anchors

[Black_Jack]

I have been after a new plough anchor for my boat

from three different people i was recommended 3 differnet sizes 25lb 20lb and 15 lb.

I have a Allison vision 195.

i was told rule of thumb 1lb per foot for a correct weighted plough anchor????

Therefore I ended up buying a 20lb plough anchour

Looks the right size on the boat

is this about the right size????

[Kerry]

Bigger is always better, don;t they say ;)

Simply the anchor by itself really doesn't do a great deal as the length/size of chain behind it has a controlling factor in the boat staying or not staying where it's put.

I would have thought a 20lb plough was more than enough for a boat that length/weight especially with a good length of chain behind it.


Cheers, Kerry.

[subzero]

Check out this site for weights etc, it is in feet, 1bs etc but you can convert it easily enough using this download at our secondary website for free, its very handy and from memory is under 400kb's converts knots, km etc, click on conversion calculator... http://www.vmraq.org.au/org.asp?oid=240

Anchors
http://www.brownmarine.com/BOAT_ED04.htm
I am with Kerry, larger will normally be better as long as it doesnt become unmanageable (Opinion only, I have no in depth knowledge on this subject at all)
Cheers Lloyd

[oscar]

Had a 20lb plough on a 28 footer and have been in a blow at Horse Shoe Bay and the Bedroom, where in both cases, boats have ended up on the beach while we didn't drag at all. It's a great feeling to know your anchor will hold. 20lb may be a little large for your boat but in a storm you would be very thankful for the extra size.
Regards
Len

[Volvo]

Black_Jack, i use a 15lb plough for anchorin up adjascent to Wrecks and i'm thinkin it's more than enough..20 ft Tinny and its hardly ever dragged too far...
use the Plough for the harder sandy , muddy bottoms and the Mooloolaba Pick for reefy areas..
As Kerry sez, right amount of chain for length of boat...
Watch the size of anchor especially if your using the float retreival method, mainly so you can see the float when it pops outa the water ey..
Float can only lift n hold so much..
Cheers

[Black_Jack]

Thanks for your input

It sounds as if i could have bought the 15lb, i use about 8 metres of chain.

My boat weighs approx 1800kg and i went for the 20lb to be on the safe side

Geoff

[Volvo]

:)They say meter of chain per meter of boat, n i go by that advice meself n have no probs ey..
cheers

[Kerry]

Geoff, What you've got probably isn't going to let you down but then in some country even an 80lb plough might dance along the bottom.

At some point in getting the thing back into the boat the whole weight of anchor and chain is mid water column and without mechanical assist it's pure elbow grease all the way to the top.

Also short link chain will give a bit more weight. If I had the choice between a 15lb plough / 10 metres chain or 20 lb plough and 6 metres of chain (all short link something like AT LEAST 5/16") then I'd opt for the longer chain and the 15lb pick, but that's just my thoughts.

It's your boat and you have to be the one comfortable and feel good when it's anchored up.


Cheers, Kerry.

[Pwoida]

When anchoring overnight, under what circumstances would you use a stern anchor?

Cheers,

Peter.

[mini696]

When anchoring overnight, under what circumstances would you use a stern anchor?

Cheers,

Peter.


I use one almost everytime. It may be a pain to get perfect but I believe it gives a better ride, and peace of mind. If swinging isnt a problem you might get away with it.

Without one, there is a chance it may twist out when the tide changes. Never happened to me yet, even when I didn't use a stern anchor.

Mick

Mick

[Cheech]

Firstly, I am no expert in anything, but that does not stop me commenting #::)

I almost always just use a reef pick. Even in sand, I find it digs in and holds. The trick though like some have mentioned is to have a lot of chain. It really is the chain that gives the anchor holding power (in my totally unqualified opinion). If you are in deep water, you may even find an anchor assist float will struggle to get your anchor up if your anchor is very heavy. Sure would not want to do it by hand.

As for a stern anchor, I would be wary. When ever I use a stern anchor, as you sometimes have to anchoring on a beach (like at tangas) it really seems to load up and stress everything. I much prefer to have the boat swing on the pick when I anchor at night.

[subzero]

Mini696, hate your Avatar, reminds me of a Toy Poodle my Mother had when I was growing up, never used to leave me alone :o, I am being phsycologicly abused every time I see it, cant sleep at nights worrying it is gona jump on me in my sleep :'( ;) ;D
Can you help an old digger out and change it ? (Now where can I find an old digger)
Cheers Lloyd

[Black_Jack]

After all this i am going to change the anchor to a 15lb as i have enough short link chain to hold it down. it will be alot easier to lift it back up into the boat.

