4 Stroke Motors

[Big_Kev]

I am in the market to buy a new boat or a good used one .
I have had a lot of people tell me be sure to get four stroke .
Better fuel economy , catch more fish and so on .
A bit of feed back on what brand would be best as far as you guys are concerned and any experiences .
I will be in the market around 50 60HP
Thanks Kev .

[Jack_Lives_Here]

Kev,

Am now a BIG fan of the 4 bangers. Recent trip to Hinchinbrook just confirmed it. I run a 455 Hornet with a Yammy 50hp. I ran 46k to the reef and 46k back with a bit in between. Conservatively 100km. Fueled up back at the ramp - used 20.83l for my trouble. One of the guys following me out has a Honda 50hp and he used 24l, which is still bloody good.
We were running an average of 80km / day while barra fishing and on last years figures on the 2 stroke, we more than halved the fuel bill - more $$$ for the gold cans ;D

[tonyp]

I have a 4.35 Hornet with a 50 yammy 4 stroke. Love it for trolling it will run on fumes.

But I like speed as well and when the hammer is down it goes through the juice. But no where near a smokey 2 stroke,unless it is the new breed of motor's of today.

[mackmauler]

The yammie has some differences over the honda which really make it better, the tiller is longer and trim tilt are much easier to get at, any 4 is better than a 2.

[bazz]

Just bought a Stacer 4.75 with a Mercury 60hp efi 4 stroke.My first two outings were 82 and 84klms over much the same course.Having nothing to do with 4strokes before I thought that I may use around 40 plus ltrs.I was surprised when it took only 19ltrs approx for each trip.Im hooked.

[DeeGee]

I have a Honda 50 on an Express Zephyr. #It's my fourth boat/motor combination, but my first 4 stroke.

Overall, I'm really happy with it. The economy is great, it's brilliant for trolling, and really quiet, especially in the lower half of the rev range.

The good things that they advertise about 4 strokes are mostly true, but there are a couple of things they tend not to mention.
One is that at full revs they are not much (if any) quieter than some modern 2 strokes, and the difference in fuel economy is not as dramatic, though it is still better than most.

However, there is no way I will go back to a 2 stroke. #The fours are so much better in many ways, and equal in most others.

Cheers # Deegee.

[clutter]

I have a 40 4stroke on the back of my Stessco RV445 Hurricane. Had a good test out at Hinchenbrook recently, excellent on the fuel and heaps of grunt.
I've got to disagree with DeeGee though. My motor is super quiet wether at idle or flat chat. My mate who has a 30 Yammy 2 stroke took it for a spin and couldn't believe how quiet it was. It is also very smoooooth when at idle, slow running or full noise. Doesn't try to kick out of your hand when trolling.
A friend has a hornet trophy 435 and is looking to upgrade to a 50 4 stroke soon. He said he is seriously looking at the Suzuki's, apparently the price is really competitive as they are trying to get back into the market at the moment.

Hope this helps. Clutter.

[clutter]

Forgot to say, mine's a Yammy.
Clutter.

[Kerry]

At WOT 2S or 4S fuel is still fuel and both love it just about the same.

Cheers, Kerry.

[clutter]

Kerry,
Please excuse my ignorance, but what is WOT?
Clutter.

[mackmauler]

Wide open throttle, still be nice if we could run like that all the time.

[aussiebasser]

I'm having a 50 4st EFI fitted to my new Hornet, and I've been thinking about this Wide Open Throttle thing. I may talk to Pete at CCPB about removing the throttle completely. I only use two speeds, one for trollin' and one for goin' home. Maybe just a switch will do me. "Fish" and "Go Home".
My brother has a 40 Honda, and I find the worst thing about it is the water pump tell tale. At trolling speeds, it makes you want to p!ss all the time. I may have to run the merc one down below water level somehow.
Ah well, only 3 weeks to go.

[jack_attack]

I have a 50 Honda on the back of a 4.3m glass run-about and it is a pearler. Fuel economy is excellent. I wouldn't swap it for any thing. It never misfires. Starts effortlessly. It's plenty quiet enough, and is excellent for trolling.

On a trip round the front of Bribie chasing tuna I used between 12-13 litres (about half a tank) for the day. A mate in his 4.2 quinnie tinnie with a 35 2 stroke used his 25 litre tank and had to stop under the bridge on the way home to swap tanks.

[Big_Kev]

Well I chased up on some prices from Yammie to Mercs and the Yammie is eating the merc for breakfast as far as price is concerned .
It is a little hard to understand why?
Surely there is a good reason for this .
I didn't want to sound to cheeky yet and ask the dealer as I am still not sure if I can go the whole hog on the four stroke as yet . but any input as to why would be appreciated .
Havent checked out the Honda prices yet , but those who have Hondas sound like they love em .
Much the same with all the four stroke owners that have replied .
Thanks regards Reel Hard #http://www.ausfish.com.au/chat/images/smilies/cwm17.gif http://www.ausfish.com.au/chat/images/smilies/cwm17.gif

[Kal]

Reel hard
Also when checkin prices of the outboards check out which ones charge more for replacement parts,eg piston ring set impellor gaskets fuel oil filter.As i have heard off a friend that some parts are so expensive its not funny.
Kal

[Big_Kev]

The Yammie 60 4 stroke has got the knod and I ordered one today .
Will have to wait for the next shipment to come in .
Thanks for all the input guys .
Regards Reel Hard

[Rosso]

BTW,

They are going to stop importing 2 strokes shortly.

