GEESE!!! FarR harKkTT Motor MATE!!!

[michael_Brewer]

:-/ :-/ :-/
please help me!
16 year old kid with a 3.7 edgetracker... A Beauty!!! 9.9 Johnson that worked lovely... untill..... TODAY!!! :-[ >:( :-[
was headin up the creek on a king tide, flat out because i have seen whats there at low tide.... when all of a sudden the motor dies and a puff of smoke seaps through the cowling!!! "FaRhaRhaRhaRKTTT Motor mate!!!" quote... from the $@#%er on the bank!!! Into PANIC MODE!!!

quickly unclip cowling and see the the smoke is getting worse! cowling over the side!!!

fireman Mick takes immediate action!!!! Un plugs Fuel Tank and throws over the side! tried to get the motor free, but motor was locked to boat!!! because of the #!$@er who tried to steal my last one! smoke is getting worse!!

smoke is engulfing the boat! CRAP!!!! by this stage the $@#%ers on the bank realise that the situation is worse than they thought.... so they decided to put there spectating skills to good use! and watch!!!! >:(

I'm not to familiar with all fire fighting drills yet! especially out board fires, and am pretty sure that the a bucket of water on the outboard would have only made it worse and spread it! i did however get a rag wet it, ring it and pat the motor down which seemed to cut the smoke down considerably!

I am pretty certain, from what the intelligent #@$!er on the bank had to say..... my motor is pretty much shagged!!! any ideas what i may have done ... or not done to prevent this or even and whether its salvageable, AND what the hell just happened to my motor ???

cheers....
the little #@$%er that just wants to fish!!! >:( >:( >:(
p.s cant resize pics! small burnmarks around the spark plugs... and alot of the paint has bubbled up so it must of gotten pretty hot! 1
p.p.s NO PRAWN REPORT!!

[NQCairns]

Sad story there :'( and the guys on the bank just add insult to injury heh! Sounds like you overheated it. Either the pump failed or you picked up a bag over the intakes. The motor is toast, good for spares only - sorry. They get fire hot without any water to keep cool. Find another the same so you have extra parts for the future.nq

[michael_Brewer]

yeh ya not wrong! really wish i still had my slingshot! PUNKS!

yeh i might check the motor now, see if anythin is blockin the pump! check the tell tale and all!

[Gorilla_in_Manila]

Mick,
Doesn't sound good mate.
Was your water pump working? Did you mix your own fuel or did you use premix? (wondering if it has been running too lean) Was there a bang before the smoke? If so, you might find a hole in the piston(s).
Either way, sounds like its rooted. Sorry to say.
Bummer.
Jeff
PS not too sure what you expected from the guys on the bank? Swim out to a burning boat and climb in?

[bungie]

The important question tho ........ did you get on to any prawns ?? [smiley=devilish.gif]

[NQCairns]

Good luck Michael, a hot sieze at high RPM does nasty permanent stuff to the motor innards. If you can find working 15hp one, just bolt the powerhead onto your engine I think they are identical?? If it was a 15hp you would have been further down the creek before it failed and would have missed out on the spectators :) It happens to the best of us.nq

[michael_Brewer]

hahahaha!! ;D na but comments like "LOOKS LIKE YA GONNA BE ROWIN" while ya motor's on fire defineatly doesn't help!

yeh i mix my own fuel! 50 : 1 Unleaded i'm always very accurate with my mixing!

BUGGER

[michael_Brewer]

lmao bungie! only got one cast in mate! NOTHIN ;D ;D ;D

NQ, yeh they are the same!!! i think it is pretty hard to get ahold of em though because so many people wanna do that exact thing!

[NQCairns]

Quote:

quickly unclip cowling and see the the smoke is getting worse! cowling over the side!!!

fireman Mick takes immediate action!!!! Un plugs Fuel Tank and throws over the side! tried to get the motor free, but motor was locked to boat!!! because of the #!$@er who tried to steal my last one! smoke is getting worse!!

Just reread your post and :D :D :D :D. You sure they were still STANDING and watching at this stage?? :D nq

[bungie]

HAHahahahahahha lol

[michael_Brewer]

awww, these were diferent #@$!er's!!! ;D

current was only really slow so nothin floated away to far! :D

[NQCairns]

Glad you got the stuff back, lucky the motor was locked!!! It wouldn't have floated very far :o.
In the years to come the experience will actually seem worth it.You will be telling this story at many a party in the future. nq

[michael_Brewer]

hahaha i'm sure i will! with more exageration than my story already involves ;D ;D ;D yeh it is a lesson, just glad it didn't get worse, or the fuel catch fire.... that's why i was so keen to get that bloody motor off! cause it would've meant the boat too!!!

it's all good...... CHICKS LOVE FIREMAN!!!! and that's the important thing here!!!

