2nd hand NOOSA CATS What to look out for?

[youngfisho]

Trying to convince the old man to ditch his 5.25 m open tinny and get a serious offshore craft. Always complaining about being bashed about. And at 58 is finding the going tough. he usually takes my uncle out and he has had open heart surgery so his chest really feels the punding. I suggested he look at an 18 foot shark cat or newer noosa cat. Anyone have any suggestions as to what to look for in these boats as in faults.

he regularlly fishes 15 mile gutter off bundy and wants a craft that isn't going to pound and get him soaking wet.

[dfox]

Mate, theres a hell of alot of different designs in the 18ft shark and noosa cats, and many handle totally different to one another even with what seems minor changes in hull shapes. Earlier models from the bruce harris threw, contain timber and ply so dry rot is a possability. These earlier models dont carry the heavier 4strokes very well so dont buy one and expect to repower it with new engines.
Later models can be expensive so getting one at a good price is also a challange.
Watch for the condition of the trailer as these are often in poor nick.
The latest noosacats have no ply so a good inspection of the hull is all that is needed.
Second hand engines are a guessing game.
Most importantly take it for a run and see how it performs..good luck...foxy

[Kerry]

There are 18 foot Shark/Noosa cats and then there are 18 foor Shark/Noosa cats and some are very ordinary, some are wet, some have not much buoyancy in the bows and well there's quite a few different models in this range to choose from.

However I wouldn't be thinking that a 18 foot cat is going to be the end to being beat up, getting a thumping or not getting wet.

Cheers, Kerry.

[youngfisho]

Dad's boat is a side console arrangement and has no transom, just a splash well. Being relatively flat bottomed it tends to slap more than slice. So any hull with a good design that can at least take the edge of the pounding and has a cabin will at least help to reduce the amount of wind blown spray. The chines are also no very pronounced so a lot of the spray comes straight on board. Only reason I thought of a shark cat noosa cat hull design was because of their softness when compared to monohulls of similar length.


What cat do you own dfox?

what boat do you own Kerry?


What would be a reasonable hull in the 5.5 to 5.8 metre range mono or centre console

[dfox]

When it comes to offshore fishing im a cat person mate, had plate boats and although they were great the cat is even better,ive got a dominator but ive been in many different cats...foxy

[perko]

Youngfisho, I have had a few cats and monos and I think that you are on the right track to keep the old man fishing for a few more years buy getting into a cat. We have had a 5.2 kevlacat, 4.3 dominator, and currently have a 5.5 sailfish. They all have been good, but also all have been different. My dad has just bought a 5.2 noosa cat and my brother owns a 5 meter noosa cat sportsman. The 5.2 noosa cat is very soft, but a bit sensitive to trim and weight distributing. The 5 meter sportsman is soft and safe, but at idle takes a droopy nose stance which lets a few waves come over the windscreen when it is rough. Not ideal for trolling.
The kevlacat was a super boat and we would never have sold it if we had our time again. But we are more than happy with the Sailfish. It feels rock solid and gives a great ride. We feel very safe in it a long way from home. I would prefer to be in any of those 5m+ cats I have mentioned than any mono up to 6.5m. Plus they are pretty economical to run with twin 60-70hp motors. Tony.

[Kerry]

My hand is up for a Cat as well but I wouldn't like you to think that just because it's a Cat all the problems are fixed. However certainly a long way in front of any conventional but unfortuneately you'll have to pay a lot more.

Everything is bigger, totally and there is absolutely no comparison between a 5.25 open tinnie and a 5m KC and a 5m KC is going to be over the 2 tonne towing mark.

In that 5m mark if you are really serious about Cats as Perko mentions if you can find a good 5.2m KC with 60's/70's then you'll be about as best as you can do. Don't be expecting to fit/run 4S's on too many of the older smaller designs.

Cheers, Kerry.
# #

[out_there_2]

I've got a 5.2 kevla cat with 2 stroke 90's and as a sea boat can't fault it. It's a bit of a laugh watching a 20 foot mono try to keep up going into a bit of a sea. Only problem is it's a bit thirsty. Costs about 3 dollars a mile for fuel/oil. Watch the early 18 foot shark cat as I've chatted with 1 guy who was in one 18 mile out with a following sea (southwestly) and #it rolled over. He reckened it wasn't the only one to do it either. Never heard of the 5.2 kevlacat doing it though. Maybe get some thing with quite large foam filled pods and 4 strokes. Won't be cheap.

[snappa]

i would say the skipper was an ...... idiot :P

[boatboy50]

Guys,

The most vulnerable position for any cat hull is with the sea or swell on both stern quarters.

