tell tale on hose - not working?

[cooky]

Heh - just went to run my motor - hasn't been run for 2 weeks - nothing but a tiny bit of smoke coming out of the telltale hole. Connected to hose as usual.

The motor alarm did sound so I turned motor off.

Any solutions - anything else i could check?

I ran for 1-2 minutes max, but no water coming out of telltale.

MERC 115 2 stroke 2001 model

[Big_Kev]

First step is to pull the box off the leg and check the impellor in the water pump.
By what you say it is not pumping water and may be Rxxted.
It doesn't cost to have a look.

[Big_Kev]

Check the hose from the block to the outlet is not blocked as well.

[cooky]

pull the box off the leg and check the impellor in the water pump
being new to boating and boat motors - is this difficult? what is the 'box'?

should I check the hose first? I'm assuming it's easier.

It's been about 30-40 hrs since major service (5 months) - I have managed to chew a fair bit of sand - so maybe impellor is f**ked

[nonibbles]

rtfm! #Most motors simply require detatching the shift pin linkage then undoing the bolts on the lower end (foot). #If either the first or second sentence are too hard get a small engine mechanic to take a look if a marine specialist is unavailable. I think the guy who hires the boats in Horseshoe Bay does his own motors you may want to ask him. Otherwise, Clymer workshop manuals are about $90 each these are basically equivalent to the gregory's guides you can buy for your car you get them from boatbooks.com.au wiegh it up. It'll cost you at least $90 in labour. But I think you're up for at least an impellor so you may as well take it in to nearest marine dealer anyway.

[dfox]

Muffs sometimes dont get enough water into the impellor, try submerging the entire leg in water, use a wheelie bin if you have too. Only run it for a minute if it still dosent pump get it checked out, it maybe as simple as a hornets nest...foxy

[Sportfish_5]

make sure you dont just have a blockage in the tell tale hole first.

[cooky]

hornets nest - funny you say that - there was a dead hornet in the engine well (I don't see too many of them around). I have stuck wire up the telltale hole and didn't clear.


Muffs sometimes dont get enough water into the impellor

it;s always worked before, but this is the first time I've added another hose to my current hose (very long) - maybe the water flow wasn't enough.

I'll check the tell tale hose. Warm to hot water drained from the holes in bottom leg for awhile - so I'm assuming the water was getting in somewhere.

[noluck]

mate if u can get air compresor and blow some air in tell tale
worked foe me onse

[Spaniard_King]

Cooky,

don't get too exited, dfox is probably correct. Some engines don't like running on the hose. Before you go pulling her apart drag it down to a boat ramp and try her in the water. The gearbox needs to be submerged. If this fails you should then have the impellor inspected.

Garry

[mako_5.2]

Use your short hose . The longer the hose the more pressure drop. This could definately do it.

[Tony_N]

I'm with Reel_Hard and No_Luck. To properly clean that hose you will need to take your engine cowl off and maybe undo a couple of hose clips (?)

I put the foot of my outboard into the mud one day (actually 3 times - trying to collect crab traps on low tide). The compressed air worked a treat on the wet mud. You might have to work a bit harder on a (dry) mud wasps nest if thats the problem.

[Kerry]

Too right hoses aren't all that bright for flushing outboards but as long as one doesn't rev the inards out of them then there usually isn't too many problems. The worse thing to do is run more than idle revs as most town pressure simply can't provide the amount of water an outboard can pump.

Then again sand was never an outboards best friend either, now that's a real gastly stuff to go and play in with any outboard [smiley=thumbsdown.gif]

Bugs can be a problem building nests in the telltale and a bit of grease smeared over the outlet generally sorts these little bastards out.

But then any outboard that has sat for a period (even 2 weeks) especially in hot weather can do all sorts of things to (dry) rubber thingies like impellors.

