towing vehicle

[basserman]

ust wondering as i have always had 4WDs and trucks as my tow what would be ok to tow my SF17 southwind fiberglass cuddly cab that comes in at around 1.5T fully loaded
would a standerd holden or ford be up to the job or would i best stick to another 4WD the reson i'm asking is that i have sold my buisness and the truck will be getting sold however i'm wanting to keep as much money as i can for the next adventuer so i'm looking at the cheaper side of things like the old 4WD around $5000-$7000 or the same in the sedans ???

what are the things i need to look for or what i need like the trannie coolers and load spreaders ???

[seabug]

Hi Basserman,
4x4 can be handy on wet/slippery boatramps
Regards
Seabug

[billfisher]

Shouldn't be a problem, though Im suprised that rig weighs 1.5 tonnes. I wouldn't have thought it would be more than 1.2 T with smoe fuel and gear.

[phewy]

Ah I see...Basserman, alias "the bream". [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]
You have probably read my reply on the other site, so won't repeat here. :)

[troy]

basserman i recently sold my boat which was your size even a bit heavier.
my son used to tow it with a 1996 v 6 ford longreach ute.
did the job easy and we have to tow around 60 klms each way.
would struggle a bit at the ramp if wet but our ramps are very steep.
ideal set up would have been if it was auto as i have seem them pull out easy
troy

[basserman]

billfisher that is dead weight and at the upmost worst to be on the safe side ;)
phewy yes i have and thank you very much your makeing it alot easyer for me just one thing but with the cooler is there something that i can see on the car to know it has one or do i need to take the word of a used car salesman???
i have seen a few sedans with towballs on them already for the price i want however how would i also know if it was a heavey duty one???;D
troy yeh i'm thinking more along the ways of a sedan and i have seen other do it but not many around my neck of the woods as every second bloke has a fourby

[phewy]

Basserman...Just another small cooler bolted or strapped onto the front of the radiator. Remember that some newer modern cars do not need them, so would be best to contact manufacturer for details.
Don't muck around changing the suspension in the tow vehicle, better to fix the problem at hand and thats only when you are towing. If needed get a weight distribution hitch to spread the load back thru the car. Changing the rear suspension will not transfer the weight back to the front where its needed. You may not need anything, hook it up first to find out.
If it has a square shank tube out the back of the bar then it is a Hitch Receiver or Heavy Duty bar. Should have a plate attached to give you details about maker/load limits ect. Definitely the way to go for towing anything in this range. With this you are able to adjust the height for different rigs to be towed and you can add a weight distribution hitch later if needed. Most popular of course is the Hayman Reese. Go to their web site for a plethora of information - http://www.haymanreese.com.au/index.htm
Here is typical passenger car Hitch Receiver, note all the extra bracing

[billfisher]

Basserman,

I tow a slightly larger fiberglass boat (which weighs 1.25 T with a bit of fuel in the tank) and my AU11 Falcon handles it easily and I am not just talking about to the local boat ramp. I have towed it 600 km from Sydney to Southwest Rocks many times, doing 100 km/h on the straighter sections.

Two things you have to be careful of though is breaking in the wet and possible swaying at speed. I'd definitely go for an ABS equipped vehicle. If you have the right down weight on the towbar (7 - 10% of the rig weight), you should not get any swaying, though it is a good idea to get torsion bars fitted as well. You will need adjustable air shocks or heavy duty suspension at the rearas well to keep the ride height even.

[Morlers]

Hey Basserman

I tow a Haines Hunter 510 Breeze with my AU series 1 Falcon Futura and have no problems on the highway. All up weight of boat/motor/trailer with 120 ltr fuel is about 1400kg. Sometimes I slip on slippery ramps at low tide but just get the ol' girl to stand on the draw bar and its ok.

:) :)

Morlers

[basserman]

morlers is that with any enhancments of just a plain AU?
seems i only want to spend a few thousand i don't really want to go to great expensies thats why it will be a old 4WD or a better sedan that can do the job for anything up to $7000

[phewy]

Forgot to mention Basserman, we previously owned a early '90s 533 CruiseCraft (very heavy). We towed it with several cars including an XF Falcon, an ED Futura, an AUI Futura (all company cars) and existing car, a Pajero with 3l petrol efi engine. All cars were stock standard with no suspension or engine mods, just Hitch Receivers/Trannie coolers fitted. The AU was certainly the best to tow with, smooth as and heaps of power across the range. Used halve the petrol the 4wd used when towing with other benefits as well. If ever had a similar size boat again would never even consider a 4wd.

