VHF Radio

[Zeeke]

Is it true you no longer need to have a VHF Radio liscence to own and operate one now?? heard on another fishing it isnt required.. but interested to hear from others

Tim

[SeaSaw]

Tim, that doesn't sound quite right to me. A while ago, they removed the need to licence the VHF set (which had an annual fee associated with it) but I believe you still need an operators licence to use a VHF set. Unless something changed very recently ???

Mark

[Kerry]

One is the actual apparatus license, which is no longer required (covered under a class license) and the other is an operators certificate of proficiency, which still is required. Many get these two mixed up so basically one can fit one but without an operators can not use it, but technically without an operators the fitting of a VHF even becomes a bit grey.

There has been talk of even the operators requirements being waived but that hasn't occured as yet and with VHF being part of international agreements there is some doubt if waiving of the operators requirements would occur?

Cheers, Kerry.

[subzero]

100% spot on Kerry, but havent heard of the requirements for the licence being dropped.
What is under way is that their have been some submissions put forward to remove the requirement for SOME commercial opperators that do not carry the more expensive MF/HF sets to only require the MROVCP certificate, as currently they are forced into obtaining the MROCP certificate being a commercial opperation.

This applies in particular to rescue units who can not afford to buy the MF/HF sets and will therefore never be likely to install them as a result but all members are required to hold the MROCP just the same.
Cheers Lloyd

[Sandman]

Interesting! How many of you that own a VHF as i do , do not have an opperating cert of prof ? I spoke to my ex partner about this as she is currently in Marine rescue in Melbourne and sitting her licence due to her living on her yatch.
I had an experience in MB last year that involved a deceased person in the water ( long story with a twist), anyways i use my radio each time i go out , however there are protocol for such a situation hence frustrated me on this day. MR advised me that my proceedure was dealt with well , however my ex advised me that there is a procedure to follow but maybe QLD laws are different?? anyways let us know who ownes one.

[baldyhead]

You are not quite correct Kerry if you are talking about Qld.
I have had discussions with the Manager @ Radio Inspectors office here in Cairns and he has stated that "one can fit a VHF radio into ones boat and use it in an emergency type situation IE out of fuel/ electrical problem @ sea, without the person having a ticket to use it." It is not illegal to have in your boat without the necessary certificated person. He said that THEY would NEVER prosecute anyone for using a VHF without a certificate unless they were interfering/abusing or issuing hoax calls etc. He also said that any person on the boat can use the VHF for general chat without a certificate so long as someone aboard had the certificate.
He also stated that it would be in my BEST interest to get a certificate to be able to follow the correct operation procedures. I had explained to him that I had a VHF and was worried about fitting it to my boat before I got my certificate.

cheers baldy

[NQCairns]

Good news Baldy, somebody with the power to prosecute and they use it decently - what are the odds :-X.
I am in the same situation as you re VHF I rigged up a hidden kill switch to make the unit inoperatable if need be ;D. Your info sounds good to me and it actually makes real world sense. I can use that switch somewhere else now.nq

[reScuE_RanGEr]

Hey,
MROCP 'tickets' are easy to come by these days. The Marine Rescue group I am a part of here at Southport offer the course free for members over a couple of Thursday nights. The punters only pay the ACA for the exam fee. Its always good to have it as you never know when you might be able to help out someone else in distress because you know the correct procedures. ;)

[Kerry]

Baldy,

Qld (as such) has no jurisdiction as communications is a comonwealth responsibility but yes maybe the authorities might look favourable if one used a VHF without a license in an emergency BUT if that use was to cause issues by say interfering with an emergency then the authorities have the law completely on their side and they or any user could use that law and that law could see one in jail for 2 years, that is the law.

But then why it is such a big deal for people who use VHF to be reluctant to obtain the necessary qualifications, for their own benefit as well as other users and especially the other users.

As for the bit about fitting a VHF etc etc etc well that's not exactly the case as a class license stipulates that the operator must be qualified, so if the operator is not qualified then they are operating (even if not using the radio) illegally with regards the class licence conditions, which is a breach of the class licence and is therefore an offence, there's no ifs or buts it is simply an offence under the terms of a class licence.

BUt the real question is? why are people so relucant to obtain an operators certificate, like it is in the interests of ALL users and not simply someone who thinks they can get away without one.

Cheers, Kerry.

[subzero]

Gidday Baldyhead, Kerry is 100% correct.