Expecting to connect a hose then immediately fire an outboard up is generally asking for trouble. Connect the hose and let it run for a few minutes (stuff the water restrictions) and for a motor that has sat for some time (even a few weeks) lift the cowl, remove the flywheel cover and slowly turn the motor over by hand a few turns, get to know your engine, get to know it's feel, treat it like something important [smiley=love.gif], something that is expected to bring one home each and everytime instead of the ''she'll be right' approach that many appear to adopt.

Turning a standing motor over by hand at least might break any attraction the impellor has with the case instead of giving things a big hurry up with the electric rope.

But if the over heat alarm sounded then this has absolutely nothing to do with the telltale, hornets or things like that as all these things come after the engine an obviously if the engine overheats then the issue is before the engine.

Cheers, Kerry.

[Lucky_Phill]

mmmmm all sorts of advice here.

I had a overheating problem with a 2 stroke. 1st thing I did was remove the thermostate. Found this to be blocked with sand/ shale. Also in the Thermo housing, is small holes for the water to run thru. These were almost fully blocked as well. A large sewing needle fixed them. Further, any joins in any water lines are sure to be holding particles of sand.

YES, use a drum for flushing, or those new collaspable bags from the chanderly.

I don't if Kerry is right about treating it like something very important, because my motor gets hotter than her, and more often. Then again, it can be a cranky bugger.

Also, there is the part of the head, that the last telltale hose comes from, and usually that has sand etc, in that, so a piece of copper wire about 4 inches long will clear that.

Cheers Phill

[bay_firey]

I think Kerry hit the nail on the head.
"The overheat alarm sounded " so therefore no water is being circulated around the engine to cool it.
Cooky I think you may need to look further than the tell tale

[Cheech]

Read this thread with interest, because I recently added the double inlet muffs that dfox suggested. First use was about the same as pre double, and then yesterday after a long run to the banks, it took at least 30 - 40 seconds before water started coming out. Maybe longer as I was just about to shut it down. Engine was still warm as I flushed at the ramp as soon as I got in. So,, a little concerned.

I think I already know the answer. Get it serviced and get them to find the problem, if there is a problem.

But if anyone has any further comments, I would be grateful to hear.

Cheech

[cooky]

i don;t have time to f**k around or to look, so a call to the outboard mechanic will be in order - will let you know what he says - could just be water pressure, but we'll see. haven't had a chance to try the shorter hose yet, but won't have time most likely before next weekend - so will call him over to have a look - at least it'll be working when i next need it

[Kerry]

i don;t have time to f**k around or to look your becoming a worry cooky :-X

It's been about 30-40 hrs since major service (5 months) - I have managed to chew a fair bit of sand - so maybe impellor is f**ked

So do you know what they "actually" did at this major service (presume you paid for it so you should know what they did :-X), did they "actually" inspect the impellor, if so did they put it back in or did they "actually" replace it ????

Cheers, Kerry.

[cooky]

i'll check the report, but from memory they put a new impellor in - i think he even showed me the old one. new sparks, etc.

my marine mechanic is a Mobile marine mechanic- he comes highly rec by a few people i know (i've used him twice and he was very good). I'm pretty sure he's an honest guy and in tsv he can't afford to be dodgy - too small a place really for the bad word not to spread.


your becoming a worry cooky
Kerry - can't see how my time restrictions really 'worry you'. I have my own business with 2 kids under 18 months - my TIME is VERY restricted. How is being prepared to pay an expert (much more experienced and qualified than I) to have a look at it "a worry".

I'd love to have the time to check it out myself - always like an excuse to have a play with tools, but realistically I can see me not having a chance during the week and the only time I can free from family on the weekend - i'd prefer to be out in the boat rather than fixing it.

Are you worried that I pay someone to service the car. OR clean the house, mow the yard, etc. Outsource duties so you have more time to enjoy life rather than preparing for it.

[cooky]

well i haven't had a chance to organise the mechanic to have a look and I wouldn't mind going out this weekend - however realise there may be a small chance of this happening.

I tried motor again with short hose and pressure and did same (didn't have on long enough for overheat alarm to come on though - gave it about 20/30 secs).

