2 stroke or 4 stroke

[troy]

what are the disadvantages of putting a new 2 stroke on a new boat against using a new 4 stroke.
do not do a lot of hours

[propdinger]

all depends on what type of fishing you do and what size outboard you are talking about cause a 4hp 2 stroke is as good as a 4hp 4 stroke only you have to mix oil.
but if in the 60hp plus i think 4 strokes are better for fuel and smooth idle and can troll all day


jeff

[NQCairns]

Hi tek or low tek 2 stroke?

[whiteman]

Price. You should get a 2-stroke a lot cheaper than a 4-stroke.

4-strokes are quiet (particularly at trolling) and use significantly less fuel which is an issue if you have small fuel tanks.

[QldKev]

I'm a 2-stroke person. #

The 4 strokes are best at trolling.

2 strokes have more torque,
Some of the high tech 2 strokes are comparable to the 4 stroke fuel economy. #Most are a lot closer when you talk WOT performance.
2 strokes are cheaper to service (can outway more than potential fuel savings)
Most 2 strokes are simple by design, therefore as they get older will prove to be more reliable.
2 strokes are lighter than a 4 stroke brick hanging over the transom. #:o
2 stroke are cheaper to buy

I wonder how many 30years old 4strokers will be around in 30 years?

[jimbo59]

well troy
i choose a 4/s cos i cant stand the stink of 2/strokes i do a bit of trolling and when the wind is coming over the transom and filling the cabin it puts me off me vegimite sangas





also resale on the rig is high and they sell fast
regards jimbo

[drdonjuan9]

go the 4-stroke, have a 50hp Yammy and love it!

best thing i ever got ::)

[Sportfish_5]

I wonder how many 30years old 4strokers will be around in 30 years?

I dont think there will be any carby two stroke engines being sold in 10 years time due to environmental laws. They may not even be allowed on any boat full stop. hmm would be nice to get a government rebate to replace my yammy to a clean Suzi 140 to save the environment :P :P :P

As for how many 30 yr old 4 strokes - well plenty would be my guess ;D

Cheers

Greg

[billfisher]

Greg,

Aren't these environmental laws you talk of in California USA. Even there I don't think they are retrospective, ie they only apply to new motors. I haven't heard about any moves for similar laws here except from over enthusiastic four stroke salesmen trying to justify that they are twice the price of a 2 stroke motor with similar performance. Eg 2 stroke Tohatsu 30 hp at $3000, 4 stroke Suzuki 40 hp at $8,000.

[dugong]

2 stroke vs 4 stroke
its really a personal choice as you can see buy the above comments. decide on what type of fishing you are going to mostly do, then way up the pro's and con's of each choice.
as to the enviromental issues i don't think any engine made today will be allowed to be used in 30 yrs time even if it did last as our decision makers are more interested in winning green votes than the plain truth, just look at whats happening to the GBR.
dug

[Sportfish_5]

Billfisher - Only speculating what could be. Who knows how far they could take it as ten years is a long time? Look how well 4 strokes have established themselves in the market in less than ten years. Hey - we could have fuel cell technology for outboards by then ;) ;) ;)

At the moment the regs are US based but things will certainly be getting tougher here in the next 10 years for sure and how much crap is going into the water will come under the microscope then. I believe there is a study atm in NSW somewhere about the effects of two stroke pollutants in the monitored area on marine life.

Cheers

Greg

[bignick]

Four Strokes do definitely seem to be the go. But, in saying that, Two Strokes have been around for ages and, if they were so bad, why are they still being made (and further developed) and why are they still selling? The Four Strokes' price does nothing to endear them to the boating public and their servicing costs will easily eat up any perceived savings at the fuel bowser, and then some. There also seems to be a hell of a lot more to go wrong with them in terms of electronics and computers. The manufacturers also have to try and make the Four Stroke engines a little bit lighter, whilst not compromising on performance or reliability. And, I'm not totally convinced that they have the longevity of a Two Stroke, being that they are a car-type engine. Try revving your car engine to 4000 RPM all day and see how long it lasts. I know motorcycle engines put out similar horsepower and rev hard all day and go forever; but they are not lumbered with pushing heavily laden boats through water. I do, however, agree with the thought that further environmental restrictions will come into effect in the future and make the Four Stroke Outboards the (only) way to go and consign the Two Stroke to the museums of the world. I'll wait until the Four Stroke technology is developed a bit further before I make a decision. Only time will tell.

Cheers,
NICK.

[macca]

I wonder how many 30years old 4strokers will be around in 30 years?