[NQCairns]

;D ;D ;D ;D

[landy1]

Jaaaasuss, what a bummer, guess whos gonna get roasted ;D at the next meet and greet. But seriously a mechanic might be able to see if anything there is salvagable. Keep your chin up
cheers
Mick

[michael_Brewer]

yeh yeh yeh! burley boy, fireman mick!!! I'm gonna cop it pretty bad :-/ ;D ;D ;D rang the mechanic he said chances are that a bag has gone over the water intake, motor's heated right up! when the motor turns off, the intake propellor stops spinning and the bag just simply floats away! so ya wouldn't know what hit ya! either way the edgy won't be out for awhile ay!

so what do i start savin up for!
New car or New outboard???. New car or New outboard???
New car or New outboard???. New car or New outboard???
New car or New outboard???. New car or New outboard???
New car or New outboard???. New car or New outboard???
New car or New outboard???. New car or New outboard???


NEW OUTBOARD ;D ;D ;D

[Lucky_Phill]

I've been in 2 boats over the years that have had a ' heating ' problem.

Both went ' bang' and then died, smoked etc.

I usually found the top of the piston attached to the spark plug !

On the Skanky, I actually felt a bag hit the leg one time, and had the sense to stop and look at the tell tail, no water, stop boat, remove Coles bag from prop area, continue, thanking lucky stars !

Good Luck, Mick.


Cheers Phill

[Big_Kev]

Yeah Mick when you get em that hot they are usually R rated.
Do you have insurance at all.
Give me a bell if you want to pull her down and have a look to see if it can be salvaged.
Cheers Kev.

[michael_Brewer]

yeh phil, I'm usually right on to it with the tell tail, with constant checks! Not today >:( i didn't see anythin when i stopped!! I did however take this spark plugs out! were not attached to the piston, and therewas a bit of black stuffaround the edges... burnt!

hey kev, would really appreciate that! I don't have the slightest idea what to do, i'd just end up handin overmore money to the mechanic for a motor that won't go again! I hassled mum about insurance for ages cause i didn't want it to get flogged off! don't think we ever got around to doing it though, she's gonna check when she gets home! ill talk to you about it this week,but could really use a little advice if you get a chance! thanks kev!!

[ba229]

I know it's rare but not all overheated motors are rooted. once knew a guy who cooked a car motor and i mean really cooked it. seized while going over 100km/h. funny enough when it cooled down and had water again it fired first go.

if it was me i would pull it over with the plugs OUT. if you can't then it's a problem. if you can then put the plugs in and try it. doesn't cost anything and if its already f+%@#d then you aren't doing any real harm.

[paz]

yeh i'd investigate a little more to,,may not be buggered..try turnin her over,,pull the plugs,,,see if it is free,,put your finger over the plug hole and see if it has compression as you pull it over,,if it hasnt,,,easy to pull the head and have a gander..if she does,,then wack some plugs in it,,,and try and start it,,if it goes,,,have a listen,,any strange noises then i'd pull her right down,,rebuld time...
paz
edit.....in actually thinking about what i said previously and due to past happenings on this board decided it best to be removed,,,and to make mental note to think b4 saying.... :-X puting ones foot back in mouth now....

[michael_Brewer]

ok didn't really understand at first... i'm not very mechanically minded as you'll soon find out :-/! when i got it home i pulled the cord to see if it was gonna go or not. it didn't start but im pretty certain that i was able to pull the cord! it made a squeeking sound everytime i pulled it! so it seems to be free! when you say compression... should there be air being sucked through those holes when the motor is pulled over? i will have another look tomorrow after school cause im at my dad's. just don't really know what i'm lookin for! so take the plugs out, try and pull the motor over. feel the holes when i pull it to check for compression. anything else? if the motor does pull over, what would that indicate.... just that's it's not seized?

why do you take the plugs out to pull it over in the first place, is that just simply so it doesn't start... or for another reason?

sorry, just never had anyone to teach me about motors!
cheers......motorless mick

[blaze]

hi Mick
go to the libary and see if they have a workshop manual on your motor, might not help this time but it would be a good project to dismantle to learn a little more of the mechanics of an outboards, it be a good way to learn for the future, you will get more value out of it that way than the few dollars you will get for it on a sale
cheers
blaze

[michael_Brewer]

could not have thought of a better idea, i wonder if i can get a hold of one! thanks blaze, ill do just that!!!
champion!!!
cheers mick

[ba229]

when a motor turns over and the piston is on its way up (ie going towards the plugs) it is COMPRESSING the fuel air mixture ready for the plug to fire and make the bang that runs the whole show.

with the plugs out there is a way for the air to escape so there is no compression actually created.

that means if the plugs are out it is easier to pull over. i hope that makes sense.

so the reason for taking the plugs out is to see if the thing is seized or not in the first case. if you can crank it over then it isn't seized.

Go and talk to the industrial arts teachers at school and see if they will explain to you the way a 2 stroke motor runs. they will have pictures in steps to show what is happening inside the motor. once you understand how it works it is all VERY easy.

as blaze said this is a good chance to learn for the future. motor technology is not that hard to understand and is invaluable for when you want to fix your car, outboard, lawn mower, wiper sniper etc. they all work the same way except some are 2 stroke and some are 4 stroke.

further more because you are learning something to do with real life and its for YOUR motor you will really learn quickly and have some fun along the way.