Is it possible to change impellor yourself without too much difficulty? couple of mates with some know how - how long would it take?

Might not be the problem, but I guess it's that or water pump - or something clogged up somewhere.

I personally think impellor.

[cooky]

The worse thing to do is run more than idle revs as most town pressure simply can't provide the amount of water an outboard can pump.

i have run at around 2000rpm previously for a few minutes (3 times) because I was told that this heats the motor up enough to get the thermostat working, etc.

In this case - could it be impellor? I have revved it a few times as well. maybe not enough water and impellor's just given up.

[Spaniard_King]

What engine have you got Cooky??

Garry

[Spaniard_King]

OOPs just seen 115hp merc, I think you need to get some one who knows what there doin to help or do the job

Garry

[cooky]

yep thought that might be the answer - my father in-law has maintained and fixed his own outboards for over 30yrs - including smaller honda 4 strokes, but maybe I should just wait a few weeks. My marine mechanic is booked out for almost a month.

[familyman]

Cooky using a hose however short or long is misleading as mains pressure can be up to 550kpa(75 psi) in some areas and this much pressure will make any impeller look good.Because your alarm went off and the 'small puff of smoke' came out your motor is not getting any water or not enough to matter . :-[
Checking your impeller is not hard but requires patience and caution for the inexperienced.My brother in law pays an expert for everything and is proud of it-horses for courses.Dont worry about what other people think-they will not pay your bills if you cock it up >:(

[Kerry]

Cooky, Stay home, get someone who knows what they are doing to look at it.

As for domestic town pressure, anybody who believes town pressure is enough for an outboard better stay home as well, they are probably the ones who rev the guts out of an outboard on a sunday arvo and really think there's not a drama doing that [smiley=thumbsdown.gif]

Cheers, Kerry.

[familyman]

In my area I do work for the local council and beleive me the water pressure can get to 70-75psi.Mind you this does not equal high flow rate as that is a function of csa of the pipe/hose.All i was meaning is that the impeller may be stuffed and the hose pressure can hide that fact.I would say that the problem lies deeper or that the hose is not moving enough water-again as others have said get someone to look at it and watch and learn ;D
Anyway good luck and post the results
cheers jon

[Big_Kev]

Cooky have you poked a bit of wire or something up the tell tale hole yet to see if it is not just blocked with some grit.
I had to do this to mine on the weekend to clear it.
Cheers Kev. ;)

[basserman]

ok then heres a question for those that say flushing with a hose is no good
then why do the motor makers design the motors to be flushed this way and not warn people that they better find a big drum to lower their beloverd 115 into and flush ???

[aido]

here's what mercury says about it...

1. Install Quicksilver Flushing Attachment 44357A2 (or equivalent tool) on the gear
housing from the FRONT side, positioning the rubber cups over the water intake
openings.
2. Connect hose [1/2 in. (12.7 mm) I.D. or larger] between flushing attachment and water
tap.
IMPORTANT: To prevent water pump damage, do not start or run engine unless
cooling water is flowing.
3. With the outboard in the normal operating position (vertical), partially open water tap
(IT IS NOT NECESSARY to use full water pressure) and adjust water flow so that
there is a significant water loss around the rubber cups.
4. Start engine and idle in NEUTRAL. Increase engine speed, not to exceed 2500 RPM.
5. Flush or service engine as required. Verify adequate cooling water is provided.
6. Water must be discharged thru “tell tale.”
IMPORTANT: Prevent engine overheating. If water flow is insufficient, stop engine
and determine cause before continuing.
7. Flush until discharge water is clear. In saltwater areas, run outboard 3 to 5 minutes.
8. Stop engine before turning off water.
9. Stop engine, turn water off and remove flushing attachment from gear housing.
IMPORTANT: While and after flushing, keep outboard in upright position until all
water has drained from drive shaft housing to prevent water from entering the powerhead
via drive shaft housing and exhaust ports.