[troy]

basserman
for the money you wish to spend you will have no problems
any sedan whether holden or ford will do the job-i will put money on it.
troy

[Morlers]

Basserman, it is a standard setup with no oil cooler, level rides or sway bars. I regularly tow the boat to the local ramp some 15 klm away but also tow down to Hervey Bay and that is about 130 klm away. With car only I normally get around 11 klm/ltr (9ltr/100klm) on the hwy but towing the boat I drop to around 6 to 7klm/ltr (15 ltr/100klm).

On that basis I would suggest any late model falcon would do the job. Hope that helps

:) :)

Morlers

[nofrills]

hey basserman

ive towed nofrills,17ft plate centre con.with a v6 vp commodore for years.the only mods is the hayman reece towbar and a tranny cooler.the only important thing with the commodore [as the owners manual suggests]is to tow with the auto in drive not overdrive,or things get real hot ,oops ::)
never had swaying probs but the trailers dual axil.
cheers scott

[Needmorerum]

Agree with Scott above, if it is dual axle, will be alot easier on the car. I've got a Cruise Craft 575, and I reckon it is too heavy for a standard car. All the numbers say that a normal car can handle it, but I've only ever towed it with my Mother-in-Laws AU Falcon once and I will never do it again. I normally tow it with my 80 series Cruiser, and now I've got my 40 shorty, I tow it with it.
My recommendation would be, if you have no kids and don't need a back seat, get a 40 Series Cruiser Ute, if you need to accomodate kids, as I do, either go for a 40 Series Shorty, or for more comfort, go for a 60 Series Cruiser wagon.
Obviously, before I get hammered, this is my opinion only,

Corry

[phewy]

Your rig would have to be over 1.5t but Cory. 4WD definitely overkill for anything under. Falcons and Commodores, legally, which of course means safely as well, can tow approx 2.5T set up correctly. Here in Vic that is, dont know other states laws.

[skippa]

G'Day Basserman,

I've towed my SR17 from Sydney to Brisbane to Mission Beach (NQ) and back to Brissy, having no problems at all with the trusty V6 Commodore (2004). Launched and retreived in all sorts of ramps, some in some pretty low tides too with no problems either. I'd recomend the tranny cooler too.

Cheers,
Tony # 8)

[noluck]

basserman
mate any car wirh solid dif(rwd) will tow 1.5 t Falcons and Commodores, and mazda 929 v6 i did tow my boat about
1t with mazda 929 2l 1982 model no problem.
cheers No_luck

[basserman]

thanks to everyone who has replyed i now know what to look for and what to take into account when looking at a car
so i have now come to the conclusion that it will be either a stock 4WD or a holden ford sedan with a trannie cooler
as for the trailer it is a single axle but has been costom built and set up right as on sway and everything is beefed up on it so i shouldn't have any problems with it for a long time yet ;)

[Maxw]

Falcons and Commodores, legally, which of course means safely as well, can tow approx 2.5T set up correctly. Here in Vic that is, dont know other states laws.

why should national towing regulations or vehicle manufacturers figures for that metter be any different in victoria? so how come a falcon or commodore can tow 2.5t in victoria how ever it is setup? M

[phewy]

Because #they used to have different laws for towing weights in different states. Whether they still do I don't know. In some states for instance, you couldn't tow anything that was 1.5 times the weight of the car, or something like it, dont quote me on it becuase I'm not sure of the figure. A few years back there were cases of vehicles with vans being pulled over in other states and told to leave there van on the side of the road as it was over the weight limit, but was perfectly legal when it left its home state. Crazy, but true.

[phewy]

And Basserman, also forgot to mention that if you decide on an AU Falcon, it could have a Ford brand "mini" hitch receiver on it. You may look at it and think its a heavy duty bar because it has a square shank coming out the rear. But it is a much smaller shank (dont know the size) than the 50mm x 50mm shanks of the regular Heavy Duty Bars/Hitch Receivers. If it has one then ditch it for the 2300kg reese bar.

