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View Full Version : live baits - a cruel technique?



markpierce
14-01-2007, 08:24 PM
I have trouble with the idea of using live baits.

The idea of getting a live fish, putting a hook through it's back, then sending it swimming about towing a line through the water, until it is either eaten by a big fish, or drops dead from exhaustion or stress - is just a bit cruel for me.

I'm not condemning people who do it, mind you. I regularly buy bags of live beach worms, and use them live - although I do cut the heads off first. I reckon that beach worms are such simple creatures that they are less likely to experience pain or stress than , say, poddy mullet.

Any opinions?

onerabbit
14-01-2007, 08:54 PM
You may have a bit of hardening to do h-l-s, (but I can appreciate what you are saying )

it's a cruel world.

Muzz

RCG008
14-01-2007, 09:05 PM
Sort of cya point. I use my life bait and if I stop than I, like I do with all my fish , put em out of there missery quickly. That way I dont see how its any different to buying pillies or squid. Chances are all live baitfish will be eaten eventually. As we die eventually. My Boss exhausts me all day at work and sometimes I feel like a Slimey. ;D

DaveSue_Fishos_Two
14-01-2007, 09:47 PM
Do you have any problem with hooking a fish and playing and dragging it into the boat? Or throwing a cast net over bait fish and let them suffocate in a bucket?

Cheers
Dave

Wazzup01
14-01-2007, 09:48 PM
It is a cruel world that we live in. I suppose that is why everyone calls them baitfish. I am sure that your sentiments aren't shared with the spanish mackerel, tailor, cod, coral trout, sharks etc. of this world so all that we can do is ensure that we use them as humanely as we can and not waste them.

dogsbody
14-01-2007, 10:12 PM
Do you not enjoy a good steak or a chook, bacon perhaps? thats the way things go from time to time.

Dave.

sushi_fish01
15-01-2007, 07:16 AM
Your kidding me right?
if your honestly conserned about the well-being of ur livebait perhaps you should consider alternative sports :-/

Squiggle
15-01-2007, 08:45 AM
:-X :-X :-X :-X :-X ;D

fishel
15-01-2007, 10:25 AM
Well, to help allay any concerns about cruelty, I understand that fish do not experience pain, or so my son tells me, because pain is supposed to be an emotional reaction to an injury and since fish are not emotional - no pain? Anyone else know anything about this?

Eleanor

Tim_01
15-01-2007, 12:31 PM
If you dont like using live bait, use lures instead!

Tim.

Jeremy
15-01-2007, 12:58 PM
Well, to help allay any concerns about cruelty, I understand that fish do not experience pain, or so my son tells me, because pain is supposed to be an emotional reaction to an injury and since fish are not emotional - no pain? #Anyone else know anything about this?

Eleanor

This is basically correct. I spent some time researching this subject on the internet. There are conflicting views from different parties of course, but essentially fish lack the anatomical structures to process pain. They do experience nocioception, which a basic instinct to get away from harmful stimuli.

Jeremy

Cobia_Kid
15-01-2007, 01:17 PM
HARDEN UP ;D
i get your point but its a people eat fish,fish eat bait,bait eat crap off the rocks,its a cycle off nature.
It just happens

FISHERGIRL69
15-01-2007, 02:39 PM
SUSHI_FISH01 TOOK THE WORDS RIGHT OUT OF MY MOUTH, MAYBE YOU NEED TO DEFINITELY CONSIDER AN ALTERNATIVE SPORT / HOBBY IF YOU FIND IT INHUMANE TO INFLICT PAIN ON BAITFISH. I WONDERED FOR A MOMENT AND CONSIDERED THAT MAYBE YOU ARE PULLING OUR CHAINS, BUT IF IN CASE YOU ARE 100% GENUINE.... YOU TALK OF EXHAUSTION & STRESS TO A PODDY MULLET.... WHAT ABOUT THE EXHAUSTION & STRESS YOU CAUSE TO THE FISH YOU REEL IN AND ON THAT NOTE: I AM KEEN TO KNOW IF IN FACT YOU KEEP THE FISH YOU CATCH, OR RELEASE THEM BACK INTO THE WATER????? I AM REALLY REALLY STUMPED AS TO WHY YOU HAVE POSTED SUCH A QUESTION BECAUSE EVEN IF YOU USE FROZEN BAIT, THEY ALL DIE IN AN UNPLEASANT WAY IF THATS HOW YOU WANT TO LOOK AT IT. I AM NOT TRYING TO BE RUDE IF THATS HOW I AM COMING ACROSS BUT I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU LIKE FISHING :-? BUT CANNOT BRING YOURSELF TO HOOK A PODDY MULLETT.... :-? :-?

