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bigbrian47
19-11-2003, 02:30 PM
gday all just been out bush a mate is looking at new aluminium rig i suggested he look at the poly but he said too bloody heavy is this so he"ll be fishing dam @ rivers only. hes looking around 4 metres he has'nt got computer ill relay any comments thanks brian :-/

gif
20-11-2003, 10:05 AM
Your friend started me thinking #... #I thought the polycraft was great but Maybe it is heavier.

So looked into it and tried comparing similar models at about 4m.


The table below illustrates the best comparison I could find. # I compared data from the manufacturers web site #- what are probably both great fishing boats: #Polycraft Challenger and Quintrex Hornet. # # The Quintrex is admittedly a little bigger #- so we could excuse it being heavier. #



All three boats were tiller steer models. # #And the “ bare” aluminium boat was a whole 85 kg lighter ( about 1 passenger) # But the fair comparison was to look at the Polycraft with 4 built in bins and 2 decks (not carpeted but with non slip surface) # against the 435 Hornet trophy with carpeted casting platforms and 1 live well.

In the end the fitout on the Hornet added 85 Kg # - making it exactly the same weight as the Polycraft.


Manufacturer # Polycraft # # # # # # # # #Quintrex # # # # #Quintrex
Model # # # # # Challenger 4.1 # # # #435 Hornet # # # # 435 Hornet trophy

Weight # # # # #265kg # # # # # # # # # #180kg # # # # # # # # #265kg

Includes # 4 bins, 2 decks # # # # # #Not much # # # # # # Decks, live well


So in the end there is not much in it.

If super light weight is an issue for your friend I have seen a Kevlar / fibreglass boat called a Tarpon advertised. #Expensive and small – but seems very interesting.

If your friend is also careful about not loading the boat with eskies ( and gear we never seem to use) # - then the bare but more uncomfortable tinnie is the way to go.


If he wants the comfort and convenience of bins and decks then weight is not a reason for rejecting a poly boat.

There was a very valuable post elsewhere on this site about a guy who found he had an overloaded and unsafe trailer #- because the bare weight of his boat, with lots of fittings had grown beyond its rated capacity. #


So I think the real, final weight comes down to all the extra’s we install, and carry aboard.


Gary

Randall
21-11-2003, 10:45 AM
Gary...spot on mate.

The polys however, ride smooth, are far more bouyant, easy to customize without alloy welding, dont rust, dont corrode, no electrolysis probs, dont dent,dont sratch through to bare metal, (same colour right through), are chemical compatible,(dont melt like alloy when battery acid drips on them), and the clincher.....are FAR cheaper!!!

Randall. (Poly owner...paid in ful)(

lordy
21-11-2003, 11:15 AM
The 85kgs between the bare Hornett and Poly needs to be put into perspective (both need a trailer and aren't car toppers).

70-90kg motor
30-50 kgs of fuel/tank
25kg per battery
25kg electric motor
fishing gear
an esky, with food, ice, bait

roughly 200+kgs.

380+kg bare alloy boat with gear
465+kg for poly with gear

At the end of the day the 85kgs between a bare alloy boat and a decked/binned poly boat won't matter quite so much. Add basic decks to the alloy (25-50kgs). Comes down to what your mate wants, and unless its a car topper the weight won't matter that much in the end.

gif
21-11-2003, 11:19 AM
Good point - its the total weight that counts


Randall - You're right about prices I was surpised at the difference.

I checked with 2 dealers at Springwood.

The Polycraft is $3,100 # including a choice of colours decks and bins

The Basic Hornet # is $3,550 #+ $450 for paint #= $4,000

The Hornet Trophy # is $7,033 # incl paint, decks, live well, and a $300 Sounder.


Gary

aussiebasser
21-11-2003, 01:39 PM
You could compare the Poly to a Quintrex 420 Explorer, which is a closer match, size wise. 132kg Std Hull and 200kg in Trophy lay-out. The Poly's are heavy for their size, and that is why they rate them for extra horsepower.

gif
21-11-2003, 02:08 PM
Dale

I stand corrected ! I agree the 420 is a closer comparison in size. And it does come out lighter - even with decks. I just looked at the Hornet as I saw it as the nearest competitor, and saw both in the BREAM and BASS competitions. They seemed similar in usable space

I like hiring the Polys - they seem more stable, softer etc to me. But that is my bias. We all have our own biases.

I think the Polycraft is over enginered - even the 3metre has 2 layers of 10mm thick "UV stable hexene linear low density polyethylene" ( whatever that means !) Thats got to make them heavy.