[Needmorerum]

To break all this up, is what you guys are saying is that we have gone over to a National Towing Law (yes excuse my ignorance, I've had 4WD's for that long now that I haven't worried about checking up on any of this), and that you can legally tow something with a Falcon or Commodore that weighs over 2 Tonne (or there abouts, I'm not interested in the bickering).
The last time I heard anything about this was that the tow vehicle had to be 1.5 times the weight of whatever was being towed. I guess, this is what I believe should be law still.
And what happened to the regulations in the southern states in reference to speed while towing, wasn't any vehicle towing restricted to 80kph, is this still the go, or has this gone as well?
Interested in replies here, hasn't this caused some 'creative converstation'.


Corry

[phewy]

See, you dont understand Max. I stated I dont know the laws, not I know this and I know that. Have a good read Max and try and absorb it. Where have I been? Not towing 2.5t thats for sure, so therefore not up with the national regulations on towing that size. All I knew was that I was always legal. Hey, all I said after all was "I know its ok for Vic, but not sure about the other states". Understand the not sure bit max. Yes Nitpick. Why could you have not just said "Hey guys, the law has now changed, its now........."

[melbdan]

Hi im from melb and was going to bye a commodore to tow my boat wich is about 1800kgs unloaded till i rang some towbar dealers to find out about a heavy duty hayman reece towbar, all the dealers i spoke to said a commodore is only good for 1590 kgs so if u tow more and something happens you can be in some deep shit.Now they said a falcon can tow 2100 kgs from memory so it might pay to ring vic roads (depending what state your in)before towing anything with out knowing 100% or check the cars manual and it should tell u.I got a patrol ute in the end so just something to think about fellas.

Cheers Dan.

[Maxw]

dan sounds like you should check with the vehicle manufacturer of your particular model as those dealers have no idea what they are on about but then all commodores are not the same either but then you have not mentioned what model commodore your have either. all the info makes life just that much easier. M

[nofrills]

corry
sorry you didnt get the civil answer you asked for ,so ill sort it out for ya ;).

firstly.if ya hook something really big up to the cruiser and the back doors fly open when you dump the clutch,its prolly too heavy.
secondly.if you are towing something and you get passed buy anything with victorian plates ,its prolly too heavy.
forthly.never try and tow anything made buy mc grath/allison/or kenworth,they put some stupid coupling on them and i cant find an adapter >:(.

ps,for some added fun when towing,put the kiddies in the back one night and let the saftey chains drag down the highway,fair dinkum they wont of had so much fun since last years cracker night.

cheers
scott

[melbdan]

Max if your keen to put 2500kgs behind a 1300-1400 tin can commodore go for it i hope u never cop a blow out the thing i dont under stand is a gq patrol that weighs 2100 kgs is rated to 2800kgs with a full cassis .

[billfisher]

No need for a duel axle on that sized boat. With an extra axle you are added quite a bit of extra weight (its like a set of dumbels), not to mention the extra maintainence and being harder to manouver in reverse.

[Brejen]

Basserman
Tow my Haines 17L fully loaded from the Gold Coast Hinterland down to the ramps thru all the mountains and am using a VN Commadore auto. Use the same car when towing it up to the Sunshine Coast as well. Has no problems with the weight and tows like a dream, -trailer set up is right thou. Like some others have had some slip on the ramps at low but usually some one on the draw bar and out she comes, or sometime only have to put it in 1st and crawl it out, don't let the wheels start to spin. Long as the tow bar is rated for it they'll pull anthing.
Brett

[billfisher]

Kiktz,

Its not just swaying thats a worry but braking as well. I hope you have full hydraulic breaks rather than the mechanical overide type.

[Kiktz]

Billfisher, no hydraulic brakes just the old and dont know the name of'em
where the weight/ force of the boat pushes the the brakes.