Please talk about the stern anchor a bit more, especialy methods used.

[Kerry]

When anchoring overnight, under what circumstances would you use a stern anchor?

Under no circumstances would I use a stern anchor, day or night.

Cheers, Kerry.

[Volvo]

How about telling us where you plan to use the stern anchor and under what conditions??..
I'm near of the same opinion as Kerry in the use of stern anchors anywhere apart from River use and then i would only be using one if i was anchoring up adjascent or close by to the bank...Bay if one wants a stay at the beach or adjascent to an island:0..AND THEN!!! i would make sure my fore anchor was out deep with nose pointing in direction of casting/heading off and my stern anchor was buried in the beach or up on the bank..
Nose cops any wash from passing Boats, wavelets etc...
NO!!!! WAY would i be droppin an anchor out back of Boat outside!!! asking for trouble thats for sure..
Cheers

[Dignity]

Black Jack, I own an Allison 189 and bought a 15lb plough anchor with 10 metres short link chain (Kerry is spot on with this). Has not let me down but I did put in an anchor winch in as it takes a huge amount to lift. If you do want to put an anchor winch in give Col Allison a ring at the factory and he will make up a new reinforced hatch for you - mine cost $110 bit over a year ago. You can reinforce it yourself but if you happen to change winches or decide not to use one you still have the old hatch.

The other thing you have to watch is that not all ploughs are the same. The cheapies you can buy at Witworths, Galscraft etc will not hold as well as some of the dearer ones. It apparantly has something to do with the both the swivel point and the eye of the anchor itself. A mate of mine who owns trawlers changes his anchors every year due simply to the wear on the eye and he swears it makes a difference to how it holds. I guess it's his life on the line. No doubt others will disagree.

Cheers

Sam

[searaider]

Geday Dignity ( Sam ),
Being a proud owner of a Allison 195 Angler with an anchor & 8mtrs of chain that can be just lifted with a float , I'd be real interested in seeing some photo's of your winch & new hatch set up . ;)

Peter
Searaider 2 #

[Needmorerum]

How do the Plough anchors work? Are they a replacement for both the reef and sand anchor? Can they be set up to enable you to drive over them to get them up? Do you use them 100% of the time, or do you still need the reef anchor.
I often wonder how much stress I'm putting on the glass bow sprit when driving off to lift anchors.

Corry

[Kerry]

A plough is effectively a sand (mud) anchor with a bit more holding power than a danforth style for a bit less weight but one certainly wouldn't drop one on a reef, not unless you wanted to leave it there or not be wanting to go anywhere real quick. I certanly wouldn't be trying to drive over a plough, or any sand anchor for that matter.

On the reef stick to a reef pick or mooloolaba pick.

Cheers, Kerry.

[Black_Jack]

Dignity

Can you post some pictures of your winch / anchor setup.

Thanks

Geoff

[Dignity]

Blackjack, Searaider2, must be getting old. I actually have 195 Vision, just that have been have long discussions with a bloke at work about a 189. Will get some and post probably over the weekend.

[Dignity]

I often wonder how much stress I'm putting on the glass bow sprit when driving off to lift anchors.

Corry
Corry, if you are using a reef anchor, use a foam filled marker buoy to help you retrieve your anchor. The buoy takes a lot of the stress off your bow. As you drive off and the buoy travels down the line the boyancy of the buoy is the force that is being used to lift the pick from the reef. Forcing the buoy under water is probably a lot less force than some of the swell is putting on your bow.

Kerry, what is a mooloolaba pick?

[Kerry]

Mooloolaba pick? Where are you Volvo and your drawing?

Volvo did a sketch of one a little while ago, failing that i'll get a pic of one bur basically a shaft with 4 flat solid angled triangle plates welded on one end.

Cheers, Kerry.

[Volvo]

:)okeydokey's i'm here ;D, will upload a Pic of one when i get back to work as i have the files on my homedrive there, otherwise will try and take a pic over the next day of a bought one and post..
For Gladstonites, they do sell them at Gladsdtone Marina but just bought another one myself yesterday and cost me $54..last one was somewhere's around $30..And will go back to making my own from here on end...
Cheers

[Volvo]

Okay this is yesterdays buy, hope this'll do til i upload some measurements for yez:)..

