IMPORTANT!!! handling small boats in the rough.

[michael_Brewer]

Can anyone please help me. I am sixteen years old and I own a 13ft tinne with a 20 Mariner.
I took my mate out the other week over to Mud Is. We left Manly boat Harbour at around 5 in the morn with the winds expected to be around 10-20 kn. when we arrived there we fitted a few hours of fishing in before the wind started to pick up. We left at about ten to be safe. on the way back the wind picked up quite fast so it was pretty scary driving back to the ramp. it was almost like an arcade game or a roller coaster because my boat isn't tiller steer it has a steering wheel.

I haven't really got anyone to help teach me so I thought by bringing up this subject, this could give me and other rookie boaties a chance to here your ideas, hints, and tips on driving and handling a small boat in swell or big chop.
Anything like how to tackle a wave... head on or slicing it diagonally. The best shaped hulls for big waves. drive fast or slow etc. things like that.
any help would be greatly appreciated.
I think this is an important subject to discuss and could help provide newer anglers with important info.
please do not hesitate to write in with your views.

I look forward to how you feel towards this subject.
thanks for your help.
Michael

[POC]

Hi Michael

I used to fish Peel Island in my 4.3m Clark Abalone, often I was going out when every other boat was coming home (seems irresponsible now that I am older and wiser). I have never fished Mud but given most of the bay is shallow I hope the following helps.

In a small boat in rough seas slower is better, no point beating you, your crew and gear to death, go as slow as feels safe and comfortable even if that means getting off the plane and ploughing home. A wise man once told me that a good skipper handles his boat for his or hers passenger safety and comfort not for speed.

The best way to handle a sea depends on your hull but don’t be afraid to triangulate your way home, different hulls handle seas in their own way so find what’s best for yours, if its fighting you or pitching and rolling try another angle of attack.

Have plenty of fuel up your sleeve, I used to use approximately twice the amount of fuel heading back to Vic. Point on a rough night as I would on a good night.

Keep a good watch on the water, you may be in a protected spot and not be exposed to the wind but watch exposed water to see what it is doing.

If you think the situation is getting dangerous or you don't feel in control never delay getting life jackets on and calling for help, better to be safe than sorry!

I hope this if of some help to you but I am sure there are others in the newsgroup better qualified to offer you some advice.

All the best

POC

P.S. I was up at Lucinda in October and coming in past the sugar jetty reminded me of the paddock between Peel and Vic Point.

[blaze]

Hi all
Small boats rough sea, not a good combination. I think first and fore most is learn to read weather charts, tell some body where you are going, makesure you have all the safety requirements plus extras like eperb dont hurt. report into your local coastguard etc. dont be a dead hero, if it gets too rough put to the closest land ( might'nt get home but you will be alive) If the weather looks like getting up leave earlier in preference to later.
even doing all these things over a lifetime of boating you will still get caught sometime, slow and steady and if you keep the nose up and be aware of whats happening you will get home
Have good floatation fit to your boat
happy boating
cheers
blaze

[clutter]

I used to have a 13 foot tinnie and consider myself quite experienced in that sized boat and I definitely would not have ventured out if the winds were predicted to be up to 20 knots. Would have stuck close to home or up the rivers and esturies. Don't try to second guess the weather.
Clutter

[adrian]

I've been caught out like that too in my bayhunter best way was to head for home early or to nearest safe land tuck in behind an island and wait . or if you are out in the middle slow down and i found that if you ride the back of the wave it's not so bad . BUT Keep a good look out behind you for the one that is coming up .

Anzac

[Jeremy]

Michael,

good question. Including the obvious, my advice is:
1. check the weather forecast. If the wind if forecast to reach 20 knots, fish somewhere protected or make sure you leave well before the wind freshens. It is hard work slogging it back into even 15 knots. You are better off planning to head into the forecase wind direction when you set off, and coming back with the wind on the way home.
2. always carry a fuel reserve. The basic rule is to use 1/3 of the fuel to get there, 1/3 for the way home, and 1/3 in reserve. Better to have extra reserve in a jerry can is you are going into open water or travelling further than usual.
3. always carry all mandatory safety gear and know how to use it. If you are heading out into open water, consider also carrying a radio (or at least a mobile phone) and an EPIRB.
4. heading into rough seas, I try to accelerate through the troughs and ease off on the crests, so you don't get airborne. You will be the best judge of how best to drive your boat through experience. The only things you need to watch are comfort and safety.
5. If the waves are breaking, try to take them either directly head on, or at an angle of 10-20 degrees. Try to time your arrival the the face of the wave either before it breaks, or after it had broken. The last thing you want is to have a wave breaking over you.