So therefore if your going to buy an outboard in the future you should start looking at the 4 strokes...

Cheers

Rosso.

[Kerry]

BTW,

They are going to stop importing 2 strokes shortly.


Is that your opinion ::), your wish :D or maybe just ordinary 4S sales pitch talk :P.

So who might "They" be and obviously "they" will have provided some FACTS to back this up.

Cheers, Kerry.

[Big_Kev]

Well I would think that it could be interpreted as a sales pitch Kerry .
But at the end of the day I would like to think that we would all be aware that the days of the trusty two stroke have numbers on them .
In my opinion we would be foolish to think otherwise
Given the good response that I recieved from 4 stroke owners and the price of the motor I have bought not being that much more than the 2 stroke option .
Salemen will tell you that at WOT the 4 stroke will still be better on fuel .
That will be a matter I will have to settle when on the water .
Regards Reel Hard .

[Kerry]

Reel Hard, which ever way it goes time will tell but I doubt even the manufacturers really know which way to go either, so most are taking the 50/50 option in the meatim, just in case.

One thing being seen more these days is that most have got past the "gee wiz" stage and starting to look at more of the facts.

One watches and listens to these types of discussions with some caution these days, the future will be interesting especially with the "wow" stage now been and gone.

http://www.boatmotors.com/outboard/outboard_motor_article.html

Cheers, Kerry.

[Big_Kev]

Yes I would have to agree that the DFI two strokes seem to be up there .
But it strikes me that manufacturers have not applied this same technology
to the smaller engines ?
Perhaps I think that the cost of such an exercise would put it outside the boundries of affordability .
In this case with the 4 strokes it seems that manufacturers are using already developed engine technology and converting it to suit the application .
With the larger engines this constraint at present seems to not know which way will be next .
So Kerry it is like you say the 50/50 bet is the best option given the circumstance .
At the end of the day the people at the factory have to make what they think you wil want to buy tomorrow and when they make it convince you to buy it.
If they make the wrong thing or it is to expensive it will not sell .
So I would think that some engineers in R+D would have been passing some very lumpy objects over the last few years , and not knowing which way to turn at times .
However I am still of the opinion that with the 2 stroke having been developed to what would seem(or what I would call ) #to be the eppitomy of its basic concept , without being too integrated and complex for its own affordable practicality. #
Regards Reel Hard

[Kerry]

Reel Hard, yeah generalizations in the 2S v 4S debate are questionable and in most cases basically useless.

4S's isn't the answer to everyone's needs but certainly the answer to individual's needs depending on their requirements.

Most have come to realize that fuel consumption and noise at WOT is bugga all different.

One thing with already developed 4S engine technology is that it really wasn't developed for a marine environment and has yet to go through the stages that 2S's are at today. Requirements of running a 4S car engine v a 4S outboard are totally different especially as far as the continuous revs are concerned. One would expect that manufacturers have taken that into account but one wonders when the warnings with most 4S outboards is not to run them for long periods of time over 80% throttle. According to the manuals a long period of time is more than 5 minutes. Maybe there's some factors in the long term strength, reliability of high reving engines.

It will also be interesting to hear how people feel about 4S's when they are out of warranty and actually have to pay for repairs and overhauls especially in the more complex, higher HP engines.

I suppose we have California to thank for a lot of the hype and noticed that just recently they've uped the anti again with calalytic convertors required on all inboards within a few years. Horror of all horrors running a convertor in the engine bay of a boat :-X

One problem with that is nobody has yet invented a convertor for wet exhausts but the thinking is once the requirment is dictated then someone will have to come up with one to stay in the market.

Cheers, Kerry.

[Big_Kev]

Kerry its an interesting point that you made about not running the 4S at more than 80% for long periods .
Although this would not have an effect on my style of driving a boat as I usualy only poke along,and the motor I have will be more than enough to meet the application .

But to be conservative will not be what some people would be wanting and the market will always be there in that respsect for the user who needs a motor that will take consistant torture .
These people I guess would not be to concerned as to the fuel/noise debate as long as the power is there .

And for sure with the expected repair bills after warranty would have to cost more , as I am one who knows that the Japs love to charge for the spares . This is where the big dollars are . The only answer to that would be to keep updating the bloody thing .
Thanks for the input you have raised some points I would have not even thought of Regards Reel Hard .