markpierce
15-01-2007, 02:51 PM
Thanks for your comments , Guys. Food for thought.

I have no problem catching a fish, killing it and eating it.

I also have no problem killing a chook and eating it. I do have a problem with eating battery chooks, that have been caged and treated cruelly for their entire lives.

I guess that its all a matter of degree

Cheers

H-L-S

yellahunter
15-01-2007, 04:06 PM
i see your point on this although i dont share the same opinion,
my suggestion is to switch to lure fishing, it can be just as productive as live bait and allows you to cover more area. besides it gives you the excuse to start a lure collection hehe.

good luck mate :)

gone_fishing
15-01-2007, 05:03 PM
youll have the do gooders on the fishing community with thoughts like that
more nature parks that no one will use

but a valid point i admit no animal deservse to suffer even if the nature of life

try think they are sacrificeing themselves as mayters for a greater good ;D

gutzy
15-01-2007, 05:07 PM
stuff em , if you were cut and sinking in the water Im sure they or their cousins would eat you.

Bender
15-01-2007, 06:56 PM
I never felt bad feeding my yellowbelly feeder fish or crays ;)

Poodroo
15-01-2007, 07:23 PM
Become yet another SP Convert.. ! Problem solved! ;)

Poodroo

Squiggle
15-01-2007, 07:39 PM
I never felt bad feeding my yellowbelly feeder fish or crays #;)

Our Bullrout likes little crays to..... ;D

markpierce
15-01-2007, 08:12 PM
Thanks again Guys and Gals

I did a Google search on the question "is it cruel to use live baits when fishing?"

Found some interesting articles, which i couldnt figure out how to attach here. But do the search if you are interested, and you will find that:

- fishing with live baits is now banned in Scotland.

- fishers have been using live KITTENS to catch giant catfish in Italian rivers!

Hey, I'm off shark fishing in the Gold Coast canals this weekend. Might take my neighbour's yapping little foxy along for company ;)

Ciao

H-L&S

cooky
15-01-2007, 09:15 PM
Fish have no pain receptors - get over it.

thehoodedwarriors
15-01-2007, 09:33 PM
Become yet another SP Convert.. ! Problem solved! ;)

Poodroo

livies and soft plastic catch great fish!!! there is a saying that I heard from my dad a long time ago... its a Dog eat Dog world and in any anglers life it seems to be a fish eat fish world... its the nature of the beast eat or be eaten!

I just learnt to cast and catch my own livies so I can't wait to get out there with some poddy mullet and give em a go. We will eat a just leagal bream (they are such babies!) or something as big a a huge cod or parrot fish/snapper/red emperor... the food chain can't chang eit just have to live with it!

tunaman
15-01-2007, 09:39 PM
Taking the next doors cat and putting it out for livebait! now thats cruel.
Its just a fish for christ sake. ;D




signed tunaman

thehoodedwarriors
15-01-2007, 09:44 PM
Taking the next doors cat and putting it out for livebait! now thats cruel.
Its just a fish for christ sake. ;D




signed tunaman

HERE HERE!

Finally a voice of reason!

tunaman
15-01-2007, 09:46 PM
LOL here,here. ;D ;D ;D




signed tunaman

Juzo
16-01-2007, 09:03 PM
I regularly buy bags of live beach worms, and use them live - although I do cut the heads off first.

Any opinions?


hey you should leave the heads on them beach worms, they're the best bit!!! ;D ;D

Deiter
17-01-2007, 07:36 PM
Fact : 99.99% of everything that swims will die a violent death. Fullstop

In saying that, i watched my 5yo neice catch a lizard and then pull it apart today, and i nearly threw up. Give me a fish and i could butterfly it straight out of the water and feel nothing but anticipation.

