glass boat lists on plane

[JEFF_B]

haines signature 530 f + merc 115hp.
when boat gets on plane it lists to port .
have taken wings off - no help.
fuel is in centre/ underfloor tank. batteries either side.
Any suggestions ?
( rang haines they suggested trim tabs.)

[NQCairns]

Do you have hydraulic or no feedback steering?

[banshee]

My mates 530f Haines does exactly the same thing,it drives him mad,I'll be catching up with him later on in the week so I'll find out where he's up to with it and get back to you.

[blaze]

sounds like an uneven load some how, maybe ya need to fit a set of trim tabs
cheers
blaze

[Big_Kev]

Jeff what are these wings you mention?

[Kerry]

If it listed to starboard the that would be a worry but a list to port does make sense, probably has all to do with motor/prop torgue as this is exacly what a centrally balanced boat should do under power.

Cats with non countering engines are more noticeable but with a Cat the port hull can be trimmed up to compensate. In a mono the trend might not be so noticeable but wind and the direction of the wind relative to the heading can either counter the torgue effect (to some extent) or aid the list further. Might also find some hull/makes/models are more pronounced than others.

Cheers, Kerry.

[JEFF_B]

Steering is a single cable setup.
Wings were a "bullfrog" type setup bolted to the cav plate on the motor.

Blaze. Be interested to hear what your mate has to say.

Thanks all for your responses.

Jeff Brewer

[JEFF_B]

Sorry , Banshee not Blaze

[Big_Kev]

Is the motor mounted perpendicular to the transome?
Is the motor mounted on the centerline of the transome?
The SVDH on the 492 I had has 4 separte compertments built into the hull. One along the center at the bottom of the hull that is drained from the lower transome plug.
An upper central that has the removeable floor for access to the tank and underfloor storage drained through the upper transome plug.
The bilge pump is normaly mounted in the upper center at the transome.
There are 2 more pods that run along each side of the hull outside the stringers built into the hull under the floor and drain into the upper center to the bilging area under the motor well, these have plugs that you will have to stick your head under the motor well to access.
If these plugs are in place and the hull has water in it (from crack in hull)this is a possible cause.
Water can also enter through the steering cable hole and into the center and possibly into the sides if plugs are out.
That is if the 530 is a similar set up to the 492 as one would think they are very similar.
Hope you can understand that lot Kev :) :)

[Big_Kev]

PS give them wing things to someone you don't like.

[Cloud_9]

id agree with Kev.
id put money on the motor not on straight up & down.
the bigger manufactures use monkeys to do the installation to save money.
it doesn't have to be out by much for it to get the problem that you have.
had cruz craft with same problem, motor was only out by 5mm, had to redrill holes.
problem solvered.

[nictim]

my V17L has the same problem trim it up a bit and problem fixed
Im also a little under powered yammy CV85

Steve ---

[NQCairns]

Those with hydraulic or no fedback steering usually have the most problems because they cannot feel if the boat is balanced as easily at any speed.

If you do have standard full feedback steering. Do you notice an increase in effort needed at the wheel leading up to when it flops? if so adjust the trim fin to compensate.

Without this fin setup to compensate the forces are directed at the hull and it will exagerate or create a lean. The fin is adjustable to a narrow speed range only. Outside of this it is collectively less usefull.

Combine also a miss adjusted fin with the driver compensating at the steering wheel ie engine off keel centre line and it's a big bag of bad tempered cats ;D (not shark cats ;D) Get jiggy with that fin and test drive.
Hope I made sense.nq

[Big_Kev]

Good point NQ.

[JEFF_B]

Thanx to all who replied. Motor appears to be square to the transome.Motor sits approx 45mm above transome on either side of the motor with cav plate just below the hull. There is evidence that the motor has been lifted and lowered 1 notch either way by the previous owner from the current location. No water in hull when bungs removed. Tried trimming up motor didn't help. Have tried full adjustment left and right of tab on motor ,made no difference to the list , boat pulled left or right with adjustment. I give up i will have to grow one leg longer than the other. JEFF B.

[NQCairns]

Hi Jeff, the only thing I can think of now if you have tried everything is to spend some of your money :'( You probably have a standard prop SS or alum? Consider a prop change to something designed to give bow lift, some 4 blade do a good job but there is some 3 blades out there that do a good job also. Some places allow test drives until one works. Extra bow lift will distribute the weight aft and wetted surface at speed aft with the possible added advantage of improving boat performance at most other speeds also.
Lastly and most drastic is to get a professional to rework your strakes or chines to lower hull lift where needed but that is drastic.
Unless this is a true warped hull in some way I feel confident that it is setup and fiddling with a mate over a day of testing should get it at least liveable, quite possiblyf you had a 90hp it wouldn't do it the same goes for a 130hp.
If you work it out dont forget to let us all know, there seems to be a spat of quality brands lately behaving like known bad reputation hulls of 20 years ago, manufacturers should be way past that by now.nq

[JEFF_B]

Thanx nq cairns. I have been wanting to get a ss prop now i have a reason to spend the dollars. I will let you know how i go. good fishing

[Al_Macka]

JEFF_B
Just a query....
New , Old or inherited prob !!!!

