Electrical questions

[sharkbait]

Couple of questions for the electrically minded people on the board....

1. I have always run nav lights and sounder off the 12v battery in my tinny, which is charged by the motor (pull start).

I am adding a bilge pump and ciggie lighter connection to run a handheld gps/fluoro/spotlight off, which means there will be wires running every which way off the battery...Was thinking bus bars (correct terminology???) may be the answer but where do i mount them, should i mount them on a block of wood and put the whole lot into a seperate battery box? Is there a better way?


2. with the ciggie lighter, do I need to run a switch, or will a simple circuit to the battery (fused) do?

Also, should the bilge pump be flush with the floor or raised say half an inch to try and stop the sand/seaweed/chook pellets??? that end up down there clogging it up?

Thanks, Kris.

[Zeeke]

bus board on a length of wood sounds alright.. and bilge to the bottom should be fine, its how mine was fitted and its always worked fine..

as for the ciggie lighter, grab urself one of those plastic battery boxes that come with a inbuilt ciggy lighter socket and a battery meter.. certainly helps

Tim

[sharkbait]

hmmm ok tim, but I get a bit of crap in the bilge through climbing in and out to fish the surf etc, will this block up the pump (good quality rhule one)??? Not sure of the battery boxes you mean, and I've already bought a ciggie lighter connection, but i will check them out anyway...

BTW we fished murphies and the inner gneerings last night for sweet FA, didnt get out until after dark which was dissapointing as i wanted another crack at the parrot. Found a couple of large lumps that come up from 110ft to 85ft which had some great shows of fish on the sounder, anchored, berley, floaters but only one take which busted off...Had to come in closer by about 8.30pm though as the s/w was starting to blow...

Kris.

[SeaHunt]

If ciggie lighter connection is from Supercheap etc. it will corrode fairlly quickly, there is a stainless steel version available from most chandlerys. No need for a switch to the ciggie lighter plug, but fuse everthing you hook up to your battery, 20 amp for ciggie lighter plug should be plenty.

[BladeRunner]

Hi sharkbait
Nice little project to take on
My sugestion would be to buy yourself two Links as used in AC, A red And A black they come with covers and a buz , Use an insulated material between it and your boat (Is it aluminium ? ).
Or you can buy a fuesed switch panel say 4 switches and depending on the amps a fuse sutable for the aplication 6 or 8 amp for bildge pump, 2or 3amp for light .Then each has it"s own protection in case of a surge .Don't forget the GPS it will require special attention as it comes under electronics and you don't won't to blow that up sounder too .mA quick blow fuse here.
If you get stuck give me a call and I can Help you out .

BladeRunner [smiley=bandana.gif]

[sharkbait]

Thanks BR, and seahunt....

The boat is aluminium, and the ciggie lighter was from a chandlery, should be S/S. I already have switches mounted, and everything is fused, I guess the question is should the bus boards be housed seperately in another battery box, or is there another way to do it? Didnt think they should be out in the open. Is there even a need for bus boards or can I just wire the whole lot straight to the battery and hope for the best? Say there are wires going to the battery, for the motor, the sounder, the lights, the ciggie lighter, and the bilge...

Thanks, Kris.

[aido]

i'd be going straight to the battery terminals and use
a good quality (waterproof) inline fuse holder in the
positive lead near the battery terminal.
use the kiss principle (keep it simple stupid).
no offence meant for you there kris.
cheers, aido.

[sharkbait]

I like that idea aido ;D

No more parts to buy. I will give it a go and see how messy it looks.

THanks, Kris.

[aido]

when making your wire joins, i like to put a few inches of
thermofit sleeve on the wire, solder the wires, liberal amount
of non-corrosive silastic 738, then shrink the thermo sleeve
over that. ain't no way water/corrosion will stuff it up later.

if you like the kiss principle, just coat your joints with the 738
and you will avoid later problems. (do not use 732 with it's acidic
base, wire joints will corrode in no time flat).

if thats all too hard, plastic lecky tape at the least.

cheers.

[CHRIS_aka_GWH]

definitley use a switch on the cig lighter in an open boat - deinitely house the bus board in an open boat.

I had an experience at the flathead classic several years back where a storm sprang out of nowhere. The sheeting water made complete circuits in the cig sockets etc, sparks & steam & general panic. An that was in smooth water.