I am out of my depth technically, but I don't think I can agree that "that is why they rate them for extra horsepower". I thought horsepower rating is not just free reign but down to some calculations and Engineering estimates. I know that Adrain, the Polycraft foreman who I met at a competition, was asked about uprating the rating and he replied that the designer / owner of the company is conservative in this area.

We are getting way off topic here - but it is interesting. Does anyone know how horespower ratings are calculated?

thanks
Gary

lordy
22-11-2003, 06:55 AM
Dale is on the money.The equivalent of a polycraft 4.1 is probably a Hornet Trophy 4.0m. That has basic decks and weighs in a 205kg

HORNET TROPHY 4.0m
Length Overall: 4.00m
Length Bow-Transom: 4.00m
Beam: 1.76m
Depth 0.93m
Bottomsides: 2.0mm
Topsides: 1.6mm
Transom Shaft Length: L/S
Weight (Boat only): 205kg
Recommended: 30HP
Maximum: 40HP
Max Transom Weight: 95kg
Number of People: 4

EXPLORER TROPHY 4.2m
Length Overall: 4.26m
Length Bow-Transom: 4.21m
Beam: 1.84m
Depth 0.80m
Bottomsides: 2.0mm
Topsides: 1.6mm
Transom Shaft Length: L/S
Weight (Boat only): 200kg
Recommended: 35HP
Maximum: 40HP
Max Transom Weight: 95kg
Number of People: 4

The horsepower requirements seem close to identical to the polycrafts, Hornet 4.0 and Explorer 4.2. None of them you would want to car top, even the bare hull of Explorer 3.85 is 102kg. If you don't want the decks you can save about 70kgs in the Quintrex range.

All good boats.

Gorilla_in_Manila
22-11-2003, 08:59 AM
Hey Fellas,
All this technical stuff is fine, but I think the choice comes down to every day language.
Someone asks you: "What you doin' on the weekend?"
Aluminium boat owner says: "I'm going to chuck my tinnie in the river."
Other guy understands completely.
Poly Boat owner says: "I'm going to chuck my poly in the river."
Other guy thinks you're going to drown your parrot!
Therefore, its a tinnie for me. ;D ;D ;D
Cheers,
Jeff

lordy
22-11-2003, 06:55 PM
Hey Fellas,
All this technical stuff is fine, but I think the choice comes down to every day language.
Someone asks you: "What you doin' on the weekend?"
Aluminium boat owner says: "I'm going to chuck my tinnie in the river."
Other guy understands completely.
Jeff

Either that or he thinks you've gone tea-totalling! [smiley=drunk.gif] -------> [smiley=angel.gif]

Gorilla_in_Manila
23-11-2003, 07:34 AM
Surely no one would even think of throwing away a beer can that is not completely drained of its contents! ???
For that would be a SIN.
If there's no law against it yet, there should be! ;)

fnq_tinnie
26-11-2003, 04:40 AM
can a poly boat be repair
if you do the un thinkable put a hole in it

lordy
26-11-2003, 08:52 AM
I think so, a heat gun and a bit of the same plastic and its done.

gif
26-11-2003, 12:29 PM
I was interested in this a while ago too.

Aparently at one boat show they tried a demo - they had a sledge hammer and offered people to have a bash. I saw the photo at the conclusion of the boat show - a few surface scratches but no cracks or depression.

So they may be hard to hurt - but nothing is indestructable.

When I wrote to Polycraft, Steve Cooper sent this reply:

Gary, to stat with it is very hard to put a hole in the hull, but not impossible .
Say for arguments sake you where in a remote location camping , and you holed your boat and there was no one for miles to help you . You could simply place a knife blade or something similar into the fire heat it up and apply to hull and melt surrounding plastic back into hole .This would keep you on location and fishing. Pretty simple hey,

now when you return to the real world you grab the local pages and look under plastic repair or similar and you can arrange a bloke to come to your house and use a Poly welder to fill the hole properly. A Poly Welder looks like a hot glue gun on steroids , it uses compressed air and heat to deliver the desired colour to be pumped into the effected area .

It uses a poly rod of the same colour as boat to melt hull and coloured rod together so the marry together like a route welder does in steel fabrication .If a customer rings his local poly welder and he has problems matching the colour of the hull, all they need to do is ring me here and I will send them a piece to do the job free of charge.

Look at the consoles on the 410 and 455 side console and you will see the welds that bind them to the hull.

Regards Steve Cooper
POLYCRAFT


intersting!