The Australian Comunications Authority state through the Officialy recognised Marine Radio Operators Handbook (Australian Maritime College, Office Maritime Comunications) that

This all from page 2 of the latest handbook.

Quote
1 Operators Qualifications
1.1 Australia is a member of the International Telecomunication Union (ITU). This body regulates radio frequency usage, and the operations and use of radiocomunications equipment on a world wide basis.
1.2 Operators of Ship Stations other than those operating exclusively in the 27mhz marine band, MUST POSSESS A CERTIFICATE OF PROFICIENCY, issued in accordance with ITU regulations and Australian Radiocommunication ACT 1992, or a certificate considered to be an equivalent or higher standard. The minimum requirements for operators on vessels other than those subject to the Commonwealth Navigation Act 1912 are

VHF marine radiotelephony ONLY (with or without digital selective calling facilities)
. Restricted Radiotelephone Operators Certificate of proficiency OR
. 3rd Class Comercial Operators Certificate of Proficiency OR
. Marine Radio Operators Certificate of Proficiency OR
. Marine Radio Operators VHF Certificate of Proficiency.

Now as for comon sense, no prosecutions, etc, you are right, the Police are not interested 1 iota if people are using the sets sensibly etc, especially if it helps to resolve or shorten any emergency situation....

Now if you want to get all technical, in an emergency, it is illegal for anyone WHO IS NOT LICENCED to operate that radio unless their is licenced radio operator on that vessel to oversee the non licenced person, and they must be capable and competant to oversee them also... not passed out on the floor pissed or dead.... it is no different than a car, if you are overseeing or teaching someone to drive, you must be in a condition to do so, but once again, if your 10 year old kid drove you to hospital in your car with you in the back dead from a heart attack, that is still illegal, BUT who is going to prosecute, no one..... laws are not written with what ifs, or buts, or maybes, they are clearly defined and must have cut of points. Those cut off points allow for prosecutions to stop people doing the wrong thing.

Sandman, irrespective of WHERE YOU ARE IN THE WORLD, let alone Australia, protocol word for word is the same.... (Mayday, Pan Pan, Securittee), the correct proceedures may or may not be maintained via communications depending on the level of skill and calmness under a very stressfull situation when the sh*t is full on hitting the fan... sometimes IT CAN get very confusing and although as an instructor I cant recomend it, sometimes radio proceedures might be put better to one side if the party on the other end isnt up with the play... these things ARE SPELT OUT so as to avoid confusion in a situation where time to get the information may be short, dealing with people who do not understand basic radio protocol CAN delay valuable assistance by not putting out CORRECT calls, correct information, reverse calling, inacurate details, knowing when or when not to transmit, what channel to use effectively, the list gos on and on...
One other interesting technicality, Mayday or Pan Pans can only be put out under the Authority of the master of the vessel.... You get knocked out by the swinging boom on your yacht and the 10 year old boy puts out a Pan Pan call for help, he is only 10, but you are incompacitated, he AUTOMATICALY becomes the Master of the vessel, but wait, he cant get his certificate untill he is 16 years old, you are know longer able to oversee his control of the equipment, he can decide to make the call, but then he cant actually do it... confused.... hell, who really cares... the kid should make the call, no one WILL EVER, get into trouble if they do it in good faith.... wether its right, wrong, legal or illegal
I tell just about all my classes I dont really give a fat rats arse wether they sit tyheir licence or not, what I am interested in is that people know how to use their sets efficiently...
Hope the info helps....
Conclusion... Radio Inspector or not, HE IS WRONG ABOUT THE LEGALITYS... right about who cares, and who is going to prosecute...

Cheers Lloyd
P.s
NB 1
Perhaps he was referring to the fact that VHF sets fall under a class licence and dont need to be otherwise licenced
NB 2
Just for the legal beagles out there, when ever I refer to licenced with radios I am actually meaning certificates, in my books still a licence, it comes in licence form with your picky on it ;D

[subzero]

You aint gonna growl at me again Kerry for saying I dont care if they get the certificate or not are you? ::) ;D
To hold the official paperwork is obviously preferred but by the same token it's more important TO ME, that they know enough to get out of trouble and not further in to it. ;)