Run your wiring mess thru bilge pipe tucked into the gunnels. Attempt to have all wiring down one side. #Make sure your battery & bus board is away from your fuel cell simply for safety sake - usually to one side mid boat so it is higher than any water in the bottom that will flow to the back of the boat as u accelerate.

I went thru the process with my previous tinnie. As the guys said keep it simple & logical, so you can track problems or add to it & waterproof the connections.

chris

[sharkbait]

Bugger....I put it all in this morning..no switch on the ciggie lighter. Sound like I will have to fix that. EVerything is pretty well waterproof and clean though ie - thermo shrink, selleys etc and run through electrical conduit. I didnt end up using a bus board but will have to look at that in the next few weeks.
Thanks for all replies.

Kris.

[BladeRunner]

Kris
some good advice there fellow members . [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]
Glad you to hear you did use a seperate buz .The reason behind it is
From the battery terminal Pos & Neg you can use a heavy lead or cable to the buz
under the consol or where ever up to the links and from there smaller cable to all the apliances you wont to run .You can then use in line fuses or as you said switches
to control on and off .
This way saves you having a lot of individual wires & lungs onto one terminal post makes fault finding easy too.
Also have you now attatched an anode to the hull for electrol'ysis ? [smiley=oops.gif]
Looks like the Buz needs a re think
BladeRunner [smiley=bandana.gif]

[sharkbait]

Bladerunner -

I havent used a buz yet...so there are a heap of wires hanging off the battery (all waterproofed and nice and tidy, but still...) And now I am adding another bilge pump to plumb a livewell. So the Buz will be going in soon. Maybe I should take some photos and post them here. With the anode, where do I mount it? remember we are talking very simple circuits here, all the wiring (aside from the nav lights) is less than 1.3m long, ie - battery to sounder, battery to switches, battery to ciggie lighter, all of which are located behind or on the back bench seat of the tinny.

Kris.

[PinHead]

I would never use a ciggie lighter socket in any situation - they are not weatherproof...they do not handle high current draws. I have always used a GPO...cut the plug from the appliance (spot light or whatever) I wanted to use and just fitted a plug top...simple and very effective...you then have a good fitting plus it is switched.

[BladeRunner]

Here are some pictures on how I intalled the electrics and one of the anode on the keel .
Circuits might be simple, but salt water DC volts & alumunium don't mix so rather than your boat be eaten away by electrol'ysis the anode adsorbs the corrosion factor.

Pin head had the same idear as me by using a GPO & plug thats simplicity.
[smiley=bandana.gif]

[BladeRunner]

Buz under consel # pos & neg [smiley=bandana.gif]

[BladeRunner]

anode on keel [smiley=bandana.gif]

[BladeRunner]

Try Buz again [smiley=bandana.gif] [smiley=bandana.gif]

[BladeRunner]

Anode on motor [smiley=bandana.gif]

[BladeRunner]

Power supply [smiley=bandana.gif]

[drevil]

Not sure how legal it is putting a 240V plug on a 12 volt device. #You can get special plugs & gpo's for low voltage, I think the earth pin is round so you can't put it in a 240V socket by accident.

Might be worth considering. #While you would know it can't go in 240, someone else may not be aware and plug it into a regulat outlet by accident. # :o

[aido]

i was going to use the low voltage outlets in my boat, even bought
a plug/socket set. never fitted them however because ciggy lighter
sockets (marine grade with caps) are fine and every accessory is
prewired with a ciggy plug top.
the real trouble is they are filthy dear, like about $20 a set and the most
expensive half is the plug, which i would now need several.
as for quality, they are probably unbeatable.

http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adessaix/outlet.jpg

no, they don't have an earth...
round earth pin is usually 240v emergency backup outlets.
large earth pin is high current (15amp) 240v

[BladeRunner]

drevil
When you are out fishing all between you and the wharf is ocean so to supplyment the use of a gpo or any other land lubber item electrical that suits your needs could be OK .I also agree from an electrical point but highly unlightly that some one would plug mains power into there boat from a domestic supply .Let common sense prevail .
Mark your points etc and a fuse to the rating of equipment supplyed at the correct amps would protect sounder bildge & Lighting .
Hope this helps clear up any misconseptions
BladeRunner [smiley=bandana.gif]

[ba229]

I think the point was someone plugging a 12v light into the 240v mains at home.