I have a Scott Bonnar roller mower, that is ancient. It would have to be older than 40 years. It's running a four stroke briggs and stratton, I don't know if you could call that a fair comparison to an outboard motor, but it still fire's up first go and keeps going and is still extremely economical.

I have a 60hp Yami 4 Str and it is great!!

Economical, quite, no smell, no smoke, trolls all day and no fuel mixing, just fill the tank.

Go a 4 stroke

Macca

[tonyp]

E-tech for me ;D

Does all of the above as good if not better than some four strokes .

[dfox]

These posts have the potential to end up aguements, but my opinion is the basic form of 2stroke engines (not opti, hpdi' ficht etc) are mechanically a reliable engine with miniumal moving parts so generally speaking have less systems to fail, and if clean fuel ,oil mixes and the cooling system dont fail they can be expected to last.
There draw backs are there smokey, use lots of fuel, can be stuborn to start, noisy ,vibrate and hate the enviroment.
The new generation 2strokes have improved these features by producing extremely advanced systems which control the fuel ,oil and electrics thus producing a much cleaner engine with much less smoke and heaps better fuel economy, reduced noice, better starting and less vibration. To achieve these benifates its going to cost you more for the same horsepower as aposed to the older models.This technology has come at a price with many teething problems, as many jono owners will atest.This is my view and i maybe wrong but i believe engines were rushed to meet dead lines and corners in testing cut. But there are plenty of happy high tech 2 stroke owners out there.
This is where im bias, and for good reason.
4strokes have been around for donkey years also, but until more reasent years larger horse powers werent available.
The 90hp honda set the wheel in motion.
4 strokes are smoke free, less vibrating,fuel efficent, easy starting, quiet engines and great for trolling.
The current crop of 4strokes perform equally as well as any 2stroke.Compare simular in price to the high tech 2s, have better resale,"why"? because people want them.
The knockers say-
(1) 4s are heavier- this is true in most cases and should be looked at in repowering old boats, but the gap has signifantly closed and many new boats are now designed for more transom wieght.
(2) Excelleration-all be it bugger all different, a propaly powered vessel shouldnt need full throttle in flat out bursts. Ive raced 2 identical craft and compared this and apart from racing purposes i cant see it making any difference even on bars, so unless you drag race boats this is a none issue.
(3)Servicing- all marine servicing is expensive, i dont know why? But all engines have a gearbox and leg,water pump, sparkplugs etc. The 4s have an oil filter and a sump with varrying amounts of oil. Unless your riped off on the cost of a filter and sump oil theres not much else to do.
Everyone thinks different, but the basics are there to choose from. Just look at your budget, use, resale and pick...foxy

[macca]

Well said, dfox.

macca

[billfisher]

Dfox,

4 strokes DO have less acceleration than even an old tech 2 stroke and this coupled with extra weight on the transom leads to a noticeable drop in performance in most cases.
As to longevity I think the jury is still out. 4 strokes will last for 200,000 kmns or more in cars but the marine application is totally different. The engine is constantly under heavy load, it is the equivalent of always driving you car up steep hills near full throddle. 2 stroke outboards will need a rebuild after 1000 - 2000 hrs running, but the cost of a rebuild is not prohibitive. I have heard that the cost of rebuilding a 4 stroke outboard is prohibitive making them a throwaway item (I am interested if anyone has some definite information on this, as I said, it is only something I have heard).
Also remember that 4 strokes have been foistered apon us to meet the Californian regulations, not due to any popular demand. As California is huge market, manufacturers have had to rush to meet the new regs. Naturally they want a return on this investment and thats why these motors (and high tech 2 stokes) are being pushed here.
I guess what I am saying is people just need to think about their requirements for a motor and their budget, and in a lot of cases an old tech 2 stroke is the smartest choice.

[phewy]

Dfox, you said it all. Good post! [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

[NQCairns]

If I was forced to hand over my hard earned cash today I would probably buy a 4 stroke but on paper they fail dismally when compared to high tec 2 strokes, there is not a specification where the 4s stack up! at least I know of none, if any one has a spec that outperforms a high tec 2st let me know!
That said the jury is certainly out on reliability and longevity of the high tec 2s. Some brands seem to have the reliability worked out now but only time will tell on longevity as it once was with the modern 4st.
It's a shame the 4s have a 20% performance loss over even the low tec 2s, now if the 4s shaved up to 1/3 of their weight and increased performance by 25% I would be happy to own one even if they only lived for as long as a 2 st. Some say that that the 4st have the legs over 2s but the 2s is usually proped to 5400 or even below! prop the 2s to 5800-6000 like the 4s and that is no longer true.
Actually the best motor is the one on the back of your boat if it gets a person fishing ;D.nq