[ba229]

i should clarify the statement i said about all motors working the same way.

i know the difference between 2 and 4 stroke guys so don't think i'm an idiot. what i meant was for an engine to run you need to mix fuel with air, compress it and light it using a spark plug (except for deisel just ignore this concept for now mick) after that you need to get rid of the exhaust gasses and do it all over again.

[paz]

blaze mate im not that much of a con artist,,so dont stress mate,,i wouldnt do it,,and yes,,like you said,,if someone was to sell something that was faulty then it should be stated b4 the sale the history of the item...(not that all sellers are that honest though)
michael,,if your motor is making a squeeking noise as you pull it over then it sounds as if one of the pistons may have picked up on the bore,,do as blaze said and go get yaself a manual...try e-bay as well,,,always a heap there listed...no better way to learn than on your own motor...
paz

[propdinger]

how old is the motor i may have a manual at home somewhere

jeff

[ba229]

i thought about the squeak noise too. it could be that beacuse all the oil has been burnt that it just needs some lubrication (it will get this from the fuel mick). you could try squirting some fuel-oil mix into the cylinder when the plugs are out and see if this stops the squeaking.

take it to reel hard. he has made a generous offer to look at it for you and no doubt he can teach you things easier than it is for us to tell you on the board.

[bungie]

Michael,

Go to the Brisbane City Council Library site at http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/uhtbin/webcat/

Then do a search using "Johnson outboard" in the title.

They have a few copy's around the different library's around town, pick one near you and go and photocopy the pages you want

[keen_as_mustard]

I know this doesn't help after the event but in my younger days when I had a ski boat (before I realised boats were better used for fishing) I cooked a relatively new 200hp Mercury. Took it to my local mechanic and after a few investigative questions he put it down to environmental damage (ie. bag over the water intake). I had insurance (Club Marine) and they paid $3000 to repair. I was never so happy to have insurance in my life. I couldn't prove the plastic bag, but the mechanic just happened to be a Club Marine agent and he did all the paper work for me. Won't leave home without it.

I know this doesn't help this time Michael, but next time...

[michael_Brewer]

thanks for the replies guys, much appreciated!!!
am trying to get to my mum's house cause im keen to start surgery!!! ;D


Ba229, that does make sence. I spoke to my marine studies teacher today about it in class, he described to us the possible reasons for this happening... mainly about the water pump. if the motor is not seized... is it likely the motor itself can be salvaged or to early to determine?

Paz, the only other problems ive ever had with motor was my little z50 motorbike!! was ridin it around when all of a sudden the motor konked out. same story as this really. when i tried to start it back up, the motor would squeek just like this. still dunno what it was :-/ awwwwww MICK ;D ;D

Prop Dinger, The motor is either 92 or 93!! it is a 9.9 HP Johnson... I am defineatly lookin to pullin it apart ;D ;D I'm like that!!! i will try these other things first tho! have you got one?

Bungie, ill try get down there this week if prop dinger hasn't got one!

Thanks kindly for your advice!

[michael_Brewer]

marty... no it doesn't ;D ;D ;D

first thing on my list to do when i decide what to with this engine!! ;D
thanks mate :D :
Mick

[propdinger]

sorry micheal i couldnt find my manual anywhere it has been a few years since i needed it and a few moves
sorry again

jeff

[paz]

mich have a cruise around this site http://www.maxrules.com/fix.html
gives you a basic idea of how the 2 stroke motor works,,might be some other good reading there for you as well..
paz

[drevil]

Good luck with this Mick. Reading all these posts kind of highlights how many great people are on this web site.

Just gotta say this though...Mick, that is one ugly, ugly photo in your Avitar. I trust you don't normally look like that?

[michael_Brewer]

Drevil, i did after my motor died!!! ;D

righto, setup the motor with muffs and hose. pulled out the plugs, gave a little spray with inox.. only a little. tried to pull over.. no worries, and also plenty of compression. put plugs back in. pulled out the choke went to try and pull it over and the motor kicked over but then shut off pretty quickly... put the choke back in and tried to start it with the choke back in. no luck ay.....
bdrdrdrd! :'( bdrdrd!! :'( bdrdrd!!! :'(
(by the way that's suppose to be the sound of the motor not starting :-/)
is that a good sign that it kicked over in the first place?

[blaze]

Hi Mike
Things are looking good, BUT my advice would be, at this point dont try and start it, pull the head off the motor so you can check the condition of your cycinder surface (if it did sieze for a short time there may be some aliminium on the cycinder walls, if it started with that there you may do a lot more damage.) so at this point you may still need to strip the motor, maybe a new piston, I would put at least a set of rings in, maybe just a set of gaskets.
keep the question coming
cheers
blaze

[landy1]

At least its not completely seized

[argee]

Any updates?

In the very least you'll have to check the water pump and more than likely replace it. Also give all of the electricals and wiring a good look over. Chances are some of it may have melted and be shorting out.

[paz]

i'd say it would need new rings at least,,if they had gotten red hot they would have gone soft and lost their tension..a good excuse to give the motor a freshen up and keep her goin for another 10 years...
paz

[ba229]

How's the motor going mate?

Did you look at it or get another one?