[JEFF_B]

Boat is 98 model . I have had it abt 18mths and it has had the problem all the time i have owned it and i assume because previous evidence of the lifting and lowering of the motor the previous owner had the same problem but didn,t tell me when i purchased it. :D

[Al_Macka]

Jeff......
R- U , RUNNING 17 or 19 inch prop ????

[Al_Macka]

#
# RE.....Thank`s #HAINES 4 YOUR SURPORT./..********
# #
# # #I #Do`nt #know about #U ....... OUR #LOCAL #OUTBOARD
# # #GUY, WILL WATER TEST......
# # #PROB`S # ... #Can #B #solved....
# # #your #local must show #interest #??????
# # # B #going #elese where other #wise....

# # #macka.....

[Dillon]

This may sound stupid But I'm real tired. :(

does the motor have a fin behind the prop ?
if so
This (if there is one) is used to counteract the rotation of the prop. I have had the same prob on both a 150hp and 40hp motors I have owned both being new, I took them back to the dealer , told him of the problem all he did in both cases was nudge the fin firmely with his hand in the direction that the boat listed to problem fixed. ;D

[JEFF_B]

al macka i went direct to haines with no clear response other than to put trim tabs which costs about 1200 bucks. the prop is a 19 inch prop.

Dillion i have tried full adjustment of tab behind prop left and right but will try again.

[Hagar]

G'day Jeff
Have read all of the above . I have found a lot of deep vee hulls will chine lean to one side if you put a lot of weight forward in the boat not distributed evenly eg kids standing in the forward hatch etc. This can usually be corrected by trimming up and increasing speed . If you have heaps of weight up forward you could try shifting some .

BUT yours sounds like it may be doing it all the time . If there is no obvious uneven load distribution in the boat (like is the battery . driver and oil tank on the same side ) it sure sounds like water is being held in an underfloor compartment somewhere. Is there an interconnecting drain plug not obvious somewhere or a hull crack / water entry point as previously mentioned ? Surely Haines would not produce a hull with this annoying trait - email them for some ideas . Hope you get it sorted.
Chris

[JEFF_B]

HAGAR
The underfloor compartment doesnt ever have any water come from it when the lower bung is removed. I believe that the underfloor area is interconnected to alllow it to drain should it get water in it. I purposely put extra weight on the starboard side to level it (my portly companion abt 115kg+esky etc). I have tried rocking the boat on the trailer after a rough day at sea but can't hear any water splashing about and there appears to be no evidence of water leaking from the boat when sitting on the trailer. I am taking it to the local dealer to see if can find an answer to the problem that i cant see. If the dealer does no good i will tackle haines again. BANSHEE. Any word from your mate where he is at with the same problem?

[banshee]

I have not seen him personaly yet,but second hand info is that he put "wedges" between the outboard and the transom,the local boat shop fitted them last week and he hasn't reported back to them yet.I heard he has gone out today so I'll try to contact him again tonight.

[Monza]

I recently bought a signature 600rf with a similar problem - leaned to the port side - I tried redistributing the weight and with just me on board it leaned to starboard. It also had a tendency to lean into the wind, or onto which ever side the majority of passengers were sitting on. As you probably know, this plays havoc with trying to get the hull to cut cleanly through waves. A bit of research confirmed most deep-vee hulls do this to some degree, and trim tabs are the single most effective solution.
I fitted a set of hydraulic trim tabs (Bennett M120 - $840 although any type would probably do) and the ride is transformed. Even with all passengers on one side, the boat can now be instantly staightened with a quick press of a trim button. In rough water, the bow can also be forced down to cut through chop like it was on rails. Best money I've spent !

[SeaSaw]

Sounds like a bit of a problem, and I would be trying to track down the root cause before fitting Tabs to just mask the problem.

However, I do highly recommend the benefits of Trim Tabs. Like Monza, I fitted a set of trim tabs to my 6.8m Haines Hunter and it completely transformed the ride of the boat. Not only can you correct any list, but the extra surface area on the water creates extra lift in the stern even with the trim tabs only very slightly down. This creates lower planning speeds and better overall trim. Tabs will turn a good boat into a great boat. I think it was the best investment I ever made on the boat.

Mark

[banshee]

G'day Jeff,just spoke to my mate,he's running a 115 Yamy on his hull and apparently the verticle transom angle of the Haines was not giving him enough up trim,he had wedges fitted between the motor and the transom he also put both his batteries on the high side plus a bit of other gear he now seems happy with the results.

[Sportfish_5]

Monza - Did you install the tabs yourself ? If so was it easy and what comes in the kit ? I am saving for a set of Bennets myself.

Cheers
Greg

[Monza]

I installed them myself - took a bit a fiddling around as the Signature has a foam inner lining and transom steps to get around. Kit comes with all items including switch panel, wiring harness, bolts, screws etc. All you need to provide is about 1L of any transmission fluid and some sikaflex for sealing around the mounts.

[JEFF_B]

Thanks for all the comments. Trim tabs appears to be the best answer to the problem.I am a fair bit disappointed that haines didn't offer to much to help i would have thought that i would be in their interest to help never mind. I am going to 1770 and Stanage in early june and will let everyone know how the tabs go. Once again thanks to all.

[JEFF_B]

Trim tabs (Bennet M120s) have now been fitted and will be sea tested in two weeks time and i will let everyone know how they go.

[JEFF_B]

trim tabs have been fitted and work extremely well in both calm and rough conditions.best things since sliced bread. : :D