Gary

ba229
26-11-2003, 02:03 PM
i saw some dredgers down here were using a poly hull. it looked like it handled very nicely and created very little wake.
i am looking for a boat and have considered poly as an option. the only thing for me is the lack of them on the 2nd hand market.

aussiebasser
26-11-2003, 02:04 PM
It's what's called Horses for Courses guys, I fish out of Randall's Wheelie bin and put up with it, he fishes out of my Hornet and puts up with it ;D
We both know that we own the best boat in the world, so it doesn't matter. A bit like the Holden/Falcon debate, but then again, Holden won the 24 hour.
HP ratings are decided upon by the manufacturer, and there are no hard and fast engineering calculations. More importantly these days is weight rating, as the four strokes are getting pretty hefty.

craigie
26-11-2003, 02:12 PM
Guy's, What about Fibre-Glass !!! Is it a distant 3rd or is there nothing available in the smaller sizes ?

Craigie.

aussiebasser
26-11-2003, 02:17 PM
Good point Craigie, unfortunately there are not many 4 metre 'glass boats on the market that offer the room, stability and HP capacity of the Tinnies and Plastic boats.
Then again, if you wanted a 4.5metre half cab, there's not much that will compare to the comfort of 'glass.
Again, Horses for Courses.

Randall
27-11-2003, 03:57 AM
No, you have it all wrong Dale....I fish out of your boat and I put up with you!!! The boat is fine!!! ;D

Tin V Poly huh? There will always be this debate. Do your own homework and choose accordingly. All I will say is that if one already has a substancial investment in Tin, one will have a vested interest in tin. However, if one is considering a new purchase, Poly will more than likely be the choice, (subject to some research first).

Like poly or not, it is the new material for marine applications. It has gained credibility in the trade and is beggining to become far more popular. It will be interesting to see where it is all heading.

Randall.

krazyfisher
27-11-2003, 10:57 AM
having had a tinny, a poly and now a glassy they all have good and bad points. for pure ride its has to be glass, for tuffness poly I had my poly of 12mths and well not bad but each is better and worse for differant things I want to see how poly goes after 5 or so years in the water

Randall
28-11-2003, 08:54 AM
Krazy...try 25 years mate. Thats the expected life out of Polyethylene.

I have been using it for 20 years in my industry and the stuff has an extremely long life...even in the sun.

Poly boats have been around for a long time ...canoes too.. and the stuff still remains stable and unchanged.

Randall.

Kerry
28-11-2003, 04:48 PM
.... I want to see how poly goes after 5 or so years in the water

The stuff is no different to what poly water tanks are made out of and they have to hold water all the time, on the inside, just a little different to a boat.


Cheers, Kerry.

krazyfisher
29-11-2003, 02:52 AM
HEY HEY
I would buy a 4.1 poly any day and we have had poly tanks for 10yrs I love the stuff but I would like to see what will happen with 25yrs of flexing my poly which started as a nice straigh hull was starting to ripple from the flex of chop still no problems all I am saying is I would like to see, but I am still in favour of poly so not need to attack ;D

gif
29-11-2003, 04:24 AM
I assume that Poly Kayaks are similar material.

They are a lot thinner of course. When a poly kayak gets out of shape it is usually because it was pushed out of shape AND in the hot sun. The repair is simply to leave it in the sun, without any pressure - an it "pops" back into shape.

At 10mm thick x 2 layers the Polycraft is a lot stiffer than a kayak. Even so they only recommend a trailer with full length slides and not rollers. I figure that a few hot summer days on a roller would start to deform the boat - leaving a dimple. Again, the "repair" is to remove it from the pressure points of the rollers, leave it in a hot sun, and let it pop back into its original shape.

No problems on the water - it never gets hot enough to deform because the water cools the part of the boat belted by the chop. And because the material flexes intentionally ( which gives the soft ride) it is not likely to crack like welded metals.

As you say - time will tell. Still 25 years is a long time for any boat. Poly boats are made in many countries including the USA - a country full of lawyers, so I recon the material is reliable enough and tested enough for me.

One top angler in NSW Dave W got his Polycraft in black That would be the hottest and absorb the most heat - and not my choice ( but it DOES look cool)

And yes, it is the same raw material as Poly tanks. The Polycraft factory is next to the owners other factory that has been making rainwater tanks for many years. That is how they " got it right" so quickly - they had actually been making bigger vessels than boats for years. ( and soon a 6 metre! - the worst kept secret in Bundaberg)

Of course being made of tank grade material means your poly boat is made out of food grade material. I have no idea why that is important or interesting. Maybe your boat could also double as a huge punch bowl for your office Christmas party? :D

Gary

striker
30-11-2003, 03:48 PM
Does Poly come in Plate ? ;D :o ;D