I would also not recommend 240v plugs for electrical items that are not 240v.

[drevil]

you're right, ba229, that's the point I was making. #I can just see my youngest, who sometimes plays in my boat even when he's not supposed to, sticking a 12V spottie in a 240V outlet 'cos the shed's too dark. #

I think that is the common sense approach. #It's just not worth the risk.

[blaze]

Hi
If you get a cataloge on low voltage plugs you will find a plug to suit your needs, I used to have a hella book once with alsorts in it, go and see your local auto sparkie
cheers
blaze

[BladeRunner]

ba229
I should have known better and I was not trying to be smart most definitely agree
when it comes down to safty, Point taken .240 volt gpo's are not the way to go and low voltage is 1000v & under so don't mix them up.
BLaze is on the right track .
My apologies to you all
BladeRunner [smiley=bandana.gif]

[CHRIS_aka_GWH]

kris,

bladerunner's boat seems to be larger than a tinnie with thwart seats.

Keep ya perspective. Marine quality cig lighter-like fittings (with incidently are not made to take cig lighters) will do just fine. They are made of black impact resistant plactic with stainless electrodes. #The only bits sticking out the back are the the +ve & -ve blades for connection. The have a weather proof rubber cap. They only have plastic in contact with the mounting. They are perhaps better than a house type plug in that if they do get water in them it drains out easily with a squirt of WD as they are open. As i said you need to be able isolate them with a switch - the same with any appliance in your boat.

The biggest draw appliance in my boat (an open Nomad 475 fitted with 2 exposed plugs on the console like this) is my spottie - don't know its draw but it picks a beacon from a km away - & those plugs have no problems with it. The biggest problem is plugs can pull out easily if yanked on, but theres easy ways around that. I have used the spottie in rain without incident. I have a bus under the console with a diagram in nikko pen written around it on the inside of the console telling me whats whats.

chris

[sharkbait]

Thanks for the photos and advice all.

Chris, I have gone for the marine ciggie lighter and another switch. It has a cap and I have siliconed up the back of it where the connections are. I am looking at spotties, which one do you have and what do you reckon of it? We had a couple of battery powered ones which 'gave up the ghost' after only a couple of weeks.

Cheers, Kris.

[CHRIS_aka_GWH]

kris,

i couldn't tell you the brand - i've had it for over a decade now I think & tortured it - it takes a H3 automotive bulb & has a glass lens. Its made of impact resistant black plastic - was not meant to be weatherproof but silicon is a wonderful product.
I bought it off a clearance table somewhere. Get something hard wired like that, with replaceable bits, not too expensive with a long stretchy chord the length of your boat. It does me - theres some megga spotties out though that are much brighter of course but is it needed. Back it up with a Dolphin Torch.

I have a big patch of fluffy velcro on the side of the console & a patch of hook velcro on the side of the spottie - that way its at hand when I'm motoring at night. when the spotties tucked away in daylight - the fluffy stuff on the console doesn't grab anything.


chris

[MTpockets]

Rather than start a new post, I will add my problem here....

I have a fairly confusing wiring setup under my dash and the board has 3 fuses on it and wires running everywhere. I bought my ifinder pro GPS the other day and went to plug it intop the cig lighter but no power. I went under the dash to see if a fuse had blown but all fuses are ok. I cleaned up the terminals on the battery and now my nav light work, not checked the cig lighter yet......

My question is with the bus that you guys are refering to, is it better, or should I go with rewiring to the KISS setup?
To be honest I am no electician and my eyes are not the best so something simple would be the go. At least it has to be better than my present setup, as that is pathetic the way its setup.
Any info will be totally apreciated :)
cheers
Les

[polydriver]

When I got my boat I then wired all the accessories myself. I have used a negative bus bar to make it easier to access the neg side. I used a fuse block to the positive side to fuse everything and then shrinkwrap on the connections to provide a shield against water/spray. I am lucky as all wiring is in behind the steering wheel in a cuddy cabin. A good spray with WD40 or similar when you wash the boat keeps it clean and rust free.