Damo

Sea-Dog
17-01-2007, 08:03 PM
I find it extremely difficult to believe that fish feel no pain. I reckon that's a bit of a concience soother......

Even a scallop will quiver if you attempt to shell it whilst it is still alive. They are a lot less complex an animal than a fish.

But if you feel better by thinking that fish don't feel pain - So be it.

Just do it as neatly and quickly as practical to minimise the "Negative Stimulus Reaction".

I don't like causing pain to anything much, apart from anything that has a go at me !!
e.g. Mossies, Ants, Fleas (not much of a problem if you don't own a cat or dog), Fish with bad attitude etc. etc.

But I will use live bait, and I do catch fish and other assorted beasties - that I still believe feel pain.

Drop them into an ice slurry straight away if I'm keeping it. - Almost instant unconciousness.

Then, I have no qualms about suffering.

I wonder what a bait fish feels like when it is swallowed whole and then begins being digested? <shudder>

Sea-Dog

sharky1980
21-01-2007, 12:45 PM
Hi all,
this is my first post on ausfish, may i say its a great place to come upto date with the latest gear and techniques,
comming to my point, fish eat fish, i caught a small whiting down the gold coast 2 weeks back, while playing the fish a nice flat head latched on to it and made for a great dinner, i didnt use the whiting as a bait it just happend, its the laws of nature

kingtin
21-01-2007, 03:49 PM
I find it extremely difficult to believe that fish feel no pain. I reckon that's a bit of a concience soother......


Sea-Dog

I used to have an old battle scarred Oscar named Bonavena ;D Most of it's scars didn't come from brawling with rivals but from it's habit of falling asleep on the aquarium heater. I also caught a Perch which lost it's eye when I unhooked it.........it was back on the hook again within 3 minutes::)

Further up the evolutionary scale my mate hooked a turtle up the front of the boat that had broken my line less than 5 minutes earlier......my terminal tackle was still hanging from it's mouth.

I'm convinced that fish feel no pain.

kev

marshy
21-01-2007, 04:42 PM
I must say that I do find the idea of live bait a bit cruel but i still do it.

cammac
21-01-2007, 05:20 PM
For the record i believe fish have senses and do feel pain - thats why I put them out of their misery straight away - snap them at the head. or cut their head off - from young was always told good to bleed the fish strait away anyway !. Not too hard to do this quickly and get back to the fishing is it! Some guys use a priest which suits bigger fish i think although they have got pretty hard heads

sarg
21-01-2007, 08:57 PM
Hi all, I agree I do find it cruel (and I dont need to harden up or find another pastime) its not something that happens in the natural world, but when i'm not good enough to trick a red fish with an artifical I succum to the need and use them.

Andrew

FNQCairns
21-01-2007, 09:24 PM
Many times (10s or in the hundreds)I have seen fish behaving naturally with injuries that would be to painfull for any animal with a primary nervous system to continue bothering, I am convinced they don't feel pain but are instilled to react in the flight response at a moments notice, this response is what we logicly recoginse as a response to pain but there is no biological reason why it would need to be a pain resonse. Never have I seen a fish I could onomatapia (sp?) as in pain, outside of the flight response.

In the mechanical sense, is the only time I have seen fish behaving different ie with a wound that stops a portion of their body functioning as designed.

Caught too many fish with hooks, sometimes brand new wounds and feeding happily, seen many damaged fish spearfishing acting as one with the school. Seen to many scared fish to believe if they felt pain they would not have already been prey.

When a person thinks about it there is a good reason a fish doesn't feel pain, the painfull one is the first to be eaten, the game is to survive, without pain survival is much more assured. In a life where 1 in 1000 survive to pass on their genes (the meaning of life) those that live in such a dangerous environment and feel less or no pain has the advantage over all others, this trait like all others can be handed down. Charles darwin at work.

cheers fnq

Offshore^Jack
21-01-2007, 10:04 PM
A stupid thread,but i'm offshore most days and don't have a problem killing Tuna,Snapper,Sharks ,marlin,Spaniards,Wahoo.