I hope this helps. If in doubt don't go out. The skipper is responsible for the safety of the crew. Good fishing, but remember, the best fishing and the biggest fish aren't necessarily the furthest away.

Jeremy

[deb]

Mick,
A couple of extra's, definately take it slow, look around, if another bigger boat is near you or is coming, flag them down and ask if you can get in their wake on the way in, I have slowed down heaps of times for a tinnie to follow behind, most boaties out their fishing are a pretty friendly bunch ;)

[argonautical]

Mick
My two bob's worth. Be aware of what the tide is doing and whether there is going to be a strong tidal influence. It can work for you or against you. Coming home from Mud Is into a sou-easter and a big run-in tide creates a very steep chop on the surface of the water. Uncomfortable in a big boat, trouble in a small boat like yours and mine. The point being, if at all possible, head for home when the wind and tide are both going the same way...If in doubt, don't go out.
Argo

[Jeremy]

Hey Argo

"Coming home from Mud Is into a sou-easter and a big run-in tide creates a very steep chop on the surface of the water."

How would you be coming home from Mud into a sou-easter, unless you lived on Moreton? A sou-easter and run-in tide would be in the same direction. I would have thought that it would be the sou-easter and run out tide that would be the problem.

Jeremy

[argonautical]

Jeremy,
In broad terms, run-in tide runs north south in the bay down to about Canaipa. It does swirl around the islands and even sort of goes the wrong way in Horseshoe Bay.

OK Mud to Manly is roughly south -west so you are running across rather than into a sou-easter. Irrespective of your direction of travel, the surface of the water will chop up more if the wind and the tide are going in different directions. The bigger the tide and the stonger the wind the greater the effect. Not directly on point, but see the way an offshore wind can change slop into surf and a nor-easter just as quickly turn it back.

Fully support the view that prevention is better than cure, but those issues well covered in yours and other posts. In my current boat probably would not fish that part of the bay.

Argo

[Jeremy]

Argo,

definitely agree that wind against tide is not what we want out there. Take your point about the run in tide pushing water South in the bay. I launch from Fisherman Is. and head out through the Brisbane R to Mud Is on the few occasions I have fished there, so the run out tide at the Brisbae R mouth goes directly into a SEerly, which is the point I was making

Jeremy

[sharkbait]

No offence but if you seriously launched at manly and went to mud island in a 13ft/20hp tinny in 10 - 20 knots regardless of wind direction you are bloody crazy! for a start it must have taken you an hour to get there! you have to remember that like peel to cleveland, mud to pinkenba or manly has open water that will chop up very quickly in any sort of wind, even though on the chart its not very far. try fishing green island a few times in up to 10 knot winds to get a feel for what your boat can handle safely. I would have thought mud island would be a prospect for a boat your size only in up to 5 knots.

[aussiebasser]

The simple answer is:
If the weather report says 10 to 20 knot winds, do not venture into Moreton Bay in a 13 foot tinny. Stick to the rivers.

[Jeremy]

Sorry Sharkbait and Aussiebasser, but I think you are both being a bit conservative. The bottom line is know the capabilities of your boat and local conditions. There can be big differences in the seaworthiness of different 13' boats. You'd never get to go fishing if you only went out in forecasts of less than 10 knots. You just can't make blanket statements like that. I regularly see 12 and 13 foot tinnies up to 10 km offshore at Caloundra and Mooloolaba in reasonable conditions.

I say again to Michael, you are the best judge of the capabilities of your boat, but this knowledge does need time and experience to build up. I do agree that it is a long way from Manly to Mud, and the weather can change quickly in the bay. The suggestion of going to Green Is first is worthwhile, and then go further if you feel confident.