Ive heard of ALL brands of cats going over this way, even an original 23 sharkcat, and seen video footage of it happen in real life. Its the worst position for them, and when not driven well they will go over surprisingly easily.

The 5.2 Kevlacat is one of my all time favourite small boats.

Regards
Darren

[Kerry]

Darren, Which video footage are we talking about here ???

Well apart from sheer stupidity one of the not so desirables for a Cat in breaking seas is one motor down the worst situation is both motors down but then any vessel with no power in a breaking sea doesn't have much of a chance.

The most vulnerable position for any cat hull is with the sea or swell on both stern quarters. Now that's not quite correct, not on both stern quarters anyway. The most vulnerable is on the starboard quarter as the sea is acting in oppsoite to the port bow but anybody who is worth their salt with a Cat can control this and really isn't an issue. There is more room to control this with counter rotating motors as non counter motors (most small cats) has a tendency to roll the hull to port anyway and the sea on the starboard quarter has a tendency to lift the stern and the bow has the tendency to fall into the holes. There is an awfull lot of control using the outboard's trim to balance a Cat.

Cheers, Kerry.

[boatboy50]

Kerry,

The footage is very old. Its of a Coast Guard boat (Redcliffe maybe?) 23 Shark Cat rolled when one engine down, breaker approached and second engine wasnt enough. The footage was taken from a chopper many moons ago.

A driver with any cat knowledge can always stop the boat from getting into these situations.

Regards
Darren

[dfox]

Darren- there's a big misconception about cats that come from ilinformed individuals about cats getting rolled. Im not refering to you mate but many sea footage of a rolled cat and asume that due to its design there easily rolled. The facts are far different, most get rolled trying to rescue people in conditions that no boat should be placed in. I to have seen footage of such rescues and take notice next time and see what the craft is expected to handle...

[Kerry]

And as Foxy mentions it's not the design that's the issue but generally the conditions and generally conditions, which are really quite demanding and generally down right dangerous and way out of the league of many other designs. A cat goes over in these conditions and it's big news, if there wasn't a cat involved then there really wouldn't have been any news, nothing else would have tried it in the first place.

http://www.northpower.com.au/wrs/Nthpower.nsf/html/SeaRescue.html

Cheers, Kerry.

[viagra]

I own a noosa cat 5.2m & have owned a 5.6m shark cat & yes, the 5.6 like the 5m tend to dig the nose in at trolling speeds and take a fair bit of water over the bow. The 5.2 is very soft , keeps it's nose out of the water at trolling speed & is fairly reasonable to run with 70 yams, about 1km/lt. It will also porpoise a bit in glassy water unless trimmed out fully & doing over 4800rpm. I agree with boat boy that most cats don't like a large sea on either of the rear quaters more so on the starboard quater. I correct this to a certain degree by trimming one motor out further than the other & increasing revs on opposite motor. Cats take a bit of driving at times but i will never go back to a monno hull.

[boatboy50]

Guys,

The point i was trying to make was that even cats arent foolproof. Even the best boats (in my opinion the 23') can be rolled in certain circumstances.

Im not saying its a common occurence, more so that yes it can happen.

I too agree its more news because of the circumstances, but cats generally have very experienced skippers, and even they can get into trouble, imagine what an inexperienced person can do when they take their "bulletproof" boat into the rough.

Like the old saying of money cant buy brains, nor can a great boat be instantly unbreakable.

Regards
Darren

P.S. The boat in the footage survived the first breaker better than you would expect, but got rolled by the next one after being turned to run from the waves, and even then it surfed for a while first.

[Kerry]

....P.S. The boat in the footage survived the first breaker better than you would expect, but got rolled by the next one after being turned to run from the waves, and even then it surfed for a while first....

It was rolled simply because it had lost BOTH engines in one go on that first wave and without power it couldn't run anywhere but down hill.

Cheers, Kerry.

[reScuE_RanGEr]

Kerry do u eva agree with anyone else??? lol

Darren and I have been through the same training and have both seen the footage he spoke about a number of times and have both done rescues of other overturned vessels in white water. The superiority of a cat was proven not so long ago when a 25 Blackwatch rolled just outside the seaway. A large RIB was first on the scene to complete the rescue but was not able to get into a position safely to complete the rescue. Water Police showed up shortly after in their 7m cat and were able to get in where they were needed and pull the people out of the drink.

Engine failures aside, if driven correctly a cat is indestructible. Big statement? Yes. However having been out with maybe over 100 hundred different drivers at varying skill levels it takes significant time and training to reach the level of being a skiiled cat driver, of which Darren is one so his opinion is certainly valid.

Steve

[Kerry]

Kerry do u eva agree with anyone else??? lol

Steve, The point was that it wasn't an issue with being a Cat but the fact that it lost both engines (at once) and it makes absolutely no difference what type of hull it was, no power in that situation and one has some real problems, type of boat irrelvant.