[jack_attack]

It is the first time I have heard any thing about running 4 strokes at WOT at all.

I have had my Honda 50 for just over 5 years now and it has not missed a beat. All that I have had to do is change the oil and plugs. General servicing that any motor needs.

I run mine at WOT or very near to it quite often and for quite longish periods of time.

A lot of my fishing has been around the front of Bribie Island chasing the tuna or mackerel when they are on. I put in at Spinnaker Sound Marina and from the time I am in deep water the trottle is pretty much screwed on until I reach where I am going. Some times it can be 5 or 10 minutes, other times 30 or more.

My warranty is well and truly up, and touch wood, I have hardly had to spend a cent on it. I hope I haven't just jinxed myself.

On an aside note, I was out with a mate today in his boat with an oldish 2 banger. Made me glad I own a 4 stroke. Fair enough the motor had a bit of age to it, but it was smelly, temperamental and very thirsty.

I would like to go out in a boat with a decent (new) 2 stroke on it though. From what I have heard they are bloody good.

[davo]

I've got a new 60Hp Yammy. It's my first 4 stroke and after a week fishing with my father he went home and bought a 4 stroke to. I love it.

[Fishtale]

A friend of mine has a 70 four stroke on the back of his tinny and took him 2 years to get up his 10 hours for his first service. the extra $'s for fourstrike....how much prtrol would he save in 10 hours? If he borrowed the money and the interest he was paying ...would that cut out his fuel savings? Lots of things to consider.... Oh now he wants to do some skinig and the 70 four just won't pull himm out of the hole...so now hes trading for a 100 2 stroke?.... So I guess its horses for courses and you just gotta look at all the pro's and con's

[mackmauler]

Gday Fishtale, wouldn't buying a new motor 2stroke or 4stroke be a waste of money for this fella. What does he do with it to get 10 hours up in 2 years, i do that in 2 weeks ;D

[jack_attack]

Agreed, I think I would have nearly 10 hours up in 2 years just in flushing the motor after trips.

[Big_Kev]

I reckon i'll get 10 hours up just dreamin about how great it is .

[Fishtale]

Hi guys,

Yeah it don't take me long to get 10 hours either. Some people have a boat an use it and .... well you know the others! I remember when I got my new boat the weather was crap so I went to inland water storage to get some hours up chasing a few trout. Anyway tight lines and hope you all have a safe and happy X-mas and land a couple as well.

Tight Lines, Fishtale

[aussiebasser]

Unfortunately, Kerry seems to be of the generation that couldn't give a rat's about our environment, and protecting for our kids. 4 strokes cause less pollution to the waterways than 2 strokes, and always will. Those fools that Kerry refers to in California have introduced some pretty good ideas with regard to protecting the environment.
Why are merc's dearer than yammies? Good question. Have you ever upgraded you car from a carbie model to an EFI model? If you have, you may understand the performance difference.
I've read my manual a few times (Merc 50hp 4st EFI) and I'm buggered if I can find any reference to WOT. Maybe Kerry can scan the page of his 4 stroke manual so we can see it. Do you own a 4 stroke Kerry? Have you tried one?
As far as performance goes, I've fitted my merc to a 435 Hornet Trophy, and max speed at Kerry's famous WOT (Flat Out) is 62kph. The revs at this speed are 6130. Hole shot is brilliant, mid-range is great, turning is not a problem, with negligible cavitation, (yes Kerry I know it's the wrong term, but everybody uses it!)
Thanks to Hornet Heaven for setting the rig up. Some guys talk about things a lot, but some others just know what they're doing, and do it.

[BurdekinBob]

G'day fellas,
I bought a new rig Just over 12 months ago, a 475 Quinnie and 60 yammy 4 stroke. To say I'm rapt is an understatement, at all speeds, under all conditions it kills my old 4.3 with the 70 hp 2 stroke for economy and quietness.
I regularly do 80/90 miles on a reef trip and usually need about 40 litres to top it up again.
The only reason I bought a 60, and not a 75 is the transom weight limit set by Quintrex, I believe that it would handle the extra load easily, and the millenium hull definitely needs more power than other tinnies on the market.
However, having said that, most of my off-shore fishing is done two-up, and 60 is ample, the extra power would be handy for a family day out with 4/5 people on board.
I really can't fault the performance of boat or motor, and I know that I'll never go back to a 2 stroke motor.
Bob

[Big_Kev]

Thanks for the input Bob it has backed up what I already have thought .
And aussiebasser , yes I did come to the conclusion that the Merc was the more expensive way to go not only for the EFI but for a few extra cubes as well . But for my application the Yammie will be more than sufficient .
And with old carby engines giving up to twenty years or more i'm confident with it .
It is an interesting point though when chasing a sixty 4 that the only other manufacturer that deals in a 60 localy is the merc and there seems to be a hell of a lot of yammie 60s around when you start to look .
Maybe the price has influenced more than just myself .
Cheers and thanks for the responses and a VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL from Reel Hard