I suggest you take up another softer sport.

Tomsta
22-01-2007, 11:53 AM
Fishing is a Blood Sport.... making fish bleed and putting them through a little pain is Fun is it not, or atleast using them to hook up to bigger fish is.... the best bait I've used this season which has caught me many nice Snapper over 10 pound, has been fresh caught kawahi sliced in half and while they are still twitching and pumping blood, sink a hook through there head and toss it way out the back of the berley trail... who cares if a fish feels pain or not.... We are at the top of the food chain for a reason....

gilbo
22-01-2007, 12:05 PM
AS for the debate about fish feeling pain - I was always under the impression that because they have no cerebral cortex then they do not feel pain. The following link explains it a little better in that they they do suffer stress and respond to external stimuli.


http://www.amonline.net.au/FISHES/faq/pain.htm

Cheers

Shane

Kendall249
22-01-2007, 09:19 PM
Do you have any problem with hooking a fish

Cheers
Dave

Couldn't say It better myself

tunaman
22-01-2007, 11:13 PM
It would seem, that people who own fish tanks tend to feel sorry for them. Is there any truth to that?



signed tunaman

kingtin
23-01-2007, 09:52 AM
It would seem, that people who own fish tanks tend to feel sorry for them. Is there any truth to that?



signed tunaman

Quite the opposite for me. I spent 6 yrs in the aquatic trade and my experiences have convinced me that fish do not feel pain.

I have felt sorry and appalled though when receiving shipments from Singapore when half of the consignments arrived dead. The manner in which the fish and invertebrates are shipped, leaves a lot to be desired and I don't doubt that many people would be appalled if they knew the death rates. That said, I know that the only way to overcome the problems would be to ship less fish in each poly box which would lead to huge increases in prices.

One does tend to get attached to fish with "personalities" such as Oscars, Red Devils and other cichlids and I have 5 clown loach that I have had for 8 yrs now that I am "attached" to. Why these feelings don't transfer into the fishing arena (for me) I don't know, although I have demonstrated my fondness for letting big vermin go. I think the bigger the fish, the more I seem to empathise with them.............live baits, being relatively small, don't attract similar fondness from me.

kev

Yuffie
23-01-2007, 10:51 AM
I agree with you there markpierce. I am still pretty new to fishing, and feeling that way puts me off in trying to fish with live baits. :-[

I've bought a lot of SPs though, have not caught anything to show on it yet due to my poor skills. For those of you who use both, are they pretty much the same in effectiveness?

Interesting point, FNQCairns.. never thought of it that way but it made sense ::)

JB
23-01-2007, 11:10 AM
Bloody hell, SOFT ... gawd wat are ya. The next time i jam a big 6'0 hook into a yakka and think "take that and i hope ya get smashed" after its anal fin pricks me wont be the first time and certainly wont be the last!

Somebody else said it well, glass of harden up or take up chess ya pussy.

Heath
23-01-2007, 11:14 AM
Only thing cruel about using live baits is being bitten off just before the hook!

tigermullet
23-01-2007, 12:16 PM
You've got it there, Heath. That's really cruel. And it happens so often. What chance have we got - most of the fish I try to catch all have Phd's.

tunaman
23-01-2007, 01:20 PM
Yes kingtin, I know what you mean, I thought I would scan the minds of others just to see if that might be the problem.

Mate dont feel too bad about the live baits you use, nature has built them to be ready for sudden death.
They have been engineered for a fast and sometimes short brutal life in the world they live in. Nature deals out much worse.


signed tunaman

deapsea
29-01-2007, 10:02 AM
If you dont like using live bait, use lures instead!

Tim.


This is a good option. But wat eva u use ur going to catch a live fish. It gets a hook through its mouth. If the fish is going to get eaten by a tuna, for example, i'd rather the live fish have m hooks in its back. Who wouldnt?

moondancer
30-01-2007, 05:34 PM
I must say I do occasionally share your views...but somehow that dissipates real quick when something big takes the bait!! Just a part of life, our sport etc., and your opinion is valid..just not always shared (thats what opnions are for!!)

Well done for posting!

L