[aussiebasser]

No need to be sorry Jeremy. You may have mis-read the original question though.
Michael is 16 years old and new to boating. He is asking for help as a rookie. I stand by what I said. A rookie should not venture into the area of Mud Island to Manly in forecasted 20 knot winds in a 13 foot tinny. And I don't care how big that 13 foot tinny is. I almost lost a big 15 foot glass runabout between Mud Island and the river mouth. In a 13 foot tinny, I would have lost it.

[Jeremy]

Hi Aussiebasser,

I do remember that Michael said he in 16, and so probably needs a fair bit more experience in baot handling and different conditions before venturing too far, which is what I said in my posts. I think we are pretty much in agreement, just coming at it from slightly different angles.

Jeremy

[aquarius]

Sorry Jeremy theres no way id be going out on the bay in a 13FT BATH TUB when the wind was blowing 20 knots no matter how much i love fishing....just not worth the risk mate!!
Cheers Brent http://www.ausfish.com.au/chat/images/smilies/cwm24.gif

[Jeremy]

Hey Brent,

neither would I, don't worry. There is a bit of confusion here. I am talking about a typical forecast of 10 knots in the morning increasing to 20 knots in the afternoon. I believe it would be possible to fish places like Mud, Green or Peel early in the morning and come home before the wind picks up. I would never advocate going out in the bay in 20 knots.

I thought this whole topic was about what to do if you got caught out in a small boat if the wind picked up unexpectedly.

Cheers,

Jeremy

[mackmauler]

Always have some wet weather gear onboard in small boats, your endurance wil be far better when your not freezing to death in the spray.

[Araby_Dog]

my 2cents worth is to better er on the side of caution and to live to fish another day than to be one of those dickheads that make the daily paper threatening legal action against the coast guard and VMR.

[sharkbait]

Jeremy - I am a bit conservative with my boat and gear however I've been out in 25 knots and over in my boat which is a bit bigger and faster than the one in question and can honestly say I scared myself stupid. Like you I've found early mornings and nights to be the go during the crap weather we've been having. One thing I have found to be priceless is the weather section of browniescoastwatch.com, if you go to the coastal forecasts you can get up to the hour wind speeds for spots such as cape moreton, banana banks etc.

[aquarius]

Jeremy i agree with your last post....get out there early mornings when the winds are 10 knots and less and then as the wind picks up head home quick smart...I know its tempting to stay longer but theres nothing like coming home safe and dry and having that feeling of a great 4 hrs spent relaxing on the water.
Most mornings during Summer you can get in at least 4 hours fishing before the winds freshen.
Cheers Brent :)

[michael_Brewer]

hey there,
I guess this is the first post for the year...yahoo. I am stoked to have this many replies on the subject and I hope that this discussion will continue through the future.
I am always out by the crack of dawn when i'm going out boating so that I can always take advantage of the usual glass flat mornings.
I have moved house to redland bay but I still putt around green Is, all the time. I just bought myself a new 3.7 vagabond edgetracker from holts marine and I'm picking up 9.9 Johnson on sat. this is really handy because i just stick it on these little wheels and I can pull it to the bottom of the street myself. I've been going out to pannikin Island with a neighbour catching a few flatties its great.

has anyone been in an edgetracker before and got any idea what they're like in the chop/swell. please don't think I'm just some kid who wants to tackle the big stuff but i'd like to here from you. I have to say I'm quite impressed so far with its stability. I can stand on all corners of the boat no worries but ill deck it out with a floor, bait tanks,sounder etc. so this will be a great fishing boat.

sorry to rave on, anyway thanks for your inputs on your views about boating and please keep submitting replies
thanks fellas
tight lines

[mackmauler]

Michael, ive seen the results of blasting across the breakers of south passage for fun in a 4m tracker, a few years ago this was a thrill for several of us silly enough and flexible enough, was a holiday pastime. The boat is still here, and very cracked up, not good for anything other than pottering around as an oysterlease dory now, if your game to put it to the test, just remember the bucks it costs to fix, the 3.7 will be lighter than the 4, 2mm sheet was on the 4,and with only 10 horses not 30 like the 4 had, you won't have the acceleration to keep out of trouble as well, the stability was noticably better than the v bottoms ive been in.

Cheers