[phewy]

Hey nq, you put the 4 down in so many ways but you say you would choose one over the 2 if you had to. #What the..!! :-/ ???
Must be a valid reason why! Do agree with your last statement tho ;)

[NQCairns]

Phewy, Not putting down the 4s just seeing it as it is (or as I see it :D). Today the 4s have a great track record for reliability and longevity, the high tec 2s dont as yet, for that reason alone it makes the 4st the best choice for a fishing rig ATM.
For a ski boat then the low/high tec 2st would be my only new engine choice ATM.
I do like the 4st's and would be happy to own one but on paper they cannot stack up to the high tec 2s anywhere as yet although they hold thier own against the old 2s fairly easily all things considered. cheers nq

[Kerry]

....I wonder how many 30years old 4strokers will be around in 30 years?

That will certainly be an interesting time to look back 30 years from now, hindsight will be interesting.

In some ways it's horses for courses and there's actually been a well held believe that many manufacturers have only gone into 4S as a stop gap until the 2S technology is better refined.

In hindsight there's a very good reason why one has to go the proverbial mile to find a 4S chainsaw, they originally were but not mcuh anymore. In the application there's a good reaosn for that, similar to why different motor types/technology will best suit different applications.

The cheaper the product can be made, the simplier the product and still meet all requirements will be the engine that has the ultimate edge beit 4S or 2S.

Cheers, Kerry.

[phewy]

Nq. I agree [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]. For me for fishing only its 4 st but if I was fishing and a fair bit of skiing/tubing/boarding or just plain lair-rising as well it would be a new 2, but only because of the little bit more zippiness.

[damons33]

i have a 100ae yammy 4stroke, 1005hrs up it needs the secondry jets replaced in the carbs as it mumbles at 2100rpm and at wot, it needed new brushes for the starter motor at 600hrs. the service is every 200hrs and will soon need a timing belt replacement(dohc 16valve,1600cc dedicated outboard designed engine made of dc30 alloy). this engine can be made to run on methanol or ethanol if needed.
#the only corrosion on it is on the end of the tilt pin as its made of steel and i didn't think to tilt it up when spraying her down with inox after every session on the water... not that its a problem now that i spray it!
#i know of this engine type with over 15,000 hours on it.

i'm not going to say what you should get, but i'm glad i got what i did!

i got my advise from ken and alan france, an air sea rescue big wig in sydney and the owner of a leading yammaha motocycle dealerships in hornsby- procycles. none of whom made any money from me if i made such a decision as to purchase that motor.
#like most things in life it pays to have connections.
united we stand, divided we fall.
#damon

[megafish71]

I've had two 4 stoke Yamy's now. The first was a 115hp and I sold it and the boat at 3years of age and with a tad over 1600 hrs. This motor never gave me any trouble and was excellent on fuel. My second (and currrent ) is a 200hp just coming up to 100hrs now. So far not a single sign of trouble and just as impressive on fuel. IMHO once you've owned a 4 stroke you'll never go back to a 2 stroke.

A good friend of mine ( a fishing tour opperator in the NT ) had a 50hp yamy four stroke for many years and sold it and boat to upgrade. When he sold it it had 6500hrs on it and never missed a beat. Just regular servicing and change the impeller in the water pump at the end of each season. To my knowledge this engine is still going well.

My two bobs worth,

Ron

[Kerry]

So what's the critical factors in comparing any engine beit 4S or 2S (or whatever).

Like many things, an outboard that is used every day is better than one that is not, regardless of make/model/2s or 4S.

What's the difference between a motor that has lots of hours that might run flat for 30 minutes a trip, idle for 8, basically do very little work, go nowhere compared to a motor that might only run 4 hours a trip but cover lots of miles and effectively do some hard work in those hours?.

Cheers, Kerry.

[damons33]

i think weight is the biggest issue at the moment as most boats are designed for a lighter 2stk engine, my boat was and is stern heavy.
2strokes are better suited for on/off throttling like circuit gp tunnel hull racing.
i think the 4strokes are better for outside and labouring in heavier seas for sustained periods and the 2strokes much like the gp bikes to the super sports bikes have a greater power to weight ratio and acceleration. i think its the 4stroke that have more scope for improvement then the 2s'. merc has a supercharged 4 at the moment.... how about if like gp motorcars we start to see turbo's on them and the power to weight advantages they create(remember what happen to turbo's in gp cars!), all things are getting smaller for the same strenght or stronger.... look at the diff in the subaru wrx for amazing strenght from a small diameter.
damon