27 meg verses VHF

[Brejen]

I'm sure there have been plenty of discussion on the topic B4 but needed to get some expert advice from those in the know. We have been looking at a new VHF with DSC from the States, but this is not the topic.

Heard that the 27 meg will only be good for ship to ship in the near future. And that the VMR's and Coast Guards will be monitoring the VHF's. So the other day while at the ramp at Mooloolabah we asked the boyz at the Coast Guard.

The bloke we spoke to said that there wasn't much difference between the two.WE were very surprised, I always thought that the VHF was a much more powerful radio. They told us that on some days (Boaties being on the N/ Banks), they can only just get the VHF but not get the 27meg, whereas on other days they can get the 27meg but not the VHF.

We are all heading further and further afield chasing these scaley critters. I know that I want the best equipment i can put in my boat but can not afford to buy things that i don't need straight away or even have but a different type. I guess what i'm saying is;
Is it worth the money for the VHF units now or wait till we have to buy them due to them not being reconized. Nearly all of Dad's and my fishing is offshore and at around the 30km at least so really want the best protection. Help me out please, Are they the same or is the VHF a better option.
Brett

[Mr__Bean]

G'Day Brett,

Interesting topic, I have just spent the last 5 Monday nights doing the marine radio course and learnt quite a bit, happy to pass some on but don't consider myself an expert by any means.

Firstly, be careful bringing in a US radio particularly one with DSC.

Marine radios don't require a station licence, they are cover by a "Class Licence" that exempts the individual units having to be licenced. The class licence lists all of the radios covered by model number etc including the serial number ranges for equipment meeting the Australian requirements.

Whilst risk of detection that you have a radio that is not Aussue approved would normally be very minimal, DSC radios transmit a unique 9 digit code that identifies the vessel, the code that the radio transmits is prefixed with 00503 for Australian radios, US radios have a different code.

So each time you use your DSC function you are beaming out that you have a US radio fitted. Something to consider.

On the benefits of 27meg versus VHF, this is what I have learnt:

I think both have their benefits and their disadvantages.

27Mhz advantages:
- simple to use, no user licence requirement
- 27Mhz signal has ability to "skip" off the ionosphere under certain (sunny) conditions giving it ability to temporarily communicate over terrain and potentially over great distance (Melbourne to Cairns, Perth, SE Qld etc.)
- signal can (at times) be refracted by rain, cloud, etc giving the ability to communicate around terrain (islands etc).

27Mhz disadvantages:
- no licence requirement leads to abuse of radio protocols and clogging of emergency channels, also has a significant yahoo element at times.
- maximum 4 watts transmission power can leave you short if operating in isolated waters
- Seems more easily affected by sounder or engine interference


VHF (156Mhz) advantages
- 25 watt transmission power gives greater (line of site) operating range (6 times the power of 27Mhz).
- user licence requirement almost eliminates the yahoo element
- user licence requirement provides greater knowledge in proper emergency procedures (message relay etc)
- Seems less affected by electrical interference from sounder, engine etc.
- Can have DSC function activated to electronically transmit GPS position etc in emergency
- Provides the ability to contact commercial vessels if necessary


VHF (156Mhz) disadvantages
- Relies on line of site contact between the transmitting station and the receiving station, cannot go around corners or over terrain without assistance of repeater stations.
- No ability to transmit/receive over great distance (skipped signals)


In summary, it depends what YOU want out of your radio, and will it be there when you need it.

If most of your fishing is in an area that has good 27Mhz support and most of your fishing mates have 27Mhz, then this is probably the radio of choice.

If however, your use will have you a long distance from the receiving station in deep offshore or isolated waters, then I would go with the VHF.

If you want the best of both, then you have to bite the bullet and go with both (as I did).

Hope this helps,

- Darren

[Brejen]

Thanks Darren, Helps heap.
Always thought that i'd have to get one and was always going to keep the 27 meg. My main reason, was the change over to VHF for the rescue groups. Thanks also for the heads up with the DSC,do you know if we can look at these model numbers etc. These units are a Uniden Oceanus model and state that they are international standard, not that mean Jack all, but will definately look into it more. Are the models that don't have DSC more a better option in your opion. THanks again Darren appreciate your time for your advice.
Brett

[Mr__Bean]

G'Day Brett,

As said I am no expert, just did the theory bit.

You may find some of your info in here, it is the Marine Radio Operators Handbook and is what the user certificate is based on. Chapter 5 deals with DSC and section 71 in particular to the ID codes etc:

http://www.bbyc.com.au/images/pdf/mrchsv.pdf

Not sure on the price difference, but if buying again I would buy a unit with DSC without doubt.

- Darren

[Steven78]

I would go VHF over 27mhz after just doing a radio course
One thing to remember Aircraft can monitor ch 6 as well most large ships only monitor VHF 16,67,12,13 and these are the people that most likely would help or would be able to MAYDAY RELAY your distress call.

Here is a copy of Maritime Communications hand book which Mr_Bean also posted
http://www.amcom.amc.edu.au/handbook/index.html

[Brejen]

Thanks guys will look at those sites tonight. Have the kids home today for ekka holiday.

Darren the one that i'm looking at is a Uniden Oceanus with DSC 2005 model for $165 Au + postage. Or the new Lowrance LVR-850 also with DSC for $ 125 Au +postage. THese guys also have the units without DSC so can also go that way.

Steven78 thanks mate. I think going to VHF for most of us will be inevitable from what the boyz at the Coast Guard were saying, only a matter of time is all.....

Brett

[whiteman]

In simple terms, 27MHz sucks when it comes to perfomance. Lots of static and they cut out when behind islands and besides, bugger all people outside of Sydney use them, particularly as you start getting into NQ territory.