[Black_Jack]

Dignity

with your previous post i assume your anchor winch sits on your anchor well lid. if so did you put extra fixings in to hold your lid down. Please also take some pics of this

thanks

Geoff

[searaider]

Dignity ,
Onya [smiley=2thumbsup.gif] I cant wait for the photos .

Peter
Searaider 2

[Dignity]

Dignity

with your previous post i assume your anchor winch sits on your anchor well lid. if so did you put extra fixings in to hold your lid down. Please also take some pics of this

thanks

Geoff

the lid is bolted down - I cut an inspection hatch inside the cabin but I have seen where the lid is split in half so that the anchor well could be accessed in case of jams etc but I figured it was quicker to get to from inside.





Dignity ,
Onya #[smiley=2thumbsup.gif] #I cant wait for the photos .

Peter
Searaider 2


Will do - was hoping to do the photos last night but got caught up in the the sh1tty little storm that went through Boonah last night (I'm on call at the moment). Having a work Happy Hour (shifted my on call to a tee totaller for the night) so will get some photos tomorrow whenI get up.

What is with this weather - great during the week and blows up over the weekend.

Volvo, thanks for the pics, recall seeing this before. I gather the chain is zippy tied to the eye on the shank. Do you use a particluar size tie. If the tie breaks during heavier seas does the anchor let go or does it still hold?

Sam

[Kerry]

....I gather the chain is zippy tied to the eye on the shank. Do you use a particluar size tie. If the tie breaks during heavier seas does the anchor let go or does it still hold?....

These anchors (and anchors for that matter) set up with zip ties, breakaways, sliprings aren't something that one would put any confidence in if not on the vessel. Seen way too many boats with anchors ar.. about face going the wrong way.

But where one might use a pick like this (in place of a conventional reef pick / Kellick etc) the setup can safe getting hung up as these things do hang on in the right type of bottom.

Actually it doesn't take a very big mooloolaba pick compared to conventional/comparative reef anchors to hold quite large boats (50-60 foot mark) on bottom where one would not dare drop a plough and a conventional kellick would skate all over the bottom.

The flexibility in the design is that weight can be included by the size of the shaft, while still maintaining an easily to handle and store overall shape/size.

Cheers, Kerry.

[Dignity]

Thanks Kerry, I sometimes have trouble holding on bottoms that have a fair bit of weed on them. It looks like this might do the trick. One thing I did find with the reef picks was that the store bought ones were generally useless and that having 5 or 6 tynes improved the holding power significantly. So ususally made my own.

My main concern is the damage a reef pick does when trying to pick it up. Has there been any tests done on the mooloolaba anchor to see if it reduces damage to the reef structure.

Sam

[Kerry]

Sam, tests on damage? dunno but probably not a lot in it between a pronged reef pick and these but might depend on exactly what the reef type was and the affect and length of chain. On reef proper I'd still use a kellick.

Cheers, Kerry.

[Volvo]

Dignity, will chase up the size no. of cable tie in that Pic. As for letting go in Rough seas??, havent had it happen so far but if i suspect the weather to come up whilst overnighting it i either add another cabletie or change over to a Plough Anchor...
As for damage done to reef with these Picks??, at guess ide say there would be more damage done via conventional Reef Picks than these if any??..
Cheers

[Volvo]

:)Quiet Happy with these picks n beats bending over prongs n gettin a hernia in the process i can tell ya lol..
Never go back to the conventional prong type of pick ever!! ;).
Cheers

[Dignity]

Volvo, sounds like a good idea, my deckie doesn't like the job of bending the reef pick either. Sam

[Dignity]

here is the anchor well - I will probably redo the well as I found afterwards that I didn't pposition the winch over the deepest part of the well - sh1t happens after a big night out

repositioned the bollard to one side, could actually use 2 existing bolt holes - still need it as when at anchor if using a rope/chain combination the rope can slip

btw - you will need to upgrade the rope to at least 12 mm or preferably 14mm

I had some self adhesive tread which I put on the spit to stop the chain marjing the fibreglass - you can get it at any boat shop or even the hardware

used ss machine screws to bolt the lid down - don't need to many - I have seen where the lid is split in half with part bolted the other hinge for access.