A driver with any cat knowledge can always stop the boat from getting into these situations. And since you here I might also add that it wouldn't make 2 rats what type of cat knowledge a skipper had in that situation as the boat was really fine but the engines let the whole show down and unfortuneatley both stopped at once, not good but could a skipper stop that in that situation? but I don't believe that was a situation that was predicted, obviously possible to loose both but with both down one is completely at the mercy of the sea.

It doesn't occur often but maybe engines on boats that have to be put in this situation should have additional thought put into the intakes, much like some of the UK boats, which can completely go over, use reed switches to shutdown the engine/intakes when upside down, will self right, power up and start without much drama?

Cheers, Kerry.

As for agree well no the boat wasn't turned (as such) to run down the waves the damn thing was completely at the mercy of the waves, it was completely out of control with out engines down as if there was even the slightest amount of grunt from one engine then downhill was never ever the way to go.

[boatboy50]

Hey Guys,

Kerry, I do agree with what you are saying.

The footage i am thinking of is not the Pt Maquarie footage, and in it they did still have one engine after the first wave, but not nearly enough power to get out of the situation they were in.

My 1st post was mainly to kill the myth that the 18ft Sharkcats had a problem of rolling, because as we know, anything can be rolled by the right driver.

Regards
Darren

[Kerry]

Darren, yeah any boat can be rolled, even Blackwatch's ;D

The problem with 18 foot (or there abouts) SC's is that there were so damn many of them. Some were so light headed in the bow that a person standing on the front deck is almost enough to lift the props clear of the water and that's not a good trait. The other is injested water and "some" 18's were bad for doing this.

If most people could push a similar 18 footer the same as they might be able to push a 18SC then there is every possibility they would come unstuck quicker in a conventional hull well before the Cat. The one issue is that a conventional simply can't be pushed to the extent that a 18SC can.

Cheers, Kerry.

[knakers]

boatboy50 is right, I have operated a 3100 series noosacat for over 1000hrs in a charter operation and know the handling charcteristics of this hull well.
They can litterally go through almost any thing when its coming at the pointy end, but anything beam on or coming from aft they can be quite uncomfortable and almost scary. Feeling like they want to roll over is not the greatest experience and I know 1 particular skipper driving this vessel 2 years ago got in an unfortunate situation and actually had the life raft washed of the roof!

[boatboy50]

Hey,

Funny you should mention that. We also had the unfortunate situation with our current 8.0 metre where a wave ripped the liferaft clean off the hardtop roof. Naturally it inflated and had to be picked up again. Wsant me but must have been a fun situation!

Regards
Darren

[viagra]

knakers, after having operated the 3100 series for so long and despite it's bad points that you mentioned, is there any other boat you would have rather been in?

[knakers]

Well Termi I would say yes as I am looking at it from totally commercially viable point of view. i run 2 very different kind of charters and the owner does not want to part with the boat. It is powered by 225 yammies 4 strokers and pushing this particular boat even the 4 stokes are not very fuel efficient. For the fishing charters the boat does the job at a compromise. Just for bottom bashing its fine but for trolling the vision for the skipper is limited as it is a lockup wheelhouse design. You cannot watch you lures or baits which from a skippers point of view is frustrating.
The second charter is a sightseeing trip and we can only put a maximum of 12 guests on board. some oppostion compnies are running 35 ft rigid inflatables which carry 25 pax. They are running twin 225 4 stroke yammys and get better fuel efficientcy as well. So I guess the answer to your question is for the fishing trips i would rather be operating a diesel powered 30 odd ft gameboat for the economy and a large rigid inflateable for the other trips.
Dont get me wrong the cat can go almost any where and it just needs a bit of forthought on which heading you will be taking when going somewhere, Working the angles!!

[aido]

interesting footage of the accident for sure.
if you don't mind big video files, this 1.5mb
film of the us coast guard is interesting. ;D

http://users.tpg.com.au/adessaix/uscg.wmv

[SeaSaw]

:o :o :o :o :o

A new sport .... Boat surfing #;D

Looks like they did it on purpose too ... I have heard stories about the crazy training exercises they do with those US Coastguard boats.

Mark

[dazza]

awesome footage
how would the 680 go mark?
see you at the caloundra bar saturday morning, you go first ;D ;D, i will video your run
cheers
dazza

[SeaSaw]

Sorry Dazza .... busy Saturday morning #;) #but you start without me and I will catch up #;D #Invite Mackmauler. #I remember a post a while ago where Rob said he had already done this in the oceancylander on the south passage. :o #We need someone with experience to teach us on the first run #;D ;D

Mark