes passed on to another generation of fish.

So I think a fish like the 5kg flathead, would be 'in roe' for a very good reason.

Just my thoughts.

r.

[maxwellson]

yet it happens again...

apart from this fish, this weeks winner in the stupid comp weighed in at 6.760 kgs....it took the lead.....WHO CARES !!!....
contiual removing of the large breeders will do nothing but decline the species in this system......and all systems....

just looked at fishing monthly report and found this.....

have a look at last weeks report ........also.......

http://reports.fishingmonthly.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=1458

we need some proactive action here....... in nsw......

there are some guys weighing live here and they should be commended.


regards Paul

[robyoung1]

I don't wanna stir anyone up at all (and that might be hard); but I find it amazing how much things have changed since I was a kid. In so much as attitude toward flathead as a species I mean. They were the scourge of the rivers in Bruns. when I was a kid. Some people said they liked eatin them, but they were mainly ever considered worthy to nail up on a tree somewhere, to show off against the previous one crusified there aswell.. and so on...
I remeber one season when a real good run of horse bream were being caught in the river, some blokes pondered if a poison could be developed to clear away the flathead, so they wouldn't get in the way of the real fishing.

Please don't shoot me, I'm just remembering how it was.

cheers
rob

[Squiggle]

The other side of the coin was seeing someone catch around 15 of these and alot of these were smaller than some of the bream we had been throwing back. ::)