[blaze]

Hi Cooky
I dug a bloody trench on tuesday with my 115 merc about 15 foot long, hit a sand bar at 4000rpms, shined the prop up and scared the crap outa me but certainly has not cause any impellor problems. the 115 have quite a large impellor. It will take about 10 minutes to drop the leg off, 5 bolts to undo, then there is another 4 that hold the impellor top cover on.
need any more info pm me
cheers
blaze

[Kerry]

Aido, How the hell would any outboard manufacturer actually know (that is actually know) the pressure and supply some domestic water supplies are like, some are totally inadequate and certainly less than most motors can pump at 2500 rpm, what a horrid thought to run and outboard at 2500 on a hose ::) I suppose it might help sales ;D

Not necessary to use full pressure :o well I suppose that all depends on what full pressure is, doesn't it :-X

Cheers, Kerry.

[aido]

fully agree with you kerry.
i doubt the leg 'water tower' would be
full for long. thinking of the guys with
funny looking paint problems around the leg here.

[Kerry]

Yeah Aido, I don't know one outboard mechanic that would actually "recommend" running on muffs and town pressure but in many cases there simply no alternative and but if one is going to run on a hose then it has to be all the pressure there is and certainly nothing above idle and for those that didn't understand that nothing above idle.

Cheers, Kerry.

[cooky]

thanks KErry - I'll make sure i don't go above idle in future. as i said - i've been sitting it on around 2000rpm (above idle) for a few minutes each time.

I do have good water pressure, but I might look into a drum of some sort.

[Kerry]

Cooky, It takes an awfully big drum and an awfull lot of water for most outboards and in many cases simply isn't practical.

The worst thing to do to an outboard after a long crappy run is shut the engine down, let it idle, let it clear the (injested) water and give the oil time to settle.

Similar with running on a hose (for reasons apart from water pressure), nothing above idle as the whole idea is to let any lubricating oil settle "IN" the motor (yours being a 2S) not blown out the exhaust.

Cheers, Kerry.

[Jeremy]

I have recently aquired a large drum - about 250 litre - which I have cut in half to use for flushing my 40 2 stroke. Have only done this once so far, but all seemed fine. Certainly ran alot quieter than on muffs and the tell tale was alot stronger too. I guess it would take a big drum and alot of water for the larger outboards.

The drum cost me $20 from a drum recycler (someone here reccommended this a while back).

Jeremy

[Pwoida]

I had the exact same problem a while ago on an '88 140hp Johnson. Went to flush it after a trip and the alarm comes on. Checked the telltale, nothing. Poked wire up the telltale hole. Tried again. Same prob. Looked at my muffs. They were too loose. Bent them back in so they were tight on the leg. No problems after that.

[cooky]

definitely going to bend the muffs and try that.

Have spoken to a few people (including marine mechanics) and possible reasons have been:
- Muff too loose (can't have that can we guys :P)
- blockage somewhere
- sand in (before thermostat) - was told to look to see if any water coming out of propellor - if it is - this could be the answer. take thermo off and clean - put in hot water. can run motor for a few secs without thermo to push out crap
- R.S. impellor - most people said even a stuffed one should push a tiny bit of water - but experienced mechanic said not necessarily true.
- a friend had a similar thing happen to him in a creek - water intakes got completely jammed with sand/mud.

I plan to have a play with the thermo idea - run it for 30 secs - see if any water out prop area and take thermo off - you never know I might get out this weekend. If not, the marine mechanic can fit me in next week apparently. Knowing my luck the weather will turn to sh*t.

[cooky]

SUCCESS!!!

well finally able to free up an hour from wife / kids and have a look at last.

Combination of efforts - not exactly sure of solution - but most likely needed tighter muffs.

I squashed the muffs in vice so very tight fit. Cleaned out telltale with wire, but then used whipper snipper cord to stick as far as I could up the tube - salt crystals did come out.

Made sure I had good water pressure and good connection with muffs and everything worked as normal - yippee.

Just wish I had had some time earlier - would have liked to get out fishing the last couple days - better weather.

At least i was able to learn a lot more about boat motors through the process.