What surprises me is that with the close to 100 odd people I have put through the 12 or so courses I have done, I cant ever recall a person coming allong for a free cuppa and a listen, WITH NO TEST AND ABSOLUTELY NO COST, just solely to learn to do the right thing who only own 27meg.... The people who spend the extra dough for the VHF are normally quite happy to come and pay for the TEST itself, yet the people who operate 27mhz, because a certificate IS NOT required just dont bother..I cant remember even 1 person saying to me im doing it but I arent getting a VHF set.. hell they sink too, their kids fall over the side, they get lost, they get sick, they breakdown in MY OPINION, all people with 27meg or VHF should be made to do a course, they are free in a lot of cases, what is the hardship, just a bit of time and study... I dont think that the certificate as such is the important thing, its the knowledge and MOTIVATION to do the right thing....
And yes I am really speaking from a Metroploitan perspective, it would indeed be harder to get someone to teach in the further out of the way places... if their was a need, a person could apply to the OMC to be an invigillator at Ayers Rock (A person who oversees the test itself), anyone with a few clues could train or you could even self learn through online sources if you couldnt afford to buy the book...
http://www.amcom.amc.edu.au/handbook/index.html
Cheers Lloyd

[Morlers]

I've got my MROCP certificate (VHF & HF) shortly after fitting a VHF unit in my boat. The local VMR run regular courses. It only cost $68.50 from memory ($30 for the manual and $38.50 for the exam -both costs to Aust Maritime college who oversee the courses -VMR charge nothing) and ran over 4 Wednesday nights for tuition and 1 for the test.

Personally, I find it hard to understand the reluctance to get the certificate and associated training/knowledge. After all, as a boating novice I try to get as much information as I can. I've got the boat so I read the maintenance manual, boating magazines, etc. I've got my fishing equipment so I read fishing mags and books. I see the radio course as just another source of information. That's why I love this site as I can gleen much needed information about my favourite pastime from others with a great deal of experience.

Happy boating

:) :)

Morlers

[subzero]

Good on ya Morlers :)

[baldyhead]

Guys just for the record there is no reluctance on my part to get the certificate, just that I have to wait till the Coast Guard here gets a course up and running or to find someone who is willing to run a course in Cairns. Some members of our club went to mossman a few months ago and sat the course over a w/end but @ that time I never thought that I would ever get a VHF. The bloke running that course needs numbers to run another so if anyones interested in Cairns get in touch with me via PM and we can organise something.
cheers baldy

[Kerry]

Subzero, me growl :o nah but knowing it is one thing and the paper work another and unfortunealtey in todays world with competence based training, the knowledge doesn't cover ya ar..

But I do know where your coming from and especially with the 27mHZ stuff and I've never really seen much difference either between operating a 27mHZ radio v VHF.

Maybe marine insurance should have a competency based reduction scheme in the premiums as say somebody who holds acredited "qualifications" (and keeps them up to date) for things like CPR, First aid, boating skills over and above simply getting a boat license, radio proficiency etc.

Yeah official qualifications in many cases may not mean much anyway as to if a person is actually "proficient" or not but like all other things there has to be some standards.

Nothing to do with radio but know of a guy who had to get his chainsaw proficency, you know official like for work/insurance related stuff. The "instructor" failed him ::) even though the guy had sawed all his life, had competed througout the world for many years holding 3 world chainsaw titles. makes ya wonder doesn't it?

Baldy, the issue with numbers is fairly common in many places as the best some places manage is take names and when enough interest run the course. In some places one can be old and grey before that happens.

Maybe with the new boat license, radio proficiency should be included as a matter of course, regardless if one has a radio fitted to their own boat or not.


Cheers, Kerry.

[NQCairns]

Baldy the radio club of Cairns (I think) has or does run them, this was a year or so ago. nq

[Sandman]

Thanks for clearing that up Loyde ;D I certainly will be going to get my cert when i get the time.
I guess its a rather open topic when it comes to policing such use of the VHF and perhaps if it is an issue ( and it appears to be) It would be wise if it became part of boating licences !!
Anyway your comments are very clear and ones i agree with and safety is the key issue , i continue to use mine and will do as long as i use my boat.
Regards
Sandman

[DR]

i am in the middle of one of Lloyds courses at the moment, i don't own a vhf only a 27 meg which has only been turned on about 10 times in the last 4 years. i am doing it with purely out of interest in radio procedure. i have to admit to not knowing a real lot about vhf & the course is interesting. if you own a vhf, i would recommend the course, even if you don't get the certificate (fail) purely for the basic knowledge of procedure.