If the radio is primarily for safety, VHF is the only option.

[Bowser]

Brejen for my 2 bobs worth I think a radio is only any good in an emergency if someone hears your call. The most powerful radio available is no good if there are only a few other boats in the area listening in. I believe you will find more boats have 27 meg then VHF so more chance of being heard, I definately wouldn't ditch the 27 meg yet. I have also looked at the DSC but have been advised by the local marine electronics specialists that it has limited use in Oz at the moment so I have put of adding the VHF on the back burner for a while.

[essky]

I also have just completed a MROCP course and would add the following.

I would go VHF for some of following reasons.

Commercial shipping monitors ch 16 but does not monitor 27mg.

Better quality signal with less noise and from my experiences goes further then vhf. I have never had a problem with talking to shore from Barwon Banks.

You also have repeaters stations on VHF so you can reach further up or down the coast.

DSC will also travell further in much the same way that you can sms from your mobile when you can not talk. It can go further and will keep resending, so if you are on the edge of range, it may still get through. I think you will find that most VMR's watch DSC on VHF.

27 meg can go further if you get a skip, but this is unreliable and not to be counted on.

One thing that was stressed to us was the height of your areial. The higher the better. This is a downfall with the portable units.

On a final note, I keep both my radios on, cause I think both is best, but the VHF is by far the busiest when offshore.

This is my first post, so hope I typed everthing right and some of this is useful.

[VP1]

Gidday Bowser, their are approximately 10,000 rec boaters on the waters of Moreton Bay on the weekend on a fine day, when the weather is bad for the rec boater their is possibly no one. (If they have any sense). During these times commercial vessels will still be out and about as long as the weather has not reached a level where it is no longer safe for them to opperate either. (Perhaps maybe 1 or 2 times a year). All these commercial vessels from the Tangalooma Flyer, Water Taxis, Water Police, Harbourmaster, Toondah Ferrys, City Cats, the list go's on and on, monitor VHF Ch 16 most hours of the day and night, as they are required too by law as Mariners. I would be very surprised if any, have 27meg radio onboard, I have certainly never seen them and I have been on a few commercial vessels. (also 27meg is ONLY an Australian thing).
As for DSC, couldnt agree more that it is not widely used, or understood, even by Rescue Groups. With time DSC will become more widely used. I guess if the "Local marine electronic specialists" are reccomending that you dont purchase a set with DSC in it jus because it is not widely used around here, then they are doing you, and others a disservice as later you will have to replace and upgrade yet again.
Brejen, if you currently have a 27meg radio, certainly keep it, they are great radios just the same. 27meg radio are not being "Phased out" as such to my knowledge. Certainly as the VHF become more popular the price comes down and people opt for the VHF with the greater features and "Modulation". (Clarity). This makes for lerss demand on the 27meg hence eventually they ma discontinue making them. (Possibly what they may have been refering to was the EPIRBS being phased out in 2009, they transmit on 121.5/243 and internationaly they are being phased out in prefrfernce to the better digital 406 epirbs).
My recomendation, VHF, followed by the 27meg. (MF/HF the best obviously)
Got to go, got an urgent job
Hope the info helps

[Brejen]

Whiteman Thanks for your reply. Fish mainly off the Gold Coast or the Sunny Coast and have never really had a problem with the 27 meg with static etc but know what you mean about line of sight.

Bowser : Mate will never ditch the 27meg. As the boys at the Coast Guard had said great for ship to ship/ boat to boat. would always run the two and agree totally that more would have the 27meg than the VHF. Mate was thinking the same lines as you re Back burner, however the prices that i've seen for some of these latest units with DSC are cheaper than the 27megs we get from here, this got me thinking of getting one again.

Essky: mate first of all welcome to the site and what a first posting. Thanks for the reply mate, everyhthing you said is neary the exact same as the boys from the C/Guard. And the big thing is the arial height, higher is better.

Grumpy old Fart : Thanks for your reply. Mate just on the phasing out bit. I'm only going by what the bloke at the C/Guard had said to us the other day. He had said that they were going to only moniter VHF for rescue in the future, and that 27meg will only be good for ship to ship. I'm not sure how true it is. Might ring the local VMR and C/Guard tommorrow and see what they say about it. Have to agree with you about the DSC quite sure these will become more widely used by all in the near future. For safety aspects the VHF is the way to go.........
Brett

[flano]

Brejen,

Agree with the above comments about VHF being the way to go for the future.

I've just recently purchased an Icom IC-422 VHF radio from the US and they are fine for use in Aus just change them to International freq.

The Icom allowed me to set the full 9 digits of the MMSI number that I got from the AMSA. Mr Bean is correct that the Aus MMSI numbers supplied by AMSA are prefixed by 00503, but this was not hard coded in the Icom unit (and I suspect Uniden would be the same). So it should not be a problem to purchase from overseas, just make sure you do your homework on the charges and exchange rates.

Regards Mike

[crazymorton]

hi mate,
i also did the VHF course at Raby Bay VMR..................i won't recommend anything either way except to say go do this course at your local VMR and make your own mind up.............apart from anything else it's a fascinating course with lots of info that you wouldn't have thought of....and i maintain both sets in my boat........
do the course...........you'll learn heaps

crazy

[Brejen]

Thanks guys, and will take all the advice and definately be doing the course in the near future.
Thanks again to all who passed on their replys.........
Brett

[familyman]

Just investigated all the frequencies on the net from authorities both here and in the us (coast guard) and have found all the freqs to be the same but with different purposes.I now have a vested interest in this topic as just bid on uniden dsc capable vhf on ebay .....oops
cheers jon