[Dignity]

I put a hatch inside to access the winch in case it jams or even to air it out

[Dignity]

view into well

[Dignity]

I used marine ply which I shaped to a close profile - good belt sander is handy and then used expanding foam to set it in place and sealed the ply, too lazy too fiberglass over it.

[Volvo]

Dignity, cant fess i'm an expert on anchor winches but can spot a problemo allready if you plan to use all chain and that being is, whats gunna take the strain of your chain whilst on the Pick??..
Have see where's they have these claw like hand thinies ??? on the end of a piece of chain bolted up front which slip over the chain whilst anchor is out and taking the strain???....
Cheers

[Dignity]

volvo - I use only 10 metres short link chain and the rest is rope - most winches these days take both

Sam

Edit - that is why I left the bollard but moved it sideways - haven't looked at using the claw like thingies as I always anchor with all the chain out

[Dignity]

Volvo, if you are looking to get an electric winch make sure you get one that has a free fall clutch as some don't have that feature.

Sam

[Black_Jack]

Dignity, cant fess i'm an expert on anchor winches but can spot a problemo allready if you plan to use all chain and that being is, whats gunna take the strain of your chain whilst on the Pick??..
Have see where's they have these claw like hand thinies ??? on the end of a piece of chain bolted up front which slip over the chain whilst anchor is out and taking the strain???....
Cheers
Volvo
You could use one of those split bollards with the locking pins to hold the chain.

[searaider]

Dignity ,
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM , very interisting .
Top photos , looks like a good set up .
Does the chain or rope jam very often & how much rope are toy running ? In mine I usually have 8mtrs of chain & 150mtrs of 12mm rope . At least Col fits a desent size anchor well .

Peter
Searaider 2

[Kerry]

I'd be sleeping a lot better at night also if there was something to take the weight/strain and not put it all back and rely on the winch mechanism attached to an ex anchor hatch with a few bolts holding it down.

Cheers, Kerry.

[Dignity]

Kerry, I tie off on the bollard whether I'm inshore or offshore. #There is never any strain on the winch (it's in the manual - only read it because it was 2 pages long). #When using rope you need to anyway as the rope can/will slip in the winch itself if there is a fair bit of swell running. #Where the bollard sits, there is a block of timber fibreglassed to the top deck to take the weight. #The bollard was originally there and took all the weight previously, all I have done is moved it sideways 50 mm. #The hatch itself is now 18mm structural ply and the original cover is pure window dressing. #Talked to a few engineers at work and they said that I didn't even need the bolts I put in towards the front of the hatch, only needed them at the rear and one side. #Also found the retrieval rates quoted with most winches are a lot slower than quoted. #Offshore I usually have a good idea how much rope I am going to need and usually pull off at home as much as I need.I have a bin in the cockpit where I store the rope, chain and anchor while I am motoring around offshore as I have always dropped and retrieved the anchor from there. #

Searaider2, very rarely get a jam but is easily cleared via the hatch. #I run 10 metres 6mm shortling chain with 120metres 12mm rope although I am going to upgrade to 14mm as the winch will work better. #The mistake I made was not placing the winch higher up over the deepest part of the well. #

The only other change you might need to make is a new bow sprit roller to accept a plough anchor shaft. #I will be changing mine as it currently is a very tight fit but I need to modify the boat cover if I do and that is intefering with my boating. edit - and so its the current weather.

[baldyhead]

The pro trout and mackerel fishers who I know as well as quite a few charter blokes including Toddy from AquaCat all use plow anchors as their standard for every day/bottom, tripped to pull out backwards. I and a few of my M8s also use plows for everything too. Only once have I had a major problem getting it back thru no fault of the plow. The chain had done a loop around a chunk of coral with the wind change. I use heavy cable ties but my pro mates use heavy mono and tie around the shaft and @ the eye. I have not experienced a break off under normal anchoring conditions and consider the humble plow a versatile anchor for most bottoms....cheers baldy

[Kerry]

Talking about anchors and what size plough for a 20 foot boat and how much chain etc etc how about this one, sticks and stones, bigger anchor then add bigger rock
http://www.cqnet.com.au/~user/mattk/images\indo_anc.jpg

what was on the other end
http://www.cqnet.com.au/~user/mattk/images\indo_boat.jpg

Cheers, Kerry.

[Dignity]

Kerry, have used the humle half brick myself - for a marker buoy though. Wher was this pic taken?

Sam

[Kerry]

Sam, East coast of Kalimantan (Borneo), Indonesia.

Cheers, Kerry.