And I have got to say the touch wood they have not done me wrong yet.
Coming home from a great day of on the bay along the gateway, I am glad that I like to leave as much room as possible between me and the car infront with out really hindering the traffic flow. A little asian fellow pulled out from a standing start infront of the guy that was infront of me. The guy infront locked up his brakes and only the man upstairs knows how we managed not to hit this guy that pulled out but needless to say the car that was travelling in front of me nearly cleaned up a car in the right lane and our lil mate pulled back into the shoulder and then straight back out infront of me. And let me tell you it was close but still I pulled the old girl up from 80kph to 40 in a very short amount of distance. Seeing that luck was on my side that day i could not beleive it when this guy took the same exit as I and pulled up to the red light right next to me........... I sure as I sit here today I asked him if could not see the boat that I was towing and well informed him that his actions had not only endangered his life but mine and many others, I only hope that it was a lesson well learnt.

It is surly one thing that I never ever want to expericence again, so much so that if presented with an option of waht time I can tow I do it when there is the least amount of traffic on the roads.....

[Baycruiser]

tow a cruiscraft 575 (~1,800kg loaded) with VT II V6 commodroe wagon.....no prob's. Holden installed and rated 2,100kg bar + air shocks (holden) + auto trans cooler. Definitely about the max you would want to pull with commodore/falcon. Trailer is tandem axle & mech brakes on front axle only. Elec/hydraulic brakes would obviously be better, but to date have been happy with performance of current set up. Also had the misfortune of having to brake 'HARD' when some idiot decide to come onto the freeway via entry lane then stop in the middle of the freeway!! I thought I was going to wear the boat over the top of the wagon but was surprised how well the commodore and mech trailer brakes pulled the whole lot up......scary though, don't need that experience again!!

[Needmorerum]

Hey Scotty, good to see the humour coming out in this post, God knows it needs it. I was taking the Cruise Craft up to Yeppoon the other week and got passed by US Marine Chevy Truck towing about a 24 foot Zodiac and it had US Number Plates on it, so I'm not sure where I stand here. I might have to trade the boat in on a smaller version, then again, could just pull the floor up and remove all the stringers to loose some weight.
At least you have shed more light on what I can and can't tow than the rest of the post has.

Thanking you for your regulationary input,

Corry

[imported_admin]

Hi

You may have noticed that several posts have been removed from this thread.

This is due to the fact that I have banned a Member and removed their posts. This effected the flow of other posts so I have removed everything after the posts from the now banned member.

Please feel free to put this thread back on track.

[phewy]

Any other questions you are free to ask basserman. Will try and help.

[DaveSue_Fishos_Two]

Hi Basserman, a mate of mine had, for many years, a 21 ft Hartley with twin 65's. I'm not sure how much it all weighed but god knows it was very, very heavy. He pulled it without too much trouble behind a six cylinder XC Falcon. Sometimes at low tide it would be a bit dicky getting in up the ramp but if it was pulled up diagonally there were no probs.

Cheers
Dave

[jimbo59]

::)

[hercules]

I have had a bit of experience (dare i say a bit ) with towing over the years . Watched my brother do a 180 down cunninghams gap towing a tandam trailer full of paving tools. the trailer had hydraulic brakes but obviously they weren't working properly at the time. He was driving an f100 but being a ute with not enough weight in the back ,the trailer caused him tojack knife , even though he wasn't braking aggresively.
How he didn't go over the edge remains a mystery :o
In 97 i bought an f150 and was told by the transport department that in qld you could tow what ever the manufacturer stated which was 2.8t . I used to tow 2.5t ,that being a small bobcat,the trailer had 4 wheel electric brakes with a breakaway. It worked fine but was challenging getting it to stop without one or more wheels locking up.
Anyway have a bigger bobcat now with trailer rated to 4t and am onto my third chev which has a tow rating of 4.5t.
My advice is i like to drive something that is heavier than what i am towing. Most cars are capable of towing heavier but when something goes wrong as i have had in the past i know what handles these situations better.
Sorry for being long winded but try and put high load rated tyres on your tow vehicles and trailers as these have saved me heaps of hassles in times past + you can pump them up to 65psi.
The chev in the photo weighs 4t

cheers Craig
ps if i'm up your way Corry i'll gladly pass you ;D

[billfisher]

With heavy rig towed by a sedan and with mechanical overide brakes I would be worried about breaking in the wet, especially downhill. I have seen rigs in this situation jacknifed and the boat sitting on the bitumen, just because the traffic lights changed at the bottom of the hill. The boats weren't all that big either, about 18 ft fiberglass. The problem is that once the car starts to skid the weight of the boat takes over and the override breaks are innefective.